FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *3 guilty* #15

[MTW2011]

Cappleman: "Somebody had to hire them, right?"
Wendi: "Not necessarily..."
Cappleman: "Somebody had to pay them, right?"
Wendi: "I learned something today...."
Cappleman: (laughs) "yeah, me too!"

Wendi just learning about Charlie's extortion defense theory the day of her testimony is just as believable as her:
1) forcing her kids to watch movies on a shattered TV for a month
2) then by sheer coincidence having an appointment for the TV to be assessed by repair guy the morning of the murder - who told her its not worth fixing,
3) then talking on the phone with Charlie for 18 minutes about whether it was worth it to fix the TV or replace it and texting "This is SWEET!!" to Charlie after the call
4) The TV happens to be the exact same TV that Charlie bought her as a divorce present because it's cheaper than hiring a hitman. And all this before
5) driving 15 minutes out of her way to within 3-5 houses of the crime scene of the murder of her ex-husband the despised using a shortcut that is not a shortcut to the furthest possible liquor store away from both her house and the restaurant plans she was running late for; and then
6) Her mom and brother being caught on FBI wiretaps referencing how a pay off to someone associated with Dan Markel's murder was "a TV".

No reasonable person could possibly believe any of this. How unlucky for innocent Wendi, for all these circumstances to come together.

But how “lucky” for Wendi she was offered some immunity, which I still cannot believe.

So disappointing. I don’t see how Wendi offered anything that implicated others that they couldn’t have gotten anywhere else unless they offered her immunity . She is lucky that’s for sure.

 

[Mariposa]

According to LR, Sigs was drunk every single day, and we hear on these taps that he can’t even remember a phone number that’s been repeated to him over and over. No way in heck Sig could pull off extortion scheme even if he wanted.

SG was a mess..remember also him shooting the gun into the floor of the Prius and severing the gas line.

 

[Mariposa]

I think the theme for the state’s closing should be “murder on spec.” Thats what the defense is asking you to believe. That people did a murder for hire on spec. They spend all this time arguing how “nobody pays for a murder in installments.” Which may or may not be true. But what is true is “Nobody murders someone on spec.”

Also- even if you DO murder someone on spec, and they pay you, isn’t that murder for hire? If you build a house on spec, and someone buys the house, they bought a house. If they murdered someone on spec, and Charlie paid them, Charlie bought a murder. How is that “extortion?” If you wanted the person killed, and they thought they could extort you for the money because of that, it’s actually murder for hire. It’s only extortion if you did the murder and they know you did, and they weren’t involved. Otherwise, it’s just a murder for hire plot, and you’re paying them to keep quiet about it.

Charlie has conceded that these people murdered Dan, and he paid for it. The argument that he was afraid, so he paid the money, doesn’t hold up, because why not just go to the police If you weren’t guilty? Plus, there’s a lot of evidence he wanted Dan dead.

This murder on spec is reminding me of the old Hitchcock movie Strangers on a Train…crazy dude chatting to another guy on a train realizes the other guy is unhappily married so takes it upon himself to kill the other guys wife. And then tells the other guy, ok you owe me now, you have to kill my father.

It was a cool movie plot but yeah it just doesn’t happen

 

[cottonweaver]

Haven't managed to catch-up with the early morning stuff, given-up for now.
but re 'Live' comments Joel Wilding just popped on to say that the jury is ' RIVETED' with the wire taps this morning. ( he didn't say anything else)

 

[clearskies1]

SG was a mess..remember also him shooting the gun into the floor of the Prius and severing the gas line.

I think LR testified at an earlier trial that SG was drinking heavily because Katie booted him out and was seeing CA.

 

[opt]

Also- even if you DO murder someone on spec, and they pay you, isn’t that murder for hire? If you build a house on spec, and someone buys the house, they bought a house. If they murdered someone on spec, and Charlie paid them, Charlie bought a murder.

I wonder if any law on murder on spec exists. Probably not, since it never happens. But your logic would allow the jury to convict CA of paying for the murder even if the defense theory were true.

 

[Sustained]

If CA was indeed

Here's an interesting thought exercise: 1) We have direct evidence that CA hired the murderers (LR testified that the hit was arranged by "the dentist" and KM testified very directly that Charlie specifically masterminded the hit); 2) We have massive amounts of circumstantial evidence that CA was the man behind the murder, including all the wiretaps and testimony by Wendi's ex-boyfriend that she actually confided in him that Charlie has looked into what it would cost to hire a hit man to kill Dan.

With that background as context, tell me now ANY evidence that contradicts the state's case. I mean, seriously, can you identify any evidence at all? ... In a case like this a man of means would ordinarily have some evidence through friends or his family to corroborate his innocence. It's not going to be Wendi. It's not going to be Donna or Harvey. Let that sink in. .... This is why I would put a large sum of money on the line betting CA is going to take the stand. He simply has no other choice and otherwise he's not going to have any evidence (unless there's a real twist coming from one of the witnesses on the list we haven't anticipated).

