FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #22

[cottonweaver]

@cottonweaver good questions. I don't think any of us can figure out what he's doing. He certainly is saying good things about his clients, so I get that. Maybe he feels he is appealing to a potential jury pool. However, I would imagine if a juror is so down in the weeds to be watching these videos about this case, wouldn't they reveal that and then be dumped by the defense? I don't know.

Both guests are lawyers and they are baffled as to why he did this

imo we are weirdo-nerds - jurors surely won't be following this case closely and in any case Rashbaum's staff will trawl potential juror's SM accounts as they did at CA's trial. ( I do think juries in TLH might see Dateline and the arrest bodycams)

Not sure what DR's game is. Last time he wanted to drop a surprise defense theory onto the state.

Tim J is pondering whether DR is too close to the family.

Next scoop - Dan has been officially adopted by the Adelsons and written into the family will in event of all A's being prosecuted and convicted. ( Just kidding)

 

[Missyrocks5]

imo we are weirdo-nerds - jurors surely won't be following this case closely and in any case Rashbaum's staff will trawl potential juror's SM accounts as they did at CA's trial. ( I do think juries in TLH might see Dateline and the arrest bodycams)

Not sure what DR's game is. Last time he wanted to drop a surprise defense theory onto the state.

Tim J is pondering whether DR is too close to the family.

Next scoop - Dan has been officially adopted by the Adelsons and written into the family will in event of all A's being prosecuted and convicted. ( Just kidding)

Adopted by the A's lol.

 

[amicuscurie]

Today new discovery was turned over per the docket - "Continuum Leasing Documents". What could it mean? Did they get Wendi a lease there before the hit was committed? Perhaps during Harvey's birthday weekend?

I believe that Continuum is where Charlie got a rental place for them to use on weekends, this was prior to the murder. Wendi mentions this weekend place in her police interview. I believe that this is where Harvey’s birthday celebration took place. Katie testified that the photo of her on the beach with Wendi was taken on the beach in front of that condo building. I believe the parents didn’t move into the Icon until after the murder, when Wendi moved down to South Fla.

 

[amicuscurie]

potentially, that sounds promising.
Yes I believe they feathered a nest for Wendi in advance, in preparation for her move to S FLA but I didn't know which condo, leased before Fathers Day


maybe @amicuscurie wish comes true? ( They've been raising the issue of dates for that Condo for a while)

100 S Pointe Dr Miami Beach FL 33139 - address for Continuum building but yes, it's where the photo of WA, KM and Jacindra was taken on fathers day 2014

Yes. Continuum is near the Icon. Charlie rented a place there around the time of the murder. They didn’t live in the Icon until after the murder, I think. I am glad it seems the state is now aware of this.

 

[Zedzded]

Can someone clarify:

The night of the hit when Dan was shot, KM went to CA's house and stayed the night. At what point did DA and HA drop off the "laundered" money? Was it that night? Because if it was, he wasn't being extorted at that stage....

 

[amicuscurie]

Can someone clarify:

The night of the hit when Dan was shot, KM went to CA's house and stayed the night. At what point did DA and HA drop off the "laundered" money? Was it that night? Because if it was, he wasn't being extorted at that stage....

Katie said on the stand that when she got to Charlie’s house on the night of the murder, Charlie told her his parents had already been there. Cell tower records presented at trial have Donna‘s cell phone near his house that night, around 7pm. There is also a text from Donna to Charlie, shown at trial, that says “outside your house,” this text was also sent around 7pm, if I recall correctly. Cell tower records show Katie‘s phone a location near Charlie’s house after that.

 

[Zedzded]

Katie said on the stand that when she got to Charlie’s house on the night of the murder, Charlie told her his parents had already been there. Cell tower records presented at trial have Donna‘s cell phone near his house that night, around 7pm. There is also a text from Donna to Charlie, shown at trial, that says “outside your house,” this text was also sent around 7pm, if I recall correctly. Cell tower records show Katie‘s phone a location near Charlie’s house after that. Charlie said she came over that night and told him about the murder and that she would give the killers money to “protect” him.

Right, so that doesn't work for his theory about the extortion or DA's supposed defence that she was told by CA he was being extorted?

The supposed extortion happened when KM got to CA's house and this was after DA and HA had dropped off the $$. Is that right?

 

[ch_13]

Listening now to the Dan Rahbaum Q&A. @10:35, this snippet was funny to me:

"It was very important that the government not know what his defense was. That was our strategy and it worked."

In what way did it work? His client was found guilty on all counts and got life in prison. That's sort of the definition of a defense strategy not working.

 

[flay012995]

In Donna's trial, the extortion defense might work on her, the defense will call Charlie again on the witness stand to support the defense claims and it will be a different set of jurors that will deliberate.

 

[ch_13]

@cottonweaver good questions. I don't think any of us can figure out what he's doing. He certainly is saying good things about his clients, so I get that. Maybe he feels he is appealing to a potential jury pool. However, I would imagine if a juror is so down in the weeds to be watching these videos about this case, wouldn't they reveal that and then be dumped by the defense? I don't know.

Both guests are lawyers and they are baffled as to why he did this

Maybe he's auditioning for a spot as a CourtTV talking head.

I'm only half-kidding. But It's a pretty lucrative gig to be one of those attorneys who's constantly on television opining on whatever case is in the news.

 

[BSBC]

Listening now to the Dan Rahbaum Q&A. @10:35, this snippet was funny to me:

"It was very important that the government not know what his defense was. That was our strategy and it worked."

In what way did it work? His client was found guilty on all counts and got life in prison. That's sort of the definition of a defense strategy not working.

