FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[Momoffourboys]

Crawler on Fox news just said authorities believes he was planning this attack for some time.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Yeh, but what happened afterwards as it relates to airport security is the problem for the future.


moo

Unfortunately, this can't be blamed on TSA. He carried the weapon legally.
Baggage claim is not a secure location. Itsbjust like being outside, anywhere.

This one is on gun regulations and veteran affairs. IMO

 

[drjones]

NSS - you make some good points in your last post, the only thing is the new evidence from earlier that the FBI says he planned to do this to some degree before traveling

 

[katydid23]

.
Going to the FBI and telling them he heard voices, voluntarily committing himself, and then doing what he did, then lying on the ground after he ran out of bullets. He needed proper mental health care that our vets nor our civilians get. Now if he'd never tried to reach out for help, had no history of schizophrenia and his family had said, oh, we don't know what happened, he seemed just fine all of these years, and he yelled out allahu akbar, along with having visited some sort of web sites, or training camp, then I'd say, this dude is an ISIS inspired terrorist. I've not dug into the news this morning but as of last night he seemed like a vet, with a rather severe mental health problem that went untreated, (two weeks is not enough treatment, imo) until he lost touch w/reality at some point on that plane.

Lying on the ground after he ran out of bullets sounds like a sane thing to do---not like someone out of touch with reality.

And we don't know if he has a history of schizophrenia. I have not seen any evidence that he was formally diagnosed.

There are reports that he did visit Jihadist websites---he told the FBI he was forced to do so. And there are pictures of him doing the ISIS salute etc.

If he had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and had lost touch with reality, then I don't think he would have been interrogated by the FBI for several hours, nor charged with murder and held jail. He would have been hospitalized, imo.

If he had lost touch with reality on that plane, I doubt he could have pulled off what he did---hiding in the bathroom to load the weapon etc. That took thinking and planning on his part.

MAYBE he is mentally incompetent. But I am not ready to say that with what little we really know so far.

 

[CARIIS]

Here is the Naples FL angle--just IMO shows how disorganized his thinking is. There is a reason why he picked here - there are a lot of bigger airports.

[h=3]Fort Lauderdale shooting suspect has ties to Naples FL[/h]
It seems he thought he might shoot people and cruise over to Naples to be with a relative in a familiar place>>


Sources told NBC2 the suspected shooter, 26-year-old Esteban Santiago, used to live there, and a relative of his still lives in the home.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

In this report they show him ---the uniform stuff was bogus

[video=youtube;XJdC3AHXcIg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJdC3AHXcIg[/video]

Who is this? He is a victim that was shot. I watch the aerial video of him live.

 

[CARIIS]

... TSAs entire premise is we have to keep bad things off our beautiful machines that soar in wild blue yonder...

^bbm sbm Machines in the sky, exactly.

Just jumping off your post and not disagreeing w you, do we criticize lawmakers for not passing laws & LE for not enforcing (non-existent) laws to keep ppl in airports safe from gun violence? Knife injuries? Is there a statutory or enforcement gap?

Historically in 1960s-70s, ppl w guns high-jacking inter-US commercial flight diverted planes to Cuba.* Then laws & enforcement = metal detectors & security measures to prevent firearms from being broughtonboard. Undoubtedly pre-TSA there were firearm injuries and deaths in airport terminal, on tarmac, etc. but not a national focus. Post Sept 11, TSA more laws & further security measures to prevent knives (& sharp/bladed instruments/tools) from being brought onboard.

So until recently, imo, airport/airline security concerns focused largely on preventing firearms, knives, blades, & other weapons from being brought onboard, which in turn prevents planes from highjackings or forced crashes like 9-11, not gen public safety in terminals' ticket counters, baggage claims, curbside check-in, frequent flyer lounges, parking lots & garages. JM2cts.

____________________________________________________
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cuba–United_States_aircraft_hijackings (US-Cuba)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings world-wide.

The game has changed/ Do I have an answer no?

Yesterday did I conclude that the whole game has changed. Yes

Aviation was one of the safest as it relates to mass shootings / terrorists

I do not know the body count needed, but at some point this nation is going to have weigh the second amendment with the body count its not an option - look all over the world civilized nations are not doing this stuff


moo

A lot of posters have said they did not even open there gun cases.

AK 47 next - same scenario?

Do hunters use semi automatics - not being snarky- the only thing I have hunted is men!!!.