BBM - agreed - will be interesting to hear why "extortionists" chose to kill DM instead of someone CA was actually close to like WA/DA/HA or even RA.

 

[cottonweaver]

OMG “That’s like someone calling me up and going you killed JFK, now you gotta pay me.”

ETA - ”I don’t want to go to the police on the person who is extorting me. I just want them to leave me alone. But I will. If they keep calling, I will. I’m not just going to pay them money.”

He was bluffing. he/they couldn't afford to get the cops taking even more interest in the DM murder.

This call was funny. Katie replied that she didn't understand why he was using JFK as an analogy.

Other thing which stood out to me is how much of a coward Charlie is. Not sure which call exhbit it was but it's the one where Katie is really cussing and losing her temper, she's saying what she's gonna do to the Bumper and Charlie keeps chipping-in with ' and me too' type comments.

He's going to be in terrible trouble in prison after the Guilty verdict

 

[amicuscurie]

Here's an interesting thought exercise: 1) We have direct evidence that CA hired the murderers (LR testified that the hit was arranged by "the dentist" and KM testified very directly that Charlie specifically masterminded the hit); 2) We have massive amounts of circumstantial evidence that CA was the man behind the murder, including all the wiretaps and testimony by Wendi's ex-boyfriend that she actually confided in him that Charlie has looked into what it would cost to hire a hit man to kill Dan.

With that background as context, tell me now ANY evidence that contradicts the state's case. I mean, seriously, can you identify any evidence at all? ... In a case like this a man of means would ordinarily have some evidence through friends or his family to corroborate his innocence. It's not going to be Wendi. It's not going to be Donna or Harvey. Let that sink in. .... This is why I would put a large sum of money on the line betting CA is going to take the stand. He simply has no other choice and otherwise he's not going to have any evidence (unless there's a real twist coming from one of the witnesses on the list we haven't anticipated).

Yep. But they may be banking in the fact that while nothing contradicts the state’s case, a lot of the evidence is consistent with theirs.

 

[amicuscurie]

I wonder if any law on murder on spec exists. Probably not, since it never happens. But your logic would allow the jury to convict CA of paying for the murder even if the defense theory were true.

Yep. Maybe the state will use a similar argument.

 

[vislaw]

Something else that came to my mind is the fact that in September 2016 the probable cause affidavit was made public describing the basis behind this conclusion:

“Based on the above information, this investigator believes there is sufficient evidence to prove Charles Adelson, Katherine Magbanua, Sigfredo Garcia, and Luis Rivera are responsible for the murder of Daniel Markel.”

In 2019 Matt Shaer's podcast "Over My Dead Body - Tally" premiered with many of the wiretaps and much of the devastating evidence implicating Charlie and the Adelsons. The point being that it was not only no secret but was actually a widely held public belief that Charlie and the Adelsons were culpable for the murder of Dan Markel. Certainly, many commentators and public figures discussed the prospect of indictment for Charlie.

Any competent attorney representing Charlie and the Adelsons would have recognized that protecting Charlie from indictment would have been the top priority and most important duty owed to the client. Had there been ANY truth to the story that Dan had been murdered by independent actors who then extorted the Adelson family, you can be very certain the attorneys would have been bound to both document the extortion and take steps to make sure Katie and friends would be charged accordingly. To show up in 2023 for the very first time advancing this defense while keeping Wendi completely clueless and out of the loop is both outrageous and completely unbelievable.

Bear in mind that attorneys have an ethical obligation to report crimes. Most prominent defense lawyers generally handle clients like Charlie with a prefacing statement that they DO NOT WANT TO KNOW whether or not he is guilty or whether or not he is aware of other crimes. Such knowledge will present serious problems for counsel. I have several criminal defense lawyer friends who have explained this to me in detail.

 

[amicuscurie]

He was bluffing. he/they couldn't afford to get the cops taking even more interest in the DM murder.

This call was funny. Katie replied that she didn't understand why he was using JFK as an analogy.

Other thing which stood out to me is how much of a coward Charlie is. Not sure which call exhbit it was but it's the one where Katie is really cussing and losing her temper, she's saying what she's gonna do to the Bumper and Charlie keeps chipping-in with ' and me too' type comments.

He's going to be in terrible trouble in prison after the Guilty verdict

The important thing is that he says he’s not just going to pay the money. Which is the defense theory as to what he actually did.

 

[cottonweaver]

Here's an interesting thought exercise: 1) We have direct evidence that CA hired the murderers (LR testified that the hit was arranged by "the dentist" and KM testified very directly that Charlie specifically masterminded the hit); 2) We have massive amounts of circumstantial evidence that CA was the man behind the murder, including all the wiretaps and testimony by Wendi's ex-boyfriend that she actually confided in him that Charlie has looked into what it would cost to hire a hit man to kill Dan.

