FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #23

[Going Rogue]

I recall that 11:00 seems to a “time” for Jeffrey. Didn’t he says somewhere he is not a morning person and that Wendi knew this?
Possibly when his classes were and when he made it out in the morning. .
As 8 am may be to someone else.
Did he never tell Wendi what time he was leaving?
I assumed he did.

Yes, in one of his testimonies (not sure if it was the was the 1st or 2nd trial) he said something like ~ “she knows I’m not a late riser and that I’d be leaving at around 11:00am”. Not a direct quote, but similar. Further to my point that he convinced himself ‘subconsciously’ that she knew he was leaving at 11:00am.

 

[Wishbone]

The great George Constanza once said “if you believe it, it’s not a lie”. Perjury works the same way, the lie has to be a conscience lie and said purposely. I seriously think Jeff believes she knew he was ‘planning’ on leaving at 11:00an on Friday. He literally told Isom that ‘he probably told others and she probably found out from others’. As I said he is doing this as the subconscious level - he convinced himself she knew his exact departure time. The defense could Impeach Jeff’s testimony, but as far as the the prosecution going after Jeff on perjury charges, to quote Charlie - “not in a million years”.

As far as the ‘timestamps’, I know there is another ‘post’ on this exact topic in another ‘place’ where those are given. I will follow up with you on that later today when I have some time. It shouldn’t take me more than 10 minutes to dig that up, I just need to get in front of my PC.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't WA text or email JL asking if he was still leaving on his trip as planned? This contact by WA was after she told JL not to contact her anymore. Doesn't make sense to contact him when she insisted on going no contact to begin with.

 

[Going Rogue]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't WA text or email JL asking if he was still leaving on his trip as planned? This contact by WA was after she told JL not to contact her anymore. Doesn't make sense to contact him when she insisted on going no contact to begin with.

What you are thinking of is the last conversation they had in the parking lot that Monday or Tuesday before the murder after their yoga class. Per Jeff, Wendi had a ‘deep’ interest in knowing whether he still planned on going on his TN trip and upon reflection he found that odd since she hit him e-mail that evening asking for ‘no contact’ for a week. I agree its suspicious, but I also wonder if she was trying to line him up to babysit Friday night while she attended the stock-the-bar party.

 

[amicuscurie]

I am not a JL fan and posted my very unpopular opinion about him during Charlie's trial. He seemed too eager to me to fit in and it just kinda gave me the creeps. I believe I posted that I did not trust his testimony.

And while I do believe Wendi was peripherally involved, I do not believe JL was set up to take the fall for Dan's murder. To me, that was along the lines of the owl T-shirt.

Agree.

 

[Going Rogue]

Liberties as in perjury?

Well, setting aside speculation about his feelings, motives or subconscious, or jurors perceptions of his testimony & how the State might strengthen or bolster his input in any future Wendi prosecution......... and just focussing on your comments re the importance of details..... maybe we want to nail this down? ( saves rehashing time in the future?)

Absolutely agree about details and this is the place where one can pore over details- even if it's really, really boring.

Any chance you can link to the interview & trial excerpts when you're pasting from your notes? I'm looking at your post 614 where you raise an issue of discrepancies
- JL 1st interview vs JL third interview
- any one or all of the three trials where he testifies and takes these liberties? ( Looking at the Magbanua retrial he does say that WA knew he was leaving at 11 Fri but in that trial he gives the reason why he believes WA knew specifcs)



Right now, am looking at the videos of his trial 3 testimony on this matter and also looking at the March 2015 Isom interview but you might want to signpost the items you're raising in Post 614 yourself? ( The links & timestamps from your notes)

------

To be clear - Me personally, I am more focused on Donna's forthcoming trial. More than testing arguments about evidence for any future prosecution of Wendi but seeing as you're raising this now why not thrash it out and nail it before Donna's trial starts, one at a time?

Here you go:

Listen stating at the 9:10 minute mark – This is the first interview days after the murder where Jeff said he had ‘vague’ plans to leave on Thursday or Friday.

Listen stating at the 1:52:40 minute mark – this is the 3rd interview (8 months later) where Jeff now claims Wendi knew he was leaving on Friday and Isom confronts Jeff’s based on his previous statements.

Absent of someone coming forward saying they told Wendi Jeff planned on leaving at 11:00am on Friday, Wendi knowing Jeff was leaving at 11:00am on Friday seems like another falsehood that many latch onto. Jeff also testified that Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday (again I believe all 3 trials). Again, absent someone coming forward, I would say Jeff took some ‘liberties’ in his testimony to ‘help’ the states case against Wendi and I truly believe he is doing so ‘subconsciously’.