 

[CARIIS]

Who is this? He is a victim that was shot. I watch the aerial video of him live.

This statement was related to the pic of him being arrested inside- not this image

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Official: FLL shooter told FBI that gov't controlled his mind

http://www.local10.com/news/what-we-know-about-fll-airport-shooter

Esteban Santiago, the accused killer at the crowded baggage claim area of Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, told the FBI in November that the government controlled his mind and forced him to watch ISIS videos.

..............................

Travelers are allowed to bring firearms with them to flights as long as the guns are unloaded, locked in a hard-sided container and in checked baggage, according to the Transportation Security Administration. Ammunition can be brought onto flights but also must be placed in checked baggage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...no-name:homepage/story&utm_term=.efc6392e8d82


The firearm was the only bag that Santiago checked when he traveled alone from Anchorage, en route to Minneapolis and then Florida, said Jesse Davis, chief of police at Ted Stevens International Airport in Anchorage, where passengers routinely check their weapons. “We’re a big hunting state, so we get quite a lot of that,” said Davis.

“Everything appeared normal,” said Davis. Santiago checked in for his Delta flight more than four hours early, which was unusual, said Davis, but “didn’t call attention to himself at all.”

**** This sure seems like a red flag to me!
....................................

In the photo, the young father wore a T-shirt emblazoned with the logo for the band “Disturbed.” Ruiz said that Santiago, whose mother lives in Puerto Rico, appeared happy after the birth of his son, but that changed a short time later. She said he was hospitalized for two weeks, but she did not have details about his condition.
**** Almost like he was advertising his mental health issues.
"I don't know why this happened,'' she said, before FBI agents showed up at her door and local authorities closed off the street near her home.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/06/airport-shooter-isil-mind-control/96268492/

.........................................

In November, the suspect appeared unannounced in the FBI offices in Anchorage, complaining that the Islamic State had gained control of his mind and the terror group was urging him to fight on its behalf, the official said.
**** I don’t even know where my local FBI office is! In the Military it makes sense he would though.

http://www.13newsnow.com/ext/news/n...-airport/291/nationnow/2gbKg6ZLqYWUKkqgamkU8k

Army records show that Santiago had served in U.S. military service from December 2007 to August 2016. He had been awarded several commendations, including the Army Good Conduct Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, according to the Army public affairs office in Washington.

...........................

Since returning from Iraq, Santiago served in the Army Reserves and the Alaska National Guard in Anchorage. He was serving as a combat engineer in the Guard before his discharge for "unsatisfactory performance," said Lt. Col. Candis Olmstead, a spokeswoman. His military rank upon discharge was E3, private 1st class, and he worked one weekend a month with an additional 15 days of training yearly, Olmstead said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-01-07-03-41-25

She would not elaborate on his discharge, but the Pentagon said he'd gone AWOL several times and was demoted and discharged.

...........................................................

Santiago-Ruiz had active-duty military identification on him at the time of the shooting. It was unclear if the identification was the gunman’s, Sen. Bill Nelson said on Friday.
**** This is odd. They are required to return them when discharged. Of course there are many ways to manage to keep one, by claiming it was lost etc... I still question it's authenticity.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/esteban-santiago-ruiz-fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-suspect/

He was also investigated as part of a child *advertiser censored* investigation in either 2011 or 2012, law enforcement sources told CBS News. Three weapons and a computer were seized, but no charges were filed, sources said.


bbm

****Starred Comments are my opinion only!

(I can't remember how to change the color of my text!)

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Wondering if he chose Florida because of the death penalty?
Something about going from cold Alaska to hot Florida to commit murder..hmm. Are the jails better? Hatred for the type of travelers that are likely to be there at this time of year?
speculation.imo
http://www.cp24.com/world/gunman-ap...pecifically-to-carry-out-attack-fbi-1.3231502

He wants Caseys Anthony's atty to represent him?
The weather is better?
He won't run into other ex military that know him?
His family can visit him easier?

IDK

 

[CARIIS]

Police audio of event --after the gunman was apprehended. according to poster but they are talking at times about term 4 I would think by that time they would know it was term 2 so who ?knows

[video=youtube;PlSau2FBsAw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlSau2FBsAw[/video]

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I've been there as well. I'm trying to wrap my head around the policy that allowed for a firearm to be returned to a passenger at a point where they will still be in the congregation of others, rather than a secure Exit. In other words, checked weapons should be returned to owners as they leave the premises & not until. I've never thought about this being possible before. I remember preparing letters for our DA to sign verifying a need for an agent to transport their service weapon who was traveling for the purpose of picking up a perp who had been extradited to return & face charges in our State.

