FL FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?

[GGE]

I knew you must have already seen that photo. I just couldn't look at it and NOT post it, just in case. It would eat at me forever.

I am particularly bothered by cases like this, because of all the same reasons everyone else here is, but I guess I have a slight extra motivation due to the fact that ( 1. ) one of my degrees is in internet programming and research - I always end up having a peculiar sense that I *have* to be able to accomplish what I set out to accomplish when it pertains to internet-research, and it makes me crazy when I cannot (like searching for those 15 other states, which I did for AGES yesterday, without luck)...and then (2. ) my own sibling (a brother) was missing for about 28 years.

I'm not saying this well, I'm sorry. I've had a problem with saying things well when it comes to this kind of thing for most of my life... by the time I was 30 I had already lost both parents and at the time that my last parent died (my mother), one of my older brothers was missing. We didn't know for many years whether he even knew she had died, or whether he himself was alive or dead.

From the time I was six until I was about 34 I thought I had one less sibling here on the earth. My own brother turned up alive and I have tremendous (misplaced) guilt about that, too, when I work on cases at WS.. how can I post and try to help people when my own missing person case had a vastly different outcome than so many others? I never know whether sharing my story will bring hope to people or cause more heartache...

but reading about your sister just breaks my heart now because of all these things and so many others, and I just want so badly for you to wake up one day and get the e-mail that I got... your own version of my "I found our brother Rick!" e-mail... it's just not right, and I'm so very sorry that you're going through this... sorry for rambling SSA, I've never shared my story about my brother before and this isn't the place for it - in your sister's thread. If you or a mod wants me to delete it I will, or you can, I understand. I guess I just want so badly to hug you and then find your sister. It's that simple. and I guess we all want that.

:grouphug:

 

[poppyfrock]

Is there a list of unidentified rule outs? I would like to help by looking at Jane Does. I was wondering if there was a list of Jane Does that have been tested and ruled out as NOT being Deborah.

 

[Roselvr]

Hello everybody......just wanyted to let you know we are still out here, still searching. There is a new age progressed drawing of Debbie on her thread in the 1970's missing forum. It was done by someone on here and I feel he did an excellent job!!! I know I sometimes get sidetracked and forget to mention it.....but Thank You all so very much. Your thoughts,prayers, and support means more than we can say.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9572950#post9572950"]Direct link[/ame]

:rose: :rose::rose:

After seeing a few photos that Still_Seek sent me of herself and her other siblings, I revised the image again. My previous images assumed that Debra's face would have filled out with age. The sisters have very long thin faces, as Still_Seek indicated above.

Here is the revision to reflect the likelihood that she would have grown up to have the same long thin facial shape as the sisters had.

Great job Carl! You should submit she & AMB to Charley Project

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Is there a list of unidentified rule outs? I would like to help by looking at Jane Does. I was wondering if there was a list of Jane Does that have been tested and ruled out as NOT being Deborah.

No Poppyfrock......sadly there is no list of rule outs in my sisters case. To the best of my knowledge there have been very few times that she has been compared to unidentified remains. Once was the case listed above in Davie Fl, and she was ruled out. (To the best of my knowledge that girl has never been identified either) They once did a rule out on a set of skeletal remains.....they were also ruled out. I do not know of any other cases where any attempts were made to rule her out. I am not saying there have not been any.....I am just saying they have not notified us of any.
Any and all help is always very appreciated. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can see things that others overlook.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Direct link

:rose: :rose::rose:



Great job Carl! You should submit she & AMB to Charley Project

I agree......I think he did a remarkable job!!!!!!

 

[Island_Chica]

SSA - I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread and the last page, so I'm admittedly not fully informed, but... something got me thinking. Do you get the impression the police won't let you view the evidence photos from Schaefer's home for legal reasons? The state should be protected from liability, but they still don't want to defend a lawsuit. If that is the case, have you ever thought of offering to have your family sign a release that states you won't sue the PD/County/State, whatever for anything in connection with your sister's case?

Just throwing out ideas here. I'm so very sorry. 40 years is a long time to go without answers.

 

[poppyfrock]

No Poppyfrock......sadly there is no list of rule outs in my sisters case. To the best of my knowledge there have been very few times that she has been compared to unidentified remains. Once was the case listed above in Davie Fl, and she was ruled out. (To the best of my knowledge that girl has never been identified either) They once did a rule out on a set of skeletal remains.....they were also ruled out. I do not know of any other cases where any attempts were made to rule her out. I am not saying there have not been any.....I am just saying they have not notified us of any.
Any and all help is always very appreciated. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can see things that others overlook.

