Identified! FL - Big Cypress Natl Preserve, Male Hiker, Denim & “Mostly Harmless” July 2018 - Vance Rodriguez#4

[GatorFL]

Does that possibly imply he was having trouble getting to the pond so put his tent about as close as possible?

I think he chose a shaded spot near water. Logical. In addition to shade trees offer a windbreak. Sleeping outside in a little tent can be very loud. There is a lot of noise outside and wind is a big factor.

 

[GatorFL]

Earlier you mentioned taking a different weapon when hiking in Florida due to the wildlife there. You referred to them as game animals. Are you allowed to hunt panthers? Or alligators and bears? I know wild boar are a problem down there and there is and open season on them if I'm not mistaken.

I am always armed when I hike, it is my personal choice and I have a license to carry concealed. I carry a small 5 shot .38, usually in my pack or next to me while sleeping.

In FL you can open carry while hiking. If I am entering an area with larger game, like bears and panthers, I want to be openly armed in case I am attacked. I would have no use hunting these animals, so calling them game isn't the best word. Maybe dangerous animals is a better description. I only open carry for protection. A guy got attacked by an alligator in Corbett Wildlife Area last November, for instance. He suffered a massive injury and fortunately help was nearby so he survived.

Some places are simply scarier than others. I needed a better holster because my pack takes away the logical spots to carry: along your belt line or under your arm in a shoulder harness. A lot of hikers use a chest pack to carry. But they are very hot. I ordered a drop leg holster, it drops down from your belt and wraps around the thigh. Hiking can be expensive I have a lot of gear and I don't often use all or even most of it.

Wild boar are a nuisance animal. They're everywhere. They're dumb but not very dangerous. Earlier this year I was hiking in a large group, 26 people I recall, and a wild boar ran out of the bush right in front of me. No attack or anything. I've seen these frequently on the trail, even a large pack is not very scary. The rangers have traps set for them all over.

 

[GatorFL]

I was reading about the IRA prisoners who formed a hunger strike in 1981 regarding their request to be treated as political prisoners rather than common criminals. The most famous was Bobby Sands, who during his incarceration was elected to Parliament. He and several others started a hunger strike to protest their treatment.

On March 5, 1981 Sands started a hunger strike where he refused all food, taking only water and licking small amounts of salt. He took no food from that date. His hunger strike lasted 66 days. Several days before he died he stopped taking water and lapsed into a coma. His weight dropped from 155 to 95 pounds. He died on May 5, 1981.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ira-militant-bobby-sands-dies

It's interesting to note that Sands took no food for 66 days and only died several days after not taking water. I doubt it was a refusal of water, more like he was drifting in and out of consciousness and quickly succumbed to extreme dehydration. I have not read of a post mortem of his body but it would be interesting to know the similarities between MH and Sands.

Making comparisons between the two can only provide us a timeline and even that can't be relied upon, because we have to assume (which I hate doing) that MH was eating at least sometime between his last sighting and his date of discovery. Which probably changes a lot.

I've been on websites related to end of life care and the aspects of dying coupled with starvation. Almost all, without fail, mention the inability to void the bowel, resulting in impacted bowels. However, there is mention that ingesting fluids can ameliorate the situation and can extend life whereas dehydration and death come pretty quick without fluids.

I think at some point we have to stop considering that starvation is something we can actually relate to, in terms of our responses. I don't think we can. Because at some point in time, desire and application are not compatible. The subject is too far gone. Applying the logic of someone who has never experienced extreme hunger, let alone starvation, is an exercise in futility. Nothing works properly: your body, your brain, your responses. At some point in time you are being guided by the inexorable trajectory of a corporeal being towards death.

Great post. I lived in the UK in 1981 and remember Bobby Sands. I was young then, but old enough to know that something extraordinary was happening.

One of the reasons the MH case is so compelling is because he walked so far and then seemed to just wither away. Why that happened will always be a mystery. We also won't know the actual mechanics of death since there are a few plausible reasons why he could have died and the ME left the cause undetermined.

 

[GatorFL]

We don't know anything about that. There is no evidence he was regularly going to the pond to get water and purifying it.

