FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

[amicuscurie]

Thinking ahead here. Gary Cohen - the lawyer who is very close to the Adelsons, and who put together a $1M partner-track offer from his firm for Wendi to try to help her in her relocation application - he is on Charlie's witness list. He was also "consulted" about the $1M bribe the Adelsons were prepared to make to Dan to allow Wendi to relocate. He is on the witness list for the Defense.

What are the chances that he is going to come to court and say that Charlie was being extorted since 2014 and met with him about it?

I can’t believe he would do something like that.

 

[Laura930]

The legend that was shown had a couple of items blacked out. Any speculation on who or what they were?

 

[amicuscurie]

So he talks and talks about how blackmailers don’t let you know who they are. But now he’s claiming Katie was blackmailing him and he knew who the killers were.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I can’t believe he would do something like that.

You're right. That would be completely crazy. But it would be even crazier to think that the Adelson family is going to bet the last 40 years of Charlie's life <modsnip> on 0.01% chance that he can spin this case into misinterpretations and his uncorroborated extortion story. Harvey and Donna were all set to testify as Defense witnesses until the State compelled investigative subpeonas. June Umchinda's testimony was almost entirely perjury. Wendi Adelson's absolutely was.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I don't think so. Gary Cohen may not be the ace up their sleeve, but they have one.

 

[userunnamed]

You're right. That would be completely crazy. But it would be even crazier to think that the Adelson family is going to bet the last 40 years of Charlie's life <modsnip> on 0.01% chance that he can spin this case into misinterpretations and his uncorroborated extortion story. Harvey and Donna were all set to testify as Defense witnesses until the State compelled investigative subpeonas. June Umchinda's testimony was almost entirely perjury. Wendi Adelson's absolutely was.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I don't think so. Gary Cohen may not be the ace up their sleeve, but they have one.

Or maybe their ace is CA's personality with his testimony (if he testifies). They might be hoping that he's such a smooth talker and charismatic that he can talk himself out of this. I really feel like this defense is a hail mary--well so far. We haven't seen any compelling evidence to their theory. We'll see what happens when it's their turn.

 

[BSBC]

Thinking ahead here. Gary Cohen - the lawyer who is very close to the Adelsons, and who put together a $1M partner-track offer from his firm for Wendi to try to help her in her relocation application - he is on Charlie's witness list. He was also "consulted" about the $1M bribe the Adelsons were prepared to make to Dan to allow Wendi to relocate. He is on the witness list for the Defense.

What are the chances that he is going to come to court and say that Charlie was being extorted since 2014 and met with him about it?

I believe it would be inadmissible hearsay if Cohen (or another witness) were to testify "CA told me he was being extorted by KM." Under FL law, hearsay "is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted." Fla. Stat. 90.801. CA would be the "declarant" here. And the defense would be offering the statement "to prove the truth of the matter asserted," i.e. that KM extorted CA. So Cohen (or anyone else) could testify that he witnessed the extortion directly, but not about what CA told him about the extortion.

All that said, one thing I've been struck by during the trial is how neither side is making much of an effort to hold the other to the rules of evidence. The prosecution's questions have been blatantly leading. Witnesses have been testifying to things without adequate foundation. Tons of hearsay has come in. But objections from either side have been rare.

 

[amicuscurie]

I believe it would be inadmissible hearsay if Cohen (or another witness) were to testify "CA told me he was being extorted by KM." Under FL law, hearsay "is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted." Fla. Stat. 90.801. CA would be the "declarant" here. And the defense would be offering the statement "to prove the truth of the matter asserted," i.e. that KM extorted CA. So Cohen (or anyone else) could testify that he witnessed the extortion directly, but not about what CA told him about the extortion.

All that said, one thing I've been struck by during the trial is how neither side is making much of an effort to hold the other to the rules of evidence. The prosecution's questions have been blatantly leading. Witnesses have been testifying to things without adequate foundation. Tons of hearsay has come in. But objections from either side have been rare.

Rash objects more than the state. But, yes, I agree. But I do think there have been so many sidebars! It’s very stop-and-go. Few objections, but a lot of contentious evidentiary issues. Aren‘t these supposed to be mostly resolved prior to trial through pretrial motions? Rashbaum is fighting pretty hard even now to keep stuff out.

 

[nodamselindistress]

So CA thinks DA and HA get all worked up over every little thing and make a big deal out of it??? Perhaps he should have thought about that before hiring the hit on DM!

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Rash objects more than the state. But, yes, I agree. But I do think there have been so many sidebars! It’s very stop-and-go. Few objections, but a lot of contentious evidentiary issues. Aren‘t these supposed to be mostly resolved prior to trial through pretrial motions? Rashbaum is fighting pretty hard even now to keep stuff out.

Precisely! Rashbaum told the jury in opening that the Dolce Vita recordings were the State's best evidence and they actually exonerate his client. Which is interesting, given all the pre-trial motions he filed trying to exclude this "exculpatory" evidence.

