FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[amicuscurie]

My understanding (and its way past my bedtime) is that Charlie had a condo in Aventura that he shared with another guy-maybe Ryan F. I can’t remember.
He was discussing on a wire tap about his parents renting another apartment in the same building. He didn’t share any S Beach apartment with them. He lived full time in Ft Lauderdale, 45 minutes away.
D and H already had their own place rented in the Icon.
They stayed there TH-Sun as H was still working M-F.

I disagree. The place they lived on weekends before the murder was the place in the Continuum. They didnt start renting in the Icon until after the murder. Charlie had a separate place in FLL, but I think he also used the apartment in Continuum from time to time. Again, Katie testified the beach photo was taken at Continuum. Harvey’s birthday was there, and there is a text before the murder from Donna to Charlie asking whether he wanted to use the apartment that weekend. I believe that apartment was in Continuum. Unless there is evidence that they leased the apartment at the Icon before the murder. I don’t believe that’s the case, I believe they moved there afterward. In the bump calls, Donna is talking about renting another unit at the Icon, most likely because the one she’s in is up for sale.

 

[Knitpicker]

They didn’t have the apartment at the Icon, I don’t believe, until after the murder. They lived with Wendi at Contunuum at first, then they each got places of their own later.

My understanding is that they rented in the ICON at the same time they got the place at the Continuim.
Yes, that is where they were on the beach photo.
Yindra probably could have confirmed that, but she was not asked specifically about that.
Tomorrow, I’ll work on this.
I always wondered how Wendi shared a 2 bedroom with her parents and the boys for a year. It never made sense, these are millionaires. D and H would have rented a 3 bedroom if they were going to share a place with W and boys.

 

[amicuscurie]

My understanding is that they rented in the ICON at the same time they got the place at the Continuim.

Do you have evidence for that? Are there 2 leases? That would be super interesting. That was never my impression, but it could be, if the evidence bears it out.

 

[Knitpicker]

Do you have evidence for that? Are there 2 leases? That would be super interesting. That was never my impression, but it could be, if the evidence bears it out.

I edited my last comment. Now past my bedtime, I’ll be up all night pumping cortisol…I will try and get the facts tomorrow. You can get the info online-at least I saw it 2 years ago. Two different addresses for D and H on Alton Rd. (The Icon).

 

[Going Rogue]

Of course it does speak more to Donnas part, but when Wendi found out her lease was up in May 2015, you don’t think she would have known her family was in on it?
Now I know you are going to say that this also doesn’t implicate Wendi, but we know she admits that she stopped speaking to her parents about the murder in 2016, right?
So she is fine letting her mother raise her kids when they had her ex husband, and the father of the kids murdered?
As Georgia says, “use your common sense”.

I’m having a difficult time following your points... Wendi's lease? Maybe tomorrow you can try to clarify your thoughts and theory on these multiple apartments. As I said the apartment they (allegedly) rented for Wendi is not new information. Hare a good night.

 

[Knitpicker]

I disagree. The place they lived on weekends before the murder was the place in the Continuum. They didnt start renting in the Icon until after the murder. Charlie had a separate place in FLL, but I think he also used the apartment in Continuum from time to time. Again, Katie testified the beach photo was taken at Continuum. Harvey’s birthday was there, and there is a text before the murder from Donna to Charlie asking whether he wanted to use the apartment that weekend. I believe that apartment was in Continuum. Unless there is evidence that they leased the apartment at the Icon before the murder. I don’t believe that’s the case, I believe they moved there afterward. In the bump calls, Donna is talking about renting another unit at the Icon, most likely because the one she’s in is up for sale.

yes, we know where the photos were taken and that Wendi was living there.
I will have to continue this discussion tomorrow. My brain needs sleep.

 

[Knitpicker]

I’m having a difficult time following your points... Wendi's lease? Maybe tomorrow you can try to clarify your thoughts and theory on these multiple apartments. As I said the apartment they (allegedly) rented for Wendi is not new information. Hare a good night.