I think the full bladder is substantial evidence that he was drinking. He would not have had any urine in his bladder if he wasn't because in July heat he would have sweated it all out. We also know that he had a filter. He was filtering or he would have had giardiasis so there would have been no feces, or urine in his body. It is logical to deduce he was staying hydrated.

 

[branmuffin]

Though it's a logical deduction that he must have been, or he would have died of dehydration before starvation.

What about rain water? He was there during the rainy season. He could have got enough to hydrate himself enough to survive. I'm talking about 20 to 25 ounces a day.

Survival Hydration: Minimum Water Requirements

 

[branmuffin]

I think the full bladder is substantial evidence that he was drinking. He would not have had any urine in his bladder if he wasn't because in July heat he would have sweated it all out. We also know that he had a filter. He was filtering or he would have had giardiasis so there would have been no feces, or urine in his body. It is logical to deduce he was staying hydrated.

A full bladder is also and indication that the body is slowing down normal functions to conserve fluids, hence the dark colour of his concentrated urine.

 

[GatorFL]

Some say he was only 5 miles from a rest stop and not far north was so and so. He had a homemade map. Did he know that? Did he still have a map?

I wish the CCSO would release a complete list of his possessions.

I thought he had a map printed out by one of the shops along the trail. Even a basic map would show, at a minimum, Big Cypress and its relation to the highway. A good map would have the camp and its relation to the highway.

 

[GatorFL]

What about rain water? He was there during the rainy season. He could have got enough to hydrate himself enough to survive. I'm talking about 20 to 25 ounces a day.

Survival Hydration: Minimum Water Requirements

No way. Stick a camp pot out in the rain. Even all his stuff together that could have collected rain: the Nalgene bottle, bowl, etc, he was not not getting 20 ounces, no way. Even if it is raining inches.

 

[GatorFL]

A full bladder is also and indication that the body is slowing down normal functions to conserve fluids, hence the dark colour of his concentrated urine.

Urine also changes color after death.

 

[branmuffin]

No way. Stick a camp pot out in the rain. Even all his stuff together that could have collected rain: the Nalgene bottle, bowl, etc, he was not not getting 20 ounces, no way. Even if it is raining inches.

I think you're right.

 

[Bellaplutt]

I wish the CCSO would release a complete list of his possessions.

I thought he had a map printed out by one of the shops along the trail. Even a basic map would show, at a minimum, Big Cypress and its relation to the highway. A good map would have the camp and its relation to the highway.

I think he only had an actual map of Florida where he had drawn out the trail with a pen himself, so that might explain that he didn’t know about the rest stop!

But I keep coming back to the fact that he didn’t write a help-note on his tent when he got in trouble, he must have realised things weren’t going in the right direction?

 

[Melt71]

Othram will sequence Mostly Harmless’ DNA then a genealogist will use the sequence to build out a family tree using a public database. The process is expected to take at least several weeks but could lead investigators to a family member of Mostly Harmless, Hurm said.

Deceased hiker Mostly Harmless still unidentified: Unsolved mystery nameless man found Big Cypress National Preserve

@othram I don’t know how I missed this - awesome! What is your policy on providing case updates, and where will they be published? I know different groups have different policies on how much/often they update us common folk

 

[gfinale]

It's pretty hard to fold a wallet with 25 20 dollar bills, especially if you have other things in your wallet, like ID, credit cards, various receipts, etc.

We know he had between 3 and 4 thousand dollars but do we know what the denominations were?

One of the things that bothers me about the tent transaction was how MH was unconcerned about showing how much money he had in his wallet, even after taking out bills to pay for his purchase. And how much the seller noticed how much money had. Most people are a little more circumspect about stuff like that. Especially in an environment where you have no idea who you are traveling with and who was around when he made the purchase.

I would actually lean toward the side of thinking MH may have been somewhat naive and sheltered in life. Most I've worked with in IT are like that. It's like they've never used a tool or done much for themselves. They're also usually intellectually smart but not practical smart and lack the practical experience and knowledge. Although I can't say for sure, I think this description very much fits our unusual hiker.