 

[MsArk]

Even with all of their money and ability, CA using that phone to discuss the bump is one of the craziest thing I’ve seen. Who doesn’t know to stay off the phone when reaping mayhem? CA is so arrogant and thinks he is smarter than anyone in the room. The transcripts are so transparent and I have zero doubt, regarding how it plays out, he was the mastermind. His mom & likely his father definitely knew what was either 1) being planned or 2) told after the fact. Not sure about Wendy. This family is like the mob.

 

[amicuscurie]

Even with all of their money and ability, CA using that phone to discuss the bump is one of the craziest thing I’ve seen. Who doesn’t know to stay off the phone when reaping mayhem? CA is so arrogant and thinks he is smarter than anyone in the room. The transcripts are so transparent and I have zero doubt, regarding how it plays out, he was the mastermind. His mom & likely his father definitely knew what was either 1) being planned or 2) told after the fact. Not sure about Wendy. This family is like the mob.

I think they really thought the talking in code would prevent the state from being able to get them. Like Charlie probably said “look, even if they have you on tape, all you’re doing is talking about a listing. You’re a realtor. So, like, sure go ahead, I’m talking about real estate…” etc. like he talks.

 

[clearskies1]

These calls are intense.

 

[cottonweaver]

Deleted ! It's 3 hours behind the thread

 

[Missyrocks5]

Always said the tape of CA screaming at KM to call the number shows he's not afraid of KM or SG. Why wouldnt she have screamed to CA that he better pay her from the supposed first extortion during all this? She wouldnt be following directions. CA still calls the shots.

And they all never call the cops. This defense is a joke

 

[amicuscurie]

Here he is on the phone denying that he is paying Katie. There goes the ongoing extortion claim. Rash is going to claim he’s denying it because he thinks his phone is bugged or he doesn’t want to talk about the extortion on the phone. But, why? You don’t want to talk about MURDER on the phone. But talking about extortion to the person who is allegedly extorting you? And you’re worried about police listening in? None of it makes sense.

ETA- Georgia just asked about this. Charlie smiled and looked at Rash. Wonder how they think they can explain why he denied being extorted by Katie. I bet Rash is going to say she and Garcia talked about it, because she does say to Garcia “it’s someone who knows something.”

 

[Mariposa]

Even with all of their money and ability, CA using that phone to discuss the bump is one of the craziest thing I’ve seen. Who doesn’t know to stay off the phone when reaping mayhem? CA is so arrogant and thinks he is smarter than anyone in the room. The transcripts are so transparent and I have zero doubt, regarding how it plays out, he was the mastermind. His mom & likely his father definitely knew what was either 1) being planned or 2) told after the fact. Not sure about Wendy. This family is like the mob.

You are right it was so dumb for them to talk on the phone about this stuff. CA and DA lived fairly close to each other and apparently saw each other a lot so they should have stick to in person comms in a non public place about their murder plot. And then maybe had a system like sitting together while writing notes to each other and destroying the paper after! Did they really think their hammy codes about TV sets were clever.

 

[amicuscurie]

You are right it was so dumb for them to talk on the phone about this stuff. CA and DA lived fairly close to each other and apparently saw each other a lot so they should have stick to in person comms in a non public place about their murder plot. And then maybe had a system like sitting together while writing notes to each other and destroying the paper after! Did they really think their hammy codes about TV sets were clever.

They didn’t live that close at this time, it was like an hour drive, and Charlie was already driving all over all day for work. He talked on the phone a lot on the drives. He can’t shut up. JMO

 

[amicuscurie]

Is Rash going to argue that Katie and Sig were afraid that Charlie HAD gone to the police and was setting them up for the extortion? That would have worked if Katie hadn’t testified. Did she testify about the bump and what she thought it was? Of course, if that was the case, then Katie wouldn’t have kept talking with Charlie about it, and they wouldn’t have called the undercover.

 

[cottonweaver]

wow! Charlie cussing about Robert in the comedy call between CA and a frustrated WA, just now on the live feed
' my brother is a '
( Call LL)

Call NN - CA mentions Robert again during the call where her role-plays telephoning the undercover and asking which member of my family owes you, I have a big family, is it my brother Robert?'

Call OO - CA and Donna. They're trying to schedule an in-person conversation and don't want to talk on the phone & CA wants to update Donna. Later in the call he cannot resist telling her titbits: the UC is too well-spoken & lack of threats so CA says he's sure the UC is the person he previously suspected.
CA adds: ' I would be beyond shocked if the family didn't hire their own investigators'
DA later says: ' If it's them it's very clever of them'
DA later says: ' I just hope that they don't go bother Wendi' CA replies that ' they ' are not far from going to the police, but if ' they ' do contact Wendi then Wendi will call the police
DA replies that Harvey has said that is ' we don't... we don't say anything.... cause the last thing we wanna do is aggravate Wendi' cause has 'been through enough' ( A fascinating little exchange follows, see screenshot, CA makes an analogy of a death in the family & how the bereaved person acts)

 

[amicuscurie]

OMG “That’s like someone calling me up and going you killed JFK, now you gotta pay me.”

ETA - ”I don’t want to go to the police on the person who is extorting me. I just want them to leave me alone. But I will. If they keep calling, I will. I’m not just going to pay them money.”