FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #14

[Tapeartree]

One can hope the boys will understand as they grow older, but it’s more likely they have become part of the enmeshed family dynamic. Look at OJ Simpson’s adult children; they support their dad.

I watched a trial years ago (Dirk Greineder trial) where the adult children denied the overwhelming evidence that their father murdered their mother. They were very intelligent young adults, but refused to see that their father could do such a thing.
Morphew children seem to be in the same line of thought. I don't understand the psychology.

 

[nodamselindistress]

Cal Harris trial(s) too. There were 4 children and all stood by their father.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think June is still holding on to a fairytale or fantasy, and I feel sorry for her. Lacasse, to me, is the most believable witness in this case. I think he was truly in love with WA, and she used him or strung him along. I think GC is handling this case better than I could if I was an attorney. The whole thing is frustrating and mind boggling.

On another note, I wonder if WA was being truthful when she said she had a great life in Tallahassee. I think in retrospect, she probably thinks it wasn't so bad. Time goes by so quickly, and her boys would be off to college. At that point,she would be free to go anywhere she wanted. She wasn't stuck in Tallahassee forever, but she is stuck coming back here to be grilled by the courts year after year. So, yeah her life in Tallahassee wasn't so bad. JMO

Relieved to hear your positive feedback on Lacasse & Georgia. I agree, and it was already a complex case before Rushbaum threw this curveball.

On your second paragraph, having watched Wendi in previous trials & the infamous police interview I think- like most people- that she's a liar. A very skllful liar too. She hated living in TA
Because we haven't heard as much from Lacasse in this trial, this jury don't have the benefit of all his copious evidence on every way she'd expressed to him how she loathed living in Tallahassee. Georgia tried to get a little bit of that in from Wendi's own book but it seemed ineffective to me.

On your broader point, yes in retrospect 9 years later, maybe she realises she'd have been better off with Dan alive & living in TA is better than this.
However she's just not a person of sound judgment and she's the kind of woman who'd never be happy.

for example
- The marriage choice & her haste. Regret
- Has kids quickly even though 'Lily' character admits no solid basis to the marriage.
- Agrees move to TA. Hates TA. ( She's just not wired to make the best of that move)
- Dumps Dan, then as soon as he's committed to Amy, she starts to act like crazy stalker lady who was dumped by her husband. Resents he's moved on. ( keeps up w gossip on Dan, always driving past the home)
- Gets with Lacasse, soon after they formalise their relationship, she tells Lacasse it's time for the boys to call him Daddy! Then dumps him and she's back on a dating site ( OK Cupid)

 

[Marysmith]

Relieved to hear your positive feedback on Lacasse & Georgia. I agree, and it was already a complex case before Rushbaum threw this curveball.

On your second paragraph, having watched Wendi in previous trials & the infamous police interview I think- like most people- that she's a liar. A very skllful liar too. She hated living in TA
Because we haven't heard as much from Lacasse in this trial, this jury don't have the benefit of all his copious evidence on every way she'd expressed to him how she loathed living in Tallahassee. Georgia tried to get a little bit of that in from Wendi's own book but it seemed ineffective to me.

On your broader point, yes in retrospect 9 years later, maybe she realises she'd have been better off with Dan alive & living in TA is better than this.
However she's just not a person of sound judgment and she's the kind of woman who'd never be happy.

for example
- The marriage choice & her haste. Regret
-Has kids quickly even though 'Lily' character admits no solid basis to marriage.
- Agrees move to TA. Hates TA. ( She's just not wired to make the best of that move)
- Dumps Dan, then as soon as he's committed to Amy, she starts to act like crazy stalker lady who was dumped by her husband. Resents that.
- Gets with Lacasse, soon after they formalise their relationship, she tells Lacasse it's time for the boys to call him Daddy! Then dumps him and she's back on dating site ( OK Cupid)

On point. IMO she would be very difficult to be with as her expectations are very high and her entitlement very real.

 

[Marysmith]

JU posted this on her IG and from my own experience with the State of Florida where I was a witness in a criminal trial I had the same experience - literally 4 hours to get to the airport, no sleep, no prep, extremely stressful experience on the stand and to this day I still think I did horribly and it bothers me sooo much.

