GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #18

[B4igo2it]

IMO WA didn't need much pressuring from DA to want to get rid of DM. After all she never had that physical spark with him to begin with him by her own admission. Was she even in love with him? I doubt it.(Her affair with JL is an example of how she can use a man for her own purpose)So that again brings up the question of why she even married him. All I can see reflected in WA's eyes are $ signs and prestige as to where she thought his career was heading.

I agree, and DM has good genes.

 

[jennyjenny]

Think how scary it would be for a kid to find stuff out, or even to think about it. This is their mom and grandma. I doubt they want to know. Too scary. What would they do? Their whole world would collapse. They need their mom, they’re not going to go looking.

fwiw ... my 21yr old son is of the same opinion. Interesting POV from a budding adult.

 

[Odeto BJ]

CA and DA had their phones tapped in March 2016; the Bump was in April 2016. Agent Sanford testified in 2018 at the trial of SG + KM that those were the only relevant phone taps applied. There was slightly different content from the phone conversations presented in 2022 when KM was retried...

I have never heard of a specific date when the recording of conversations were discontinued; the original warrant does have an expiry but given what it yielded withing hours of the Bump, I believe it would readily be renewed if there was any demonstrable indication that more evidence of a capital crime could be forthcoming.

So in October 2023 a much larger fraction of the phone tap recordings were revealed in CA's trial but CA was arrested in 2019 so presumably, phone recordings would have terminated by that time...At least as it applied to CA. The latest date of phone exchange presented in the trial of CA was, IIRC, in early 2017.

So the questions: Is it possible that the FBI had been recording DA after 2017? Or even after CA was arrested? (that event would certainly represent another stimulation for exchange for the Adelson conspirers and their counsel...just like the Bump) Is it possible there may be recordings for DA and WA conversations between 2018 and 2019 and possibly even later? Could LE have gotten a warrant for WA's phone after 2018? I certainly believe they could have, that establishing potential probative value would have been simple enough.

If so: the whole Direct Examination of WA during the October trial was portion of a 3-D Chess Match and WA may very easily have perjured herself and LE has the means to prove that. Use immunity may already have been sacrificed....

JMO, MOO and entirely speculative.

 

[Zedzded]

Why did DA wash the $$?

 

[iamshadow21]

Why did DA wash the $$?

The theory out there is the money came from the dental practice and she was removing fingerprints of her, other family members, or her employees from the cash.

MOO

 

[Zedzded]

The theory out there is the money came from the dental practice and she was removing fingerprints of her, other family members, or her employees from the cash.

MOO

Anyone know if that actually works?? I think I'd heard it was mouldy or something.

 

[Odeto BJ]

KM testified that as it came out of CA's home safe, it was damp and smelled mouldy. I have no idea how effective putting money through a clothes washer or a dishwasher is in removing or obfuscating fingerprints.

Apparently there was not enough time to run it through the drier, or drying cycle, as applicable. LOL

 

[cottonweaver]

Donna and Harvey are from NY, they settled in Coral Springs after they got married. That accent is not uncommon in South Florida.

On the topic of origins....
Didn't somebody on TV mention that Donna has a sister she's estranged from/not close to?

Bet there's a backstory to this dysfunction ( married couple deliberately moving far away yet Donna was so adamant she wanted her own kids/ grand kids around her)

 

[cottonweaver]

KM testified that as it came out of CA's home safe, it was damp and smelled mouldy. I have no idea how effective putting money through a clothes washer or a dishwasher is in removing or obfuscating fingerprints.

Apparently there was not enough time to run it through the drier, or drying cycle, as applicable. LOL

Maybe one of them used an autoclave? ( In one of the dental labs after hours?)
Saturated steam?

You wouldn't need to remove the staples this way
example:

 

[clearskies1]

CA and DA had their phones tapped in March 2016; the Bump was in April 2016. Agent Sanford testified in 2018 at the trial of SG + KM that those were the only relevant phone taps applied. There was slightly different content from the phone conversations presented in 2022 when KM was retried...

I have never heard of a specific date when the recording of conversations were discontinued; the original warrant does have an expiry but given what it yielded withing hours of the Bump, I believe it would readily be renewed if there was any demonstrable indication that more evidence of a capital crime could be forthcoming.

So in October 2023 a much larger fraction of the phone tap recordings were revealed in CA's trial but CA was arrested in 2019 so presumably, phone recordings would have terminated by that time...At least as it applied to CA. The latest date of phone exchange presented in the trial of CA was, IIRC, in early 2017.

So the questions: Is it possible that the FBI had been recording DA after 2017? Or even after CA was arrested? (that event would certainly represent another stimulation for exchange for the Adelson conspirers and their counsel...just like the Bump) Is it possible there may be recordings for DA and WA conversations between 2018 and 2019 and possibly even later? Could LE have gotten a warrant for WA's phone after 2018? I certainly believe they could have, that establishing potential probative value would have been simple enough.

If so: the whole Direct Examination of WA during the October trial was portion of a 3-D Chess Match and WA may very easily have perjured herself and LE has the means to prove that. Use immunity may already have been sacrificed....

JMO, MOO and entirely speculative.

@Odeto BJ -- the phones that were tapped were CA's and KM's (BBM):

"Background: To trigger conversations between key conspirators, a sting operation was initiated in April 2016 in which an undercover FBI agent would pose as an ally of accomplice Luis Rivera and “bump” Donna Adelson with what would be presented to her to be a blackmail attempt related to her family’s involvement in Markel’s murder. A wiretap warrant for Charlie and Katie’s phones was approved to be in effect for a period just before and for about one month after this operation. The effort worked. After the undercover “bump,” Donna first called Charlie, telling him that she was given “paperwork” related to an “ex-girlfriend” — saying, “I think you’ll have a good idea what I’m talking about,” but with no mention of Katie’s name whatsoever. Despite being a prolific dater with multiple ex-girlfriends since Katie, Charlie proceeds to only call Katie about the matter, who then calls her baby daddy and sometimes-partner, convicted shooter, Sigfredo Garcia. Hundreds of calls were intercepted, many of which provided incriminating and revelatory information about the conspiracy and its participants."

