FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #24

[amicuscurie]

I'm not sure about the '"Jeff would be my vote" comment, but I do recall she made it clear that she didn’t think Jeff was capable of the murder. She even said something to the effect of that she views him as a ‘decent’ guy and she said be more inclined to suspect ‘someone like you’ - not sure who she was directing the ‘you’ to, I don’t recall who speaking to at the time (victim’s advocate?)

The ex is just logical choice – IMO, it had nothing to do with her believing it was Jeff.

She seems to have thought it could NOT be Jeff, and yet somehow felt she had to bring it up, or felt that Wendi had to bring it up. This suggests to me that she possibly would not have brought Jeff up or suggested Wendi mention him to the investigators, had it not been for their walk earlier in the week.

Also notable, as I see it, is the fact that the victim advocate - who Wendi likely knew was a social worker like Jane and might possibly be trained to be empathetic and attuned to the possibility of abuse or stalking - just happened to be in the room while they were discussing it and immediately picked up on it.

Again, in my opinion we can’t rule out the possibility of subtle manipulation.

It’s true that Jane is the first to bring him up, but it is what happens afterward and the lead-up to telling Isom that I find most interesting.

 

[Knitpicker]

I never said this or anything like it.

If I missed that quote, so be it. As I said I was listening on double-speed. I'm not going to listen to the whole thing again but if someone could provide a timestamp I would appreciate it.

I think it may have been edited out.

 

[Going Rogue]

She seems to have thought it could NOT be Jeff, and yet somehow felt she had to bring it up, or felt that Wendi had to bring it up. This suggests to me that she possibly would not have brought Jeff up or suggested Wendi mention him to the investigators, had it not been for their walk earlier in the week.

Also notable, as I see it, is the fact that the victim advocate - who Wendi likely knew was a social worker like Jane and might possibly be trained to be empathetic and attuned to the possibility of abuse or stalking - just happened to be in the room while they were discussing it and immediately picked up on it.

Again, in my opinion we can’t rule out the possibility of subtle manipulation.

It’s true that Jane is the first to bring him up, but it is what happens afterward and the lead-up to telling Isom that I find most interesting.

I understand all the theories that have been discussed and I think they all have some merit or are at least conceivable. The facts are that Jane knew Wendi fairly well and knew about Wendi and Jeff’s relationship issues – including Jeff’s jealously which, according to Wendi, may or may not have been warranted . According to Jeff, Wendi was seeing other men throughout their relatively short relationship. Also, per Jeff, he confronted Wendi about the cheating which led to the ‘big’ Gainesville fight shortly before (as in weeks) the murder. The reality is even if Wendi didn’t purposely feed Jane stories about Jeff as part of some elaborate ‘setup’ plan, she sill would have confided in her about their issues and that’s exactly what she did.

IMO, Jane bringing Jeff’s name up as a potential suspect was not necessarily because of anything Wendi told her about their relationship issues, it was just a logical choice. Just like after Wendi told Jane that they fingerprinted her - Jane said to Wendi - 'well I would hope so, you're a logical choice'. I'm sure Jane felt the same way about Jeff - he was also a 'logical choice'. The additional color Jane provided after mentioning Jeff by adding that they were having relationship issues and Jeff was very jealous just so happened to be true. Wendi gave him a reason to be jealous and I realize many think that Wendi purposely was making Jeff jealous as part of the elaborate plan. Personally I think many details of this case are overanalyzed to a very extreme level.

 

[amicuscurie]

I understand all the theories that have been discussed and I think they all have some merit or are at least conceivable. The facts are that Jane knew Wendi fairly well and knew about Wendi and Jeff’s relationship issues – including Jeff’s jealously which, according to Wendi, may or may not have been warranted . According to Jeff, Wendi was seeing other men throughout their relatively short relationship. Also, per Jeff, he confronted Wendi about the cheating which led to the ‘big’ Gainesville fight shortly before (as in weeks) the murder. The reality is even if Wendi didn’t purposely feed Jane stories about Jeff as part of some elaborate ‘setup’ plan, she sill would have confided in her about their issues and that’s exactly what she did.

IMO, Jane bringing Jeff’s name up as a potential suspect was not necessarily because of anything Wendi told her about their relationship issues, it was just a logical choice. Just like after Wendi told Jane that they fingerprinted her - Jane said to Wendi - 'well I would hope so, you're a logical choice'. I'm sure Jane felt the same way about Jeff - he was also a 'logical choice'. The additional color Jane provided after mentioning Jeff by adding that they were having relationship issues and Jeff was very jealous just so happened to be true. Wendi gave him a reason to be jealous and I realize many think that Wendi purposely was making Jeff jealous as part of the elaborate plan. Personally I think many details of this case are overanalyzed to a very extreme level.

