GUILTY FL - Calyx, 16, & Beau Schenecker, 13, shot to death, Tampa, 27 Jan 2011 #1

[Kateyes]

Hi McDraw-

The person that called CPS was reported to be the counselor that Calyx was seeing. If I come across a link saying that, I will post it. I am pretty confident that that is who the reported caller was. I took note of this because it meant that Calyx was in counseling before the slaps and not as a consequence of them.

I think one of the things that messed up CPS pursuing this case is that the family was all in counseling, the mother was in therapy, the mother & father both said that there was no substance abuse in the house, the father & at least one of the therapists told CPS that they were not concerned for the children's safety.

I can understand why the parents didn't give CPS a more accurate story. 1) They may have believed that the situation was under control given all the therapists/ therapy going on; 2) Professionals treating JPS may have apprised the father of what her status was, what their treatment plan was & led him to believe that the situation was under control & certainly not dangerous for the children; 3) There are obvious personal reasons for not wanting a public agency involved in this family matter- career & community considerations. There is so much that we don't know and will probably never know. I am not sure that anyone necessarily dropped the ball.

Fresia - thanks for the info - I definitely remember hearing the word "teacher" but this could be one aspect of the case that will have many variations as to how it was reported. Either way, it makes me ill that even with the concerned person who reported doing the right thing, somehow things fell between the cracks. And the final result if that two children lost their lives.

 

[mdimaggio]

Regardless of the details of this horrible tragedy, these two lives have been denied a chance to make difference in the world. How ironic, they had no say about coming into the world and the had no say exiting it. As for JPS, IMHO her mental instability coupled with anger and a huge lack of intervention has ended more than the two two lives she gave birth to.

 

[Track292008]

I'm thinking that the "counselor" who reported Calyx's report of her mother hitting her was an academic counselor on the staff of the high school, one who has a certain number of students to advise (i.e., "counsel") re: their choice of classes, arranging schedules and activities, hearing complaints, answering questions, etc. In that capacity, she could have been referred
to as a "teacher" and perhaps was/is a teacher at the school as well.

I say this to distinguish her role from that of a licensed professional counselor or therapist, who has at least one advanced degree in Psychology or a related field and has put in many hours of supervised field work before being licensed to practice family counseling, child psychology, etc. My point is that having a "counselor" doesn't necessarily mean that Calyx was "in therapy" on a continuing basis with someone who could be expected to have insight into her personal situation. The "counselor" could have had no more ongoing awareness of C's home life than a favorite teacher.

In addition, Col. Schenecker did attend the Al-Anon meeting whereas he could have shown his support for the kids by driving them to an Ala-Teen meeting and picking them up afterward if he so desired. Perhaps the Scheneckers had decided to stay together "for the sake of the children" until the kids got older and when Julie just couldn't take it anymore, for whatever reason, this tragedy resulted.

JMO.

 

[mdimaggio]

they should have never been been left alone, regardless. They were part of a community, they had relatives, friends........ why then didn't anyone step in? Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but so much more was going on in this situation.... JMO

 

[Vresia]

I'm thinking that the "counselor" who reported Calyx's report of her mother hitting her was an academic counselor...

This is the link to the summary of the agency investigating slapping. While it doesn't name the reporter, the descriptions make it sound like a therapist apart from a school counselor. Not that that means alot; there are "therapists" doing counseling that don't have adequate/ appropriate training.
http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/schenecker-investigative-summary.pdf

This link to the police report on the investigation says Calyx had been "attending counseling at the Children's Crisis Center off of Bearss Av for approximately 3 weeks." JPS told the police "The child victim has become more verbally abusive to her mother and is in counselling for it."
I believe this was where Calyx reported the slapping.
http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtsp/pdfs/2011/schenecker-abuse-report.pdf
---
This is a link to a new article that is based on an interview with a psychologist that may be looking for his 10 minutes of fame. He says:

"there is the disturbing video of deputies escorting Schenecker to jail on the day they arrested her for the murders.

Merrin explains the shaking by saying, "It is an exaggerated form of anxiety, something of which she has no control."

Merrin says the severe anxiety was likely a contributing factor to the killings."
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=172716&catid=250

 

[crimewriter]

This is tragic for everyone involved, including the mother. People don't "just snap" without showing signs. There had to be warning signs that someone was ignoring or brushed off as normal behavior.

 

[not_my_kids]

The signs that there was something wrong seem to be well evident, and that is not to blame anyone, as there are many people that are obviously a bit out of touch, they don't do this. There was no way of knowing it would go this far.

