GUILTY Fl - Dan Markel, 41, Fsu Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #5 *arrests*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I would assume toilet wine is "hooch" made out of ingredients found in the prison (i.e. water and fermented fruit, etc.). There are ways to make alcoholic beverages, although I'm sure they taste like ****. (Disclaimer, I've never been in jail but I have watched documentaries ;) )

http://rootandbone.co.uk/prison-brew/
attachment.php

[h=3]Ingredients[/h]
  • 1 loaf of bread ( for yeast)
  • 1 cup of sugar (150-200 little sachets stored up
  • 2 apples chopped up small, core included (or oranges if that’s all you can get)
  • Hot water from tap
  • Ribena ( for flavour)
  • Ice cream can be added for flavour (but we only get it once a month)
  • Equipment Sink Sock or vest (to be used as strainer)
  • Drum (2 litre coke bottle)
  • Hot radiator
  • Plastic knife
  • Kettle
 

Attachments

  • Screen-Shot-2015-02-07-at-17.31.45.jpg
    Screen-Shot-2015-02-07-at-17.31.45.jpg
    72.5 KB · Views: 150
Yikes to late already mailed it.

Hello everybody,

First post here at WS, and it's gonna be a long one. First off I'd like to say nice to work to the WS administrators and to all the posters, and thank you. It was a pleasant surprise to find this forum and this thread. I have no personal connection to the DM case, but I am a criminal lawyer and have been quite captivated by this case since first learning about it, and stumbled upon this thread one day while looking for updates.

What drove me to finally register an account was the amount of commenting I see on the possible motivations of KM's lawyers, as well as some other comments here and there regarding various aspects of the legal process, that have made me want to jump in and gently correct some things. At the very least, adding my $.02 from my professional background might be constructive. Looking back through the thread it looks like some other lawyers have jumped in as well, so a big thank you to them for contributing to the discussion.

I'll preface this by saying that nothing I say is intended to be disrespectful or condescending. I do not expect non-lawyers to know these things, and so the nature and scope of the speculation on here is understandable and does not reflect poorly on anyone. But I do think there is some irony in the fact that many have mocked the A's lawyers for putting out their statement re "fanciful fiction," when much of the subsequent speculation here on WS about what is happening behind the scenes in this case is, in all likelihood, fanciful fiction of its own.

I really disagree with the suggestion that KMs lawyers are knowingly, or unknowingly, working as pawns for the still-unindicted alleged co-conspirators and their respective attorneys. I suppose I can't guarantee 100% that this isn't happening, but what I will say is that you cannot understate what a monumental ethical violation it would be for all lawyers involved. Some of the facts that many here find suspect, such as that the lawyers share the same address, mean nothing to me. First, it is very common that law offices are concentrated in certain areas of cities, so the chance of different lawyers working in the same building ending up on the same case is heightened to begin with. And even if there is a direct referral, the connection ends there and nothing should be read into that without further evidence. For example, I have gotten/given referrals from/to other attorneys for co-defendants on conspiracy cases, and as the case develops it turns out that the defendants have defenses that are "mutually antagonistic," i.e. one defendant points the finger at another, or at least minimizes his own conduct at the expense of another defendant. When that happens, there are no hard feelings between the attorneys, regardless of the original professional relationship that gave rise to the referral.

Same thing goes as to the source of funds. First, most lawyers will accept payment only directly from the client even if they have reason to know someone else is paying, and in their engagement agreement they make the client acknowledge that the lawyer's duty is to the client regardless of anyone else who may be helping pay the fees. I even have in my agreements that I won't communicate with anyone else but the client regarding the case, unless the client gives consent AND I determine there are no ethical issues with such communication. Translation: Mom pays for me to help little Johnny with his DUI - I'll probably end up talking to Mom about the case if little Johnny consents; mid-level drug trafficker suddenly has the cash to pay full retainer - I have no need to talk to anybody else. It could very well be true that the A's got KM a referral and helped pay for her legal fees. But under normal circumstances that would do absolutely nothing toward ensuring that KM and her attorneys conduct themselves to the A's liking, and KM's attorneys could conceivably accept the payment and still conduct themselves ethically and in the best interests of KM.