I don’t believe she necessarily intentionally made Jeff jealous or picked that fight as part of an elaborate plan, and it’s possible she really was cheating on him. It’s certainly possible Jane would have mentioned Jeff in any event.

I’m just pointing out that if memory serves me, the first person Jane mentions Jeff to is Wendi, not the detectives, and then everything follows from there, with the victim advocate intervening, Wendi asking them whether she should say something, the other two women agreeing she really should, and THEN Wendi herself telling Isom.

Speaking generally and not about anyone in this particular case, manipulation can be subtle, and some people are very good at it, it may be second nature and not consciously done, and effective manipulators can make something look like it was someone else’s idea.

 

[Going Rogue]

I don’t believe she necessarily intentionally made Jeff jealous or picked that fight as part of an elaborate plan, and it’s possible she really was cheating on him. It’s certainly possible Jane would have mentioned Jeff in any event.

I’m just pointing out that if memory serves me, the first person Jane mentions Jeff to is Wendi, not the detectives, and then everything follows from there, with the victim advocate intervening, Wendi asking them whether she should say something, the other two women agreeing she really should, and THEN Wendi herself telling Isom.

Speaking generally and not about anyone in this particular case, manipulation can be subtle, and some people are very good at it, it may be second nature and not consciously done, and effective manipulators can make something look like it was someone else’s idea.

Yes, Jane gave Jeff’s name after Wendi asked her ‘who would do this’ – Isom wasn’t present at the time. You don’t have to dig too hard to find all sorts of theories that Wendi was intentionally trying to make Jeff jealous and the question Wendi asked Jane at the police station both are tied to the elaborate Lacasse set up plans. Also that everything Wendi told Jane earlier that week when they went for a walk is tied to the set up plans as well. Many believe Jeff was a target from day one, which is why I refer to it as the ‘elaborate setup plan’. It’s a little too farfetched for my taste – identifying Jeff as a suspect as well as the others mentioned, might have been diversion tactic, but I don’t believe in the elaborate Lacasse setup plan ‘theory’.

 

[Zedzded]

So, I have to wonder what made Jane think of him straight-off? She immediately mentions him as soon as "who could have done this" comes up. What gives?

Yeah I don't like that. She was a friend and colleague of his and would know he was incapable of that. She's also know there was little genuine motive. She had a hidden agenda. There's no way JL should have been at the forefront of her mind when thinking about potential suspects.

 

[Zedzded]

I still don't think LaCasse is a tough guy. Maybe he was just posturing in front of the cop a bit, trying to act macho.

He followed up the comment about kicking his arse, with something along the lines of "I've never been in a fight or punched anyone" something like that.

 

[Zedzded]

KM said she didn't want to confess because that could put SG "the father of her children" on death row.

I don't buy that. KM is cut from the same cloth as the Adelsons. There's only one person Katie cares about and that's Katie. None of these co-conspirators gave a flying about anyone else when arranging this murder. DA sold her own kids down the river to get what she wanted, not caring that they might be arrested and die in prison. Same with KM. She enlisted SG not caring that he might get caught. And also not caring that her she might get caught and her kids would be essentially orphaned.

She didn't confess because she was convinced, with the help of Kawass and Decoste, that she would not be found guilty.

 

[Knitpicker]

Mentour reuploaded.
Very interesting emails between Sarah Yousef and Wendi.

 

[Zedzded]

I wonder how much SY looked in to WA's involvement in the murder of DM. She's a lawyer and you'd think would want to know the truth. I've had friends that have committed certain crimes. It is your duty to find out the truth, especially when the crimes are serious. And that's what I've done with 2 friends (ex-friends). I needed to know what happened, I found out and severed the friendships. I get the impression with SY that she had her head in the sand to some extent. It wouldn't have been hard to find out that WA was not who she purported to be. A different side to her. And SY could have easily found out that there were a lot of inconsistencies with WA's version of events, yet she remained friends until 4 years after the murder.

 

[Knitpicker]

I wonder how much SY looked in to WA's involvement in the murder of DM. She's a lawyer and you'd think would want to know the truth. I've had friends that have committed certain crimes. It is your duty to find out the truth, especially when the crimes are serious. And that's what I've done with 2 friends (ex-friends). I needed to know what happened, I found out and severed the friendships. I get the impression with SY that she had her head in the sand to some extent. It wouldn't have been hard to find out that WA was not who she purported to be. A different side to her. And SY could have easily found out that there were a lot of inconsistencies with WA's version of events, yet she remained friends until 4 years after the murder.

Well if you watched the video , ML says that she was moved by Phil Markels victim impact statement, and that she was worried that others would twist and take info she knew about Wendi and use it against her.
But in time, as she probably saw the shows like 20/20 and followed the SM, she decided what she knew had value and she should share the info she has. Donnas conviction may have changed things.
And according to those emails, if you want to imagine what Wendi may have told her…you can imagine the fear.
Her life would now be under scrutiny.
And it definitely will now.
With both sides taking depositions.
And now she is on the states witness list.
I think what she did was brave. And really good timing actually.

