FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #22

[Deleted member 302228]

Based on the testimony of both Wendi and Lacasse, there didn’t appear to be a hard ‘break-up’ date – the email Wendi sent after the ‘awkward’ yoga session was a one-week ‘no contact’ request. Obviously if Wendi had knowledge or was directly involved, the ‘no contact’ email was essentially Wendi ending of the relationship and I understand why its viewed as the ‘break-up’.

Right.
Jeffrey was even surprised that he didn’t hear from Wendi after the murder.
He mentioned that she called her other friends to Isom. But not him.
So if they were broken up he would not have expected any call.

So why did she call him twice in August?
The state has not brought that up at trial.
To plant the “celebration dinner” evidence?

Which brings me to the subject of the new Murder by Maestro (I don’t know what YT channels are allowed to be mentioned here),video on Whatsapp posted last night. Very interesting. I wonder if 10 years ago info was able to be gathered as it is today.

It's a very confusing situation which could have been by design. I think a lot of men would have "acted out" in frustration after receiving that email, had he done so, he would have looked more suspicious to police.

To add to the confusion, at the CA trial, JL testified that it seemed to him that their relationship was over at Yoga, but also testified that WA behaved as if they were still together in August, after the murder. But "planting" the celebration dinner doesn't make any sense. From JL's interview, it sounds like she was rambling and saying things that he found strange and alarming.

 

[Deleted member 302228]

Apologies if anyone already mentioned this but if Rash is called as a witness in DA's trial, he would not be able to represent DA as her attorney.

It is very, very unlikely that this will happen, but they have to waive any potential issues however unlikely.

 

[Knitpicker]

It's a very confusing situation which could have been by design. I think a lot of men would have "acted out" in frustration after receiving that email, had he done so, he would have looked more suspicious to police.

To add to the confusion, at the CA trial, JL testified that it seemed to him that their relationship was over at Yoga, but also testified that WA behaved as if they were still together in August, after the murder. But "planting" the celebration dinner doesn't make any sense. From JL's interview, it sounds like she was rambling and saying things that he found strange and alarming.

I don’t know. I give her more credit. She implicated him, and then shes talking to him and not mentioning that dinner for a reason?

 

[Going Rogue]

I think LaCasse has gotten his dates messed up at various points. I thought at one point he said the lockout was the same day as the yoga? I remember he said she was friendly earlier In the day when she called him about the lockout, but then her demeanor had changed completely later at the yoga class and he wondered what had happened or who she had spoken to in the interim. Then, he got the no contact email after the yoga class and that was the last time he heard from her before the murder.

I agree, some of the dates were mixed up, but the ‘breakup’ seemed to be something that neither of them pinned down to an exact date but it seemed inevitable even if Dan was never killed – at least that’s the vibe I got.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

What an incredible change in DA we saw today. Perhaps she is so relieved to not be waiting to be arrested that she can actually listen to good sense, and act upon such. She's not falling apart, she's getting stronger. I can hardly believe the change, in such a short time and under these circumstances.

OMO. My thought about the animated court appearance with impulsive commenting was that someone might have been experiencing some kind of withdrawal. I have the impression that Mama et al. were used to taking uppers and downers at whim, depending on what was going on. At the airport, there was seemingly a lot of concern about getting her baggie of “meds” to take with her to jail. Maybe breaking dependency at the start of incarceration was among a number of things affecting her demeanor. MOO. MOO.

 

[minusfour]

OMO. My thought about the animated court appearance with impulsive commenting was that someone might have been experiencing some kind of withdrawal. I have the impression that Mama et al. were used to taking uppers and downers at whim, depending on what was going on. At the airport, there was seemingly a lot of concern about getting her baggie of “meds” to take with her to jail. Maybe breaking dependency at the start of incarceration was among a number of things affecting her demeanor. MOO. MOO.

I must admit, I did wonder that too. I believe withdrawal from drugs like Xanax can be quite brutal. I'm really surprised she has managed to get herself together so quickly.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I must admit, I did wonder that too. I believe withdrawal from drugs like Xanax can be quite brutal. I'm really surprised she has managed to get herself together so quickly.

OMO. Actually the absolute fixation with moving her extended family south, and her obsession with control, and codependency with adult kids, was likely exacerbated by self medication and potential dependency. I know MJ can cause paranoia in some people, even too much caffeine makes some people cranky … I can only guess at side effects of all the other drugs people use. MOO.MOO.

 

[Knitpicker]

I agree, some of the dates were mixed up, but the ‘breakup’ seemed to be something that neither of them pinned down to an exact date but it seemed inevitable even if Dan was never killed – at least that’s the vibe I got.

