I think the person who took the car back most likely had no idea about the abduction; I suspect it was an employee (or close friend) of the abductor. That's why it was driven in the middle of the day.
FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #11
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Shin Masamura
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Ya the kicker is the phone being turned off at night, that is not normal, if her family had an emergency and need to talk to her, she would leave it on, hell when do you shut down your phone?
Great point on the kesse's responding when they did, and i believe her brother got their first, ill have to refresh my memory..
What in the world would have Jennifer leave her apartment at night, deliver a phone of robs friend? The friend was other than her ex right? Man its been a long time..
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
It was her brother's friend, they had stayed in her condo that weekend while she was away and he left it there. Her brother asked her to get it to him quickly, "overnight it", something to that effect. The reasoning would be that if she went out and took care of it she would not be delaying its return and not have to deal with it next day.
However, what little that has been posted by some who have some insight into this is that she would have sent it from work. I've only read a portion of what's been written on this case but I don't recall seeing a solid confirmation that she had sent packages from work before.
I've sent quite a few personal packages in my time and it has never occurred to me that it wpould be possible to ask an employer if I could ship something from their mailroom and pay for it. Had a discussion in these threads years ago and some people said they've done it. I've never seen it happen but I've never asked either. I would think that would be people's goto to send packages if they could do it. The most I've ever done in a mailroom is buy stamps, and that was quite awhile back.
The Kesse's do not think that she left after her call with Rob as once she was home, she was home...rarely went out after getting home and then only with someone else....I know that this could have been a spur of the moment thing .....But, in just a few hours she would be able to mail it from Westgate....Besides, apparently she either told her brother or Travis that she was not going to go out to send the phone....I believe I heard this on one of Drew's many interviews that I have listened to...Honestly, I have no life , so I listen to interviews!
Do you think that it is possible that the ex hid Travis' phone as they were cleaning up the condo on Sunday giving him an excuse to go to her condo that night and use the phone as an excuse?
Most businesses like Westgate have a "mail room" where they send and receive mail all of the time from USPS, UPS and FedEX....
Sometimes I think she left also just not so sure she would have left for the phone....I think perhaps the coworker could have called her up wanting to talk with her about the meeting that she had the following morning...
I am leaning more to her being abducted after the phone call with Rob due to the cell phones possibly being turned off because she used her cellphone as an alarm clock( and the fact that she had never turned her phone off since she got it at around age 14 or sodefinitely heard this in one of Drew's interviews)...
I read something the other day that got my attention that I never knew before....Both pairs of her flipflops were found in her car yet her taupe, snakeskin pumps are missing....She wore the flipflops to and from the car, I suspect she either carried her pumps in a bag or in her briefcase to put on once in the office....So, that implies that she must have worn flipflops to her car and put her pumps on in the car.....
This case is so complicated, any theory that you can come up with can be debunked with another theory....Just wish that we new more, still hoping that OPD has more information than we do.....
Do you think that it is possible that the ex hid Travis' phone as they were cleaning up the condo on Sunday giving him an excuse to go to her condo that night and use the phone as an excuse?
Most businesses like Westgate have a "mail room" where they send and receive mail all of the time from USPS, UPS and FedEX....
Sometimes I think she left also just not so sure she would have left for the phone....I think perhaps the coworker could have called her up wanting to talk with her about the meeting that she had the following morning...
I am leaning more to her being abducted after the phone call with Rob due to the cell phones possibly being turned off because she used her cellphone as an alarm clock( and the fact that she had never turned her phone off since she got it at around age 14 or sodefinitely heard this in one of Drew's interviews)...
I read something the other day that got my attention that I never knew before....Both pairs of her flipflops were found in her car yet her taupe, snakeskin pumps are missing....She wore the flipflops to and from the car, I suspect she either carried her pumps in a bag or in her briefcase to put on once in the office....So, that implies that she must have worn flipflops to her car and put her pumps on in the car.....
This case is so complicated, any theory that you can come up with can be debunked with another theory....Just wish that we new more, still hoping that OPD has more information than we do.....
