GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #17

[Missyrocks5]

I agree with all of this!! It is baffling to me that they thought the inconvenience of traveling 7 hours from Miami to see the grandkids was enough to murder the father of their grandkids? Dan might not have been a great husband but he seemed like a reasonable guy. If they hadn't been so vindictive I'm sure something could have been worked out best for all involved.

I agree with what you both are saying. If we play devil's advocate, however, there are several points she makes in her email diatribes that I could see her side. Certainly not for murder, but I understand her being upset. They were saying that she was driving up every other weekend when WA had the kids. That is up and back every other weekend. That's a lot for people in their 60s, 70.

Him being much more conservative in his religion than their reformed Jewish background was a big sticking point. He appeared to be more fervent in his insistence on following his ideology versus hers. Like so many couples who break up, I think people compromise when they're together, and when they break up, they want what they want. You see DA talking about how the kids were already commenting how gross it was anyone eating in a non-kosher way. She was telling WA that this is only going to get worse with time, and she is going to have kids who are being indoctrinated with his beliefs over theirs.

But there's no doubt that it was a culmination of several things like paying for the lawyers and losing because he spent all of his time researching everything to make sure to win (and i suppose the law favored him.) They were tired of him winning his motions, they were tired of paying the attorney that WA had for losing & you see DA being exasperated at W.A. not being more aggressive in everything she could do to fight back. DA painted the picture that this was gonna be a never-ending fight over everything eith the boys.

Part of it I think is that he was more of a big deal, or at least viewed himself that way, and she, as smart as she is, was supposed to be in the background because he was the big star. You could see how she lit up like a Christmas tree discussing her accomplishments while she was testifying. I think she is the baby in that household that was praised constantly for everything and here she was considered chopped liver compared to his filet mignon, or made to feel that way. She & her family resented it.

But his goose was cooked with that supervised visitation. I think they saw a future of neverending fighting, him winning, stuck in a town she hated, and CA said let's take him out to be the big man for both women and his dad. IMO

 

[alexwood]

Of course. Dan was already traveling to NY a lot, he had a girlfriend there, he might not have wanted to stay in Tally. The motion to relocate was made very early on. Something most likely would have changed, things always do. Wendy, btw, said as much on the stand in this trial. She said she believed they could have worked something out.

It’s amazing that Donna thought that THEIR travel, and the loss of income to THEIR business, would be something a court would consider at all, or that it was relevant to Wendi’s divorce. In one of Donna’s emails, she’s giving Wendi arguments to make in support of her petition, and it’s literally “my parents are losing income because they have to drive up here.” It should have been a list of reasons the children and Wendi should be allowed to move, but the reasons she lists are all about how moving will affect HER, not them. Also, Donna says in one of the emails that Wendi could have a nanny if she moved. Why, instead of driving all that way regularly, didn’t they just pay for her to get some help with the kids?

Because there was a void in the life of DA (a/k/a "The control freak") that could only be filled by having Wendi and the Grandkids around all the time. Wendi could be manipulated (to a point), and DA needed to manipulate and have control. (IMO)

 

[alexwood]

I agree with all of this!! It is baffling to me that they thought the inconvenience of traveling 7 hours from Miami to see the grandkids was enough to murder the father of their grandkids? Dan might not have been a great husband but he seemed like a reasonable guy. If they hadn't been so vindictive I'm sure something could have been worked out best for all involved.

I think that Dan would have been a better husband if he had felt truly loved by Wendi. I know he sensed that she was not as in love with him as he was with her. (Just a feeling I have.)

 

[Wishbone]

Wishbone, I'm going to ask you to re-phrase your question. [I've been watching too many trials!]

Ok. When DA and WA zeroed in on him on that J dating site did they think the Harvard Lawyer grad was going places and going to be in the money before long and would make a good catch for big bucks before long? You know, forget marrying for love,go after the money. How's that?

 

[amicuscurie]

I agree with what you both are saying. If we play devil's advocate, however, there are several points she makes in her email diatribes that I could see her side. Certainly not for murder, but I understand her being upset. They were saying that she was driving up every other weekend when WA had the kids. That is up and back every other weekend. That's a lot for people in their 60s, 70.

Him being much more conservative in his religion than their reformed Jewish background was a big sticking point. He appeared to be more fervent in his insistence on it following his ideology versus hers. Like so many couples who break up, I think people compromise when they're together, and when they break up, they want what they want. You see DA talking about how the kids were already commenting how gross it was anyone eating in a non-kosher way. She was telling WA that this is only going to get worse with time, and she is going to have kids who are being indoctrinated with his beliefs over theirs.

But there's no doubt that it was a culmination of several things like paying for the lawyers and losing because he spent all of his time researching everything to make sure to win (and i suppose the law favored him.) They were tired of him winning his motions, they were tired of paying the attorney that WA had for losing & you see DA being exasperated at W.A. not being more aggressive in everything she could do to fight back. DA painted the picture that this was gonna be a never-ending fight over everything eith the boys.