Right. At first to Isom, he said it was the same day, then at trial he said it was Tuesday so I assumed it was really Tuesday.

 

[Knitpicker]

I must admit, I did wonder that too. I believe withdrawal from drugs like Xanax can be quite brutal. I'm really surprised she has managed to get herself together so quickly.

A YT channel host who seems to know, said she is probably medicated (sedated), by strong ,generic meds they can give her in jail.

 

[Knitpicker]

It's a very confusing situation which could have been by design. I think a lot of men would have "acted out" in frustration after receiving that email, had he done so, he would have looked more suspicious to police.

To add to the confusion, at the CA trial, JL testified that it seemed to him that their relationship was over at Yoga, but also testified that WA behaved as if they were still together in August, after the murder. But "planting" the celebration dinner doesn't make any sense. From JL's interview, it sounds like she was rambling and saying things that he found strange and alarming.

What reason did she have to call him? To find out what he knew and what he told Isom imo. And to once again implicate Charlie by mentioning the celebration dinner. I see I already responded to this. Sorry.

 

[amicuscurie]

What reason did she have to call him? To find out what he knew and what he told Isom imo. And to once again implicate Charlie by mentioning the celebration dinner. I see I already responded to this. Sorry.

Speaking generally, some self-centered people tend to just call whoever they think will listen.

 

[Knitpicker]

Speaking generally, some self-centered people tend to just call whoever they think will listen.

Yes,but the fact she called it a “‘celebration dinner”to him. I’m just saying the sole reason for her talking with him is to plant evidence against her brother again (Like the hitman joke).
Or to find out what Jeffrey told Isom..
Maybe I’m just giving her credit because I believe everything she has ever said or done has a motive. I think she pretends to be weak and needy,but she is anything but. She also was mad because Jeffrey was already dating someone else.
You have to listen carefully when Jeffrey tells Isom something like (About one of the August calls) ”she was mad I was dating….” And then Jeffrey cuts himself off.
He was going to say the name but stopped. Obviously someone Wendi knew.
I was surprised he was already dating someone else in such a short time.
Probably 10 days later after the murder. I forget which call he said it was but I know he spoke to her twice in August.I thought I remembered 10 days. May be wrong.The 10 days could have been how long after the murder he said she had the dinner,Anyway, him dating already was very odd considering how deeply snared by Wendi he was.
I think a counselor would not recommend a rebound relationship. But pls don’t throw stones!
Just thinking of some strange things re Jeffrey.

 

[Deleted member 302228]

Yes,but the fact she called it a “‘celebration dinner”to him. I’m just saying the sole reason for her talking with him is to plant evidence against her brother again (Like the hitman joke).
Or to find out what Jeffrey told Isom..
Maybe I’m just giving her credit because I believe everything she has ever said or done has a motive. I think she pretends to be weak and needy,but she is anything but. She also was mad because Jeffrey was already dating someone else.
You have to listen carefully when Jeffrey tells Isom something like (About one of the August calls) ”she was mad I was dating….” And then Jeffrey cuts himself off.
He was going to say the name but stopped. Obviously someone Wendi knew.
I was surprised he was already dating someone else in such a short time.
Probably 10 days later after the murder. I forget which call he said it was but I know he spoke to her twice in August.I thought I remembered 10 days. May be wrong.The 10 days could have been how long after the murder he said she had the dinner,Anyway, him dating already was very odd considering how deeply snared by Wendi he was.
I think a counselor would not recommend a rebound relationship. But pls don’t throw stones!
Just thinking of some strange things re Jeffrey.

You think it is odd that he started dating other people...after he told police they needed to investigate her for murder, that he suspected her involvement- and WA had moved to Miami?

 

[Going Rogue]

<modsnip - not an approved source> I’m trying to view things objectively and I will admit that in the past I have considered the possibility that Charlie & Donna did not involve Wendi in their sinister plans. I am fully aware of ALL the reasons that everyone believes Wendi was involved because they are drilled into everyone’s head by those the follow the case and those that dedicate countless hours on various social media outlets hosting channels or moderating forums. I am sure this post will compel people to want to list the reasons she was involved. As I said I’m aware of everything and I’m not trying to start a debate just sharing some thoughts – so you don’t have to list all the reasons she is guilty .