ETA: I don’t know why I can’t add the picture… anyways she just says she got little notice, no hotel room to stay in, no prep and it was terrible.

 

[cottonweaver]

The way Wendi just sat up there and blatantly lied about this is truly mind blowing and disgusting. She is cunning and so manipulative. I wish GC could have proven Wendi was lying on that one too , but how could she? And Wendi knew it.

I haven't read Ruth's book but have watched some of her interviews. I didn't get the impression they had much access prior to the temp foster care thing

Obviously I'm no lawyer and GC knows what she's doing better than me.....but... during that exchange I was waiting for Georgia to hit back with a summary list of dates, refusals and then some acceptances (With GC pointedly adding that those visit acceptances were in anticipation of trials)

ETA
If you think back to Lacasse's testimony this week, he said he'd met-albeit briefly - the Adelson parents approx 12 times. ( in 9? months)
That could be more than the Markel grandparents seen their own grand kids in 9 years

 

[Seattle1]

I have a question. Wendi said in her testimony that the Markel’s have had full access to seeing their grandchildren, but hasn’t Ruth said otherwise? Did Wendi openly lie on the stand because she knew the Markel’s were not being called and there was no way to impeach her testimony? I also found it disgraceful that Wendi claimed the legislature that the Markel’s are trying to push through is “unconstitutional”. She showed her true colors there and messed up big time IMO.

The slip of the 'unconstitutional' statement by Wendi re. grandparent visitation rights was indeed the ultimate definition of her character.

However, I don't think Wendi openly lied in her testimony but instead implied the children were always made available whenever access was requested. In truth, I think Wendi just made sure that the children had previously scheduled engagements whenever she received requests for visitation.

In other words, technically, she never refused the grandparents reasonable access to their grandchildren. In her response to questioning, Wendi was also careful not to quantify the requests or actual visitation. And it wasn't for lack of trying by GC!

I also think GC was very effective in her cross how in practice, Wendi's example of the request for the children to go to foster care in the event of her arrest, was not at all as being portrayed by Wendi. I think the jury got the picture here.

Again, like all else, I think the visitation or lack of between the children and the Markel grandparents was being driven by Donna. MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

The slip of the 'unconstitutional' statement by Wendi re. grandparent visitation rights was indeed the ultimate definition of her character.

However, I don't think Wendi openly lied in her testimony but instead implied the children were always made available whenever access was requested. In truth, I think Wendi just made sure that the children had previously scheduled engagements whenever she received requests for visitation.

In other words, technically, she never refused the grandparents reasonable access to their grandchildren. In her response to questioning, Wendi was also careful not to quantify the requests or actual visitation. And it wasn't for lack of trying by GC!

I also think GC was very effective in her cross how in practice, Wendi's example of the request for the children to go to foster care in the event of her arrest, was not at all as being implied by Wendi. I think the jury clearly got the picture here.

Again, like all else, I think the visitation or lack of between the children and the Markel grandparents was being driven by Donna. MOO

Thing with Wendi though, is it's a given she's going to obfuscate and lie. You have to be ready to impeach, hit her with the facts because she will never supply them ( hence my post about having that ready)

Looking at the old interviews - to promote the book it looks more like Wendi cut the Markels off completely , 2016 until 2022

'after the arrest in 2016, Wendi, Danny's ex-wife, cut us off from visiting the children. We tried behind the scenes, the lawyers and so forth, and we even used the media'

The Dan Markel Case: An Interview With Ruth Markel

Ruth Markel is the author of a deeply moving new memoir, The Unveiling: A Mother's Reflection on Murder, Grief, and Trial Life.

davidlat.substack.com

maybe Wendi tried unavailability ruses between 2014 & 2016 ? Be interesting to know how often they were allowed to meet grandparents in that period.

a little more from the link - 2 days before trial, all of a sudden in 2022:

...'I get an email from Wendi Adelson, that's Danny's ex-wife, the mother of his children: “Ruth, we’re making a bar mitzvah for Benjamin around May 14th”—two days before the actual Katherine Magbanua trial—”and we're inviting you all then'

the interview continues, interview took place in Nov 2022:
'RM: We're only at a stage where the door is open, like a crack in the door. We did try to get some Zooms on the boys' birthdays to wish them happy birthday. We were successful. We made other attempts to get visits, which didn't materialize, but just recently, I asked Wendi for a visit in December, and she approved, she confirmed it. So that'll be the next visit. We saw the boys, we had contact with them in April, and now I'm really hopeful that I will get to see them in December. So we're, you know, it's a rocky ship still, but it's more open communication. And although small, but it's working in the right direction, very incremental, small steps. And so forth.'