But what was said above about them possibly trying to stay together for the kids has quite the ring of truth to it. There are still a lot of people that try that, and often with less than the desired result. It would also explain why, in her mental state, whatever that might be, their being mouthy would have had such an effect on her. She was "giving something up" and all she got for it was "mouthy kids". Or on the flip side of that, she didn't want the marriage to end and this was her way of showing that she still had some control. If her mental state was badly altered, which I still believe it was, she might even have really thought that her husband would "save" them. Even with the level of preplanning, I can see a severely mentally ill woman expecting the white horses and calvary to arrive just in time...

This bugs me, so much more than just the stories that have become normal, such as a parent killing their child for interrupting farmville.

 

[mushyb]

I'll add my 2 cents from personal experience. 15 years ago my dad, having been treasurer/manager of a credit union for 22 years, snapped. he went in one saturday morning and took $300,000. my mom and i had no clue what was happening. it was front page news in the paper almost daily. we had cops at our house all the time and our phones were tapped. we live near the US border in Canada and we figured he went into the US. there was a worldwide warrant out for his arrest. 17 days later as my mom and i were having coffee, he walked in the back door. it didn't even look like my dad. he was disheveled, had a beard, had on odd clothes and was barefoot. he began to ask us why we were keeping him held captive, he literally thought my mom and i were harming him. i quickly ran upstairs and called 911. the police came and treated him very well, telling him they needed his help at the police station. we went to see him that night in jail and he still was accusing us of hurting him. the next morning he went to court, the news filmed his "perp" walk and u could tell he was out of his mind. just a glazed over look and really confused. he was then sent to the psychiatric hospital in the forensics unit for 1 month. we found out later that he had tried committing suicide before returning home that morning. it caused his bizarre actions. i went and visited my dad daily, never talking about what had happened. after 1 month he was released pending a court date. my mother and i never new then that he had attempted suicide. he sent my mom and i away for the weekend to get some rest after all that had happened. we came home and found him dead from suicide. the hospital told us after he was a high suicide risk. he overdosed on amytripeline (?) medication that he had filled after leaving the hospital. it was the worst time of my life. i was just 20 years old at the time. i just wanted to point out that it can happen to anyone at anytime. my dad was a hard working family man and this was so out of character that no one could believe it. my life has been so hard since then, but i often wonder if he ever thought of killing my mom and i as well as himself. so many unanswered questions. my thoughts and prayers go out to everyone associated with this case. thanks for listening. one other thing, he never even spent a dime of the money he took and it was all returned.

 

[Nandee63]

Hugs to you...so sorry to hear what you and your mom went through. I cannot imagine the grief, distress, confusion and pain that you experienced.

 

[mushyb]

Article on people.com

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20463841,00.html

 

[fhc]

Article on people.com

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20463841,00.html

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Ada]

Oh mushy, that must have been so terrible. I'm so sorry.

 

[strawberry]

I'll add my 2 cents from personal experience. 15 years ago my dad, having been treasurer/manager of a credit union for 22 years, snapped. he went in one saturday morning and took $300,000. my mom and i had no clue what was happening. it was front page news in the paper almost daily. we had cops at our house all the time and our phones were tapped. we live near the US border in Canada and we figured he went into the US. there was a worldwide warrant out for his arrest. 17 days later as my mom and i were having coffee, he walked in the back door. it didn't even look like my dad. he was disheveled, had a beard, had on odd clothes and was barefoot. he began to ask us why we were keeping him held captive, he literally thought my mom and i were harming him. i quickly ran upstairs and called 911. the police came and treated him very well, telling him they needed his help at the police station. we went to see him that night in jail and he still was accusing us of hurting him. the next morning he went to court, the news filmed his "perp" walk and u could tell he was out of his mind. just a glazed over look and really confused. he was then sent to the psychiatric hospital in the forensics unit for 1 month. we found out later that he had tried committing suicide before returning home that morning. it caused his bizarre actions. i went and visited my dad daily, never talking about what had happened. after 1 month he was released pending a court date. my mother and i never new then that he had attempted suicide. he sent my mom and i away for the weekend to get some rest after all that had happened. we came home and found him dead from suicide. the hospital told us after he was a high suicide risk. he overdosed on amytripeline (?) medication that he had filled after leaving the hospital. it was the worst time of my life. i was just 20 years old at the time. i just wanted to point out that it can happen to anyone at anytime. my dad was a hard working family man and this was so out of character that no one could believe it. my life has been so hard since then, but i often wonder if he ever thought of killing my mom and i as well as himself. so many unanswered questions. my thoughts and prayers go out to everyone associated with this case. thanks for listening. one other thing, he never even spent a dime of the money he took and it was all returned.