The fact that she lived there alone with the boys, while her parents had their own apartment, I believe is new information. And when it was rented. I will try and get the facts about this tomorrow.

 

[Zedzded]

d

 

[Zedzded]

No, this was specifically for Wendi.
They has a place already rented in the ICON.

Thats why it is such an important piece of evidence.
If she never put her address on that work order for Dans roof, it would never have been found out.
Patty found it.

What is the order for Dan's roof and why is it relevant? I've never heard about that.

 

[Going Rogue]

The fact that she lived there alone with the boys, while her parents had their own apartment, I believe is new information. And when it was rented. I will try and get the facts about this tomorrow.

I went back and reviewed your last several posts after my morning coffee. I agree it could be relevant data if Donna and Harvey rented a ‘third’ place in S. Florida prior to Dan’s murder. I know it was always a ‘theory’ they were inquiring on another place prior to the murder, and there was speculation it was in anticipation of Wendi’s pending arrival. Going on memory I don’t recall that they actually signed another lease prior to Dan’s murder AND a third place? I’d also need to hear again what Patty was reporting, I thought it was just that Wendi gave an address other than Coral Springs on the work order for the roof repair - but maybe I missed something? If that was the ‘first’ (Patty’s discovery) time the state (or public) had proof of another rental I can see how that could be very relevant depending on the timing. If you are researching this, I am interested in the true details here.

 

[Knitpicker]

I went back and reviewed your last several posts after my morning coffee. I agree it could be relevant data if Donna and Harvey rented a ‘third’ place in S. Florida prior to Dan’s murder. I know it was always a ‘theory’ they were inquiring on another place prior to the murder, and there was speculation it was in anticipation of Wendi’s pending arrival. Going on memory I don’t recall that they actually signed another lease prior to Dan’s murder AND a third place? I’d also need to hear again what Patty was reporting, I thought it was just that Wendi gave an address other than Coral Springs on the work order for the roof repair - but maybe I missed something? If that was the ‘first’ (Patty’s discovery) time the state (or public) had proof of another rental I can see how that could be very relevant depending on the timing. If you are researching this, I am interested in the true details here.

I don’t want to be wrong, but the information started with True (Susan)and then Patty started with the info of the apartments(condos).I thought I had it all straightened out ,as far as facts, but Amiscurie seemed to differ, and perhaps he/she is right and I am wrong.
I did not think W lived at the Continuim with her parents,
I know thats what most thought in the past, including myself.

I am going to have to revisit all those videos and that will take some time, and tomorrow I have a 4 day conference out of town so unless someone else does it first, it is going to have to wait. I don’t have the time today as I have a lot to do before I leave.

 

[amicuscurie]

I look forward to what you find, Knitpicker! Don’t be afraid of being wrong, happens to me all the time.

I still think that for some time after the murder they were all living together, in Continuum. Remember she did that writing podcast in 2015 where she said they were all living with her parents and her mom was there helping with the kids, folding laundry, etc. I don’t think she was lying on the podcast, and I don’t think Mom was just coming over from Icon to help. I think they were all living in the one place.

She did say in her police interview that her parents were living part time in South Beach and sharing an apartment with Charlie. That’s another reason I believe the parents were in the Continuum place, because Charlie never lived at Icon, as far as I know. She could have been making that up, but it all fits, especially with Katie saying the beach photo was taken at Continuum. There would be no reason IMO for Katie to be at Continuum if Charlie wasn’t living there or visiting the parents there.

Perhaps when W was visiting, (before the murder), there wasn’t room for all of them, and Katie and Charlie spent the nights at his place in FLL. That’s what seems to have been the case during Harvey’s bday, when cell tower records show the parents and Wendi pinging from South Beach. The towers for Icon and Continuum are close together, and the cop at Charlie’s trial testified that Wendi’s text to Dan was consistent with coming from the Icon. I believe this was an error.