( I can't tell whether they were allowed to attend barmitzvah because link says that just before, April 21st 2022 , Charlie was arrested)

 

[Weki]

JU posted this on her IG and from my own experience with the State of Florida where I was a witness in a criminal trial I had the same experience - literally 4 hours to get to the airport, no sleep, no prep, extremely stressful experience on the stand and to this day I still think I did horribly and it bothers me sooo much.

ETA: I don’t know why I can’t add the picture… anyways she just says she got little notice, no hotel room to stay in, no prep and it was terrible.

I saw that on her stories. I am not convinced she wasn’t informed way in advance. She would’ve received a subpoena in advance and she would’ve known when the trial started. She’s in Miami, right? So they flew her out the morning of her testimony day and flew her back at the end of the day. They emailed her transcripts of her previous testimony/statements to refresh herself. Clearly, she didn’t bother to read it. GC was frustrated with her for that.

I can imagine though that this is extremely stressful. I was recently called for jury duty and had to be questioned separately on the witness stand in open court! It is frightening. I too spent weeks afterward going over and over what I said and should’ve said etc! I can also appreciate that she’s had to do this a total of 3 times now. But the state will not think about the convenience of witnesses on a murder trial. The fact that she’s whining about it on social media but doesn’t say anything about the man murdered speaks volumes about her character. I can’t imagine worrying about the inconvenience of one day while Ruth Markel is sitting in the courtroom! JMO

Edited to add : I will say though it’s better to treat your witnesses well because if you treat them poorly then they will not do what you ask, like read their transcripts before arriving. I can understand JU being passive aggressive. Although if it were me I would try not to take it personally.

 

[BearWatcher]

I think GC asked Wendi questions and is allowing the jury to draw their own conclusions about whether the answers are truthful. So she does not follow- up
With actual access dates, IMO. She uses questions to others to counter Wendi’s claims - from Lacasse and from DM lawyer. Allows the jurors to draw their conclusions, which shows respect to these jurors. Surely the closing arguments will pull this all together. I think the deep in the details of the previous trials may have led to some boredom. With this quick pace seems to me to be very interesting and will keep jurors engaged and hearing details and watching people’s behavior on the stand.

 

[Ferpo]

JU posted this on her IG and from my own experience with the State of Florida where I was a witness in a criminal trial I had the same experience - literally 4 hours to get to the airport, no sleep, no prep, extremely stressful experience on the stand and to this day I still think I did horribly and it bothers me sooo much.

ETA: I don’t know why I can’t add the picture… anyways she just says she got little notice, no hotel room to stay in, no prep and it was terrible.

For the record, because Stories don't last long:

 

[cottonweaver]

This is what the Markels have been dealing with for years, and it is heartbreaking watching them sitting in the courtroom listening to this.

Their restraint and grace throughout this has been unbelievable.
As to your point about them in court, I cannot imagine myself being able to be so composed when you're having to listen to lies but cannot react.

BTW - A couple of members have mentioned ' enmeshed families' on this page and I think that is key to the Adelsons.

PS @BearWatcher I don't think this trial is boring at all ( compared to other two) First days have been like a whirlwind. I need to listen to some @katiecoolady vlogs and see if the jury have been taking notes. Fingers crossed

 

[clearskies1]

Regarding GC impeaching Wendi, when Wendi said that her mother didn’t know about Dan’s “grandma motion”, GC read from an email saying basically “well, you forwarded the motion to your mother and many other people”, but she didn’t introduce the email into evidence. I found that interesting. Maybe there were things in the email that were not that favorable to the state. Wendi may have quasi-conceded that she did send the email, but I’m not sure.

