Identified! FL - Big Cypress Natl Preserve, Male Hiker, Denim & “Mostly Harmless” July 2018 - Vance Rodriguez#4

[MaryFromFla]

Earlier you mentioned taking a different weapon when hiking in Florida due to the wildlife there. You referred to them as game animals. Are you allowed to hunt panthers? Or alligators and bears? I know wild boar are a problem down there and there is and open season on them if I'm not mistaken.

You have to have a current hunting g liscende to take wild boar/pigs. Panthers are an absolute no as they are extremely endangered. I do believe it would be legal if you were being attacked..but nuisance Panthers are extremely rare..Alligators are so many tags per permit which is a lotto system as well as black bear. Turkey and deer are seasonal for bow and rifle hunts.

 

[branmuffin]

I would actually lean toward the side of thinking MH may have been somewhat naive and sheltered in life. Most I've worked with in IT are like that. It's like they've never used a tool or done much for themselves. They're also usually intellectually smart but not practical smart and lack the practical experience and knowledge. Although I can't say for sure, I think this description very much fits our unusual hiker.

I corrected myself somewhere here that it was actually Matt Mason at Mountain Crossing, not Bob the tent guy as I said who commented on the huge amount of money in his wallet, sorry.

While I agree that a lot of computer-geek kind of people seem to be socially inept and introverted I don't see any evidence that MH was like that. If he was in his early twenties and had been immersed in computers during his teens and beyond I could see that being a possibility but he was at least in his mid-30s and just because he was a good coder and wore jeans during the first part of his hike doesn't make him sheltered and unable to use tools, etc. Based on the conversations with other hikers, other than his jeans and backpack size (which based on what @GatorFL said his pack was within range of other hikers), he struck me as a polite, well educated individual who was quietly funny and was described as an experienced hiker. Twenty years ago, he would have fit right in with all the hikers that had no cell phones, GPS, etc. Being old school doesn't make him naive.

 

[GatorFL]

You have to have a current hunting g liscende to take wild boar/pigs. Panthers are an absolute no as they are extremely endangered. I do believe it would be legal if you were being attacked..but nuisance Panthers are extremely rare..Alligators are so many tags per permit which is a lotto system as well as black bear. Turkey and deer are seasonal for bow and rifle hunts.

You don't need a permit of any kind to hunt wild boar in Florida. They are a nuisance animal. I believe the rest of what you have posted is accurate for Florida.

Panthers are a protected species, it would have to be an attack to justify killing one. Alligators do have a season, again an attack would be justification for killing one. I'm actually not very afraid of bears in FL, they are really skittish. Florida deer are also pretty skittish. The taking any kind of animal would be for imminent protection only, in my case. I've never even felt like I had to protect myself but it is nice to have the means to do so.

I've never even seen a panther in the wild. I've seen more deer and alligators while hiking than anything else. Boars sometimes, it is neat when you see a whole pack of them. I saw exactly one bear while hiking on the AT. A few turkeys, these may be my favorite animal to encounter in the wild.

MH was really brave. He went through most of the AT and FT unarmed and apparently unharmed. One of the reasons I am interested in his case is what he actually accomplished. It was a lot! It takes a special person to have the patience, stamina and willpower to do what he did. It really makes his end a lot more puzzling, for me.

 

[branmuffin]

You don't need a permit of any kind to hunt wild boar in Florida. They are a nuisance animal. I believe the rest of what you have posted is accurate for Florida.

Panthers are a protected species, it would have to be an attack to justify killing one. Alligators do have a season, again an attack would be justification for killing one. I'm actually not very afraid of bears in FL, they are really skittish. Florida deer are also pretty skittish. The taking any kind of animal would be for imminent protection only, in my case. I've never even felt like I had to protect myself but it is nice to have the means to do so.

I've never even seen a panther in the wild. I've seen more deer and alligators while hiking than anything else. Boars sometimes, it is neat when you see a whole pack of them. I saw exactly one bear while hiking on the AT. A few turkeys, these may be my favorite animal to encounter in the wild.

MH was really brave. He went through most of the AT and FT unarmed and apparently unharmed. One of the reasons I am interested in his case is what he actually accomplished. It was a lot! It takes a special person to have the patience, stamina and willpower to do what he did. It really makes his end a lot more puzzling, for me.

According to one hunting site I went on wild boar can be hunted on private land with no limit and no permit with owner approval. If being hunted on public land a permit is required along with other restrictions.