Part of it I think is that he was more of a big deal, or at least viewed himself that way, and she, as smart as she is, was supposed to be in the background because he was the big star. You could see how she lit up like a Christmas tree discussing her accomplishments while she was testifying. I think she is the baby in that household that was praised constantly for everything and here she was considered chopped liver compared to his filet mignon, or made to feel that way.

But his goose was cooked with that supervised visitation. I think they saw a future of neverending fighting, him winning, stuck in a town she hated, and CA said let's take him out to be the big man for both women and his dad. IMO

Do we really think the court would grant supervised visitation based on two stray comments by toddlers? Courts don’t generally grant that absent a pattern of misconduct. The whole divorce was overly contentious on both sides.

On the other hand, it seems to me from the last trial that Dan did have real reasons to fear Donna, just not the ones he thought.

 

[alexwood]

Ok. When DA and WA zeroed in on him on that J dating site did they think the Harvard Lawyer grad was going places and going to be in the money before long and would make a good catch for big bucks before long? You know, forget marrying for love,go after the money. How's that?

And I answer with a resounding: YES! Show them the $$$$! And, I don't know, but he didn't have much experience engaged in the practice of law to be a professor. They must have needed them badly at FSU. He did have a court of appeals judicial clerkship, I think. That was good. But not enough experience to be a professor. Those who can "DO." Those who can't "TEACH." That's some old adage that does not apply to teachers themselves -- but a professor is different. (IMO)

 

[amicuscurie]

I think that Dan would have been a better husband if he had felt truly loved by Wendi. I know he sensed that she was not as in love with him as he was with her. (Just a feeling I have.)

It just doesn‘t seem to me like they were well suited.

ETA: that might have been because apparently he was chosen for her.

 

[turaj]

I agree with all of this!! It is baffling to me that they thought the inconvenience of traveling 7 hours from Miami to see the grandkids was enough to murder the father of their grandkids? Dan might not have been a great husband but he seemed like a reasonable guy. If they hadn't been so vindictive I'm sure something could have been worked out best for all involved.

It also sounded like things were going to be changing soon enough as he was serious with this girlfriend up in NYC and he had sights on Harvard to maybe some other positions up there. I think they just hated him...not just the distance but having him out of the way was just the best solution in general for them.

 

[turaj]

Still amazes me that apparently (at least from what we’ve seen), Donna didn’t object to any of these women, given how controlling it seems she was with the other two children and their relationships. “Equal parts black sheep and momma’s boy” is a brilliant bit of phrasing by Georgia. What an interesting family dynamic.

Yes I was struck by Charlie parading these Asian women (seems his true preference) at family events and clearly they were pretty exotic and not exactly the girl a jewish mother imagines her son brings home....and Donna is okay with all of it. She was fine putting Katie on the payroll but no work required. Oh right that is the payment schedule to the Latin Kings. YOu can't make this stuff up. He arranges boob jobs and everything!!! Charlie did it all.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes I was struck by Charlie parading these Asian women (seems his true preference) at family events and clearly they were pretty exotic and not exactly the girl a jewish mother imagines her son brings home....and Donna is okay with all of it. She was fine putting Katie on the payroll but no work required. Oh right that is the payment schedule to the Latin Kings. YOu can't make this stuff up. He arranges boob jobs and everything!!! Charlie did it all.

Speaking generally and not of this particular family, I think in a lot of families with multiple children, each child takes on a particular role, oldest being responsible and smart, youngest being the baby, and the middle sort of being forgotten. Or, one child is the superstar and one the designated F-up. Etc. These roles are assigned pretty early in life, and they seem to sort out the same from family to family. A lot of parents can’t help themselves from assigning these roles or comparing or pitting the children against each other.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think one of the many reasons I'm so obsessed with this case is because I can identify with Dan (and alternatively, have a morbid curiosity with the minds of the Adelsons). I went through a divorce with toddler kids. My ex-wife was cheating on me and when I found out the marriage was obviously over. But my first reaction was absolute HORROR - not for me but for the kids. It made me physically sick to process how to tell the kids and then have them grow up in a broken home. Or 2 homes. I didn't blame her for the cheating and promised to never tell anyone cause I didn't want my kids to find out, ever. This is probably the first time I'm telling anyone that. I spent the first few months reading books about how to navigate divorce and co-parent so we could have the least amount of trauma possible on the kids. So I will never properly understand Wendi and Donna but - like any decent human being - I can understand Dan.

Horrific. Am sorry to hear it.
Most normal people & normal parents of toddlers would feel the same as you. IMO it's our basic human nature to want to shield & protect tiny children.

I think in this particular case - the Adelsons- they are beyond selfish, there's something sociopathic about them.
eg Wendi claims to be a professional in the H. Rights sector, advocating for child immigrants and trafficked women but she can, conspire to murder her toddlers' father and according to Lacasse, be unperturbed by Charlie recounting his sexual assault of his girlfriend ( As revenge after he'd been punched at a Korean( ?) wedding.

The early depos ( re-enactments on Mentour Lawyer's channel) show how ruthless Wendi could be, as does fact she's led her best friends to believe that she was at physical risk from DM to the extent they assumed that she'd been shot, not DM murdered .
The emails obvioulsy show how unhinged Donna was. They've all been dehumanising him for years. I think the hate factor has been undervalued by the state in this case.

