FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

[Mariposa]

Not totally related but good grief I can’t imagine being at at dentist appointment & my dentist is a bit late all because he’s on the phone talking with his Mom about this murder for hire plot.

Many of the calls on YouTube have Charlie appearing to be at work, he’s interrupted “I’ll be right there”, “give me a sec, this is an important call”

And also with him doing dental procedures while preoccupied with trying to fend off the FBI and needing to meet with Mom to talk in person. What I find most crazy is that out of all the recorder calls (on YouTube that I’ve listened to) the one person who had the “problem”, aka Wendi, seems to be the person most insulated away from everyone else talking. What a crazy family JMOO

I’ve thought about how he kept up with his busy lucrative periodontics while doing all this crap! Like not just these calls but the day of the murder, communicating with KM constantly, DA, handholding WA through her TV repair drama .. was he using sharp tools on people’s gums at the same time?

 

[MartinDupuis]

I think they really thought the talking in code would prevent the state from being able to get them. Like Charlie probably said “look, even if they have you on tape, all you’re doing is talking about a listing. You’re a realtor. So, like, sure go ahead, I’m talking about real estate…” etc. like he talks.

Charlie will surely be the smartest person in the room once he's in jail....Harvey Donna Wendi and Charlie....all guilty.....

 

[amicuscurie]

View attachment 457433
Next page in the call, continuing from the last screenshot. Call OO

Wendi's 'safety' is very ambiguous to me & CA & DA obfuscate on phones, they talk in riddles obviously
It could also me safety from investigation/ prosecution as much as extortion

Why are Donna and Harvey even discussing going to the cops? Are they that worried about this scary extortionist? Don’t they realize that if they go to the cops, the cops will ask them about the murder? Of course, if they’re not involved in the murder, why not go to the cops? To protect Wendi? All very confusing. Why do they even think the cops would be trying to get them to talk?

ETA- they may be just deluded enough to think that if they go to the cops now, the cops will just investigate the extortion and not ask them any other questions, and just look for who is extorting them. It might not occur to them to be concerned that any search for the extortionist might lead to the actual murderers. After all, there’s no evidence to connect them to the killers. Charlie is actually the smarter person on this call, because he is trying to explain to Donna that if she goes to the cops, they will ask all about the murder. But maybe that didn’t occur to her, she was just scared and self-centered

 

[amicuscurie]

Charlie will surely be the smartest person in the room once he's in jail....Harvey Donna Wendi and Charlie....all guilty.....

I do like how he thinks he’s smarter than his sister, a law school graduate and Cambridge fellowship recipient. Notice which sibling is on trial now.

 

[Mariposa]

Why are Donna and Harvey even discussing going to the cops? Are they that worried about this scary extortionist? Don’t they realize that if they go to the cops, the cops will ask them about the murder? Of course, if they’re not involved in the murder, why not go to the cops? To protect Wendi? All very confusing. Why do they even think the cops would be trying to get them to talk?

It would have been really arrogant to go to the cops but then at that time in 2016 I think they had NO idea the net was finally closing in on them! Identifying the Prius and LR/SG as the hitmen, the KM and CA connection, they had NO clue how far along the investigation was. Maybe they thought well Tallahassee cops aren’t that great and it’s been almost 2 years and clearly they don’t know who did it or else someone would have been arrested already.

ETA——-part of the reason that had no clue was that they showed zero interest in the investigation and refused to talk to detectives. Like WA said she was so terrified that the killer of DM would go after her and her kids, that she fled to Miami and changed their surnames. but also never asked Isom etc how the investigation was coming along? Suspicious! In the Tally podcast RA talks about how very suspicious that was to him! And in Ruth Markels book she writes that when SG was arrested WA suddenly became very communicative with Ruth trying to find out everything the investigators were telling Ruth.

 

[amicuscurie]

It would have been really arrogant to go to the cops but then at that time in 2016 I think they had NO idea the net was finally closing in on them! Identifying the Prius and LR/SG as the hitmen, the KM and CA connection, they had NO clue how far along the investigation was. Maybe they thought well Tallahassee cops aren’t that great and it’s been almost 2 years and clearly they don’t know who did it or else someone would have been arrested already.

Of course, Rash is going to argue that if they were guilty, they wouldn’t have been thinking of going to the cops, but also that they didn’t go to the cops because they didn’t want to scare Wendi. Wonder if the jury will buy it.

