GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

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I know I said this already but listening now again and I’m just really bowled over by how disinterested, incurious and insincere Donna and Harvey seem talking to Charlie! He’s just been convicted, life without parole in prison is guaranteed. And this is it?? Any mothers wanna fill me in! What the heck? Am I crazy? He does most of the talking. Long silences from Donna as he’s talking. And when she does talk it’s mostly platitudes. As a mother, I would think she’d be trying to reassure him, repeatedly tell him she loves him and will be there for him, repeatedly tell him she will be there to visit him soon, repeatedly tell him they will fight this/appeal, etc. Maybe she does in other calls. I dunno.

MOO
She does say some things like this, but to me she mostly focuses on how the jury was stupid. She tells him she’s going to make sure his son and dog are taken care of, that he can always call them. But meanwhile, we know she is making plans to leave.
 
Charlie and Donna dissect “reasonable doubt” hahaha CAUTION: Great legal minds at work! Do not cross.

Charlie mocks Georgia “ladies and gentlemen, use your common sense oh my god” lol

This is embarrassing!
I like when she says it’s not fair that the state gets to go first AND last. She doesnt appear to understand that it works that way because the state has the burden of proof, which is the more difficult role, and so they get two chances. They seem to think he just had to show any alternate explanation in order to ”win,“ and they seem to think the alternate explanation should be the last thing the jury hears. They say repeatedly that there was “no evidence,” and then proceed to discuss the actual evidence and say it doesn’t prove anything. I love the apparent fixation on Wendi’s book and how he says that has nothing to do with the case. (After all, HE didnt write the book right?) I also like when Donna asks him if “for the appeal,” he can do it “somewhere else,” like not in Tallahassee. She says “I don’t see why not.” Does she think an appeal is an actual second trial, and he can just move for a change of venue for that one? Or just choose where to do it? News flash, you have to file the appeal in the same jurisdiction where the trial court was. It’s not another trial, you’re literally appealing to a higher court to look at what the lower court did. you can’t just pick any old court to look at it.
 
We hear that WA has a new boyfriend. Again, it really is a good analysis of her potentially appealing to a jury if she ends up being at the defendant's table because how would any man want anything to do with her? How charismatic is she to still get men? How is it possible that people could not look at the facts of this case, see her family in jail, and still think this is a great woman for me?
The fact that she got a new boyfriend shouldn't sway any jury. Male murderers manage to attract new females all the time. These people either don't know the details, have been lied to, or think that they are different and it won't happen to them. Co-dependent Enablers.
 
Listening to these calls - wow - they just blow me away. Charlie cannot believe his life is over and he cannot see his son grow up ---boo hoo. So, I guess it has not crossed his mind that Dan did not get to see his sons grow up. At least Charlie can see his son by visitation; photos; letters. Dan's sons got their father taken away forever.

Hearing Charlie discuss how "bad" the state was in their closing - and how she "dumbed it down to a third grade level"....all I could think was "what trial were you at?" I will NEVER get over that he actually thought his defense was reasonable - reasonable enough that 12 people would vote not guilty!

Justice for Dan. "Today is a GOOD day."

MOO, MOO, MOO.
 
She does say some things like this, but to me she mostly focuses on how the jury was stupid. She tells him she’s going to make sure his son and dog are taken care of, that he can always call them. But meanwhile, we know she is making plans to leave.
Translation: The jury may have been stupid, but I'm not going to be as stupid as you were Charlie, and risk facing one myself.
 
Re the call with CA's BabyMomma.

Anybody agree with me that it's irresponsible to bring the son to the jail for visits? ( considering how little CA had spent with his son and the child support battles previously) This meets Charlie's needs, he says he really wants that, but how does it help the child?

Feels to me like another example of a child being exploited to meet an adult's needs
 
Listening to these calls - wow - they just blow me away. Charlie cannot believe his life is over and he cannot see his son grow up ---boo hoo. So, I guess it has not crossed his mind that Dan did not get to see his sons grow up. At least Charlie can see his son by visitation; photos; letters. Dan's sons got their father taken away forever.

Hearing Charlie discuss how "bad" the state was in their closing - and how she "dumbed it down to a third grade level"....all I could think was "what trial were you at?" I will NEVER get over that he actually thought his defense was reasonable - reasonable enough that 12 people would vote not guilty!

Justice for Dan. "Today is a GOOD day."

MOO, MOO, MOO.
So, like, if the jury had been smarter they would’ve voted differently? Is that what he’s saying? The fact that even “dumb” people found him guilty should give him pause, in my opinion.
 
Here's the full call - she's posting all of the calls separately on her page!
Starting at about 13:00, DA seems to be saying that she discussed with Rashbaum her plans to head to the airport and flee the country. I don't think DA was breaking any laws by planning to leave the country given that she hadn't been charged at that point, so I don't think Rashbaum can be accused of helping her commit a crime (which obviously lawyers can't do). But still a very bad look for him.
 
The only thing that Charlie regrets is that he didn’t follow his gut instinct. I take that to mean he thought of fleeing but didn’t do it. JMO
I've not heard all the calls but the first call I heard where CA repeatedly says he should have trusted his gut, I thought this was about believing his lawyer that he had a chance of being exonerated and would be going home. He's disappointed that he bought into the idea when his gut said different. It was false hope-- he gave away his food and commissary, thinking he was going home! JMO
 
Starting at about 13:00, DA seems to be saying that she discussed with Rashbaum her plans to head to the airport and flee the country. I don't think DA was breaking any laws by planning to leave the country given that she hadn't been charged at that point, so I don't think Rashbaum can be accused of helping her commit a crime (which obviously lawyers can't do). But still a very bad look for him.
Bad that he didn’t tell his client, IMO. There are so many conflicts with this common defense, it’s ridiculous. And I think if you have a criminal client who is trying to flee, you have an obligation to advise them not to, as it would show consciousness of guilt. Any lawyers here can confirm that? Donna says Rash just told her she might not make it out on time.

this whole call is really incriminating, IMO. Why is she leaving in such a hurry and making all these plans if she had nothing to do with this? Why is she concerned she will not make it out in time?
 