With that background as context, tell me now ANY evidence that contradicts the state's case. I mean, seriously, can you identify any evidence at all? ... In a case like this a man of means would ordinarily have some evidence through friends or his family to corroborate his innocence. It's not going to be Wendi. It's not going to be Donna or Harvey. Let that sink in. .... This is why I would put a large sum of money on the line betting CA is going to take the stand. He simply has no other choice and otherwise he's not going to have any evidence (unless there's a real twist coming from one of the witnesses on the list we haven't anticipated).

i agree with other Wser who said, many pages ago, maybe Cohen is going to lie for Charlie? I can't envisage anyone else who can test-i-lie to extortion

 

[Blue Shakehead]

With that background as context, tell me now ANY evidence that contradicts the state's case. I mean, seriously, can you identify any evidence at all? ... In a case like this a man of means would ordinarily have some evidence through friends or his family to corroborate his innocence. It's not going to be Wendi. It's not going to be Donna or Harvey. Let that sink in. .... This is why I would put a large sum of money on the line betting CA is going to take the stand. He simply has no other choice and otherwise he's not going to have any evidence (unless there's a real twist coming from one of the witnesses on the list we haven't anticipated).

This is the reason for my paranoia. The Adelsons are evil. They are cold-blooded and calculating. And full of hubris. But they are not stupid and neither is Rashbaum. They know they are going to need someone/something to corroborate Charlie's fictional testimony, otherwise his life is over. So what or who is going to get up there and back up these lies?

 

[Hiller]

Has there been any discussion that I missed on current DA and HA surveillance, given that they are wealthy and are flight risks, particularly given today's DA calls?

 

[amicuscurie]

Something else that came to my mind is the fact that in September 2016 the probable cause affidavit was made public describing the basis behind this conclusion:

“Based on the above information, this investigator believes there is sufficient evidence to prove Charles Adelson, Katherine Magbanua, Sigfredo Garcia, and Luis Rivera are responsible for the murder of Daniel Markel.”

In 2019 Matt Shaer's podcast "Over My Dead Body - Tally" premiered with many of the wiretaps and much of the devastating evidence implicating Charlie and the Adelsons. The point being that it was not only no secret but was actually a widely held public belief that Charlie and the Adelsons were culpable for the murder of Dan Markel. Certainly, many commentators and public figures discussed the prospect of indictment for Charlie.

Any competent attorney representing Charlie and the Adelsons would have recognized that protecting Charlie from indictment would have been the top priority and most important duty owed to the client. Had there been ANY truth to the story that Dan had been murdered by independent actors who then extorted the Adelson family, you can be very certain the attorneys would have been bound to both document the extortion and take steps to make sure Katie and friends would be charged accordingly. To show up in 2023 for the very first time advancing this defense while keeping Wendi completely clueless and out of the loop is both outrageous and completely unbelievable.

Bear in mind that attorneys have an ethical obligation to report crimes. Most prominent defense lawyers generally handle clients like Charlie with a prefacing statement that they DO NOT WANT TO KNOW whether or not he is guilty or whether or not he is aware of other crimes. Such knowledge will present serious problems for counsel. I have several criminal defense lawyer friends who have explained this to me in detail.

I’m sure they will say he never told ANYBODY about the extortion. But, yes, he must’ve told Rash at some point. So Rash should have reported it. Extortion is not a crime for thr extorted person. And even if somehow it could be, it is also a lesser offense than murder, which your client is accused of. Same for Katie. Why isn’t she confessing, today, that she didn’t know about the murder, but once she found out she started extorting Charlie for it? Instead she’s confessing to murder?

 

[cottonweaver]

Lunch break is over

Call between CA & KM - don't know which exhibit.
CA bought a dildo for a married man with two kids. ( I have no idea who he's talking about. Anybody get that?) It's the ' do you want me to sell you my boat ' call

ETA: Georgia says the man is likely SG whose birthday was around this time

Pause - somebody else just got thrown out of court according to Joel

 

[Gypsy Road]

Omg I don’t mean to be 12 years old but I’m laughing my butt off.

 

[cottonweaver]

Georgia moves on.
Another bump May 4th 2016.
Georgia plays call SS
This bump was a text to Donna A

The 100K was what was on the flyer for the reward. That was on the flyer handed to Donna and also publicised to generl public

 

[Mariposa]

Georgia moves on.
Another bump May 4th 2016.
Georgia plays call SS View attachment 457440
This bump was a text to Donna A

The 100K was what was on the flyer for the reward. That was on the flyer handed to Donna and also publicised to generl public

I forgot the bump involved texting DA too! No wonder she was shaken up