GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #18

[Gypsy Road]

There was a heresay objection by the prosecution. It was an exhibit though.

Maybe it was a “fake” or questionable or even “manufactured after the fact” invitation lol

 

[vislaw]

It was an exhibit. However, there was a heresay objection by the Prosecution. So, does that mean that even though it was an exhibit, discussing it was not allowed because it was considered heresay?

Counsel must mark as an exhibit anything that is used in court so that the record on appeal is clear what exhibit is involved. If an exhibit is offered, but not admitted into evidence, the attorneys are not to refer to it in front of the jury. If an exhibit is purely demonstrative, such as a diagram, it may be shown to the jury, but ordinarily will not be submitted to the jury to use during deliberations. In theory, only substantive exhibits properly admitted into evidence may be used in the jury room. We’ve seen some courts relax this rule to allow all demonstrative exhibits to go into the jury room. It depends upon the jurisdiction. I did not see the objection to the flyer, and I am a bit puzzled, because it would not seem to be hearsay under the rule.

 

[amicuscurie]

I was curious about her upbringing as well.

Was there any discussion of DA's upbringing in the book, "Extreme Punishment: The Chilling True Story of Acclaimed Law Professor Dan Markel's Murder," by Stephen B. Epstein? I think @amicuscurie has read that book, if I am not mistaken.

No, just that she came from New York, met Harvey there, that’s it. There’s a little bit more on the Markels and how they came to Canada from Europe and how Ruth was very close to her uncle (owner of the Holocaust Diamond). There’s stuff about Dan and Wendi and their growing up, but not a lot of deep psychological insight on the Adelson family dynamics, which I have heard described elsewhere as “enmeshed.” THAT would be a book I would like to read. STS tonight is going to have psychological experts talking about the A family.

 

[ch_13]

Maybe it was a “fake” or questionable or even “manufactured after the fact” invitation lol

What would be the point of that? The police would naturally be following up on the invite and confirming it with the hosts and the other party guests. I doubt there are 20+ people in Tallahassee who would willingly conspire to lie for WA.

 

[amicuscurie]

What would be the point of that? The police would naturally be following up on the invite and confirming it with the hosts and the other party guests. I doubt there are 20+ people in Tallahassee who would willingly conspire to lie for WA.

I’m with you. The invitation is real, no reason to believe it isn’t.

 

[Florida_marlin]

So true! I live further west in the panhandle and earned my Bachelor of Science from FSU years ago. It’s a totally different world up here than S Fla. - COMPLETELY different world! Lots of farm land and rural areas once you leave the city I live in. Definitely the Bible Belt can be felt here. Lots of sidewalk preachers yelling on the street corners (I am assuming mostly of the Baptist faith - Southern Baptist is huge around here. Fire and brimstone Baptist.

Exactly. When people mention the “Bible Belt” they’re not talking about the Catholic Church. This is the area in the Southern and some Midwestern US that was largely settled by members of the various Protestant faiths. Indeed, many Protestant adherents did and still do like to emphasize that they are very much “Bible Based” in their faith and not “tradition Based”. Thus, the term “Bible Belt“ came to be long ago.

 

[cottonweaver]

Trial 2 -- 2022. Starting at 1:08:00 -- Georgia shows Wendi a page of her cell phone data from the morning of the murder -- information that was deleted from Wendi's phone before she turned her phone over to police that afternoon.

also at, your link, at 1 hr 13 mins, she states she had made a 'last minute plan to have lunch

but on July 18th 2014 with Isom, she kind of alerted when Isom said ' last minute' when he referenced her lunch date.

at 21 minutes 18 secs:

 

[clearskies1]

also at, your link, at 1 hr 13 mins, she states she had made a 'last minute plan to have lunch

but on July 18th 2014 with Isom, she kind of alerted when Isom said ' last minute' when he referenced her lunch date.

at 21 minutes 18 secs:

Interesting. I did notice the "last minute" lunch plan in her trial testimony. The repair guy came and left early... IIRC Georgia asked if she left her home that day and she responded with all this stuff about she did at her house, including last minute lunch plans, before she left.

 

[geevee]

I watched LR's proffer a few days ago and he said for the 1st trip to Tally SG was given 5 grand (for 'expenses', which they spent on gas, motel and drugs/alcohol) and for the 2nd trip he thought it was 2 grand. I would suppose those monies came from CA to KM to SG, does anyone remember KM being asked about that during CA's trial?