Well, let's start a list! I am so very sorry for you and your family's loss. I have never tried to submit a possible match before. So, I am hoping someone experienced in the unidentified area can come along and help us out a little. Here are a couple of questions I have for anyone who has done this before:
Where should I submit a possible match? To Doe Network or do I email LE in charge of the unidentified? Do you feel the matches you submit seem to have more attention paid to them if you email LE yourself or coming from Doe Network? I am just hoping that we can eliminate some unidentifieds till one day we find her!

Here is a list of who we know has been ruled out as Deborah :
Case File 295UFFL
http://doenetwork.org/cases/295uffl.html

It's a short list and I'm hoping we can add some more to it! This is the only uid that we KNOW has been ruled out. There may be more that we have no knowledge of. I am off to the unidentified forums for now to see if I can answer some of my own questions. But if anyone knows the answers to the above questions, please help a newbie out.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

SSA - I've only read the first 2 pages of this thread and the last page, so I'm admittedly not fully informed, but... something got me thinking. Do you get the impression the police won't let you view the evidence photos from Schaefer's home for legal reasons? The state should be protected from liability, but they still don't want to defend a lawsuit. If that is the case, have you ever thought of offering to have your family sign a release that states you won't sue the PD/County/State, whatever for anything in connection with your sister's case?

Just throwing out ideas here. I'm so very sorry. 40 years is a long time to go without answers.

WE always appreciate new ideas and suggestions......we could not have gotten as far as we have without them. The main reason they do not want to allow us to view the actual items are that they can no longer locate many of them. We have seen photos , actually the same ones Yvonne Mason used in her book Silent Screams.....she dedicated a chapter to our sister. Many of the items are on online auctions......and others nobody simply knows where they are. Sadly that shuts down another avenue of trying to determine if he had my sisters ring. They know we have no desire to sue, we have made that clear....... I honestly do not know what the issue is......it is not as if we set out to make them look bad......the officers involved with her case are all long retired.......so we continue to wait.....to search......to pray.....and to hope.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Well, let's start a list! I am so very sorry for you and your family's loss. I have never tried to submit a possible match before. So, I am hoping someone experienced in the unidentified area can come along and help us out a little. Here are a couple of questions I have for anyone who has done this before:

Here is a list of who we know has been ruled out as Deborah :
Case File 295UFFL
http://doenetwork.org/cases/295uffl.html

Sadly the list of comparisons for her is a very short list. We keep getting told that "most probably" any unidentified remains that needed ruled out from close to that time frame have long since been cremated and buried. That was the policy back then.....Now they do DNA tests as part of standard practise before cremating and burying. WE have been unable to find any list that gives the approx ages of any jane does to see if any might have matched her. We are told that from the time they started saying DNA till now, they have no unidentified remains that would belong to a 13 yr old child......I find that in itself nothing short of a miracle. WE search unidentified databases.....that is the only way I know how to get possible matches......her case is listed in Namus, but I can not get it to pull up to give you the link.....lol.....just the type of day I am having.
Any and all help is appreciated.....we are at the point now that if someone looks close....no matter where the remains were located......then they need submitted.......fresh eyes and fresh thoughts are always appreciated.

 

[poppyfrock]

Sadly the list of comparisons for her is a very short list. We keep getting told that "most probably" any unidentified remains that needed ruled out from close to that time frame have long since been cremated and buried. That was the policy back then.....Now they do DNA tests as part of standard practise before cremating and burying. WE have been unable to find any list that gives the approx ages of any jane does to see if any might have matched her. We are told that from the time they started saying DNA till now, they have no unidentified remains that would belong to a 13 yr old child......I find that in itself nothing short of a miracle. WE search unidentified databases.....that is the only way I know how to get possible matches......her case is listed in Namus, but I can not get it to pull up to give you the link.....lol.....just the type of day I am having.
Any and all help is appreciated.....we are at the point now that if someone looks close....no matter where the remains were located......then they need submitted.......fresh eyes and fresh thoughts are always appreciated.