Nothing about the way KM's lawyers have handled the case so far suggests anything otherwise. Their aggressive stance and adamant maintaining of innocence is all par for the course. It doesn't indicate that they are foolish, or being controlled by other parties and their lawyers to their own client's detriment, or that they won't change their tune and take a plea at a moment's notice if the circumstances are right.

There have been some other posts here and there that have given me pause and made me somewhat concerned, just in general about the level of understanding of the legal process. For example, there was a post a while back in the thread where a poster suggested that prosecutor GC could surprise visit KM personally in jail without her lawyers present to get her to see the light. This is the type of thing that you might see in a legal movie or tv show, and if you did it would be highly unrealistic and cause anyone with any background in the legal profession to roll their eyes. It would simply never happen in real life, and would be a great way for GC to completely ruin her case. In fact, it is so out of the question that it wouldn't have even crossed GC's mind.

Also, really disagree with whoever suggested writing to KM in jail, and all those who jumped in afterward saying it's a good idea. It's a bad idea, or at the very least something that won't help anything, so don't do it.

Thanks to whomever put up with the long post. Again, I'm really fascinated by the DM case, and anxious to see how it plays out. I'll be checking this thread and I hope I can contribute meaningfully to the discussion.
 
Thank you so much for this post. From my own non-legal point of view, I appreciate everyone's input on the forum, but the clarity provided by the legal professionals who take the time to post here takes the conversation to the next level. While things may get a little crazy with regards to speculation at times, (but seriously nothing compared to the outlandish things I've seen on other threads on WS), the thoughtful and respectful contributions of all here always give me food for thought and pause to consider another angle.

And welcome to the forum!

~ E
 
Thank you and welcome. I appreciate this post and value your points. Hope to hear more from you soon.

Hello everybody,

Thanks to whomever put up with the long post. Again, I'm really fascinated by the DM case, and anxious to see how it plays out. I'll be checking this thread and I hope I can contribute meaningfully to the discussion.
 
You guys are too funny. I can assure you, the lawyers involved do not give half a damn about what you are saying about them, and consequently would feel no need to shill on here trying to correct it.
 
You guys are too funny. I can assure you, the lawyers involved do not give half a damn about what you are saying about them, and consequently would feel no need to shill on here trying to correct it.
lol couldn't resist. Welcome on board.
 
I've posted this before, but I can't fathom that two young lawyers would risk their careers and livelihood for KM and/or to placate another attorney. This makes sense to me and my thinking is that they are playing hardball to get the best deal. We saw this play out with Rivera.

You guys are too funny. I can assure you, the lawyers involved do not give half a damn about what you are saying about them, and consequently would feel no need to shill on here trying to correct it.
 
I simply cannot imagine that any lawyer involved in this case would have the time or inclination to post here - they all have much bigger fish to fry. What would be the aim of doing so? How could any of the accused benefit from a post?

~ E

ETA: I agree with reallybusy above - said much more succinctly than my post
 
Pawns 123, haha and thanks.

Reallybusy, you 100% hit it right on the head. And it works from either perspective. Two young lawyers with their whole careers ahead of them, and on the other side the A's very experienced lawyers, who by all accounts have impeccable credentials and reputations. Everyone involved would just plain know better.
 
Hello everybody,

First post here at WS, and it's gonna be a long one. First off I'd like to say nice to work to the WS administrators and to all the posters, and thank you. It was a pleasant surprise to find this forum and this thread. I have no personal connection to the DM case, but I am a criminal lawyer and have been quite captivated by this case since first learning about it, and stumbled upon this thread one day while looking for updates.

What drove me to finally register an account was the amount of commenting I see on the possible motivations of KM's lawyers, as well as some other comments here and there regarding various aspects of the legal process, that have made me want to jump in and gently correct some things. At the very least, adding my $.02 from my professional background might be constructive. Looking back through the thread it looks like some other lawyers have jumped in as well, so a big thank you to them for contributing to the discussion.