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
"Besides, apparently she either told her brother or Travis that she was not going to go out to send the phone..."
As I mentioned above, I have seen a couple of posts from someone close to the family who said that she would send it from work and that it was not an urgent matter for her. Of course the only way to know this is whatever her response to her brother was when he told her his friend needed his phone back as quickly as possible. Possibly also mentioned to her bf in their last call. Basically enough information is provided as to why they dispel notion of her going out after the call.
But they also are the source of this information about phones going dead at 10:40 pm, and prior reports that her last call ended with her bf about 10 pm. This phones (both phones, hers and her brother's friend's phone) going dead I only frst saw mention of here a few months ago. I have not dug back through the threads on this and anything else there yet, just lucky that was mentioned again in discussion. Thanks.
But something struck me about way this was worded in this post. It was known early on that her brother informed her about his friend's phone left behind. The police originally mentioned that there was a possibility she had left her condo for that reason. There has been somewhat strong pushback that wasn't possible, and the pushback can only come from family / loved ones based on what they knew of her and her comments that night on the phone.
Years later I saw a comment from one of them that she didn't consider the matter urgent and wouldn't have gone out. Then years more later I see this phones dead at 10:40 pm thing.
At some point people have to get realistic. The fact that Jennifer responded she wasn't going out about the phone tells me that indeed that is a response to her brother asking her to get it bac to his friend, that he needed it. And that tells me she may have had second thoughts.
There is no way of knowing she didn't leave other than people she spoke to thinking that. And what that leaves is someone getting into her condo within minutes of her saying goodnight to her bf, subduing her, and searching her condo for phones to disable, enough to find the acquuantances phone in a bag or attache case, wherever she had, and take the battery out to disable it. This is like seriously contrived. To come up with an explanation like that because people who know her best don't believe she would leave her condo is untenable.
Now it doesn't help a lot to try to convince people that did in fact take the phones out where indeed if abducted someone would disable the phones, someone fairly sophisticated to know to do this. And it didn't help to point out for close to ten years that the person who parked her car is wearing at a minimum a thigh holster and an unmistakeable back of a bike helmet, along with some other gear on his backside, but about all I can do is keep pointing this stuff out every few years and then go back to my other pursuits knowing that I've done what I can but Jennifer's disappearance is a black hole.
All light shed disappears and nothing comes out.
It is sad.
rd
The poi cleaned the car at night, the cleaning continue into the morning.
This is why he returned the car at noon. He had to make sure no evidence left behind.
This is why he didn't took the DVD from the back sit , not to touch things areas in the car and risking being caught.
This is why he returned the car at noon. He had to make sure no evidence left behind.
This is why he didn't took the DVD from the back sit , not to touch things areas in the car and risking being caught.
Recently , we heard about the case of Sherri pannini, whether it's a hoax or not, we don't know yet ,but more and more cases of women are kidnapped and murdered while jogging.
Jennifer was very cautious, made safe calls, carry mace or pepper spray apparently it was not enough.
Jennifer was young and beautiful and
beautiful women attract men. Sometimes it's better to keep low profile...to dress simple, less make-up, to look as average as possible and not to attract extra attention to yourself.
The other thing is
women shouldn't live alone, especially if they are attractive. Predators are looking for women alone.It's better to live with a roommate, that way there is someone else in case someone try to break in the house.
Also not to go alone to bars or clubs, always to go with a friend when going out.
Sometimes we think we know someone and we reveal too much about ourselves without second thought.
Maybe Jennifer told people at work she moved to a new house and the wrong person heard it.
Maybe at her complex the stalker saw her walking to the fitting room or maybe one day she stopped by the offic and ta telling the people there... she need to paint the apt...fix things in the apt...
and the predator was there and he realize she lives alone
Who knows.
Anything could have happened.
Jennifer was very cautious, made safe calls, carry mace or pepper spray apparently it was not enough.