Where to Kill Wild Public-Land Pigs All Across the South

 

[gfinale]

Where are you getting your information about food? What kind of food?

Firstly, we know he had been eating and drinking because of his state when found. He wasn't running over to the rest stop every couple of days in the shape he was in so he must have had food he was eating. In fact, he'd eaten recently which I would say implies he wasn't trying to die that day.

Can someone point me to where I can finally read the 20 pages of rules for this forum because I don't know what I can use and what I can't. So, I might as well blow 5 hours reading it instead of working on the case.

What I can maybe get away with is posting some quotes I've read and working on finding more...

"When found, John Doe had with him a yellow two-man Brooks-Range Mountaineering tent; a Foray yellow sleeping bag; two Outdoor Products hiking poles, which were black and copper in colour; one yellow and grey Isobutane 110G fuel cartridge; black Salomon hiking boots; a blue-green Nalgene water bottle; approximately $3,600 in cash; a small amount of food; and a notebook with coding written within it." <-- a small amount of food

"Next, he had food in the tent, stool in his body, and a full bladder. So he had been eating and drinking, but perhaps rationing what was left. With help and resources being so close, I can’t help but wonder if he was somehow immobilized from something that could’ve caused the weight loss, and in turn, inability to go get more food. To go from the April 15 pictures to what I have heard the death pictures look like would mean losing massive amounts of weight very quickly." <-- So he had been eating and drinking, but perhaps rationing what was left

 

[gfinale]

Could his sister, if one exists, not be coming forward because she feels she may be implicated in his demise? For example, she was supposed to meet him near Nobles Camp to give him supplies and never showed up. Just an example so don't bother shooting it down!

There's no explanation of why anyone who knew him but maybe didn't want to be identified, couldn't anonymously send the police about who he was though.

 

[Catmommy]

It dawns on me, as it has others here, that when he visited his sister it was her grave, not a living relative. With no one else to live for or care about and feeling that no one cared about him, he might have chosen to just drift away. I can understand that. What was left for him?

 

[gfinale]

You don't need a permit of any kind to hunt wild boar in Florida. They are a nuisance animal. I believe the rest of what you have posted is accurate for Florida.

Panthers are a protected species, it would have to be an attack to justify killing one. Alligators do have a season, again an attack would be justification for killing one. I'm actually not very afraid of bears in FL, they are really skittish. Florida deer are also pretty skittish. The taking any kind of animal would be for imminent protection only, in my case. I've never even felt like I had to protect myself but it is nice to have the means to do so.

I've never even seen a panther in the wild. I've seen more deer and alligators while hiking than anything else. Boars sometimes, it is neat when you see a whole pack of them. I saw exactly one bear while hiking on the AT. A few turkeys, these may be my favorite animal to encounter in the wild.

MH was really brave. He went through most of the AT and FT unarmed and apparently unharmed. One of the reasons I am interested in his case is what he actually accomplished. It was a lot! It takes a special person to have the patience, stamina and willpower to do what he did. It really makes his end a lot more puzzling, for me.

I wondered about that and now you have confirmed just how much he did. MH was brave or naive as I was discussing

 

[branmuffin]

Firstly, we know he had been eating and drinking because of his state when found. He wasn't running over to the rest stop every couple of days in the shape he was in so he must have had food he was eating. In fact, he'd eaten recently which I would say implies he wasn't trying to die that day.

Can someone point me to where I can finally read the 20 pages of rules for this forum because I don't know what I can use and what I can't. So, I might as well blow 5 hours reading it instead of working on the case.

What I can maybe get away with is posting some quotes I've read and working on finding more...

"When found, John Doe had with him a yellow two-man Brooks-Range Mountaineering tent; a Foray yellow sleeping bag; two Outdoor Products hiking poles, which were black and copper in colour; one yellow and grey Isobutane 110G fuel cartridge; black Salomon hiking boots; a blue-green Nalgene water bottle; approximately $3,600 in cash; a small amount of food; and a notebook with coding written within it." <-- a small amount of food

"Next, he had food in the tent, stool in his body, and a full bladder. So he had been eating and drinking, but perhaps rationing what was left. With help and resources being so close, I can’t help but wonder if he was somehow immobilized from something that could’ve caused the weight loss, and in turn, inability to go get more food. To go from the April 15 pictures to what I have heard the death pictures look like would mean losing massive amounts of weight very quickly." <-- So he had been eating and drinking, but perhaps rationing what was left

I don't remember ever seeing food in the inventory. People may be making assumptions that he had food. And even if there was food in his tent, there is no evidence that he was eating it days before he died. There is a difference of opinion based on the autopsy report regarding stool in his large intestine. "Abundant formed stool" could mean he'd not had a bowel movement for a week, not that he had eaten recently.