I'm so sorry....my father had a breakdown too. He was an officer in the military in a high security field. One day he thought my mom was trying to poison him, thought the TV was sending him messages, thought there were bugs on the phone. It was terrifying. He eventually came out of it with antipsychotics but I often think of what could have happened...he was totally detached from us. I also wonder if being in such a top security level, knowing real life spies, made him more susceptible to this break.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'll add my 2 cents from personal experience. 15 years ago my dad, having been treasurer/manager of a credit union for 22 years, snapped. he went in one saturday morning and took $300,000. my mom and i had no clue what was happening. it was front page news in the paper almost daily. we had cops at our house all the time and our phones were tapped. we live near the US border in Canada and we figured he went into the US. there was a worldwide warrant out for his arrest. 17 days later as my mom and i were having coffee, he walked in the back door. it didn't even look like my dad. he was disheveled, had a beard, had on odd clothes and was barefoot. he began to ask us why we were keeping him held captive, he literally thought my mom and i were harming him. i quickly ran upstairs and called 911. the police came and treated him very well, telling him they needed his help at the police station. we went to see him that night in jail and he still was accusing us of hurting him. the next morning he went to court, the news filmed his "perp" walk and u could tell he was out of his mind. just a glazed over look and really confused. he was then sent to the psychiatric hospital in the forensics unit for 1 month. we found out later that he had tried committing suicide before returning home that morning. it caused his bizarre actions. i went and visited my dad daily, never talking about what had happened. after 1 month he was released pending a court date. my mother and i never new then that he had attempted suicide. he sent my mom and i away for the weekend to get some rest after all that had happened. we came home and found him dead from suicide. the hospital told us after he was a high suicide risk. he overdosed on amytripeline (?) medication that he had filled after leaving the hospital. it was the worst time of my life. i was just 20 years old at the time. i just wanted to point out that it can happen to anyone at anytime. my dad was a hard working family man and this was so out of character that no one could believe it. my life has been so hard since then, but i often wonder if he ever thought of killing my mom and i as well as himself. so many unanswered questions. my thoughts and prayers go out to everyone associated with this case. thanks for listening. one other thing, he never even spent a dime of the money he took and it was all returned.

:hug:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is tragic for everyone involved, including the mother. People don't "just snap" without showing signs. There had to be warning signs that someone was ignoring or brushed off as normal behavior.

I have to agree with Nancy (which I dont do often) when I saw her last night on Joy's show discussing this case.

She said there is no such thing as a 'snapped' defense. It doesn't exist and she said it sure doesn't exist in this case in particular.

She said there was no snapping to it. This woman went and calmly applied for gun ownership days before the murders. Waited days for her background check to be checked out so she could pick up the handgun and then she callously carried out her premeditated plan.

Nancy said each one of these steps took planning and aforethought.

Nancy also said this woman should get the death penally for two murders.

My opinion:

This wasnt a snap judgement made by a mentally ill person.

She was on a mission to eradicate her children and she did as she planned in great detail and forethought.

IMO

 

[Daisyjane]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/grand-jury-indicts-mother-accused-of-killing-her-children/1150751

TAMPA — A mother accused of killing her two children was indicted Thursday by a grand jury. Julie Schenecker, 50, admitted to police that she planned a "massacre" and shot her children on Jan. 27. Schenecker faces two felony charges of premeditated first-degree murder. Calyx was 16. Beau was 13. Her arraignment is set for Feb. 16. It's not clear if the Hillsborough County State Attorney's Office will seek the death penalty in this case, but they have 45 days from Schenecker's arraignment to decide, said Mark Cox, a spokesman.

 

[Nancy2441]

In His Own Words: Tampa Father Remembers Slain Children

"I forever will miss my two beautiful, loving kids. To help cope with my loss and have their incredible spirits live on, I am dedicating the rest of my life to honoring my children. I will remain involved in the activities that were important to them and support causes in which they believed.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20465087,00.html

 

[indicajane]

I just don't understand the outpouring of sympathy and understanding for this woman. In my mind, she's no different then the Skeleton children's father except that she didn't hide the bodies. She's a monster, and I hope she gets the death penalty.