I don't recall much being said about the details of the 1st trip, if that money was also in stapled $1000. increments, etc. Maybe it was and I wasn't paying attention to it since I hadn't seen his proffer video yet, just curious if she ever gave any more details about it. I hesitate to plow through her proffer videos since from what I've heard it's quite the investment in patience. lol

 

[ch_13]

Exactly. When people mention the “Bible Belt” they’re not talking about the Catholic Church. This is the area in the Southern and some Midwestern US that was largely settled by members of the various Protestant faiths. Indeed, many Protestant adherents did and still do like to emphasize that they are very much “Bible Based” in their faith and not “tradition Based”. Thus, the term “Bible Belt“ came to be long ago.

I would say that most non-Christians do not have much knowledge about the differences between the various sects and denominations of Christianity. Just like most Christians would not have a great deal of understanding of Reform vs. Conservative vs. Orthodox Judaism. (Or the various schools of Buddhism or the divide between Shia and Sunni Muslims.)

Since DA was from S. Florida she was likely more familiar with Catholicism than the various Bible Belt churches so that's why she made the comment that she did. In any case, she didn't really care about the religious aspect or the kids' well-being, she just wanted to piss off Dan Markel.

 

[Gypsy Road]

What would be the point of that? The police would naturally be following up on the invite and confirming it with the hosts and the other party guests. I doubt there are 20+ people in Tallahassee who would willingly conspire to lie for WA.

You never know with the Adelson’s. These people lie so much, do shady things with their money, hire hitmen. I wouldn’t put anything thing past them. Not sure why Georgia keeps bringing up the bourbon and brand in each trial, but she does. She makes Wendi tell the jury the brand. If it was nothing, I’m not sure why she’d bring it up each and every trial.

 

[cottonweaver]

I watched LR's proffer a few days ago and he said for the 1st trip to Tally SG was given 5 grand (for 'expenses', which they spent on gas, motel and drugs/alcohol) and for the 2nd trip he thought it was 2 grand. I would suppose those monies came from CA to KM to SG, does anyone remember KM being asked about that during CA's trial?

I don't recall much being said about the details of the 1st trip, if that money was also in stapled $1000. increments, etc. Maybe it was and I wasn't paying attention to it since I hadn't seen his proffer video yet, just curious if she ever gave any more details about it. I hesitate to plow through her proffer videos since from what I've heard it's quite the investment in patience. lol

I don't recall KM being asked about that during Trial 3.

I expect that might be because at her 2022 proffers, KM made contradictory, vague & minimising statements.
For example, at the first proffer interview she thought that for the first trip expenses she'd been given around $500 to pass on to SG.

KM also said that for the second trip in July SG told her ‘ I need money again to go into town’

ETA:
There are other instances in the proffer where - to me- it's believable that she's forgotten some things & wasn't told others.
Plus imo, she's been in denial of her own nature since 2013 too

 

[geevee]

I don't recall KM being asked about that during Trial 3.

I expect that might be because at her 2022 proffers, KM made contradictory, vague & minimising statements.
For example, at the first proffer interview she thought that for the first trip expenses she'd been given around $500 to pass on to SG.

KM also said that for the second trip in July SG told her ‘ I need money again to go into town’

The proffers are on MentourLawyer's channel. ( I don't know if he's uploaded proffer 3 yet so KM's story may have changed_

Okay, thanks Cottonweaver, probably I'll watch her 3rd proffer whenever it's posted to see what she says. I'm watching LR's testimony now in trial 1 while waiting for the Murdaugh hearing to get underway.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I’m with you. The invitation is real, no reason to believe it isn’t.

The invitation is real, the question about whether the invitation specifically asked Wendi to purchase Bulliet bourbon is the issue. The stock-the-bar party was for her friend Elizabeth (who, like a few others like Tova Walsh and Jane - are inexplicably fiercely on "Team Wendi" still in 2023).

I suspect all the infighting between the prosecution and defense on this is because there is likely some suggestion (e.g., an email from Elizabeth maybe?) after the murder confirming that Wendi was asked to buy that specific bottle. If it was black and white, the prosecution would never bring it up and the defense would present this as Exhibit 1 evidence that the State is so obsessed with the Adelsons that they will use anything to prove their conspiracy theory. But its not black and white. Its grey. And the Defense was not able to get whatever post-facto confirmation in...so Charlie sneakily used it in response to a question he wasn't being asked about.

 

[alexwood]

So we've gone from murder as a divorce present (TV) to a birthday present???

Yeah. Wasn't there only one of Dan Markel? Only one murder -- but to serve as a celebration in commemoration of two "special occasions."

 

[cottonweaver]

Also, remember that in in Isom interview, a few hours after purchasing the licquor she told Isom that she'd had a whole conversation with the ABC assistant as to what type of licqour she should buy because she isn't au fait with alcohol or words to that effect. ( IMO you don't need to get advice if the brand is stipulated as a host request)

At 8 mins in the video I posted on the previous WS page
@Blue Shakehead

 

[turaj]

My family is originally from Alabama and I can assure you there are more Baptist & other Protestant churches than Catholic, especially in the southern part of the state.