 

[amicuscurie]

Here you go:

Listen stating at the 9:10 minute mark – This is the first interview days after the murder where Jeff said he had ‘vague’ plans to leave on Thursday or Friday.

Listen stating at the 1:52:40 minute mark – this is the 3rd interview (8 months later) where Jeff now claims Wendi knew he was leaving on Friday and Isom confronts Jeff’s based on his previous statements.

Absent of someone coming forward saying they told Wendi Jeff planned on leaving at 11:00am on Friday, Wendi knowing Jeff was leaving at 11:00am on Friday seems like this is just another falsehood that many latch onto. Jeff also testified that Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday (again I believe all 3 trials). Again, absent someone coming forward, I would say Jeff took some ‘liberties’ in his testimony to ‘help’ the states case against Wendi and I truly believe he is doing so ‘subconsciously’.

I believe she knew he was going out of town, and I believe she may have been interested in where he would be on Friday morning. Beyond that, who knows?

I don’t believe he was intentionally set up, because I don’t believe it was that consciously and deliberately planned. However, I do believe that W may have wanted to know where he was going to be, and that it is possible she wanted that info in her back pocket in case she needed to speak to police and throw them off the trail.

I also believe it is possible she wrote him that “do not contact me” email because she did not want to see him but didn’t want to officially break up, and/or because she wanted to create the impression that he may have been upset with feeling “jilted.” In the police interview, Isom asks her why she wrote the “no contact” email. She first tells him she wanted to have some time apart so see what that would be like. He then reminds her that she had just been apart from him for a week while visiting Miami for Harvey’s birthday. She then explains that she wanted to see what it was like to be apart from him while they were both in Tallahassee.

 

[nodamselindistress]

My problem with the set-up theory is that the hit men were just following DM around, there was not a set time for the hit to take place. Therefore, the whole 11 AM stuff is kind of irrelevant?

 

[Going Rogue]

I believe she knew he was going out of town, and I believe she may have been interested in where he would be on Friday morning. Beyond that, who knows?

I don’t believe he was intentionally set up, because I don’t believe it was that consciously and deliberately planned. However, I do believe that W may have wanted to know where he was going to be, and that it is possible she wanted that info in her back pocket in case she needed to speak to police and throw them off the trail.

I also believe it is possible she wrote him that “do not contact me” email because she did not want to see him but didn’t want to officially break up, and/or because she wanted to create the impression that he may have been upset with feeling “jilted.” In the police interview, Isom asks her why she wrote the “no contact” email. She first tells him she wanted to have some time apart so see what that would be like. He then reminds her that she had just been apart from him for a week while visiting Miami for Harvey’s birthday. She then explains that she wanted to see what it was like to be apart from him while they were both in Tallahassee.

Yes, she definitely knew he was planning a trip to TN that weekend. Her motive for asking if he still planned on going away may very well have had to do with her knowledge of the family plan but also may be the reason I suggested as well - we can only speculate. My main point is Jeff’s testimony on what Wendi knew about his ‘scheduled’ departure time to TN evolved.

There is an old saying in sports – “the tape don’t lie”. I think its clear by the two timestamps I provided that without someone else coming forward and testifying that they told Wendi Jeff planned on leaving on Friday at 11:00am, she didn’t know he was leaving on Friday at 11:00am. I say that and base it on Jeff’s direct statements to Isom in the third interview – the tape don’t lie.

 

[IQuestion]

What you are thinking of is the last conversation they had in the parking lot that Monday or Tuesday before the murder after their yoga class. Per Jeff, Wendi had a ‘deep’ interest in knowing whether he still planned on going on his TN trip and upon reflection he found that odd since she hit him e-mail that evening asking for ‘no contact’ for a week. I agree its suspicious, but I also wonder if she was trying to line him up to babysit Friday night while she attended the stock-the-bar party.

Well that would be a hoot. "Don't contact me for a week." But since I need a free babysitter, who just happens to be a jealous guy(?), I'll ask him to babysit while I go out and meet other guys at a stock-the-bar party? Does it really make a difference if he left town at 10:45, 11:30, noon or even 1PM???
JL did not "volunteer" to go to the police station...he was asked to come in for an interview. He pretty much nailed the A-family dynamics in the first 30 minutes. So haunting as he described the uncomfortable vibes, tension building up to something, "you could hear the drums" in the distance.
HA & DA were not very courteous or welcoming towards him. Donna even tells Charlito in a jailhouse call she only encountered/spoke to him once in 6 months. No surprise since JL was a professor in Tally, reminds a lot of people of DM (Titan haired & bespectacled), and no doubt would keep their daughter/grandchildren geographically distanced from SoFlorida....so no encouragement from the parents or CA.
Sure it was uncomfortable to listen to JL, but not for the reason some have stated. I felt he was being played for a sucker by a femme fatale who just couldn't be alone for two weeks of her life. I'm a sucker for you, lyrics? I get it though, the search for the perfect partner is tough.