I'd be interested to know whether LE went through the garbage he had tied to a tree or whether he had any receipts from places he had shopped at for food. Where those places were and the dates on the receipts.

 

[gfinale]

Was the water from the pond drinkable as is or did it need some kind of treatment, purification? If so, how would MH do that?

 

[gfinale]

I have confirmed, straight from LE that MH used the name Ben Bilemy at several hostels in VA, GA and FL. This was questioned here a few days ago. It appears he didn't use this name once or twice but rather used it throughout. Not to say he couldn't have used a different name somewhere but he wasn't changing names to new ones regularly.

 

[gfinale]

Possible idea. In some places, homeless will turn to camping. MH said he was camping for a few weeks near New York, NY and the AT. It's very expensive to live in or near that city, especially without a good job. Could it be that MH had a transition between working and living in New York then being homeless then going camping instead. Sure, he had almost 4,000 when found which could imply he had maybe 10,000 when he started but how many months of rent is that where he lived in the city (if he did)?! How about insurance, vehicle (leased?), parking, lots of expenses.

 

[GatorFL]

Was the water from the pond drinkable as is or did it need some kind of treatment, purification? If so, how would MH do that?

Yes, the pond at Nobles is advertised as suitable for drinking, just watch out for the alligator! Hikers pretty much filter all the water they drink obtained in the wild and we know he had a filter.

 

[gfinale]

Yes, the pond at Nobles is advertised as suitable for drinking, just watch out for the alligator! Hikers pretty much filter all the water they drink obtained in the wild and we know he had a filter.

OK, so he didn't need to make a fire to boil the water or anything. I guess he would not have had to make a fire for anything then, right? That would explain why LE said it appeared he'd been living in the park but the two hikers who found him, Nichalaus Horton and Logan Buehler, said they didn't think he'd been there long because there was no campfire area or anything.

 

[gfinale]

Note that the autopsy lists the cause of death as unidentified, not starvation.

I believe Hurn from LE said this...
"I don’t believe there was anything from a medical standpoint that could have caused him to weigh what he did,” Hurm said. “He did not have any terminal diseases or wasting diseases we are aware of that would have been responsible for that.”
" It appears Mostly Harmless died of intentional or unintentional lack of nutrition, which is odd because it seemed the hiker had the resources to obtain food and keep himself from starving to death"

By resources, if he means money, that doesn't mean he was capable of hiking to where he could get food or that he even knew where to go to get it. He had a regular Florida one page map and had marked the trail on it. That's pretty ill-equipped.

A couple of hikers saw his tent but not him on July 3, 2018. A couple of hikers found him July 23, 2018, he'd been dead since July 20 or 21. The question is whether there were any hikers between those two dates at Nobles Camp to have seen him or his tent. If he realized he definitely needed help after July 3, could not get himself to civilization on his own after July 3 and there wasn't anybody between those dates then this could be why he died and he was not necessarily starving himself to death.

 

[youcancallmeal]

I just found this case a week ago and have read up on it since.
If you look at his pictures you can see the changes in him. He goes from healthy and well nourished looking to sallow and much thinner. Also if he had an eating disorder I dont think he would have looked so healthy in earlier pictures.
I think he was ill and knew he was dying or got the diagnosis and did not want treatment. Did he not tell a xamper he had been ill and wanted to fo the trail while he still could?
LE says he had no known disease "to their knowledge." That does not mean he did not have a disease that ME couldnt find due to the condition of his body (something other than cancer). What about MS?ALS? I do not think the autopsy was overly thorough.
He had leg supports or knee supports. I think if he wanted to die of starvation he wouldnt do it so slowly and painfully. The knowledge of a life altering disease fits this scenario and why he did not try to get help....because he knew his prognosis.

As for the sister, did I read or hear on a podcast one of the fellow hikers said he told them his sister nursed him back to health? That would mean she was still alive and maybe he had an episode but came back from it.