Had it not been for Jeff Lacasse, I think things may be viewed differently. Jeff Lacasse told the detectives within minutes of his police interview to ‘investigate’ Charlie. I have nothing against Jeff, but why does everyone seem so amazed that he ‘suspected’ or had the foresight to mention to the detectives that Charlie was likely involved? Wendi literally told Jeff the SAME week that Dan was murdered that Charlie looked into hiring a hitman! I see many people state ‘Jeff solved the crime’ within minutes of his police interview. He said what Wendi told him the week of the murder was ‘chilling’ and made Jeff’s ‘stomach flip’ so why is everyone giving Jeff credit for ‘solving’ the murder – isn’t this simple intuition based on what he was told?

IMO because most give Jeff all this credit for ‘solving’ the murder and being so perceptive, everything else Jeff said while looking in the rearview mirror is held with such high regard and opinions of certain events or actions may have been unfairly formed as a result. If we stick to the high level facts we know with a VERY high degree of certainty that Charlie, Donna, Katie, Sigfredo, & Luis ALL played a part in Dan’s death and should be held accountable. Wendi may have played a part in the planning or was aware, but that is speculation based on the evidence. Again, I am aware of everything listed as indicators of Wendi’s involvement and all the ‘coincidences’ – I think the usage of the word ‘coincidences’ when listing some of the case ‘facts’ or ‘details’ is being used improperly. I agree there are some events that we could call ‘coincidences’, but many that people cite as a coincidence are merely just events. My rant is not to say I think Wendi is innocent, and I sure some will view it that way, just starting to question things after hearing other perspectives with the recent coverage by other channel’s taking a fresh look.

 

[ch_13]

<modsnip - not an approved source>. I’m trying to view things objectively and I will admit that in the past I have considered the possibility that Charlie & Donna did not involve Wendi in their sinister plans. I am fully aware of ALL the reasons that everyone believes Wendi was involved because they are drilled into everyone’s head by those the follow the case and those that dedicate countless hours on various social media outlets hosting channels or moderating forums. I am sure this post will compel people to want to list the reasons she was involved. As I said I’m aware of everything and I’m not trying to start a debate just sharing some thoughts – so you don’t have to list all the reasons she is guilty .

Had it not been for Jeff Lacasse, I think things may be viewed differently. Jeff Lacasse told the detectives within minutes of his police interview to ‘investigate’ Charlie. I have nothing against Jeff, but why does everyone seem so amazed that he ‘suspected’ or had the foresight to mention to the detectives that Charlie was likely involved? Wendi literally told Jeff the SAME week that Dan was murdered that Charlie looked into hiring a hitman! I see many people state ‘Jeff solved the crime’ within minutes of his police interview. He said what Wendi told him the week of the murder was ‘chilling’ and made Jeff’s ‘stomach flip’ so why is everyone giving Jeff credit for ‘solving’ the murder – isn’t this simple intuition based on what he was told?

IMO because most give Jeff all this credit for ‘solving’ the murder and being so perceptive, everything else Jeff said while looking in the rearview mirror is held with such high regard and opinions of certain events or actions may have been unfairly formed as a result. If we stick to the high level facts we know with a VERY high degree of certainty that Charlie, Donna, Katie, Sigfredo, & Luis ALL played a part in Dan’s death and should be held accountable. Wendi may have played a part in the planning or was aware, but that is speculation based on the evidence. Again, I am aware of everything listed as indicators of Wendi’s involvement and all the ‘coincidences’ – I think the usage of the word ‘coincidences’ when listing some of the case ‘facts’ or ‘details’ is being used improperly. I agree there are some events that we could call ‘coincidences’, but many that people cite as a coincidence are merely just events. My rant is not to say I think Wendi is innocent, and I sure some will view it that way, just starting to question things after hearing other perspectives with the recent coverage by other channel’s taking a fresh look.

It wasn't just that JL told the police about Charlie's hitman joke. The police already knew that from Wendy Adelson herself.

He gave a very detailed portrait of Charlie's psyche. And he was probably the first to give the cops this insight. As a professor of Social Work, he had the background in psychology to be able the put into words the skeevy feeling that he was getting from Charlie when they met. I think I have more understanding of Charlie's character from JL's police interview than I do from any other source including the trials.

Jeffrey also described the Adelson family to a tee, calling them "enmeshed" and explaining how Wendi was babied by the others. It really does help to understand their motivation.

And finally, the details regarding his breakup and the questions Wendi asked him about his travel plans are some of the earliest circumstantial evidence that pointed to her knowing about the murder before the fact.

 

[Knitpicker]

You think it is odd that he started dating other people...after he told police they needed to investigate her for murder, that he suspected her involvement- and WA had moved to Miami?

Well I don’t want to make this a judgement I just thought it was strange myself. I’d think it would take time to get over what happened. But thats just me. I should have edited that comment but I was working and it was too late.

