FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #14

[Ferpo]

No documented SG movement yet from Raiford but he does have a new photo.

 

[Sustained]

Stupid people who are plotting a murder and think they won’t get caught.

You would have to be comatose to not see that the entire A family is complicit in Dan's murder.

With any luck, the unindicted conspirators will become indicted conspirators soon.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

so crazy and unlucky for Charlie that this elaborate Magbanua extortion plot was not mentioned once in the hours of recorded conversations. If Charlie was getting extorted, wouldn’t he want the police bugging his/Donna’s house and recording his calls? They could exonerate him! Why talk in code and meet in public places with your family?

Then Katie and the killers are arrested. Free at last!!! The hapless victim Charlie went straight to police to tell them what happened and he agreed to testify against them obviously, right? No. Charlie sat at home through 2 trials and 6 years after their arrests and never uttered a single word. Until today. At least Wendi finally has the answers to the questions she never asked.

 

[Weki]

WA's voice is wavery when GC asks WA about who attended her father's 70th Birthday.
She can't say if KM was there........

( KM has told GC she was there? GC sure seems to know a lot of detail about that birthday from somebody )

eta

GC ' Was the murder of DM the big gift for your father's birthday?'
WA ' Of course not!'
Expression as she replies: View attachment 456093

This is the first time that I can recall this bday trip was brought up and the state suggested that the gift for Harvey was the murder plot!! I was also thinking only KM could’ve told them that! Had to be!

 

[Snacky]

This is the first time that I can recall this bday trip was brought up and the state suggested that the gift for Harvey was the murder plot!! I was also thinking only KM could’ve told them that! Had to be!

Agreed. Info from Katie's proffer?

 

[cujenn81]

If Katie came to Charlie the night of the murder and said she knew who killed Dan, and tried to blackmail him, he should have gone right to the police, and she should’ve also. And even if he didn’t immediately, he should have gone to them once the blackmailers were arrested. He should’ve said “I can help. I know these people did it, and they blackmailed me.” Yes, he might have had to plead to obstruction or accessory after the fact, but he would’ve gotten a deal. And he would’ve helped put away the bad guys that took away his nephews’ dad! But he and his family weren’t talking.

Throwing Wendi under the bus is a pretty good strategy, because I don‘t believe there is enough evidence against her to arrest or try her. (I know some disagree. I know what Lacasse said, I know about the TV repair and the bourbon.) I’m just talking here about the legal standard for conspiracy and murder for hire. You have to show 1. that she solicited the murder and 2. that she paid for it. There is no evidence, direct or circumstantial, that I’ve seen that shows either. We don’t have phone calls between her and the killers or payments to link her to the killers. They know this. They may believe it is a win-win to pin it on the empty chair. Would a brother do this to a sister? Not sure. But perhaps if they thought it wasn’t much of a risk. Again, I know some disagree. There is plenty suspicious about her conduct and her motives, no question.

Pinning it on Katie serves a similar purpose. She is already convicted and incarcerated, so nothing worse can happen to her. Are they going to argue that she did, in fact, know about it and was lying to and also blackmailing Charlie? Because there is plenty of evidence that suggests she knew. She rented the car, she talked to them on the phone during the crime. Bet she is wishing she had cooperated about now. Does she know this is their defense? Is she part of it?

Is the defense going to call her to testify? She and Charlie are the only two people on earth who can testify as to what she told him the night of the murder, and how she allegedly extorted him. The opening statements kept saying “you will hear” about this. I don’t see how they will hear about it unless they hear it from her. But Katie did speak at length to the state. The defense theory likely contradicts what she told them. it’s doubtful she confessed to them that the killers did this without her knowledge. She can’t now get on the stand and say that.

So does that mean the state has to call Charlie?

That’s just typical lawyer speak during an opening statement. You will hear this happened. You will hear my client wrote checks to that person. That’s just how attorneys structure their arguments. They make preemptive statements based on what they expect the jury to learn during trial in an effort to lessen its impact and then try to spin it in a way that paints their client the best light possible.