I've not heard all the calls but the first call I heard where CA repeatedly says he should have trusted his gut, I thought this was about believing his lawyer that he had a chance of being exonerated and would be going home. He's disappointed that he bought into the idea when his gut said different. It was false hope-- he gave away his food and commissary, thinking he was going home! JMO
Why doesnt he trust that same gut now, and try to make a deal?
 
Oh wow, the incriminating phone call which lead to DA's arrest didn't really take place with Charlie at all. They didn't hang up. I can hardly believe it.
Wendi threatening to have her Mum committed is very cold. She has jumped right off that sinking ship. I cannot see any other path for her than long term estrangement from her parents and brother. I think she will also "protect" her sons but severing contact. Years too late of course, but that's going to hurt. The ultimate abandonment.
 
Oh wow, the incriminating phone call which lead to DA's arrest didn't really take place with Charlie at all. They didn't hang up. I can hardly believe it.
Wendi threatening to have her Mum committed is very cold. She has jumped right off that sinking ship. I cannot see any other path for her than long term estrangement from her parents and brother. I think she will also "protect" her sons but severing contact. Years too late of course, but that's going to hurt. The ultimate abandonment.
I did hear that she has been spending time with Harvey. He doesn’t tend to talk on the phone as much, I think, so she might feel differently about maintaining a relationship with him.
 
Starting at about 13:00, DA seems to be saying that she discussed with Rashbaum her plans to head to the airport and flee the country. I don't think DA was breaking any laws by planning to leave the country given that she hadn't been charged at that point, so I don't think Rashbaum can be accused of helping her commit a crime (which obviously lawyers can't do). But still a very bad look for him.
Actually lawyers can, even though they risk their own licenses. That's why Rudy Guiliani, John Eastman, Kenneth Cheseboro, and Sidney Clark are all in legal hot water.
 
Why doesnt he trust that same gut now, and try to make a deal?
Is this unique to Florida where convicted inmates/felons get to make a deal after the fact? I didn't understand this with KM and her (worthless) proffer and now with CA? Also, when Judge Everett rendered CA's sentences served consecutive and not concurrent, that was the discretion of the Court. As a sitting Justice, I'd be furious if my verdict tampered with outside of an appellate ruling. MOO
 
Oh wow, the incriminating phone call which lead to DA's arrest didn't really take place with Charlie at all. They didn't hang up. I can hardly believe it.
Wendi threatening to have her Mum committed is very cold. She has jumped right off that sinking ship. I cannot see any other path for her than long term estrangement from her parents and brother. I think she will also "protect" her sons but severing contact. Years too late of course, but that's going to hurt. The ultimate abandonment.
Although this may be an unpopular view, I think threatening to Baker Act Donna is the one good thing that Wendi did. Call her bluff on the obvious manipulation tactic. If Donna really were suicidal, it's what you'd want to do to save a person. In California, it has a different name- it's 5150'ing them, which is the number of the statute. My next door neighbor had to do it in the middle of the night when her husband really was feeling suicidal and had a gun. The police came to my door to see if I had a key. (I did) And he got taken to the local psych hospital.
 
Although this may be an unpopular view, I think threatening to Baker Act Donna is the one good thing that Wendi did. Call her bluff on the obvious manipulation tactic. If Donna really were suicidal, it's what you'd want to do to save a person. In California, it has a different name- it's 5150'ing them, which is the number of the statute. My next door neighbor had to do it in the middle of the night when her husband really was feeling suicidal and had a gun. The police came to my door to see if I had a key. (I did) And he got taken to the local psych hospital.
In my opinion she didn’t do it to call her bluff, she did it as a threat to keep her quiet. According to Donna, she has never just come over in the 9 years they’ve lived here and suddenly she does, to talk about Baker Acting her. It suggests to me that it was important. And, according to Donna, she had never actually threatened suicide at the point when Wendi did this, which was during the trial. According to Donna, Wendi seems to have just concluded Donna was suicidal based on something she said during the trial about not wanting to see Charlie convicted.
 
The audio was awful and unintelligible in many places. From what I could hear, I deduced that Wendy did not contact her parents on the day of the verdict or after the verdict nor did she go to see her parents in person. This upset them. They also seemed upset that Wendy has not once asked about her brother since his incarceration. In fact, Wendy told her parents that Charlie's problems are his own doing and that they need to stop projecting anger at her as she has nothing to do with his choices and it is not her fault that her truthful testimony with the police and at trial did not fare well for Charlie. It really sounded like Grandma and Grandpa feel they are not as needed by Wendy now that the kids are grown up and that she has distanced herself from them. In fact, it does not sound like she made herself available to them at all after the verdict although they wanted to talk to her about the extradition countries and wills, and cemetery plot and other "business" she would not call them back. Sounded like DA/HA were speaking to her through "George" -- they asked "George" about the boys and specifically if Wendy told the boys about Charlie's conviction. I have no idea who George is.

I'm not going for it. DA and even HA knew those jail calls were being recorded. And for sure CA knew also. I think everything that was said and revealed was in order to protect WA in the long run. Another tangled web those low life's wove together .
 
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