 

[Going Rogue]

It wasn't just that JL told the police about Charlie's hitman joke. The police already knew that from Wendy Adelson herself.

He gave a very detailed portrait of Charlie's psyche. And he was probably the first to give the cops this insight. As a professor of Social Work, he had the background in psychology to be able the put into words the skeevy feeling that he was getting from Charlie when they met. I think I have more understanding of Charlie's character from JL's police interview than I do from any other source including the trials.

Jeffrey also described the Adelson family to a tee, calling them "enmeshed" and explaining how Wendi was babied by the others. It really does help to understand their motivation.

And finally, the details regarding his breakup and the questions Wendi asked him about his travel plans are some of the earliest circumstantial evidence that pointed to her knowing about the murder before the fact.

Wendi told the hitman ‘joke’ not Jeff’s chilling and serious version – there is a major distinction. I think you are missing my point. I’m no trying to discredit Jeff, you don’t need to be a social worker or have a background in psychology to piece together that Charlie was a suspect if you heard what Jeff heard. DAYS before the murder Jeff was told that Charlie had seriously looked into hiring a hitman. He said it was chilling and made his stomach flip AND a few months prior he spent time in a hot tub with Charlie hearing stories firsthand about how he abused woman and hated Dan Markel with a passion. I think Jeff’s exact words were “I heard him say a hundred times how he wanted to kill Dan Markel”. My post was not meant to open up a debate on details or facts because we can all interpret events differently if we are willing to look at them objectively.

 

[amicuscurie]

Ok, i’ll bite. I was listening to some of the jail call and bump calls, particularly the “hot mic” call. On one of the bump calls, Charlie says to Donna that if they told Wendi, she would go to the police. This is strange to me. Why would Charlie think Wendi would go to the police if he knew Wendi herself was involved?

Later in the call, Donna says she wanted to go to the police, but Harvey said not to because they needed to protect Wendi, and she would be scared if she knew what was going on. This can be read different ways. Maybe Harvey wants to protect Wendi because she is involved. But- why does Donna say he is only worried about protecting Wendi? Wouldn’t he, assuming all of them are involved, want to protect all of them? Why does he even appear to indulge Donna’s suggestion to go to the police? Why wouldn’t he say “are you crazy?” instead of “ no, we have to protect Wendi?” This whole call is bizarre, to me. It is possible they know they are being recorded, and so they are trying to explain to the cops why they haven’t gone to the police. (Because reporting this extortion would scare Wendi.) But it’s still strange.

Then on the hot mic call, Donna seems to be incredulous that Wendi hasn’t even wanted to speak to Charlie, and she doesn’t understand why Wendi doesn’t want to talk to them. If Wendi was in on this with all of them and thus at risk herself, wouldn’t Donna get why Wendi doesn’t want to talk about it? And then, when she is reading Wendi’s text denying any involvement, she has these little asides, like “didn’t say she was.” Could Donna actually believe that Wendi was not involved, or not enough to implicate her legally? Could she believe that Charlie bears all of the responsibility for this, and so Wendi owes him a phone call, and there’s no harm in her calling him?

Hear me out: it appears to me that these people took every effort to keep Wendi out of the direct planning and execution of the murder. Thats what is frustrating a lot of us, it seems- the fact that there just isnt a lot of evidence on Wendi’s participation in the conspiracy, though much of her behavior suggests prior knowledge. Could it be that Donna, Charlie, and Harvey think that Wendi was NOT technically “involved” by their own definition, even though she might have had some knowledge?

Could it be that they have all along been keeping her under some “wink wink, don’t ask what we’re doing, do what we tell you” policy? Could it be that Wendi has been relying on their discretion and protection, and may have agreed to the murder only on the condition that they would leave her out of it? That would explain the defensive tone of that text from Wendi. We have seen that it appears Donna’s mouth may get her into trouble sometimes. Could it be that Donna told Wendi more than she was supposed to, or asked her to do more than she wanted to, or somehow keeps dragging her into this when she is trying to keep herself out of it?

Just something to think about. Please note: in my opinion, this does NOT excuse Wendi from, if she did know, stopping this from happening and/or distancing herself from her family and cooperating with the state. And, of course, there may be more evidence of her participation in the planning than we know about.

 

[IQuestion]

Speaking generally, some self-centered people tend to just call whoever they think will listen.