Jennifer was young and beautiful and
beautiful women attract men. Sometimes it's better to keep low profile...to dress simple, less make-up, to look as average as possible and not to attract extra attention to yourself.
The other thing is
women shouldn't live alone, especially if they are attractive. Predators are looking for women alone.It's better to live with a roommate, that way there is someone else in case someone try to break in the house.
Also not to go alone to bars or clubs, always to go with a friend when going out.
Sometimes we think we know someone and we reveal too much about ourselves without second thought.
Maybe Jennifer told people at work she moved to a new house and the wrong person heard it.
Maybe at her complex the stalker saw her walking to the fitting room or maybe one day she stopped by the offic and ta telling the people there... she need to paint the apt...fix things in the apt...
and the predator was there and he realize she lives alone
Who knows.
Anything could have happened.
Are women supposed to live in constant fear? To have to compromise their identity just to 'not attract men'? Really?
Some of these statements make me uncomfortable.For example,women should not live alone,especially if they are attractive and look average as possible to not attract unwanted attention.
Not blaming the victim in anyway.
In a perfect world we can do whatever we want but in our world we can't.
For example, the other day my daughter told me... i am going to target to buy new video game and it was 10 pm at night, so I said
No , unless it's emergency ,if you are sick you need to go to the pharmacy ,
Don't go at night,wait until morning and then go.
I know 10 pm is not very late, and something bad can happen any time but still, why to take an extra risk?
Why increase chances ?
we need to think about it. Bad things happened.
We can't assume it will not happened to us.
In a perfect world we can do whatever we want but in our world we can't.
For example, the other day my daughter told me... i am going to target to buy new video game and it was 10 pm at night, so I said
No , unless it's emergency ,if you are sick you need to go to the pharmacy ,
Don't go at night,wait until morning and then go.
I know 10 pm is not very late, and something bad can happen any time but still, why to take an extra risk?
Why increase chances ?
we need to think about it. Bad things happened.
We can't assume it will not happened to us.
Jennifer was abducted either from inside her condo or outside of it , it is believed.....So, she disappeared from her home, if you aren't safe at home , where would you be safe? We can't live our lives in a bubble avoiding life because something may happen to us.....I agree that one should not take a lot of risks in life, however, look at Jennifer, she was stable, worked , once home usually stayed home, safety conscious, carried mace, rarely went out at night a lone and YET she became a victim....
Ugly or beautiful, life happens....We should not be foolish with regards to our safety, we should be prepared(mace, weapon) and be aware of our surroundings at all times....Statistically 75- 80% of crime victims know the perpetrator of the crime against them...
Something heightened Jennifer's insecurity about living where she lived....I don't think that cat calls, jeering from the Mosaic workers would have been enough to do it....Could she have been stalked? Was someone following her ? Could someone have been coming into her apartment while she was away nosing through her drawers, moving things just a little but enough that she would notice?
Ugly or beautiful, life happens....We should not be foolish with regards to our safety, we should be prepared(mace, weapon) and be aware of our surroundings at all times....Statistically 75- 80% of crime victims know the perpetrator of the crime against them...
Something heightened Jennifer's insecurity about living where she lived....I don't think that cat calls, jeering from the Mosaic workers would have been enough to do it....Could she have been stalked? Was someone following her ? Could someone have been coming into her apartment while she was away nosing through her drawers, moving things just a little but enough that she would notice?
I believe it was a work of a stalker.
Even if the abduction happaned at night inside the apt
The predator spotted her earlier , maybe when she went out on if the nights to one of the bars in orlando , I read somewhere there was a certain bar or club she went to few times.
Or as I said maybe he saw her in the mosaic , he could have worked there or visited a friend there or mabe he lived there before, ot used to be rental complex or he could haveclived there temporarily as a guest of one of the tenants there.
Jennifer was very beautiful and she caught his eye and he followed her .once he realized she lives by herself he didn't let go.
Even if the abduction happaned at night inside the apt
The predator spotted her earlier , maybe when she went out on if the nights to one of the bars in orlando , I read somewhere there was a certain bar or club she went to few times.