This sounds crazy but it’s kinda like Eminem’s final rap battle in the movie, 8 Mile. Eminem leaves his opponent speechless by preemptively pointing out everything negative the guy could possibly say about him. You know? I AM white trash. I DO still live at home in a trailer with my mom and her redneck boyfriend. My buddy IS stupid enough to shoot himself in the leg. Your buddies DID jump me and hook up with my girl. And I’m STILL standing here saying FYou. Now, here’s some things you don’t know — XYZ. Now that it’s your turn, go ahead and tell them something they already know about me. The guy had no response because Eminem had already used his material.

So the idea is to point out the evidence the prosecution will likely present and preemptively try to spin it in their favor. It doesn’t mean the jury will actually hear these things.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Rewatching some testimony. All this testimony from Wendi about whether it’s cheaper to buy a new tv or have it repaired, and how she couldn’t afford the house she wanted blah blah blah … but she was going to somehow come up with $333,000+ dollars if Dan where to take the million dollar bribe?

 

[Weki]

I found Georgia’s direct exam of Wendi meandering and all over the place. I think Wendi is very slippery. She minimizes everything and lies outright. I feel like asking her open ended questions was pointless. It makes sense that her testimony would be longer this time since it’s her brother at the defense table. And it sounds like the state has more info from Katie.

But I think Georgia could’ve been more effective asking more pointed questions that Wendi couldn’t deny or wiggle out of. Confront her with her own words. Use sarcasm and incredulity sparingly. And get out. I think GC was frustrated. But she knows how Wendi is. She’s done this dance with her twice already. She could’ve been better prepared.

There was just too much teeth pulling.

JMO

ETA: I realize GC isn’t allowed to lead in direct exam but I think she could’ve asked the judge permission to treat Wendi as a hostile witness! She has been named an unindicted co-conspirator you can’t ask open ended questions! It’s painful to watch! Ugh.

 

[Gypsy Road]

This is the first time that I can recall this bday trip was brought up and the state suggested that the gift for Harvey was the murder plot!! I was also thinking only KM could’ve told them that! Had to be!

Had to be! And didn’t Georgia ask WA if KM was at the party?

 

[clearskies1]

I know many people like Georgia and will disagree with my comment but I found her direct exam of Wendi meandering and all over the place. I think Wendi is very slippery. She minimizes everything and lies outright. I feel like asking her open ended questions was pointless. I know her testimony will be longer this time since it’s her brother at the defense table. And it sounds like the state has more info from Katie.

But I think Georgia could’ve been more effective asking more pointed questions that Wendi couldn’t deny or wiggle out of. Confront her with her own words. And get out. I think GC was frustrated. But she knows how Wendi is. She’s done this dance with her twice already.

There was just too much teeth pulling.

JMO

I agree with you. Although I'm not sure if she's allowed to ask
leading questions since she called Wendi as her own witness. You usually can only ask leading questions if you request that the judge deem the person a hostile witness and the judge agrees.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Donna made Dan banana bread and they hugged it out a week before the murder. Wendi forgot about this tidbit the last 2 trials and during the police interviews. Her memory is always foggy unless it comes to fictional exculpatory evidence at which point she can recall with photographic precision.

 

[clearskies1]

I'm sorry if I missed this...The defense is claiming that the hitman joke and knowledge about Charlie's wealth led Garcia and Rivera to kill Dan and then what? Is the defense claiming that they extorted money out of Charlie by saying that they would kill someone else in his family if he didn't pay up?

 

[Weki]

I agree with you. Although I'm not sure if she's allowed to ask
leading questions since she called Wendi as her own witness. You usually can only ask leading questions if you request that the judge deem the person a hostile witness and the judge agrees.

I updated my comment but you had already beat me to it!

I don’t even know why in the H E double hockey sticks the state is pretending like Wendi is not a hostile witness! The state is accusing her of murder. Why does GC kinda sorta pretend to be nice to her? It’s insane that she hasn’t been called as a hostile witness from the 1st trial. She is required to show up under subpoena and testify since she’s been given derivative use immunity.

 

[clearskies1]

Katie needs receipts! She can't just claim what was said about HA's bday party. She needs concrete proof. JMO.