On Dan Markel’s 51st birthday, new judge makes pivotal rulings in his murder case

There are a few big questions yet to be determined.

floridapolitics.com

 

[Odeto BJ]

Maybe one of them used an autoclave? ( In one of the dental labs after hours?)
Saturated steam?

You wouldn't need to remove the staples this way

Sure could be. Though you would think it would not be so prone to growing mould coming out of an autoclave....
For fingerprints or "touch" DNA I don't know what would be most effective. If tumbled in a clothes drier you would think skin particles at least would be shook free; though making neat stacks could be a challenge. Thus the staples? LOL

 

[cottonweaver]

Sure could be. Though you would think it would not be so prone to growing mould coming out of an autoclave....
For fingerprints or "touch" DNA I don't know what would be most effective. If tumbled in a clothes drier you would think skin particles at least would be shook free; though making neat stacks could be a challenge. Thus the staples? LOL

IDK how long the steam saturating & drying phases are per different autoclaves but whatever method they used, we already know they were careless in processing it- if we want to accept KM's evidence. ( Her evidence of insufficiently-dried notes placed in a zip lock)

So it's either notes which hadn't completed cycles or moisture inside a bag.
I can't help but conclude that somebody was in a rush at some point in the $ handover & prep, whether in June or July ( the two trips) and we already established that they're not master criminals executing the perfect murder, lots of elements were half-assed.

The evidence is that CA had a long-held habit of stapling money ( No evidence given on whether he learned this from a parent who had the same habit)

BTW It was Katie's speculation - in 2nd proffer - that Donna ' washed the money' but it could equally be Charlie who tried to wash it or his portion.

 

[Odeto BJ]

@Odeto BJ -- the phones that were tapped were CA's and KM's (BBM):

Trimmed by Me.

You are correct: it was KM's phone that was recorded not DA's. DA was heard on the recordings because she was talking to Charlie and his phone was tapped. So at least through 2018 DA's participation on the phone recordings was limited to conversations between her and CA. DA had no contact with KM throughout. Which means: In spite of her obvious trepidations following the Bump in 2016, her phone was not tapped at least through 2018...per Sanford under oath.

My bad....

 

[amicuscurie]

KM testified that as it came out of CA's home safe, it was damp and smelled mouldy. I have no idea how effective putting money through a clothes washer or a dishwasher is in removing or obfuscating fingerprints.

Apparently there was not enough time to run it through the drier, or drying cycle, as applicable. LOL

Unbelievable that they thought FINGERPRINTS ON THE MONEY would be how they got caught.

 

[Florida_marlin]

I think the one smart thing CA, DA and WA did is to ensure WA was out of the loop. She was aware of what was happening, but zero communication about the murder with her as they would have been aware she'd be the default prime suspect.

I believe they thought the investigators would start at Wendi and work out. Once finding nothing where she had arranged a murder, they thought they would move on. Thought insulating her and the extra degrees of separation with KM would by too complicated for poor old Tally LE to unwind. Really a bunch of naive, overly self-confident, arrogant miscreants.

 

[cottonweaver]

Vinnie was on fire last night! It was a great segment. Tonight he is having Ruth Markel on.

Thanks for the recommend

Just watched it - really strong show all round.
Lots of interesting points from each guest and Vinnie P

BTW Re that retired LEO, I'd never heard of the '3 whites of the eyes 'thing before - puts a new interpretation on Wendi's Bambi look. ( Also nice catch from him on Wendi's testimony ' ...but if it had have been a celebration dinner....' )

BTW If anybody still thinks Tim Jansen has been hired by Wendi, surely after watching that they'll realise how silly they sound?

 

[cottonweaver]

Unbelievable that they thought FINGERPRINTS ON THE MONEY would be how they got caught.

reminds me of the contrast between-
The envelope: Charlie warning Katie he's used gloves, not licked the seal & used a different printer
and
Know-it-all Adelsons entrusting murder commission to a friend of a friend resulting in the involvement of Dumb & Dumber

 

[nodamselindistress]

Loved Vinnie's show Tuesday night, as well. He kept talking about how strange that the ADULT DAUGHTER Wendi needed so much help and direction from her mother/parents, something I have always thought really strange.

 

[DeDee]

Yep. It's curtains for Donna. She is 73 now -- 20 years gets her to 93!

That is just fine that she'll age while in prison. I'm interested in her defense strategy. Someone mentioned a plea deal in order to avoid a televised trial the grandchildren could see her as the accused and she may not want that.

How old was DA when Dan was murdered on June 19, 2014? How old was she when the plan to buy or kill Dan formed over 10 years ago?

Wendi comes away from this well-off. One brother is in prison. She's estranged from the other brother, RA. Her mother is in prison. Her father is elderly and the incarceration of his beloved may push him into a 6' under grave. WA inherits everything not established for the grandchildren as DA mentioned in the ph call with CA. Did Wendi plan for everybody to be disposed of so she would acquire millionaire status without working for it? Nah. She's not that calculating, is she?

 

[Missyrocks5]

Where on earth did you get this? And Gary is there, too? He has really been their friend a long time.

ETA- why does her voice sound so different?

This is wild. Who is Gary?