Yep...and lonely people or even someone who has inbibed a lot of alcohol? Hubs had a bachelor friend who would always call us after he had been drinking a lot. (Finally learned the benefits of letting calls go to the answering machine first and hear if he was slurring his words.)
Off the cuff question: If WA knew her brother had looked around to find a hitman in 2013... why didn't she back off on her whining, victimization stance and venom towards DM? Why continue the "he hurt their daughter" scenarios etc. Did she enjoy everyone in her family hating DM? The parents nor CA would have known anything about the court filings if it weren't for WA sharing the "unbearable treatment" she was forced to endure. (italicized to indicate feigned stress, hyperventilation and tons of tears.)
Repeating myself: WA was the flame and DA was the flamethrower.
PS: Just read AMCUSCURIE's post and brilliant as usual, snipped for focus:
"Could it be that Wendi has been relying on their discretion and protection, and may have agreed to the murder only on the condition that they would leave her out of it? That would explain the defensive tone of that text from Wendi. We have seen that it appears Donna’s mouth gets her into trouble. Could it be that Donna told Wendi more than she was supposed to, or asked her to do more than she wanted to, or somehow keeps dragging her into this when she is trying to keep herself out of it?"

 

[amicuscurie]

Yep...and lonely people or even someone who has inbibed a lot of alcohol? Hubs had a bachelor friend who would always call us after he had been drinking a lot. (Finally learned the benefits of letting calls go to the answering machine first and hear if he was slurring his words.)
Off the cuff question: If WA knew her brother had looked around to find a hitman in 2013... why didn't she back off on her whining, victimization stance and venom towards DM? Why continue the "he hurt their daughter" scenarios etc. Did she enjoy everyone in her family hating DM? The parents nor CA would have known anything about the court filings if it weren't for WA sharing the "unbearable treatment" she was forced to endure. (italicized to indicate feigned stress, hyperventilation and tons of tears.)
Repeating myself: WA was the flame and DA was the flamethrower.
PS: Just read AMCUSCURIE's post and brilliant as usual, snipped for focus:
"Could it be that Wendi has been relying on their discretion and protection, and may have agreed to the murder only on the condition that they would leave her out of it? That would explain the defensive tone of that text from Wendi. We have seen that it appears Donna’s mouth gets her into trouble. Could it be that Donna told Wendi more than she was supposed to, or asked her to do more than she wanted to, or somehow keeps dragging her into this when she is trying to keep herself out of it?"

Thank you. I clearly have a lot of free time.

Anyway, in my opinion it’s not as sinister or deliberate on Wendi’s part in terms of sharing what was going on in her marriage. In my opinion this family was so enmeshed that there was NOTHING she wasn’t going to share with her mother, NO aspect of this marriage that they all weren’t privy to. I honestly am of the opinion that she knew of no other way to behave. Remember, Donna selected Dan, she was a part of the relationship from the beginning. Ruth has said that there were three people in the marriage. I believe that Donna thought that whatever was happening to Wendi was happening to them all, and it has always been my opinion that Donna stood as much to gain from the murder as Wendi did, because, to her, it was her own life/divorce/ex/kids. Those emails suggest to me that there may have been no separation in Donna’s mind between herself and Wendi, to the extent that she seamlessly switches into the first person at one point, from “you” to “I,” when she is making arguments in favor of relocation.

I am somewhat surprised by Wendi’s apparent attempt, in that text on the hot mic, to distance herself at this point. That text, in my opinion, reads like a lawyer’s advice as to what to say to create a record that you were not involved in a murder. Now, why might someone feel it necessary to do that? Perhaps, speaking hypothetically, it is because you know who IS involved, and your proximity to them is starting to create problems for you, because they may be starting to say and do things which appear to throw suspicion on you, and they don’t even realize they’re doing that. Just my opinion.

Also, regarding Donna’s and Charlie’s discussions of going to the police about the bump, this could be because they believe the cops are listening. But, could it also be that these people may have deluded themselves into thinking they were so insulated from the actual shooters that even if they went to the police about the bump, the crime itself could never be traced to them? This would explain why Harvey seems to think that the only reason not to report the bump would be so as not to scare Wendi. Could it be that they are not aware that the reason the police are possibly listening in is not because they are just “fishing” (as they say,) but because they believe the family is involved? Are they really hoping it is the police, because that is less scary a prospect than gang member extortionists? Donna appears to me to be relieved on some of the bump calls when Charlie tells her he thinks it’s the cops.

And, regarding not scaring WendI, they talk about how she has been scared since the crime happened. Do they mean scared of getting caught, or have they told her some version of the extortion story and that bad guys are out there? Have they told Harvey the same?

Or, am I overthinking this, and they are in fact speaking this way because they know they are being recorded?