 

[Missyrocks5]

I think this defense is trying to mirror the strategy the Baez on Casey Anthony. After all that happened, leading them on a wild goose chase for a year, being charged with capital murder, etc, never said a word. Waits until opening to say Cayley accidentally drowned in the pool. Ludicrous because she wouldn’t have been hiding that nor would the family for an accident. Also, that Casey was a victim of incest. Offered zero proof, yet that jury didn’t even convict for child neglect. I was always suspicious of all that. Hope none of that happens here And Donna is up next. My prediction is that all of a sudden, you’re going to see a myriad of health issues that Donna is going to be manufacturing.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Also, it, undoubtedly makes Charlie have to testify, and he clearly is may be trying to force katie to testify. He threw her under the bus here so they may be trying to force her into testifying, because they think it will be a win for them. It will no doubt take the focus and try to make katie an Sigfredo, the Mark Fuhrman, and whatever of this trial. However, if she can log into her WhatsApp messages, that’s game set match. If she has independent corroboration for what she says, they can overcome her lying. But if she only has the same texts that we’ve already seen, and all the lying she has done in the past, I do not think that she will help them at all.

sigfredo never testified, so that is helpful. I believe he is in love with katie and would not say something to damage either of their appeals. It’s just interesting that they both have pending appeals and would have to get up and say that they did it. I don’t know. If the prosecution is making a deal with Katie to give her a much lesser sentence in exchange for testimony and access to any phones that she has, that would show her WhatsApp, and all of that, maybe it may work. I suspect they all used burner phones for the WhatsApp. Who knows

 

[Seattle1]

also- Charlie has been sitting in jail for over a year. He claims he didn’t commit murder, he just knows who did and was being blackmailed. Are we to believe his lawyers waited until trial to inform the prosecution of this? He’s guilty of a lesser offense! He couldve pled! He didn’t have to be in jail! Why did they wait until the first day of trial to say what “really happened?” They could’ve cleared it up as soon as he was arrested. I mean, maybe you roll the dice and don’t take a plea when you know you didn’t do a murder, hypothetically. But if you can plead to a lesser charge??? The lawyer should at least have brought it up to him.

^^rsbm

Give me a break! The 3 killers were all locked up, off the streets-- and soon after convicted, and never a chance of harming CA or his family, and he keeps silent all these years about these grievances and extortion the trio caused him! What rubbish -- I'd be so embarrassed if part of this defense team.

CA remained silent because he thought he could get away with murder for hire. He relished his 'gangsta' role almost as much as KM did.

 

[stamplewie]

I updated my comment but you had already beat me to it!

I don’t even know why in the H E double hockey sticks the state is pretending like Wendi is not a hostile witness! The state is accusing her of murder. Why does GC kinda sorta pretend to be nice to her? It’s insane that she hasn’t been called as a hostile witness from the 1st trial. She is required to show up under subpoena and testify since she’s been given derivative use immunity.

it does seem like a silly charade to not have her deemed hostile so she can ask her leading questions on direct.

 

[stamplewie]

^^rsbm

Give me a break! The 3 killers were all locked up, off the streets-- and soon after convicted, and never a chance of harming CA or his family, and he keeps silent all these years about these grievances and extortion the trio caused him! What rubbish -- I'd be so embarrassed if part of this defense team.

CA remained silent because he thought he could get away with murder for hire. He relished his 'gangsta' role almost as much as KM did.

rashbaum's defense theory is so weak that i honestly don't know if i can remember a more ridiculous theory. it was unbelievable while it was coming out of his mouth. the defense wants the jury to believe that the killers, on their own, shot markel for no money or promise of money and then after the fact demanded out of the blue money from Charlie under some threat that they would continue on a killing rampage some unidentified member of his family and he told his mother and they agreed to this and did a payment plan.

 

[jennyjenny]

That's upspeak, very common among teenagers in the 90s, and Coral Springs kids were no different (I lived in the area at the time and remember commonly hearing it). I guess it carries over to adulthood and it should have been caught and corrected during her mentioned full-paid scholarships but maybe it returns during high-pressure situations.

ugh yes ... upspeak and vocal fry ... like nails on a chalkboard!!