 

[amicuscurie]

My problem with the set-up theory is that the hit men were just following DM around, there was not a set time for the hit to take place. Therefore, the whole 11 AM stuff is kind of irrelevant?

I have the same issue with the whole “how did they know his schedule” thing. They didn’t need to be told his exact schedule, because they were following him from before he even left his house. There is evidence that Wendi talked to Charlie and Donna that morning, but it possibly was not about Dan’s schedule.

 

[Going Rogue]

Well that would be a hoot. "Don't contact me for a week." But since I need a free babysitter, who just happens to be a jealous guy(?), I'll ask him to babysit while I go out and meet other guys at a stock-the-bar party? Does it really make a difference if he left town at 10:45, 11:30, noon or even 1PM???
JL did not "volunteer" to go to the police station...he was asked to come in for an interview. He pretty much nailed the A-family dynamics in the first 30 minutes. So haunting as he described the uncomfortable vibes, tension building up to something, "you could hear the drums" in the distance.
HA & DA were not very courteous or welcoming towards him. Donna even tells Charlito in a jailhouse call she only encountered/spoke to him once in 6 months. No surprise since JL was a professor in Tally, reminds a lot of people of DM (Titan haired & bespectacled), and no doubt would keep their daughter/grandchildren geographically distanced from SoFlorida....so no encouragement from the parents or CA.
Sure it was uncomfortable to listen to JL, but not for the reason some have stated. I felt he was being played for a sucker by a femme fatale who just couldn't be alone for two weeks of her life. I'm a sucker for you, lyrics? I get it though, the search for the perfect partner is tough.

As far me speculating that her interest in knowing if / when he was going on his trip was because of ‘potentially’ using him for babysitting services, I wouldn’t put that past her. As far as whether the exact time he left town mattered, it only matters because of the ‘theory’ about the coordinated effort to set up Lacasse as the fall guy. The ‘theory’ Jeff was being set up as the fall guy is widely believed by MANY and the state helped paint that picture when they questioned Jeff on the witness stand. He literally fed right into their hands when he told the story of how Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday, and she knew he would be passing nearby Dan’s house that morning. He also said his original schedule was to leave at 11:00am on Friday which was about the same time as the murder and he would have been traveling in a ‘similar’ vehicle the hitman were driving. If you listen to his testimony, its very easy to understand why so many people took that story hook line and sinker.

 

[Knitpicker]

As far me speculating that her interest in knowing if / when he was going on his trip was because of ‘potentially’ using him for babysitting services, I wouldn’t put that past her. As far as whether the exact time he left town mattered, it only matters because of the ‘theory’ about the coordinated effort to set up Lacasse as the fall guy. The ‘theory’ Jeff was being set up as the fall guy is widely believed by MANY and the state helped paint that picture when they questioned Jeff on the witness stand. He literally fed right into their hands when he told the story of how Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday, and she knew he would be passing nearby Dan’s house that morning. He also said his original schedule was to leave at 11:00am on Friday which was about the same time as the murder and he would have been traveling in a ‘similar’ vehicle the hitman were driving. If you listen to his testimony, its very easy to understand why so many people took that story hook line and sinker.

The kids were going to the party.

 

[IQuestion]

Can I interrupt with a question? It has really been bothering me...why do both WA and KatieM both have an issue when asked about money matters? WA= "Are your parents millionaires?" KM= "How much money did you receive from the murder?"
In the case of WA, I'm thinking she didn't want to admit they had enough money to pay for a contract murder. (Or how much money she received upon DM's death.)
In KatieM's case, I don't think she wants anyone to know how much she actually pocketed because she skimmed a lot more for herself than she is willing to admit? IE, she never told SG how much she set aside for herself before she handed him the package of money? (Remember she called and said "the money has mold on it.") So she was looking at/examining or counting the money before he saw it. Or in stating a dollar amount she realizes the idiocy and/or shame in her involvement? Regardless of her motives she is serving LWOP., so my question is essentially moot. (Calling on Dr. G for insight)

 

[IQuestion]

I have the same issue with the whole “how did they know his schedule” thing. They didn’t need to be told his exact schedule, because they were following him from before he even left his house. There is evidence that Wendi talked to Charlie and Donna that morning, but it possibly was not about Dan’s schedule.