I'll preface this by saying that nothing I say is intended to be disrespectful or condescending. I do not expect non-lawyers to know these things, and so the nature and scope of the speculation on here is understandable and does not reflect poorly on anyone. But I do think there is some irony in the fact that many have mocked the A's lawyers for putting out their statement re "fanciful fiction," when much of the subsequent speculation here on WS about what is happening behind the scenes in this case is, in all likelihood, fanciful fiction of its own.

I really disagree with the suggestion that KMs lawyers are knowingly, or unknowingly, working as pawns for the still-unindicted alleged co-conspirators and their respective attorneys. I suppose I can't guarantee 100% that this isn't happening, but what I will say is that you cannot understate what a monumental ethical violation it would be for all lawyers involved. Some of the facts that many here find suspect, such as that the lawyers share the same address, mean nothing to me. First, it is very common that law offices are concentrated in certain areas of cities, so the chance of different lawyers working in the same building ending up on the same case is heightened to begin with. And even if there is a direct referral, the connection ends there and nothing should be read into that without further evidence. For example, I have gotten/given referrals from/to other attorneys for co-defendants on conspiracy cases, and as the case develops it turns out that the defendants have defenses that are "mutually antagonistic," i.e. one defendant points the finger at another, or at least minimizes his own conduct at the expense of another defendant. When that happens, there are no hard feelings between the attorneys, regardless of the original professional relationship that gave rise to the referral.

Same thing goes as to the source of funds. First, most lawyers will accept payment only directly from the client even if they have reason to know someone else is paying, and in their engagement agreement they make the client acknowledge that the lawyer's duty is to the client regardless of anyone else who may be helping pay the fees. I even have in my agreements that I won't communicate with anyone else but the client regarding the case, unless the client gives consent AND I determine there are no ethical issues with such communication. Translation: Mom pays for me to help little Johnny with his DUI - I'll probably end up talking to Mom about the case if little Johnny consents; mid-level drug trafficker suddenly has the cash to pay full retainer - I have no need to talk to anybody else. It could very well be true that the A's got KM a referral and helped pay for her legal fees. But under normal circumstances that would do absolutely nothing toward ensuring that KM and her attorneys conduct themselves to the A's liking, and KM's attorneys could conceivably accept the payment and still conduct themselves ethically and in the best interests of KM.

Nothing about the way KM's lawyers have handled the case so far suggests anything otherwise. Their aggressive stance and adamant maintaining of innocence is all par for the course. It doesn't indicate that they are foolish, or being controlled by other parties and their lawyers to their own client's detriment, or that they won't change their tune and take a plea at a moment's notice if the circumstances are right.

There have been some other posts here and there that have given me pause and made me somewhat concerned, just in general about the level of understanding of the legal process. For example, there was a post a while back in the thread where a poster suggested that prosecutor GC could surprise visit KM personally in jail without her lawyers present to get her to see the light. This is the type of thing that you might see in a legal movie or tv show, and if you did it would be highly unrealistic and cause anyone with any background in the legal profession to roll their eyes. It would simply never happen in real life, and would be a great way for GC to completely ruin her case. In fact, it is so out of the question that it wouldn't have even crossed GC's mind.

Also, really disagree with whoever suggested writing to KM in jail, and all those who jumped in afterward saying it's a good idea. It's a bad idea, or at the very least something that won't help anything, so don't do it.

Thanks to whomever put up with the long post. Again, I'm really fascinated by the DM case, and anxious to see how it plays out. I'll be checking this thread and I hope I can contribute meaningfully to the discussion.
Thank you, welcome, and excellent first post! [emoji93]

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Pawns 123, haha and thanks.

Reallybusy, you 100% hit it right on the head. And it works from either perspective. Two young lawyers with their whole careers ahead of them, and on the other side the A's very experienced lawyers, who by all accounts have impeccable credentials and reputations. Everyone involved would just plain know better.