 

[Sustained]

I agree with what you both are saying. If we play devil's advocate, however, there are several points she makes in her email diatribes that I could see her side. Certainly not for murder, but I understand her being upset. They were saying that she was driving up every other weekend when WA had the kids. That is up and back every other weekend. That's a lot for people in their 60s, 70.

RSBM -

DA was just playing the martyr card - they did not have to go up every other w/e. WA could have easily gotten day care help during the work week.

 

[amicuscurie]

Horrific. Am sorry to hear it.
Most normal people & normal parents of toddlers would feel the same as you. IMO it's our basic human nature to want to shield & protect tiny children.

I think in this particular case - the Adelsons- they are beyond selfish, there's something sociopathic about them.
eg Wendi claims to be a professional in the HR sector, advocating for child immigrants and trafficked women but she can, conspire to murder her toddlers' father and according to Lacasse, be unperturbed by Charlie recounting his sexual assault of his girlfriend ( As revenge after he'd been punched at a Korean( ?) wedding.

The early depos ( re-enactments on Mentour Lawyer's channel) show how ruthless Wendi could be, as does fact she's led her best friends to believe that she was at physical risk from DM to the extent they assumed that she'd been shot, not DM murdered .
The emails obvioulsy show how unhinged Donna was. They've all been dehumanising him for years. I think the hate factor has been undervalued by the state in this case.

One nitpick- Jane at the police station says she thought Dan had “assaulted” her, NOT that he had shot her. Jane when she got there did not know there had been a shooting. Wendi does say that Lisa the realtor thought the same thing Jane did. According to the realtor’s message, if I recall correctly, she just heard there had been an incident on Trescott, not necessarily a shooting, and she thought of Wendi. She doesn’t say why, and she does not expressly state that she thought Dan assaulted Wendi, just that she thought of her. We don’t know what Wendi told the realtor, if anything, about that relationship. We don’t know why the realtor thought of her. We know only how Wendi said she had interpreted Lisa’s call.

 

[amicuscurie]

RSBM -

DA was just playing the martyr card - they did not have to go up every other w/e. WA could have easily gotten day care help during the work week.

She did. The kids were in preschool until around 5pm, even during the summer.

 

[cottonweaver]

One nitpick- Jane at the police station says she thought Dan had “assaulted” her, NOT that he had shot her. Jane when she got there did not know there had been a shooting. Wendi does say that Lisa the realtor thought the same thing Jane did. According to the realtor’s message, if I recall correctly, she just heard there had been an incident on Trescott, not necessarily a shooting, and she thought of Wendi. She doesn’t say why, and she does not expressly state that she thought Dan assaulted Wendi, just that she thought of her. We don’t know what Wendi told the realtor, if anything, about that relationship. We don’t know why the realtor thought of her. We know only how Wendi said she had interpreted Lisa’s call.

that's correct. but why would anyone just assume that WA was at the police station because Wendi had been assaulted? Wendi has already admitted during litigation that he was never physically abusive? ( Who knows Lisa's real opinion, Wendi certainly managed to get Jane to assume the worst)


Jane says ‘ my first thought was Dan had assaulted you… ‘ WA replies ‘ I think that was Lisa’s thought when.. she called me to say she'd heard there was a shooting on Trescott'

IMO Wendi was stoking everybody and that might also have included her family

 

[cottonweaver]

RSBM -

DA was just playing the martyr card - they did not have to go up every other w/e. WA could have easily gotten day care help during the work week.

Also in that Mentour Lawyer Depo, WA explains that her mum came and moved in with them after the birth of the second child.
In the other depo, iirc Wendi was working 1-2 regular days per week at the FSU law clinic.

 

[Sustained]

Also in that Mentour Lawyer Depo, WA explains that her mum came and moved in with them after the birth of the second child.
In the other depo, iirc Wendi was working 1-2 regular days per week at the FSU law clinic.

BBM

Poor Dan - imagine that controlling woman in their home.

 

[turaj]

Speaking generally and not of this particular family, I think in a lot of families with multiple children, each child takes on a particular role, oldest being responsible and smart, youngest being the baby, and the middle sort of being forgotten. Or, one child is the superstar and one the designated F-up. Etc. These roles are assigned pretty early in life, and they seem to sort out the same from family to family. A lot of parents can’t help themselves from assigning these roles or comparing or pitting the children against each other.

I thought there really strange answer by CA to a question as to whether his mother had a favorite child. He started with I don't think she likes Robert at all. Wow...what a thing to say and I guess it is no doubt true.

 

[cottonweaver]

BBM

Poor Dan - imagine that controlling woman in their home.

I guess that was 2009 but not sure.

In the same depo ( Markel was also present in the depo) she said that she'd first spoken to him about a divorce in 2011 and that in Fall 2011 she spent extended periods time in Florida with the kids & her parents, because DM was travelling and also working remotely from home.

She also claimed that she wanted to take a break from working after 2nd child but DM wanted her to work after both kids. She also says she started dating somebody a month after she filed the divorce papers.

 

[turaj]

Certainly glad Charlie did not get a bond as he would have been bailed out quickly and on a plane to Thailand.