She had to be careful with this crazy family.

 

[Zedzded]

if you want to imagine what Wendi may have told her…you can imagine the fear.
Her life would now be under scrutiny.
And it definitely will now.

Who cares that her life would be under scrutiny. Whatever happened to doing the right thing? An innocent man was murdered and sure she eventually contacted people, but 4 years after the fact? She had no inkling in that 4 years that her dear friend WA was involved? She gets some credit for eventually getting in contact with the right people, but not a lot.

 

[amicuscurie]

Yes, Jane gave Jeff’s name after Wendi asked her ‘who would do this’ – Isom wasn’t present at the time. You don’t have to dig too hard to find all sorts of theories that Wendi was intentionally trying to make Jeff jealous and the question Wendi asked Jane at the police station both are tied to the elaborate Lacasse set up plans. Also that everything Wendi told Jane earlier that week when they went for a walk is tied to the set up plans as well. Many believe Jeff was a target from day one, which is why I refer to it as the ‘elaborate setup plan’. It’s a little too farfetched for my taste – identifying Jeff as a suspect as well as the others mentioned, might have been diversion tactic, but I don’t believe in the elaborate Lacasse setup plan ‘theory’.

I agree with you. I don’t think there was an elaborate setup, but I do think that it’s possible that raising the idea of Jeff as a suspect may have been intentional, as a diversion tactic.

 

[Knitpicker]

Who cares that her life would be under scrutiny. Whatever happened to doing the right thing? An innocent man was murdered and sure she eventually contacted people, but 4 years after the fact? She had no inkling in that 4 years that her dear friend WA was involved? She gets some credit for eventually getting in contact with the right people, but not a lot.

Until we are in someone’s shoes , we don’t know the specifics of what she knew and what she didn;t know.
At this stage, I’ll lean on the side of grace.

 

[Missyrocks5]

He did, but as I recall, he also said they got on the TURNPIKE at an entrance near Dolphins Stadium. That, to the best of my knowledge, is NOT the Dolphin Expressway, not by a long shot. His whole Motion seemed to me to be about being able to show when they got on the TURNPIKE.

What he seemed to me to be describing is the Golden Glades Interchange, where you join the Turnpike from I-95 going North. There’s a SunPass reader there. Just as you enter, you pass Dolphins STADIUM.

I believe he misspoke. Or he doesn’t know what that interchange is called and thinks it’s called the Dolphin Expressway, because it’s next to the stadium. That’s not what the Dolphin Expressway is, but maybe if you’re from Broward you don’t know that.

I’m thinking he was describing Golden Glades, because I’ve done that very drive to Orlando a million times. I’ve also done it from Coral Springs. You wouldn’t even stop in Orlando at all unless you took the Turnpike, because that’s the road that goes through Orlando. 95 and 75 don’t.

Lol. A fellow local? I didnt know a couple of folks on here either live in South Florida or used to. To me, that is one of the most fascinating parts of this case. We used to live 5 minutes away from the As in Coral Springs. A good friend and I were just discussing the fact that her daughter, who also was born and raised in Coral Springs, would've been in Wendi's class and probably would've been someone she would've been friends with since she was very academically inclined as well. But she went to the other high school.

I agree that I think he was mistaken. How could he live in Miami and call it the Dolphin Expressway. He meant the Golden Glades. You would go from 95 to Golden Glades to get on the turnpike to go to Orlando if they were coming from South Beach. But if they were driving from their Coral Springs home, they probably would've taken the Sawgrass Expressway to the turnpike and head north. Either way, the dolphin Expressway is way out-of-the-way.

However, Coral Springs is north of where Charlie lived. He lived near the Hard Rock hotel. Regardless, he can get down in the weeds all he wants about the Sunpass, to me it is absolutely unbelievable that anyone would text someone that they were outside their house if they were just driving by on the highway.

 

[Knitpicker]

Lol. A fellow local? I didnt know a couple of folks on here either live in South Florida or used to. To me, that is one of the most fascinating parts of this case. We used to live five minutes away from the As in Coral Springs. A good friend, and I were just discussing the fact that her daughter, who also was born and raised in Coral Springs, would've been in Wendi's class and probably would've been someone she would've been friends with. But she went to the other high school.

I agree that I think he was mistaken. How could he live in Miami and call it the Dolphin Expressway. He meant the Golden Glades. You would go from 95 to Golden Glades to get on the turnpike to go to Orlando if they were coming from South Beach. But if they were driving from their Coral Springs home, they probably would've taken the Sawgrass Expressway to the turnpike and head north. Either way, the dolphin Expressway is way out-of-the-way.