I corrected myself somewhere here that it was actually Matt Mason at Mountain Crossing, not Bob the tent guy as I said who commented on the huge amount of money in his wallet, sorry.

 

[gfinale]

We don't know anything about that. There is no evidence he was regularly going to the pond to get water and purifying it.

He wouldn't have lived without drinking fluids so we know he got them often enough to stay alive. If he did stay from shortly after Apr 3, 2018 until the end at Nobles Camp then he had to be getting water from the pond regularly. While setting his tent up seemingly as close to the pond as possible could be coincidence, it would be a pretty big one! I guess there is the question of whether maybe he didn't stay there the entire time though. We don't know whether he purified water he drank properly. I've posted before that maybe something made him very sick and caused him to not want to eat. One of those things could be Giardia which was ruled out somehow but maybe there are other water sicknesses that would do that.

 

[gfinale]

I think he only had an actual map of Florida where he had drawn out the trail with a pen himself, so that might explain that he didn’t know about the rest stop!

But I keep coming back to the fact that he didn’t write a help-note on his tent when he got in trouble, he must have realised things weren’t going in the right direction?

Yes, I have read that in several places. He had a regular map of Florida and had drawn the trail on it. If I remember correctly, a hiker or trail angel was concerned and went to lengths to help him on that at some point. I'll have to dig that up to confirm. It's quite possible he didn't know there was a rest stop 5 mi away or where unless someone can say different. It's possible he even lost or damaged his map somehow too. Did LE say he was found with map(s). Why do we only get some picks and a partial list of stuff?! If we could look at his map, it could help!

I caught a very bad flu many years ago where it hit me fast and hard such that I grabbed the closest thing to me and lied on the livingroom carpet for days delirious. Should I have had help, yes. Did I realize I needed help, no. Especially when we haven't had bad sicknesses, I think there's often the belief that it will pass and get better.

 

[gfinale]

Though it's a logical deduction that he must have been, or he would have died of dehydration before starvation.

...if he did stay at Nobles Camp for a length of time which is quite likely. At the least, his tent was there on July 3, 2018 and found July 23, 2018 so most definitely stayed there between, especially in his condition. Let's keep in mind that people saw him in many places from New York to Christmas, FL but nobody saw him from Apr 3, 2018 to July 23, 2018. That's a long time for him to be hiking around and nobody to see him! It implies he was at Nobles Camp, sick and in his tent mostly, most harmlessly, something like that.

 

[ilovepierre]

Let me ask, why would he drink if he wanted to die? If you say because water was close then I'll say, ya, but food was close too. He drank enough and he ate but didn't eat enough. Miscalculation? Uncomfortable to eat?

If he had any underlying health condition (not everything shows up on an autopsy report since some things have to be specifically tested for), lack of appetite can be a symptom of a lot of things.

When I was super sick back in Feb-Apr of this year with what I now believe was COVID-19, I didn’t eat a lot at first. I was still getting sufficient fluids, but I had to force myself to eat even though I wasn’t hungry/had no appetite. I knew I had to get some food in me though.

MH might not have had a) the energy to feed himself or b) any food to eat. I can’t remember what (if any) he had on him when he was found.

IMO

 

[gfinale]

If he had any underlying health condition (not everything shows up on an autopsy report since some things have to be specifically tested for), lack of appetite can be a symptom of a lot of things.

When I was super sick back in Feb-Apr of this year with what I now believe was COVID-19, I didn’t eat a lot at first. I was still getting sufficient fluids, but I had to force myself to eat even though I wasn’t hungry/had no appetite. I knew I had to get some food in me though.

MH might not have had a) the energy to feed himself or b) any food to eat. I can’t remember what (if any) he had on him when he was found.

IMO

Exactly. He was found with food.

 

[othram]

@othram I don’t know how I missed this - awesome! What is your policy on providing case updates, and where will they be published? I know different groups have different policies on how much/often they update us common folk

Thanks for the support and good question on policy! Our policy is to be as interactive as possible but we always clear announcements with law enforcement first, out of respect for their processes and protocols; but also so we never (inadvertently) adversely affect the course of an investigation.

 

[branmuffin]

Exactly. He was found with food.

Where are you getting your information about food? What kind of food?