Anyone with a loaded gun can walk inside the airport from the parking area to baggage and shop in all the stores perhaps have a bite to eat before encountering the TSA safety check point at the airport in Atlanta.
He surely found a loop hole that needs to be addressed.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

he could have and most like WOULD HAVE done the same thing anywhere.....airport or not does not matter, he was going to kill one way or another....the location doesn't really matter

I'm thinking for reason in this case it did matter. He wanted to get to Florida for some reason
Moo

 

[al66pine]

gitana1 - thank you very much for spurring line of thinking below. She posted waaaay upthread (my paraphrasing) -
Weapons screening/safety checkpoints/other safety measures wherever they are installed or introduced in airports will/would create bottlenecks at busy times, i.e., masses of people in queues making a 'target rich environment' for ppl w weapons wiling to use them.

I also see more posts w similar ^ thinking re this, and maybe this expands on idea a bit differently
1. This man w his firearm & ammo could have inflicted same number of deaths and injuries virtually anywhere he could approach ~20+ ppl.
--- At airport in Anchorage, MSP, or FLL: at curbside check-in, main terminal bldg entry/lobby, tix counters, conceivably in restroom or parking garage, or rental car shuttle, baggage claim, as he actually did; or
---Other than airport, such as grocery store, shopping mall, big box store, movie theater; sports venue of grade school, high school, professional team. Not to mention city bus/subway/light rail stop, train station. School classroom, any age level, library, city council meeting. Church, temple, mosque, other house of worship. Countless places he could lawfully enter. Or could enter w gun unlawfully, but without his entry being denied.

2. Virtually any person owning or having access to firearmcould have inflicted same number of deaths and injuries as this man did at FLL baggage claim and undoubtedly some other areas of FLL or other airports. Or other locations, such as ^ stores, schools, etc.

IOW, this attack was not immutably specific to this airport, not is this man the only one capable of this kind of attack.

I wish it could have been prevented.
More gun-laws, e.g., ownership-qualification, ownership-registration, mandatory gun class, background checks? Nationwide gun confiscation?
Expanded mental health services, e.g. public, private, for vets, for all, residential facilities, group therapy, more meds?
Sad, sad, sad. IDK if or how it could have been prevented but know that it is tragic. Can we prevent them all?

 

[CARIIS]

I'm thinking for reason in this case it did matter. He wanted to get to Florida for some reason
Moo

He has family in Naples FL linked earlier and I heard that yesterday as well.

But of course the media plays it like FLL was "targeted"

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

He has family in Naples FL linked earlier and I heard that yesterday as well.

But of course the media plays it like FLL was "targeted"

I do wonder how random the victims were.
Death alone is tragic, but 3 of these innocent people appear to be elderly, at least over 50.

I am curious as to the ages of all the victims. If they were all older, it does make me question why he shot them.

If he shot people of all ages, then I will fell like it was random.

Have they determined or reperted, that he didn't shoot anyone from his flight, just the Delta flight from Atlanta? Or no?

 

[Tawny]

Unfortunately, this can't be blamed on TSA. He carried the weapon legally.
Baggage claim is not a secure location. Itsbjust like being outside, anywhere.

This one is on gun regulations and veteran affairs. IMO

Finally someone said it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

"Fort Lauderdale Shooting: Three Victims Identified as Cruise Goers"


https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcn...e-florida-shooting-victims-identified-n704201

 

[CARIIS]

Isn't that amazing -according to this therir are only 4 airports in the US that are running badly!!

And they are the usual suspects!!e

When I went somewhere else it was still a mess so not sure

http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp

 

[dotr]

6:25 p.m.
Federal prosecutors have filed charges against the Florida airport shooting suspect that could bring the death penalty if he is convicted.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-ft-lauderdale-airport-reopens-shooting-130237264.html

A criminal complaint filed Saturday by the Miami U.S. attorney's office accuses 26-year-old Esteban Santiago of an act of violence at an international airport resulting in death. The punishment is execution or any prison sentence up to life.

Prosecutors also charged Santiago with two firearms offenses.
Santiago is accused of fatally shooting five people and wounding six others Friday at a Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport baggage claim. The FBI says Santiago traveled from Alaska to Fort Lauderdale specifically to carry out the shooting.