I worked in healthcare as a cardiac tech for years so this is where my line of thinking comes from.

 

[GatorFL]

OK, so he didn't need to make a fire to boil the water or anything. I guess he would not have had to make a fire for anything then, right? That would explain why LE said it appeared he'd been living in the park but the two hikers who found him, Nichalaus Horton and Logan Buehler, said they didn't think he'd been there long because there was no campfire area or anything.

Obsidian also said he could not make a fire.

 

[GatorFL]

Note that the autopsy lists the cause of death as unidentified, not starvation.

I believe Hurn from LE said this...
"I don’t believe there was anything from a medical standpoint that could have caused him to weigh what he did,” Hurm said. “He did not have any terminal diseases or wasting diseases we are aware of that would have been responsible for that.”
" It appears Mostly Harmless died of intentional or unintentional lack of nutrition, which is odd because it seemed the hiker had the resources to obtain food and keep himself from starving to death"

By resources, if he means money, that doesn't mean he was capable of hiking to where he could get food or that he even knew where to go to get it. He had a regular Florida one page map and had marked the trail on it. That's pretty ill-equipped.

A couple of hikers saw his tent but not him on July 3, 2018. A couple of hikers found him July 23, 2018, he'd been dead since July 20 or 21. The question is whether there were any hikers between those two dates at Nobles Camp to have seen him or his tent. If he realized he definitely needed help after July 3, could not get himself to civilization on his own after July 3 and there wasn't anybody between those dates then this could be why he died and he was not necessarily starving himself to death.

The detective and Dr Cyril Wecht both said he died of starvation. (Note, @Narkj showed the autopsy to Dr Wecht and reported his thoughts here on Websleuths IIRC). Nobody is sure why the ME listed the cause of death as undetermined.

Regarding the bolded, MH only having a one page map I think is speculation. We know he had pages and pages of maps printed out earlier on the trail. He seemed to have been well equipped otherwise.

 

[GatorFL]

I just found this case a week ago and have read up on it since.
If you look at his pictures you can see the changes in him. He goes from healthy and well nourished looking to sallow and much thinner. Also if he had an eating disorder I dont think he would have looked so healthy in earlier pictures.
I think he was ill and knew he was dying or got the diagnosis and did not want treatment. Did he not tell a xamper he had been ill and wanted to fo the trail while he still could?
LE says he had no known disease "to their knowledge." That does not mean he did not have a disease that ME couldnt find due to the condition of his body (something other than cancer). What about MS?ALS? I do not think the autopsy was overly thorough.
He had leg supports or knee supports. I think if he wanted to die of starvation he wouldnt do it so slowly and painfully. The knowledge of a life altering disease fits this scenario and why he did not try to get help....because he knew his prognosis.

As for the sister, did I read or hear on a podcast one of the fellow hikers said he told them his sister nursed him back to health? That would mean she was still alive and maybe he had an episode but came back from it.

I worked in healthcare as a cardiac tech for years so this is where my line of thinking comes from.

I'm in healthcare too.

I can also see the changes in the photos. He progressively lost weight. I can't rule out an eating disorder because they can become worse over time. I actually think this is what happened. He had an ED and died. There are other accounts from people he hiked with that this could be a real possibility. His diet was terrible, he was concerned about caloric density constantly, and there is a pic of him eating pizza and he only ate several bites of the crust. A couple of people who had anorexia said all of these things reminded them about their own battle with the disease.

The account from the "while he still could" camper seems out of sorts. The dates don't seem to work and that person came out with their story far later than others. If you scroll back in this thread you will see where we talked a lot about it.

I don't think ALS is even a remote possibility, especially through the AT. We actually have evidence against that. One, the length of time he was was hiking. Two, he was hiking. Three, he used trekking poles. Four, he spoke with a lot of people and nobody said anything about slurred speech. MS would have been spotted on autopsy I think. I agree, the autopsy was not as detailed as it could have been.

Lots of hikers use knee braces. There could be a lot of reasons why he needed them. Carrying a 50+# pack is rough on the knees. His legs but he way looked really scrawny to me. Most hikers have pretty muscular legs and his were not all the way back to the earliest photos of his legs.

I don't recall that statement about the sister, which podcast are you referring to?

 

[gfinale]

Obsidian also said he could not make a fire.

At that time. It doesn't mean he couldn't have bought a lighter or learned after Obsidian.