AMICUSCURIE...I almost agreed with you, except Wendi already admitted she discussed Danny's schedule
with Charlie. Remember the explanation for the 18 minute phone call?? WA said/claimed or lied that she was upset about Danny wanting to take the children swimming and that he would be picking the children up early. Ergo there was discussion of Danny's schedule.

 

[cottonweaver]

Sadly this is ingrained in my memory. This is going on memory so probably not verbatim but very close:

In the first 10 minutes of his first police interview Jeff said “I had vague plans to go to TN on either Friday or Saturday". In the third interview he said to Isom "my friends told me had I left on Friday at 11:00am, it would have looked like I was fleeing the scene of the crime and they wanted me to tell you (Isom) that Wendi may have been trying to frame me" Jeff acknowledged it seemed like a ‘far-flung’ idea to him but he wanted to mention it.

Later in the third interview (I think towards the end), Jeff is again discussing the trip to TN and said he changed his plans from leaving on Friday to Thursday and he said "Wendi knew I was scheduled to leave at 11:00am on Friday”. Isom immediately interrupted him and said "I thought you said you didn’t know when you where leaving, it was up in the air”.... after a long pause, Jeff said, “Yea I didn’t know for sure when I was leaving, but I’m sure I discussed leaving on Friday with people at work and Wendi could have found out from others”. Fast forward to the trials and Jeff testified that ‘Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday'. I’m not sure if it was all 3 trials, but I think it was all three.

I have brought the above up before but it seems like no one understands how critical this is to the ‘set up narrative’.

IMO, that narrative is based on three key things:

1) The hit team purposely rented a ‘similar’ car as Lacasse. There is proof from Rivera’s testimony this is false (at least for the Prius) not to mention the cars (IMO) are not similar EVEN though Jeff played along with the state and testified that he agreed that his car was similar to the Prius to fit the states narrative of the ‘setup’.

2) Wendi knew Jeff was leaving at 11:00am on Friday – IMO, Jeff’s account as described above seems to reasonably contradict this.

3) The hit was timed to happen with Jeff’s 11:00am departure – that doesn’t seem likely based on any of Rivera’s testimony – there was never a mention of timing the hit at 11:00am on Friday.

Here you go:

2nd post snipped by me
Thanks for the link & the timestamps to the police interviews. It will take me a while to watch them and then watch what he says when he testified as you suggested.

I'd already started re-watching some of his testimony when I first replied to you but then had to stop

2nd trial testimony
22 mins He'd discussed it with Wendi ' approx 11am , Wendy & I had discussed this in some detail previously because of some other plans....' rest is at this link

3rd trial testimony
4.38 mins She knew I was departing at 11 ... in time for an early dinner Atlanta ( He's saying that she'd previously known and had known for quite a while. Then he testifies that he changed his mind to leave the night before and Wendi wouldn't have known that) Rest is at the link

4.19 but then when she called me back she had a series of detailed questions about what I would be doing on Friday and

( I can't find the first trial clips right now - 2019 - will try later, L & C likely still has them on their You tube account)

 

[cottonweaver]

7/21/2014 Lacasse interview from your link @Going Rogue

Listen stating at the 9:10 minute mark – This is the first interview days after the murder where Jeff said he had ‘vague’ plans to leave on Thursday or Friday.

He said he'd had vague plans for Friday or Saturday
He adds that because he'd now become so upset and because a friend urges him- on Thursday- to just get in the car & drive, he departs on Thursday ( Instead of Fri or Sat)

 

[cottonweaver]

7/23/2014, Second? Lacasse interview ( This is only 2 days after his first police interview)

You missed this one: 53.50mins

Jeff says that Wendi asked whether he was still going to be here - in Tally- this weekend Are you going to be here on Friday. He replies to her it's up in the air ( even though he didn't mean that, he didn't want to sound desperate he says.) Anyway she asks why it's now up in the air.

 

[cottonweaver]

3/6/2015 Next Lacasse interview ( this time JL has initiated the interview, not been called in by LE )
1 hr 04 mins. At the start of this interview, this time just with Isom, he makes a distinction between the first police interviews and he's had time to get ' some clarity'

I am adding an ' extra' because it links to Wendi's concerns re Friday July 18 2014, even though it's not strictly related to your original post.