No- I think because they lived in Maplewood, they would have gone a similar route as Harvey went to work.
Their home to University Dr- passing the dental practice to Commercial Blvd- the Turnpike.
Taking the sawgrass would have been out of the way -but yes they could have done that too.

 

[Missyrocks5]

They did live in Maplewood Isle. We always took the Sawgrass because it was the fastest, but it is possible that they took the streets to University Dr. I just thought of the fact that Coral Springs is north of where Charlie lived so they actually had to drive SOUTH to go back to Charlie, then head back north to get to Orlando. I would've taken the Sawgrass to 595 E. to get to Charlie and then get back to the turnpike and head north to go to Orlando. Unless they were in their South Beach rental condo at that point.

 

[Knitpicker]

They did live in Maplewood Isle. We always took the Sawgrass because it was the fastest, but it is possible that they took the streets to University Dr. I just thought of the fact that Coral Springs is north of where Charlie lived so they actually had to drive SOUTH to go back to Charlie, then head back north to get to Orlando. I would've taken the Sawgrass to 595 E. to get to Charlie and then get back to the turnpike and head north to go to Orlando. Unless they were in their South Beach rental condo at that point.

Right it is possible as I said that they took the Sawgrass. One would always think the Sawgrass is faster but it’s just a choice. Maybe taking University for all those decades they would choose that way rather than go west on Atlantic just to get to the Sawgrass.

I always felt they went from the family home to Charlies.
It made more sense-preparing the house for the arrival of the boys after they returned with Wendis stuff a few days later.

Why would they want to put Wendi’s stuff in their expensive, limited space condo on S Beach?
But if Corbitt has the records, and the Prosecution has stated for a FACT they were in S beach, then they left from there.

It’s important to note that even though technically, Charlies home is listed as Fort Lauderdale, it’s really Davie.
Not anywhere near the beach, but close to his Dental school (Nova). He must be the farthest intracostal from the beach. It would have taken him at least half an hour by boat to get into the Atlantic. Not that this has anything to do with anything…lol…his home near the beach would have probably been knocked down and a 30 million mansion would have been built. His property is not as in demand bc of its location (also near 441)

 

[Missyrocks5]

No- I think because they lived in Maplewood, they would have gone a similar route as Harvey went to work.
Their home to University Dr- passing the dental practice to Commercial Blvd- the Turnpike.
Taking the sawgrass would have been out of the way -but yes they could have done that too.

Right it is possible as I said that they took the Sawgrass. One would always think the Sawgrass is faster but it’s just a choice. Maybe taking University for all those decades they would choose that way rather than go west on Atlantic just to get to the Sawgrass.

I always felt they went from the family home to Charlies.
It made more sense-preparing the house for the arrival of the boys after they returned with Wendis stuff a few days later.

Why would they want to put Wendi’s stuff in their expensive, limited space condo on S Beach?
But if Corbitt has the records, and the Prosecution has stated for a FACT they were in S beach, then they left from there.

It’s important to note that even though technically, Charlies home is listed as Fort Lauderdale, it’s really Davie.
Not anywhere near the beach, but close to his Dental school (Nova). He must be the farthest intracostal from the beach. It would have taken him at least half an hour by boat to get into the Atlantic. Not that this has anything to do with anything…lol…his home near the beach would have probably been knocked down and a 30 million mansion would have been built. His property is not as in demand bc of its location (also near 441)

Makes sense. Agreed. They are trying to keep Corbitt from testifying as an expert because he was a wonderful witness. Yes, Charlie's home was not on the intercoastal, which would've been a fortune. But that dockage had value for sure.

 

[Missyrocks5]

Yeah I don't like that. She was a friend and colleague of his and would know he was incapable of that. She's also know there was little genuine motive. She had a hidden agenda. There's no way JL should have been at the forefront of her mind when thinking about potential suspects.

But this is the gift of the manipulations of W.A.. It would be at the top of Jane's mind because we know that, although supposedly WA had laryngitis and couldn't speak to DM, yet she went on a walk with Jane early that week to supposedly discuss how torn she was about what to do about Jeff. She filled Jane's head with all the talk of how incredibly jealous and accusatory he was, making him seem irrational.

Of course, we know that she spent the entire nine months of their relationship, as he said, bemoaning every day how awful Danny was to her and how she couldn't believe she got stuck in Tallahassee because of him. We also know from what we have heard from multiple ways that she did give him reason to be jealous and she was pushing his buttons and seeing other men. Staging IMO that scene in a coffee place she knew he went to so he could react the way she wound him up to react in a public setting with witnesses. She wound Jane up, and, like so much to do with WA, it was no coincidence that she had LE call Jane to come to the station. All planned IMO.

She is straight out of the movies like Body Heat. Wicked smart. Puppeteer. IMO. We have seen that play out in real life in how many cases through the years.