Another reason I think they all lived together in Continuum is that as far as I know, the Continuum place was a 3 bedroom, whereas the Icon was only a 2BR. If they had rented Continuum just for W, (and got a separate place in Icon for themselves), it seems to me they would not have needed a 3 BR. (The boys don’t appear to me to have their own rooms even now).

Indeed, it is interesting to me that they felt they needed to rent a 3 BR to “share with Charlie,” and it doesn’t by any means lessen the suspicion that they rented it with the murder plot in mind. For me, their renting a 3br suggests they may have been preparing for W to move into it with them at some point. To me it’s a little unbelievable that they wanted to live “part time” only an hour from their home, or that they wanted to split a weekend place with their son, or that they, (as Wendi said in her police interview,) wanted to see how they liked it in preparation to retire there.

Again, to me, the more likely explanation is that they rented a 3br in Continuum before the murder with the expectation that Wendi would live with them there after the murder, until she got back on her feet. I think they most likely also realized that renting two separate apartments prior to the murder might be more difficult to explain. (That’s why I would be very interested if there did turn out to be a second lease that the state has uncovered).

I do think to the extent she gave the impression that she ever went back and lived with them in Coral Springs after the murder, that was not correct.

I believe the state now knows exactly where everyone was living, and when. We shall see.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

As to the possible set up of LaCasse, it's interesting to listen to Jane and Wendi discuss Jeff in the police interview room. I'm very curious to know Jane's take on that discussion today. Does she think Wendi primed the pump by claiming Jeff' had a jealous nature in the days prior to the shooting, or did she bring up Jeff organically?

Jane is just one of several people in Wendi's orbit who have never spoken publicly about the case. (The women that Wendi met for lunch that day are also in that category.) One way or another, their testimony could end up playing a large factor at trial.

The LaCasse discussion starts at 2:13:34:

Just got to add and thank you ch-13 for posting this!

What a troubling and disturbing interview technique IMO. The individual on the right….. is that WA best friend? Or a detective? A lawyer? A friend? Or what? (And WA is in the middle, yes?)

She (person on the right) was IMO ‘stepping’ all over any attempts to have the individual WA answer? And kept speaking over top of all! And offering answers and responses! And IMO ‘fawning’ all over WA, comforting her, rubbing WA back and arm….. etc. SMH And in the interview, WA seemed devoid of any emotion IMO.

It seemed as if she would not let the investigator on the left inquire. That was IMO difficult and disturbing to watch. IMO she should have been removed from the room.

And if it was not WA counsel or advocate, just have to ask WITH was that individual doing? And WITH was she present in the room?

Simply astonishing. Granted I’ve not been able to follow every single interview or testimony in the case (many players) but I sure missed this one somehow. And to I believe another point in the other post, that individual on the right just might IMO know a LOT more about this case than some may think? If there are ever civil suits in this matter IMO that individual just maybe should be subpoenaed and deposed? MOO

 

[Going Rogue]

I look forward to what you find, Knitpicker! Don’t be afraid of being wrong, happens to me all the time.

I still think that for some time after the murder they were all living together, in Continuum. Remember she did that writing podcast in 2015 where she said they were all living with her parents and her mom was there helping with the kids, folding laundry, etc. I don’t think she was lying on the podcast, and I don’t think Mom was just coming over from Icon to help. I think they were all living in the one place.

She did say in her police interview that her parents were living part time in South Beach and sharing an apartment with Charlie. That’s another reason I believe the parents were in the Continuum place, because Charlie never lived at Icon, as far as I know. She could have been making that up, but it all fits, especially with Katie saying the beach photo was taken at Continuum. There would be no reason IMO for Katie to be at Continuum if Charlie wasn’t living there or visiting the parents there.