 

[scapa]

I do like how he thinks he’s smarter than his sister, a law school graduate and Cambridge fellowship recipient. Notice which sibling is on trial now.

I feel like CA may well regard WA as "book-smarter."

And he's "murder-smarter."

'Cept it turned out -- he ain't.

Throughout this set of calls I can't shake the view of this family as the kind of criminals that Columbo routinely skewers -- wealthy, educated, utterly confident in their abilities to pull one over on their targets and those blue-collar cops, because they've always won.

But as Columbo tells us -- they never deserved those things. And were never that smart. Or good.

And finally, and justifiably -- they lose.

 

[cottonweaver]

I watched both prior trials and I didn't recall all these calls. I cannot imagine anyone listening to all of this and NOT believing beyond a reasonable doubt that Donna was directly involved with Charlie.

That's just what Tim Janssen said on STS live's lunch break too

 

[MTW2011]

The stress and fear in Donna’s voice on these recorded calls is palpable and I hope she continues to feel that every single day until if and when she’s ever arrested. It’s the very least the universe could cause back on her for working with her son to orchestrate a murder of someone they viewed as just a “problem”. Hopefully the stress and looking over her shoulder hasn’t gone away, because as of now they’re all still free - Wendi, Harvey and Donna. JMOO and I hope it’s not too harsh. It’s just maddening to listen to what they’ve said and know the State hasn’t even pursued even some minor charges against the others! I don’t know what exactly those could be but still. Wow.

 

[cottonweaver]

Janssen makes astute point that the pattern of the murder for hire plot is repeated in the Bump reaction:
- Always down to the hired thugs to TCB. And the pattern in the comms is repeated too
- Adelsons passing the bump problem to Katie's ' friend' to resolve

Tim adds, in response to listener question:
Harvey is well insulated. Tim thinks that's because as they said in another wiretap, Harvey has a tendency to flip his lid. ( That HA wouldn't be able to keep the codes, keep calm. bad temper etc)

I can't keep up with Tim J but for those who come to WS thread later, he adds
- 'checkmate' for the Defense. very difficult for Rashbaum now, he's not a magician. ' the end is near'
- very bad day for the Defence, strong day for the state.
- Tim explains the real reason why they never went to the cops - which to me sounds like the comment CA made about Wendi ( Screenshot in my previous WS post - ' safety' is a euphemism)
- Tim reiterates that there's more against Donna than he'd previously realised ' she ' knew , she participated, was well aware, Donna does nothing except continue to pay Katie'. Tim adds that the DA & FBI might be listening to testimony today & this could apply extra pressure re Pros of DA
- he still thinks that Rash has to call his client to testify
- Bump worked excellently. CA previously told another friend that as long as one keeps quiet, one is okay but as we can see from these calls, they just couldn't keep quiet.
- the SG-KM calls where SG can't even remember a phone number just shows how preposterous it is that somebody like SG could pull-off a double extortion
- Tim laughed at Charlies ' short, crooked tie today'
- Tim says some of CA's comments in tapes might play badly with the jury. Tim mentions words CA used such as ' ghetto'
- Georgia has not played much Dolce so far so it's harder for Rash to cross this now. Tim thinks Georgia will strategise via rebuttal.

 

[MTW2011]

I feel like CA may well regard WA as "book-smarter."

And he's "murder-smarter."

'Cept it turned out -- he ain't.

Yeah, his whole “it’s not how that’s done, Mom”
“They wouldn’t say ‘you don’t care’ “
“It’s someone fishing. Let them fish”

Charlie is being shown just how the FBI recorded phone calls is done, just like that. They hit record and listen to you all implicate yourself and not at all hint at any real or even fake extortion coming for you or your family.

 

[MTW2011]

It would be some poetic justice if law enforcement swooped in and arrested Donna, Wendi, and/or Harvey as these previously unheard calls are being played for the jury and the public today.

Hopefully their time is coming, too.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

With this evidence -- Donna Adelson being free to raise her grandkids for the last 9 years is a SCANDAL. Arrest her today.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yeah, his whole “it’s not how that’s done, Mom”
“They wouldn’t say ‘you don’t care’ “
“It’s someone fishing. Let them fish”

Charlie is being shown just how the FBI recorded phone calls is done, just like that. They hit record and listen to you all implicate yourself and not at all hint at any real or even fake extortion coming for you or your family.