*hugs* I am able to find her on Namus.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Still Seeks..
YOU need to write that book. Your prose is great & you know the case better than anyone. I looked at that website after you directed me to it. Amazing what people will steal, sell, & buy. Many of those things HAVE to come from LE.

Have strength & courage to keep going. I'll cheer you on, since I'm miserable at matches.:drumroll::cheer::yourock:

Doesn't it just make you want to be sick? All that stuff for sale from "famous" sLets stop for a moment and reflect on what these people did to become "famous". Does any of this money go to help the families of the victims with the endless search they are on......hmmmmm NO......it all goes to some profit monger who is making money off the pain and suffering of innocent families and helps to encourage other wanna be "famous" killers.
LOL.....several people have said I have a way with words and I should write that book.....I have the words but I lack the talent. But Thank You.

You are not terrible at matches.....it is quite often that matches are found when things are seen from a fresh set of eyes. Do not sell yourself short. Matching from an age progressed photo is double hard......as the photo could be off in any of a number of ways......look with your eyes......then compare and what if with your mind.....then follow your heart......there is no right or wrong......there are only attempts and rule outs. I can tell you from a families point of view.....we would rather have many rule outs.....than to have no attempts!!

 

[wanttohelp]

Hi I had posted in here earlier. I did not realize until recently that the location seemed like where my mom grew up and I believed was close in age. I asked her where she had lived and she said FT. Lauderdale so I was about to say nevermind. But I continued and I had been right. She went to the same school but ends up she was about 4 years or so older. She said that the middle school/high school had been together or next to each other (forget which) until that year. Anyways she was surprised she had never heard about your sister. My suggestion after my convo with mom is to not limit her location disapearance to Pompano. It may be best to also state Ft Lauderdale. Anyways, she also said the neighbor hood started to get bad around then real fast. Sorry this is not much more to contribute.

 

[Roselvr]

I have not read the whole article but from what I did read; wanted to post it here

Guest opinion: Florida Legislature: Sweeping changes in ethics and accountability; hypocrisy or something else?

THE ISSUE: This is about 7 Florida Statutes I amended to provide for a Uniform Procedure in identifying Florida's Unidentified Human Remains, which the majority are homicide victims! As a matter of fact; Florida is ranked No. 5 in the U.S. with the highest amount of Unidentified Human Remains by the National Missing and Unidentified System (NamUs) a US Dept. of Justice funded databank and the FBI data bank Combined DNA Index System (CODIS)!!

The Bill I authored would have provided a uniform procedure, mandating Medical Examiners to help Law Enforcement Officers in these investigations, by providing a biological sample for every unidentified body discovered in Florida, so that it could be sent to a certified laboratory to have a "DNA Profile" done and entered into the State & National Unidentified Data Banks. However, a staff person (not an elected official) rejected it as: "Unnecessary, as it is being done already."

Why was this legislation NECESSARY, because it is not being done here in Florida
- See more at: http://www.cape-coral-daily-breeze....lorida-Legislatu---.html#sthash.gPsibgwy.dpuf

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

No need to be sorry. We appreciate any and all contributions and thoughts. I am surprised she had not heard about the case, we try to make sure we at least get something published down there as often as possible. Granted that is not as often as we would like. Yes, I remember the area as not bad, but not great. I am amazed that to this date we are still saying no trace found. Then I remember that few of Schaefers victims have been located. Thank you for taking the time to comment, and never be sorry......your taking the time in itself is appreciated.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I have not read the whole article but from what I did read; wanted to post it here

Guest opinion: Florida Legislature: Sweeping changes in ethics and accountability; hypocrisy or something else? !!

Why was this legislation NECESSARY, because it is not being done here in Florida
- See more at: http://www.cape-coral-daily-breeze....lorida-Legislatu---.html#sthash.gPsibgwy.dpuf

As sad as it is.....this article is very correct!!! We had begged, pleaded, written, called and done everything else we know how to do in attempts to even get a listing of the young girls buried down there, after my sisters disappearance so we could see if we could find the location of remains found that might be her. Nobody has the time. We look over and over the Florida unidentified database and just Shake our heads. So badly I want to look at many of those ignorant people and say Seriously? Seriously you want us to believe that Florida has no unidentified remains that could belong to a 13 yr old female?????What about the other unidentified people, Do they not deserve to go home? Do the families not deserve to know where they are? Do they not deserve a name? They have so many unidentifieds that seemingly are listed nowhere....... Do they not understand that there are families out there still waiting and wondering? Is it simply that they do not care? Whatever excuses they use, the excuses need to stop. Somebody needs to get off there butt and at the very least, every unidentified person needs to be listed in that database!!! There are no excuses for them not obtaining DNA profiles on these victims. Then again, sad as it is.....they do not need an excuse. All they have to do is say no, and families like mine are powerless to make them do it.