Perhaps when W was visiting, (before the murder), there wasn’t room for all of them, and Katie and Charlie spent the nights at his place in FLL. That’s what seems to have been the case during Harvey’s bday, when cell tower records show the parents and Wendi pinging from South Beach. The towers for Icon and Continuum are close together, and the cop at Charlie’s trial testified that Wendi’s text to Dan was consistent with coming from the Icon. I believe this was an error.

Another reason I think they all lived together in Continuum is that as far as I know, the Continuum place was a 3 bedroom, whereas the Icon was only a 2BR. If they had rented Continuum just for W, (and got a separate place in Icon for themselves), it seems to me they would not have needed a 3 BR. (The boys don’t appear to me to have their own rooms even now).

Indeed, it is interesting to me that they felt they needed to rent a 3 BR to “share with Charlie,” and it doesn’t by any means lessen the suspicion that they rented it with the murder plot in mind. For me, their renting a 3br suggests they may have been preparing for W to move into it with them at some point. To me it’s a little unbelievable that they wanted to live “part time” only an hour from their home, or that they wanted to split a weekend place with their son, or that they, (as Wendi said in her police interview,) wanted to see how they liked it in preparation to retire there.

Again, to me, the more likely explanation is that they rented a 3br in Continuum before the murder with the expectation that Wendi would live with them there after the murder, until she got back on her feet. I think they most likely also realized that renting two separate apartments prior to the murder might be more difficult to explain. (That’s why I would be very interested if there did turn out to be a second lease that the state has uncovered).

I do think to the extent she gave the impression that she ever went back and lived with them in Coral Springs after the murder, that was not correct.

I believe the state now knows exactly where everyone was living, and when. We shall see.

I agree with you. I will be surprised if in addition to Coral Springs, Donna and Harvey had two (2) other apartments rented in S. Florida before the murder. You are correct, Donna and Harvey had a place at the Continuum as early as July of 2014. I highly doubt they also had the place at the Icon before Dan’s murder. If they did have two rentals in S. Fl (in addition to Coral Springs) before Dan’s murder I can’t imagine this would be a detail that escaped me as closely as I follow the case.

During Patty\s collab with Judy (AA Legal), all I recall her saying was that Wendi didn’t use the Coral Springs address on the work order on the roof repair for Dan’s house and she reported that to the FBI. What does this mean? Probably nothing, because I would assume Wendi used on the Continuum address on the work order. I’m going to guess that Patty probably wasn’t aware that Donna and Harvey had the rental (before the murder) at the Continuum? If there was in fact a ‘third’ place AND a lease was signed before Dan’s murder, I’m interested in hearing more otherwise that fact that Wendi used the other address on the work order is not really relevant – at least how I see it, but maybe I’m missing something?

 

[ch_13]

What a troubling and disturbing interview technique IMO. The individual on the right….. is that WA best friend? Or a detective? A lawyer? A friend? Or what? (And WA is in the middle, yes?)

She (person on the right) was IMO ‘stepping’ all over any attempts to have the individual WA answer? And kept speaking over top of all! And offering answers and responses! And IMO ‘fawning’ all over WA, comforting her, rubbing WA back and arm….. etc. SMH And in the interview, WA seemed devoid of any emotion IMO.

The person on the right is Jane McPherson who at the time was a friend and confidant of Wendi. In the days prior to the shooting, it's known she had a long heart-to-heart with Wendi. And in the interrogation room, she's the one who brought up Jeff as a possible suspect.

There's been a lot of online commentary about Jane and her behavior at this interview as well as at Dan's funeral, I think a lot of it unfair. People don't always act well in stressful situations. As far as I know she's never spoken publicly about the murder and the current status of her friendship with Wendi is unknown. One important question is exactly what did Wendi tell Jane about Jeff prior to the shooting. Did she say he was madly jealous and angry at Dan Markel?

 

[amicuscurie]

Just got to add and thank you ch-13 for posting this!