Catholic was picked by DA for no reason other than the most offensive to DM or so she thought. It shows her thought process. WA is guilty of much but one redeeming point in her favor is she did not go with any of the ideas actually put in writing to WA. DA was incredibly stupid and who is the first person CA called after his conviction DA...many calls.

 

[turaj]

You never know with the Adelson’s. These people lie so much, do shady things with their money, hire hitmen. I wouldn’t put anything thing past them. Not sure why Georgia keeps bringing up the bourbon and brand in each trial, but she does. She makes Wendi tell the jury the brand. If it was nothing, I’m not sure why she’d bring it up each and every trial.

Georgia does not ask one single question without a purpose...been that way in all trials. Sometimes we have to wait a long time to put it together but boy is she smart.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

So we've gone from murder as a divorce present (TV) to a birthday present???

Right. The Adelsons bizarre and sadistic murder code is not the easiest to follow. I think the chronology goes "TV" > "Harvey's 70th bday present" > "TV".

Fall of 2012: Charlie buys Wendi a TV as a divorce present because it was "cheaper than hiring a hitman".

Summer of 2013: Wendi tells Lacasse that Charlie looked into all options to solve the Danny Markel problem, including having him killed. An inmate at Leon County serving time with Sigfredo said Sigfredo made a similar suggestion and that the 2013 hitmen may have just run off with the money.

March of 2014: Donna on her way back from Tally and is texting Charlie. Says she will call him once she has privacy to talk about Harvey's 70th bday present. Asks him to delete the text and then calls him from Panera Bread bathroom in Gainesville. This is 4 months before Harvey's birthday.

June 6 of 2014 (day after Sigfredo/Luis Rivera's first failed murder trip): Charlie texts Donna that he is still working on Harvey's birthday gift. Donna responds saying she knows he will come through.

June 11 - 18: Wendi's TV gets busted. Lacasse says likely with a fist or an object and extremely unlikely to be caused by 3 or 4 year old. Despite offering to purchase her a new one several times, she refused. He tries to hook up DVD on other TV so kids could watch movies, and she adamantly refused. She told Lacasse that only Best Buy could deal with it because its under warranty. Kids are then forced to watch TV for next month on distorted and shattered TV.

July 5: Harvey's 70th bday party. Paella is served. Charlie says at trial that the present was the catering and paella chef but Georgia seems to have evidence that it was Wendi who was talking to the caterer. Dan Markel is not dead yet. Need a new code.

July 6th: Wendi texts Dan from her parents condo in Miami to confirm that Dan will be in town July 13-18

July 18: Donna confirms TV appointment with Best Buy and tells Wendi to confirm with them if she can't make it. She texts Charlie (not Donna) "This is so sweet". TV guy comes and tells her its not fixable but instead of relying on repairman's professional advice she immediately calls Charlie and talks for 18 minutes about "whether she should fix it or replace it", which is nonsense.

April 19 2016: Donna is approached by fake Latin Kings about Dan Markels murder asking for 5k to help out one of the hitmen. Donna tells Charlie "This TV will cost about 5"

 

[apeXperience]

I would not write down Wendi and Harvey as of yet. There is the hierarchy of homicide acts available to the State: a) first-degree murder and felony murder, b) second-degree murder, c) third-degree murder which is split into 5 categories (voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide, and justifiable homicide) in some states.

We do not know the totality of what the State and the FBI know already (Wendi and Donna were both labeled as not-indicted co-conspirators in 2022), and what else they are pursuing (the investigation continues, so sayeth Georgia).

IMHO, there are enough circumstantial evidences of Wendi’s foreknowledge (Jeffrey’s testimony), planning (disclosure Dan Markel’s itinerary to Charlie and Katie), and culpable activities (surveying the crime scene, proactively staging detailed alibi, etc). In totality, “Dan Markel’s murder is about Wendi”, according to Chris DeCoste. Perhaps, more materials against Wendi could avail from the coming proceeding of Donna, enough to fall back in the second-degree murder (10 to 20 years) if the first-degree felony is unattainable.

One of the arguments for rescinding the Donna and Harvey’s Subpoena to appear at Miami FBI office was that the writ to compel their testimony with use and derivative use immunity could weaken future prosecution. Ergo, the idea of future prosecution of Harvey has currency. Some acquaintances (e.g. Tamara Demko) felt uneasiness toward Harvey the very week following Dan’s murder. IMHO, potential conviction for third-degree voluntary manslaughter (5 to 10 years) could be in store for Harvey within a couple of years down the road.