Well, in Charlie’s experience, all women begin every sentence with “you don’t care.” Hmm.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Rashbaum said at opening that there was "an extortion on an extortion. A Double Extortion!"

In reality, there is a double FAKE extortion - 1) the FBI's fake extortion, and 2) Charlie's Defense Theory Fake Extortion.

 

[Gypsy Road]

According to LR, Sigs was drunk every single day, and we hear on these taps that he can’t even remember a phone number that’s been repeated to him over and over. No way in heck Sig could pull off extortion scheme even if he wanted.

 

[amicuscurie]

Rashbaum said at opening that there was "an extortion on an extortion. A Double Extortion!"

In reality, there is a double FAKE extortion - 1) the FBI's fake extortion, and 2) Charlie's Defense Theory Fake Extortion.

I think the theme for the state’s closing should be “murder on spec.” Thats what the defense is asking you to believe. That people did a murder for hire on spec. They spend all this time arguing how “nobody pays for a murder in installments.” Which may or may not be true. But what is true is “Nobody murders someone on spec.”

Also- even if you DO murder someone on spec, and they pay you, isn’t that murder for hire? If you build a house on spec, and someone buys the house, they bought a house. If they murdered someone on spec, and Charlie paid them, Charlie bought a murder. How is that “extortion?” If you wanted the person killed, and they thought they could extort you for the money because of that, it’s actually murder for hire. It’s only extortion if you did the murder and they know you did, and they weren’t involved. Otherwise, it’s just a murder for hire plot, and you’re paying them to keep quiet about it.

Charlie has conceded that these people murdered Dan, and he paid for it. The argument that he was afraid, so he paid the money, doesn’t hold up, because why not just go to the police If you weren’t guilty? Plus, there’s a lot of evidence he wanted Dan dead.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Cappleman: "Somebody had to hire them, right?"
Wendi: "Not necessarily..."
Cappleman: "Somebody had to pay them, right?"
Wendi: "I learned something today...."
Cappleman: (laughs) "yeah, me too!"

Wendi just learning about Charlie's extortion defense theory the day of her testimony is just as believable as her:
1) forcing her kids to watch movies on a shattered TV for a month
2) then by sheer coincidence having an appointment for the TV to be assessed by repair guy the morning of the murder - who told her its not worth fixing,
3) then talking on the phone with Charlie for 18 minutes about whether it was worth it to fix the TV or replace it and texting "This is SWEET!!" to Charlie after the call
4) The TV happens to be the exact same TV that Charlie bought her as a divorce present because it's cheaper than hiring a hitman. And all this before
5) driving 15 minutes out of her way to within 3-5 houses of the crime scene of the murder of her ex-husband - who happened to be murdered by a hitman - using a shortcut that is not a shortcut to the furthest possible liquor store away from both her house and the restaurant plans she was running late for; and then
6) Her mom and brother being caught on FBI wiretaps referencing how a pay off to someone associated with Dan Markel's murder was "a TV".

No reasonable person could possibly believe any of this. How unlucky for innocent Wendi, for all these circumstances to come together.

 

[jennyjenny]

N

I don’t recall most of these. Anyone else?

Missed this mornings testimony & trying to catch up. Not remembering some of these.

 

[vislaw]

Here's an interesting thought exercise: 1) We have direct evidence that CA hired the murderers (LR testified that the hit was arranged by "the dentist" and KM testified very directly that Charlie specifically masterminded the hit); 2) We have massive amounts of circumstantial evidence that CA was the man behind the murder, including all the wiretaps and testimony by Wendi's ex-boyfriend that she actually confided in him that Charlie has looked into what it would cost to hire a hit man to kill Dan.

With that background as context, tell me now ANY evidence that contradicts the state's case. I mean, seriously, can you identify any evidence at all? ... In a case like this a man of means would ordinarily have some evidence through friends or his family to corroborate his innocence. It's not going to be Wendi. It's not going to be Donna or Harvey. Let that sink in. .... This is why I would put a large sum of money on the line betting CA is going to take the stand. He simply has no other choice and otherwise he's not going to have any evidence (unless there's a real twist coming from one of the witnesses on the list we haven't anticipated).