 

[cottonweaver]

clearskies1-
reminds me, need to check that exhibits list to see if there is any Charlie whatsapps on that list ( I haven't looked at it yet, I believe MentourLawyer has done a piece on the list but haven't seen it )

BTW
why was Wendi allowed to sit in the court and listen to opening statements? why wasn't she stopped? ( Thus being able to claim later that she'd only just heard of the Defense's new extortion argument that morning)

Also quite a few reporters and commentators have said that they believe Wendi that she only just heard about this for first time, 9 years later, this very day. Does anybody here agree with that?

 

[Mariposa]

The whole TV repairman thing was not just to provide WA an alibi but also to be a reason for her call to CA that morning (should I replace or repair the TV?). Which is absolutely absurd because anyone with a brain knows it is cheaper to buy a new one, but WA likes to play dumb alot.

The Dolce Vita tape is going to be used as proof of the "double extortion" resulting from the bump by the defense IMHO. They will explain that is why CA and KM are now on the same side, we now have new extortionists. At least that is what I expect them to do!

Good point about the TV repair providing an explanation for lots of phone calls with CA—hadn’t thought of it that way. The whole TV thing is so contrived and ham handed. As many have said here, no, a big hole in a TV screen cannot be freaking fixed -BUY A NEW ONE. The one thing that gels is that JL has said (I think more in his police interviews than in trial testimony) that he found WA shockingly immature and babied by her family. Like she could not handle simple adulting. Which I guess could be consistent with the whole family rallying around this broken TV set like it’s a major problem.

I remember from previous trials phone records showed CA and DA having lots of phone contact in the wee hours of July 18, just hours before the murder. So weird why they would be talking that late at night isn’t it. Seemed to be KM was checking for updates with the boys in Tallahassee and then telling CA who would relay to DA who would likely relay to WA.

 

[clearskies1]

Good point about the TV repair providing an explanation for lots of phone calls with CA—hadn’t thought of it that way. The whole TV thing is so contrived and ham handed. As many have said here, no, a big hole in a TV screen cannot be freaking fixed -BUY A NEW ONE. The one thing that gels is that JL has said (I think more in his police interviews than in trial testimony) that he found WA shockingly immature and babied by her family. Like she could not handle simple adulting. Which I guess could be consistent with the whole family rallying around this broken TV set like it’s a major problem.

I remember from previous trials phone records showed CA and DA having lots of phone contact in the wee hours of July 18, just hours before the murder. So weird why they would be talking that late at night isn’t it. Seemed to be KM was checking for updates with the boys in Tallahassee and then telling CA who would relay to DA who would likely relay to WA.

From what I’ve seen, Wendi plays dumb. Then again, I don’t think she’s smart to begin with. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Snippet from HarvardLawyerLee. Lee says...
- it would be good if the State could get a copy of the another person's Stock the Bar invitation ( to see if the host really had written specific alcohol requests on guests' invitations. Lee was wondering if WA could have written that herself)

I missed Rushbaum show that exhibit. Lee says that the exhibit showed that WA had kept the invitation and it had Bulleit brand bourbon written on the top ( Written by host) Is that correct? Anybody recall seeing that?

( I'm asking cause it contradicts what WA told Isom in her police interview. She told Isom that the licqour store owner recommended the Bourbon to her. Link for that is at 8m 28secs

)

wouldn't the state want to use that?

 

[Missyrocks5]

For the record, because Stories don't last long:

View attachment 456551

Someone else pointed out that on JU’s IG she’s posing with a new Mercedes captioned be the periodontist your mom told you to marry. Interestingly that post times when CA was arrested. But I guess she gave GC some needed things and she didn’t impeach her by saying she said he never got her a car. Would explain her devotion despite the fact he never committed to her for years now.

 

[Mariposa]

From what I’ve seen, Wendi plays the femme fatale and plays dumb. Then again, I don’t think she’s smart to begin with. JMO

Another thing JL has assessed correctly - WA definitely uses her physical attractiveness as an advantage (enhanced by various means including the color contacts —check out the cover for the novel she published while still married to DM). Various personality glitches might have been more easily masked by a pleasant exterior. Sounds like she had a large retinue of male admirers in the mix which created drama in her relationship with JL.

 

[cottonweaver]

BTW forgot to mention...

Re June and that Insta post on this WS page
Remember when the police interview w June was uploaded to Youtube? I am sure that she said in that interview that she used to read WS posts on the case too!