By “it worked,” I think he meant that he was successful in keeping his defense theory secret until the trial. But who cares? I suspect his client is more concerned about the fact that the defense theory didn’t “work[]” with a single juror…

 

[Zedzded]

Joel should have asked DR about Wendi perjuring herself multiple times. DR excused WA's circuitous route down Trescott with her lame excuse of having a poor sense of direction, but her route changed 4 times.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Maybe he's auditioning for a spot as a CourtTV talking head.

I'm only half-kidding. But It's a pretty lucrative gig to be one of those attorneys who's constantly on television opining on whatever case is in the news.

That’s a good angle! Maybe that explains it

 

[amicuscurie]

Last night, if I recall correctly, believe Rash said something to the effect that the A’s spoke with the police on the day of the funeral, and then were not asked to speak with them again.

According to Epstein’s book (he says he interviewed the investigators), here is what happened:

On the day of the funeral, at the synagogue, (maybe as they were leaving or when they were entering, I don’t recall), detectives asked DA and HA if they would come in and talk to them while they were in town. They left town the next day and did not talk to the police before they left.

So- Rash says they “talked to the police” the day of the funeral. Per Epstein’s book, they did indeed speak to police that day. But per Epstein’s book, in they did not sit for an interview or talk to the investigators about the case at all at that time. (Indeed, to me it makes little sense that they would have talked about the case or done an interview at the synagogue).

Rash acknowledges that they didn’t speak to the police except for that one time on the day of the funeral. He says the police “didnt ask.“ But in my opinion this could be misleading- per Epstein’s book, the police DID ask to them to come in and speak to them, when they spoke that one time at the funeral.

 

[amicuscurie]

By “it worked,” I think he meant that he was successful in keeping his defense theory secret until the trial. But who cares? I suspect his client is more concerned about the fact that the defense theory didn’t “work[]” with a single juror…

Speaking hypothetically and not about this particular case, if your defense depends on the element of surprise, would that not, hypothetically, imply that you believe it would not hold up before a prosecutor who had any amount of advance notice of it?

 

[opt]

I suspect his client is more concerned about the fact that the defense theory didn’t “work[]” with a single juror…

Except one alternate juror, by all appearances.

 

[Honeynut]

Maybe he's auditioning for a spot as a CourtTV talking head.

I'm only half-kidding. But It's a pretty lucrative gig to be one of those attorneys who's constantly on television opining on whatever case is in the news.

I'm getting Jose Baez vibes...

 

[JerseyPride]

Unsurprisingly, DR made many, many self-serving statements on behalf of DA during the STS interview. One that really had me shaking my head was his statement that he personally would not have called the police if he believed the bump was an extortion attempt. Why?, because during his tenure as a federal prosecutor, he received death threats and found the police response to be largely ineffective. So let me get this straight, because calling the police could be less than a perfect solution, you would forgo that option altogether? Give me a break, sir. Wearing a helmet while riding a bike doesn't guarantee your safety in the event you get hit by a car. Does that mean you don't make your kids wear one? Of course not. Why?, because wearing a helmet has the POTENTIAL to minimize a head injury. It certainly doesn't make things any worse. Similarly, locking your car doesn't guarantee that it won't get broken into but it can certainly reduce the risk. I doubt counselor leaves his car unlocked based on the lock's less than 100% effectiveness in preventing theft.

It was also rather embarrassing to hear DR triple down on the talking point that "there was no talking in code on the wires" because there wasn't a pre-arranged agreement about which words to use as code. Thus, referring to the bump undercover as the "patient" and the extortion demand as "this TV" wasn't "code". Rather, it was just careful talk. Barf. Coded communication does not require the parties to exchange an answer key before speaking (e.g., cat really means dog) it requires a mutual understanding of the intended meaning of the substituted word. CA and DA mutually understood the intended meaning of "patient" and "this TV" and "relationship advice" which were CODES for other things.

 

[IQuestion]

Last night, if I recall correctly, believe Rash said something to the effect that the A’s spoke with the police on the day of the funeral, and then were not asked to speak with them again.

According to Epstein’s book (he says he interviewed the investigators), here is what happened:

On the day of the funeral, at the synagogue, (maybe as they were leaving or when they were entering, I don’t recall), detectives asked DA and HA if they would come in and talk to them while they were in town. They left town the next day and did not talk to the police before they left.

So- Rash says they “talked to the police” the day of the funeral. Per Epstein’s book, they did indeed speak to police that day. But per Epstein’s book, in they did not sit for an interview or talk to the investigators about the case at all at that time. (Indeed, to me it makes little sense that they would have talked about the case or done an interview at the synagogue).

Rash acknowledges that they didn’t speak to the police except for that one time on the day of the funeral. He says the police “didnt ask.“ But in my opinion this could be misleading- per Epstein’s book, the police DID ask to them to come in and speak to them, when they spoke that one time at the funeral.

You got me kiddo. This guy could put a spin on a tornado...details, details, details. Technically telling police, "Could you move your police car out of our way, you are blocking the u-haul."...is technically talking to LE, huh? And, "going to the airport is not a crime or a sign of guilt." Technically not. However, I and probably every juror will find it exceedingly suspicious that it was scheduled the day after CA's conviction for murder, they (DA/HA) suddenly had the need to arrange "end-of-life-irrevocable-trusts" (in the event of what?) and a one-way 17 hour flight to a non-extradition country??? If they needed a vacay away from it all...drive to a beachside comminity and turn off your cell phones?
I tried (I really tried) to listen to "Brash-baum" and found it to be an assault on the limits of believability. I thought he was overbearing, exceedingly rude and not likable in the trial. Now after listening to STS interview, my opinion has not changed.

 

[Windward Gal]

There were many moments during Rashbaum’s interview that turned my stomach. I had a very hard time watching it to the end but I did. Bringing up Dan Markel’s name and scholarship to defend his killers was beyond despicable. I hope a gag order will be put in place.