What a troubling and disturbing interview technique IMO. The individual on the right….. is that WA best friend? Or a detective? A lawyer? A friend? Or what? (And WA is in the middle, yes?)

She (person on the right) was IMO ‘stepping’ all over any attempts to have the individual WA answer? And kept speaking over top of all! And offering answers and responses! And IMO ‘fawning’ all over WA, comforting her, rubbing WA back and arm….. etc. SMH And in the interview, WA seemed devoid of any emotion IMO.

It seemed as if she would not let the investigator on the left inquire. That was IMO difficult and disturbing to watch. IMO she should have been removed from the room.

And if it was not WA counsel or advocate, just have to ask WITH was that individual doing? And WITH was she present in the room?

Simply astonishing. Granted I’ve not been able to follow every single interview or testimony in the case (many players) but I sure missed this one somehow. And to I believe another point in the other post, that individual on the right just might IMO know a LOT more about this case than some may think? If there are ever civil suits in this matter IMO that individual just maybe should be subpoenaed and deposed?

Dbm

 

[amicuscurie]

I agree with you. I will be surprised if in addition to Coral Springs, Donna and Harvey had two (2) other apartments rented in S. Florida before the murder. You are correct, Donna and Harvey had a place at the Continuum as early as July of 2014. I highly doubt they also had the place at the Icon before Dan’s murder. If they did have two rentals in S. Fl (in addition to Coral Springs) before Dan’s murder I can’t imagine this would be a detail that escaped me as closely as I follow the case.

During Patty\s collab with Judy (AA Legal), all I recall her saying was that Wendi didn’t use the Coral Springs address on the work order on the roof repair for Dan’s house and she reported that to the FBI. What does this mean? Probably nothing, because I would assume Wendi used on the Continuum address on the work order. I’m going to guess that Patty probably wasn’t aware that Donna and Harvey had the rental (before the murder) at the Continuum? If there was in fact a ‘third’ place AND a lease was signed before Dan’s murder, I’m interested in hearing more otherwise that fact that Wendi used the other address on the work order is not really relevant – at least how I see it, but maybe I’m missing something?

Exactly, or as W would say “that sounds right.”

ETA: the more I think about it, the more I find the rental of the Continuum place to be suspicious and to make little sense in my opinion. JMO, of course.

We know from the bump calls that as of 2016, nearly 2 years after they rented the place in South Beach, H is apparently still working several days per week and commuting from South Beach an hour each way. The Coral Springs home, by contrast, is like ten minutes from the office, as I understand it. So, if the plan was to eventually retire in South Beach, that didn’t happen, and instead H appears to have taken on a greater commute for some reason.

Why? Why wouldn’t they all just stay in Coral Springs after the murder, in what I believe was their 5br home, and abandon the “weekend place” to Charlie? Especially if H was going to continue to work ten minutes away for two more years? Why keep the place, after the murder?

One theory is that perhaps South Beach was viewed as a better place for a young widow to settle if she wanted to meet someone. Perhaps they came to that realization after the murder, and just happened to have the South Beach condo to hang on to. Such good fortune! But- more likely in my opinion, especially given that I believe they took the lease on the place only weeks before the murder, perhaps the apartment was rented with that in mind in the first place.

In the emails surrounding the relocation, the plan, per Donna, appears to have been for W and the boys to move in with them in Coral Springs. But what actually happened was very different. That has always puzzled me. Did something, or someone, change that plan when relocation failed and things escalated to a murder plot?

 

[Reporter-C.Lin]

My personal thought- the ex-wife is in on this. I hope they will also charge her of at least conspiracy to commit a murder.

 

[IQuestion]

My personal thought- the ex-wife is in on this. I hope they will also hold her responsible.

Hi @ REPORTER-C.LIN Nice of you to join here. "Personal thoughts" are not only a given, but also welcome! An indicator of what the man/woman juror might also think?

 

[Zedzded]

Why is Det Isom being called as a witness for the defence?