1hr 13 - 1hr 19 The previously scheduled trip - Wendi & Jeff - flight to Cali to see his parents. Jeff explains Wendi wanting to reschedule that trip. That Cali trip was due to occur the week that Danny was murdered. Wendi had been very concerned that they might not get back to Tally in time - Friday afternoon. ' I have to pick up the kids that day ' ( As we all know this Cali holiday Jul 11/12- Jul 19th was cancelled. Flight tickets had already been purchased/reserved ) Mentour Lawyer sticks a big label onto the video ' It was June 4th' ( day that Wendi sat Jeff down & told him she can't do the Cali trip')
1 hr 24 JL says that he actually had three interviews with Corey Hale already ( Possible that Mentour Lawyer has missed uploading one of them?)

 

[amicuscurie]

AMICUSCURIE...I almost agreed with you, except Wendi already admitted she discussed Danny's schedule
with Charlie. Remember the explanation for the 18 minute phone call?? WA said/claimed or lied that she was upset about Danny wanting to take the children swimming and that he would be picking the children up early. Ergo there was discussion of Danny's schedule.

Yes, the swimming, I agree with you. When I was referring to “his schedule,” I meant that many people seem to think she was needed to communicate to them when he was leaving his house and when he would be out of the gym. I don’t think necessarily that she was needed to communicate to anyone when he was going to be out of the gym that morning, because the killers were following him, which they would not have needed to do if they knew exactly when he would be leaving the gym, etc.

As we discussed before, I think that swim text is important, because it was unexpected and it is possible it threw her off, making her possibly have to deny having seen his earlier message, possibly making her have to have that long discussion wirh Charlie, and possibly being the reason for the drive by, to make sure the deed had been done before the kids would be picked up. All of those things are problematic, in my opinion, and it’s possible all stem from that unexpected text. I would want to know who was initially scheduled to pick them up that day, and who initiated that text. I do note that on the stand at Charlie’s trial, she was asked who was picking the kids up that day, and she says “I was,” which to my knowledge is incorrect if it is true that Dan had said he was picking them up and taking them swimming.

 

[cottonweaver]

You posted

Listen stating at the 1:52:40 minute mark – this is the 3rd interview (8 months later) where Jeff now claims Wendi knew he was leaving on Friday and Isom confronts Jeff’s based on his previous statements.

and in your previous post suggested that:

Later in the third interview (I think towards the end), Jeff is again discussing the trip to TN and said he changed his plans from leaving on Friday to Thursday and he said "Wendi knew I was scheduled to leave at 11:00am on Friday”. Isom immediately interrupted him and said "I thought you said you didn’t know when you where leaving, it was up in the air”.... after a long pause, Jeff said, “Yea I didn’t know for sure when I was leaving, but I’m sure I discussed leaving on Friday with people at work and Wendi could have found out from others”. Fast forward to the trials and Jeff testified that ‘Wendi knew he was leaving at 11:00am on Friday'. I’m not sure if it was all 3 trials, but I think it was all three.

I have brought the above up before but it seems like no one understands how critical this is to the ‘set up narrative’.

Let's go to the tape and where the discussion starts - at 1hr 46- before we get to 1hr 52
Jeff recounts what Wendi said after yoga, ' Hey Jeff, are you still going to Tennessee on Friday'

He's already explained to Isom that he lied to Wendi that he was up in the air.

Anyway, I'm just not feeling it. Not any sense that he's perjured himself. Nor red flags.

Me saying I have vague plans for a restaurant dinner occurring on 31 October when over visiting my brother can mean that the dinner plans are not confirmed even though me spending time with my brother on 31st is totally confirmed.
Do you see ? I'm trying to do short posts but I hope that distinction is clear so leaving it at that

Moving onto 1hr 52 as you suggested
When Isom interrupts Jeff I don't think Isom is ' confronting' Jeff . I think is miscommunication & misinterpretation.

Jeff's in the middle of explaining to Isom that because of the upset that week - the Tuesday no contact email from Wendi - he's showing her email to his friends. He's telling his friends the truth now but withholding them from Wendi.
He doesn't know if any of the ' mutual friends' that he spoke to on Tuesday & Wednesday re the ' break-up email' will have - almost simultaneously - tipped her off

So....
Wendi had always known he was leaving Friday - hence her raising it.
Jeff had - up until this week's upset - had always known he was leaving Friday but he started to obfuscate with Wendi when he saw her Tues.

And we all know - from Wendi's own interview with Isom - that she never said , in front of the awful Jane ' it can't be Jeff, he left Thursday so he wouldn't have been here'