Also, aside from KM's attorneys' ethical obligations, wouldn't it be incredibly risky, even downright stupid, for the As to be essentially funneling more money to KM at this point? Assuming that a case against one or more of the As goes to trial, one of the state's primary arguments will be that the As were paying KM despite the fact that she did no legitimate work for the dental practice. (Those funds, the state will contend, were payment for the hit.) The As will presumably argue that any money they paid KM was for legitimate work. So wouldn't paying KM's legal fees severely undercut that argument? What legitimate, non-incriminating, reason would there be for the As to be paying her legal fees at this point? If there's evidence that KM helped orchestrate the murder of the father of their daughter's children -- and I think there's a ton -- why would the As help her out (except as part of some plot to save their own skin)?
 
As far as this is concerned, I'd say yes and no. There is a strong argument to keeping out evidence of payment based on attorney-client privilege and based on Rule 403 concerns (or whatever the rule number is in Florida, I don't practice there) - the evidence, while having some probative value, is excessively prejudicial. For example that it is just as plausible that someone would pay their girlfriend/ex-girlfriend's legal fees because they are truly innocent and want them to have the best representation possible, and so the danger that a jury would be tempted to buy the sinister implication and not the innocent one warrants exclusion. But your broader point is 100% correct, which is that for all practical purposes, the A's would want to steer clear of KM, even if clever lawyering could later help them get around it.

Also, aside from KM's attorneys' ethical obligations, wouldn't it be incredibly risky, even downright stupid, for the As to be essentially funneling more money to KM at this point? Assuming that a case against one or more of the As goes to trial, one of the state's primary arguments will be that the As were paying KM despite the fact that she did no legitimate work for the dental practice. (Those funds, the state will contend, were payment for the hit.) The As will presumably argue that any money they paid KM was for legitimate work. So wouldn't paying KM's legal fees severely undercut that argument? What legitimate, non-incriminating, reason would there be for the As to be paying her legal fees at this point? If there's evidence that KM helped orchestrate the murder of the father of their daughter's children -- and I think there's a ton -- why would the As help her out (except as part of some plot to save their own skin)?
 
Two things as a criminal defense attorney that always seemed to happen, yet never ceased to baffle me - 1) People confessing to crimes in recorded jail phone calls and 2) People confessing to fellow inmates that they barely knew and who have an incentive to sell them out as leverage in their own pending criminal charges. Nonetheless, this "toilet wine" story made my day - more evidence for the prosecution. Hopefully this additional evidence will cause KM to come down on her expectations a little bit and bring them closer to a plea agreement.
 
Lat is back. Just rehashed the Democrat article. Nothing new. Not posting the link.
 
You guys are too funny. I can assure you, the lawyers involved do not give half a damn about what you are saying about them, and consequently would feel no need to shill on here trying to correct it.
Well, I guess you haven't heard of Dave Lat, then.



Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
 
i hope so but i still think KM's attorneys will push her to go to trial and she's naive enough to listen to them. they are getting their marching orders from elsewhere IMO.

Although in the very beginning there were indications the A's arranged for legal counsel on behalf of SG, nefarious, unethical attorneys selling their client out to protect a wealthy family isn't a plausible scenario, imo. Many reasons have been delineated by others in recent posts. ‎
‎
The way I see it, anyone who would help facilitate the execution of an innocent man is pathologically self centered, entitled, lacks remorse and probably thinks they know better than everyone else. She enlisted the help of her father's children, never pausing long enough to ponder what would happen to those kids if their parents were caught. I don't see KM as some delicate wallflower who inadvertently got swept up in a situation of happenstance. I see her as a greedy, morally void, self absorbed, street hustler with a very high opinion of herself.*

The more likely scenario here is that KM's attorneys ARE urging her to take a plea, as (arguably) they are ethically obligated to do at this point. I further think she is refusing to take their advice out of a sense of superior wisdom & knowledge. It's certainly not unusual for egomanical hustlers to refuse the advice of counsel regarding plea deals based on the misguided perception they can beat the charges. KM is likely calling all the shots right now because SHE knows better than EVERYONE else. * ‎
‎
I personally think she is absolute trash and because of her unwillingness to come to the negotiating table I hope she rots in prison. ‎

‎
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
181
Guests online
242
Total visitors
423

Forum statistics

Threads
608,477
Messages
18,240,096
Members
234,385
Latest member
johnwich
Back
Top