 

[Roselvr]

As sad as it is.....this article is very correct!!! We had begged, pleaded, written, called and done everything else we know how to do in attempts to even get a listing of the young girls buried down there, after my sisters disappearance so we could see if we could find the location of remains found that might be her. Nobody has the time. We look over and over the Florida unidentified database and just Shake our heads. So badly I want to look at many of those ignorant people and say Seriously? Seriously you want us to believe that Florida has no unidentified remains that could belong to a 13 yr old female?????What about the other unidentified people, Do they not deserve to go home? Do the families not deserve to know where they are? Do they not deserve a name? They have so many unidentifieds that seemingly are listed nowhere....... Do they not understand that there are families out there still waiting and wondering? Is it simply that they do not care? Whatever excuses they use, the excuses need to stop. Somebody needs to get off there butt and at the very least, every unidentified person needs to be listed in that database!!! There are no excuses for them not obtaining DNA profiles on these victims. Then again, sad as it is.....they do not need an excuse. All they have to do is say no, and families like mine are powerless to make them do it.

I'm so sorry that you & your family have to deal with such uncompassionate people. I'm sure it would be a different story if their loved ones were missing. There really needs to be laws that say they have to add MP & UP's to NamUs as well as going back and getting DNA to try to identify remains.

Are you FB friends with Todd Matthews? If not; send him a friend request; introduce yourself and see if he has an idea of where you can turn. He may know of others looking to fight the state too. I just posted in another thread the other day about a [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9765831#post9765831"]Jane Doe in Mississippi[/ame] that they want exhumed to get her DNA to add to NamUs. I got it from Todd's wall. ~Hugs

Mississippi judge delays Jane Doe exhumation - DNA sought to test against 2 missing La. woman Aug. 16, 2013

A Mississippi judge delayed until October a request from a coroner to exhume a body for DNA testing, despite the pleas of a South Louisiana family who are convinced the unidentified woman is their missing loved one.

Hancock County, Miss., Coroner Jim Faulk said there was “not a dry eye” in the courtroom Friday when the adult children of Nelda Louise Hardwick, of Lake Charles, testified in favor of the exhumation.

Still, the judge questioned the authenticity of some of the evidence Faulk presented, including autopsy photographs of Jane Doe. Another hearing is set Oct. 18.

 

[poppyfrock]

I don't really know what I'm doing. What about this one?
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11111

ETA: Do you guys think this is too far away to be Deborah?
What is the farthest we think he could have taken her?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I don't really know what I'm doing. What about this one?
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11111

ETA: Do you guys think this is too far away to be Deborah?
What is the farthest we think he could have taken her?

WE do not limit our search to Florida, simply because she is a SUSPECTED victim of Gerard Schaefer. WE have newspaper articles sent to me somewhere in this link by one of the awesome people here showing he was in WV. That is where we are from.
What made me shiver on this unidentified is this....not long after she vanished.....someone called my parents and told them they could find her buried in the bottom of the rock quarry. Freaky isn't it. All help is appreciated.

I can however rule this one out. My sister had no feelings or no dental work. Thank you for looking.

 

[poppyfrock]

WE do not limit our search to Florida, simply because she is a SUSPECTED victim of Gerard Schaefer. WE have newspaper articles sent to me somewhere in this link by one of the awesome people here showing he was in WV. That is where we are from.
What made me shiver on this unidentified is this....not long after she vanished.....someone called my parents and told them they could find her buried in the bottom of the rock quarry. Freaky isn't it. All help is appreciated.

I can however rule this one out. My sister had no feelings or no dental work. Thank you for looking.

Thanks SSA! I had read the whole thread a few months ago but had forgotten a lot and just went back and read it to refresh my memory. Do you think it could have been Schaefer who called? Maybe disguising his voice?! I hope you are doing well tonight!

ETA: I don't see anything about dental work or fillings on this uid.

 

[poppyfrock]

One more before I go to bed. :
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4702