 

[texasgirl2]

Some day you need to step into her shoes with all your heart and soul for a few moments:
You have parents who were apparently incapable of raising you for whatever reason, a reason that it not your fault but still makes you feel like you're not good enough.
You've been rejected by your own mother, the one person in the world who is supposed to be there for you unconditionally.
You've never really had an average day to day life with your father.
You're being raised by your grandparent and then you are rejected by her - so now that's two maternal failures.
You've been kicked out of your home, you are scared to go into a new situation, "taken in" (how generous!) by the father who had previously been unable to raise you full time.
Living with a step-mother who doesn't seem to like you much and appears to see you as as your father's problem, which feels like a 3rd maternal rejection.
You have a new sibling and this happily excites you, but this child WILL be raised with the parents you should have had, and with the home life you should have had.
You feel a bit envious of the baby, and oh so lonely, misunderstood, unfairly treated it and picked on.
Nothing you do seems right or good enough.
You're still such a young lady, but you've been through more emotional troubles than most adults ever experience.
And no one has ever taught you or demonstated the tools you need to properly cope with your confused and angry emotions.

Very well written and I appreciated your post so much on this topic. Thank you for what you wrote....it meant a lot to me on a personal note.

 

[kgeaux]

White Rain, I understand that it can be hard for parents to get help for truly dysfunctional, mentally ill, and/or physically dangerous teens,.

But I have to be honest and say that I think most of what your own SD did was very normal acting out and a desperate plea for help and attention = /sneaking out of the house/ smoking pot/ sex/foul mouthed back talk/ tattoos/ dramatic writings/ piercings/ lying to stay out of jail. None of it is certainly anything a parents wants for their child, but none of it is abnormal either. And it also doesn't mean that she's a bad kid or that her future will be bleak.

For several years your husband only raised his daughter on weekends, so a few 24 hour nights at the hospital, the stress of raising an unhappy and defiant teenager, and some extra cash for a few special programs/parole doesn't seem all that awful to me, especially when it seems she was in this position because of decisions the adults in her life had made over her entire life time.

It wasn't acceptable behavior, but it was still within the normal range of teenage behavior, things that could have and should have been handled in a much less dramatic fashion and in a much more compassionate way. The multiple sex partners is worrisome because it points towards the need for a more involved father figure or possible sexual abuse having been perpetrated against her at some time. The un-named misdemeanors are also concerning, but I'm sure you don't really want her locked up in prison, right? She needs/needed fellowship, counseling, group therapy, a mentor, etc. And I do agree with your that those should have been offered to her and the rest of your family, by the schools, churches, her doctors, the courts. This is a problem, a nationwide problem, one that needs to be addressed and dealt with.

Nothing she was doing was really all that terrible. These things would be terribly worrisome, imho: prostituting and/or stealing for hard-core drugs, not using protection and getting pregnant, or an STD or AIDS, dropping out of high school to runaway and move in with her unemployed boyfriend, plotting the murder of your family or strangers (and not just on paper or in her mind), telling huge, life altering lies such as telling the cops that your husband was molesting her so she could get out of going to jail or the mental hospital lock down. Tattoos, pot and sneaking out to meet a boyfriend just don't compare.

Some day you need to step into her shoes with all your heart and soul for a few moments:
You have parents who were apparently incapable of raising you for whatever reason, a reason that it not your fault but still makes you feel like you're not good enough.
You've been rejected by your own mother, the one person in the world who is supposed to be there for you unconditionally.
You've never really had an average day to day life with your father.
You're being raised by your grandparent and then you are rejected by her - so now that's two maternal failures.
You've been kicked out of your home, you are scared to go into a new situation, "taken in" (how generous!) by the father who had previously been unable to raise you full time.
Living with a step-mother who doesn't seem to like you much and appears to see you as as your father's problem, which feels like a 3rd maternal rejection.
You have a new sibling and this happily excites you, but this child WILL be raised with the parents you should have had, and with the home life you should have had.
You feel a bit envious of the baby, and oh so lonely, misunderstood, unfairly treated it and picked on.
Nothing you do seems right or good enough.
You're still such a young lady, but you've been through more emotional troubles than most adults ever experience.
And no one has ever taught you or demonstated the tools you need to properly cope with your confused and angry emotions.



In the case of the murders of Calyx and Beau, I think the opposite problem was occurring. It was the mother, their murderer, who had a problem/s that weren't being adequately dealt with. The family chose mostly to ignore her escalating problems, including her anger issues, alcohol abuse and depression. They never returned to Al-Anon; CPS didn't take seriously the many complaints of abuse made by Calyx. The father was not involved enough or in tune enough to know deep the problems with his wife ran. This mother didn't murder her children because they were uncontrollable delinquents who caused endless trouble and continuously disrespected her by being 'mouthy'. She killed them because she was in an alcohol fueled rage, unable to properly react to typical child behaviors.

Hitting the thanks button just didn't seem like enough....THANK YOU for your empathy!

It is so hard being a rejected child, and being the step parent of such a child is hard, hard, hard, too. Hopefully your post will give the step parents of children who are acting out a little more strength to go on, a little more ability to see through the eyes of the step child.