Or as I said maybe he saw her in the mosaic , he could have worked there or visited a friend there or mabe he lived there before, ot used to be rental complex or he could haveclived there temporarily as a guest of one of the tenants there.
Jennifer was very beautiful and she caught his eye and he followed her .once he realized she lives by herself he didn't let go.
I totally agree, Jennibee. That kind of talk really bothers me.Jennifer was doing absolutely nothing wrong - by all accounts she was a hard-working, kind person who had a long-term steady boyfriend and was making good enough money to be able to have a nice apartment on her own. She deserved all of those things. She did everything the right way and this still happened to her. No one could have predicted or foreseen it. You can't live in a bubble. Regardless of whether Jennifer had a stalker or not, in my opinion she made all the right choices.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
Her brother and friends were there while she was away that weekend.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
I agree very much with this, but being a guy am deferring to women's opinion on this. In particular my focus on missing women for years was because of ex's who blamed the disappearance on the woman going out alone and being abducted.
As we know, the disappearance was seldom at the hands of a stranger.
I don't - I think this was someone she knew, or someone that was known to the family, not a stranger. This person knew everything about her - where she worked, what job she had done, what the inside of her apartment looked like, etc.
RD,
Have you ever heard of a reason for Logan and his friends staying at Jennifer's condo? Was it just a "man thing" ? Why Jennifers place?
Was she afraid to leave her condo unattended for the three or four days that she was going to be away?
I don't blame the victim.
Jennifer did nothing wrong.
I am just saying in our crazy world,carrying
mace or pepper spray is not enough.
In fact you can be as cautious as you can and still be kidnapped or murdered.
But we need to try to decrease the chances it will happen to us.
This means ,as much as we want to do whatever you want, and be spountaous
we can't.
We should think ahead of a time about all different possibilities.
This is true for all people ,men and women as one , but especially beautiful women. They are the number one target and if a predator know a woman lives alone he will more likely target her than a woman with a roommate.
Why do you think so many women are attacked when they are alone?
Jennifer was like a sitting duck !!
Livingliving alone in this half empty complex
In her building I think there was only one other apt with people,the rest were empty.
Most of the mosaic complex was unoccupied and those apts which were occupied it was mostly renters who comes and go. Not owners who usually care about their homes.
Any stranger wouldn't look out of place there No one knows he is not living there .i read in one of the treads a woman living in the mosaic said she felt like someone followed her and was also uncomfortable living thete.She was living with her boyfriend the same time when Jennifer was living there.
Jennifer did nothing wrong.
I am just saying in our crazy world,carrying
mace or pepper spray is not enough.
In fact you can be as cautious as you can and still be kidnapped or murdered.
But we need to try to decrease the chances it will happen to us.
This means ,as much as we want to do whatever you want, and be spountaous
we can't.
We should think ahead of a time about all different possibilities.
This is true for all people ,men and women as one , but especially beautiful women. They are the number one target and if a predator know a woman lives alone he will more likely target her than a woman with a roommate.
Why do you think so many women are attacked when they are alone?
Jennifer was like a sitting duck !!
Livingliving alone in this half empty complex
In her building I think there was only one other apt with people,the rest were empty.
Most of the mosaic complex was unoccupied and those apts which were occupied it was mostly renters who comes and go. Not owners who usually care about their homes.
Any stranger wouldn't look out of place there No one knows he is not living there .i read in one of the treads a woman living in the mosaic said she felt like someone followed her and was also uncomfortable living thete.She was living with her boyfriend the same time when Jennifer was living there.
We cannot know if she was 'scared' to leave her condo unattended.. But, I can say that my sister and her husband will go on trips and she'll leave me her car to use, and I stay at her house, which is much nicer than mine and they have all the fun things there, like full cable TV! It's not uncommon for people to do that, ya know? But the fact that Logan and his friends stayed there gave all of them ample opportunity to go through her belongings. I have always suspected that whomever abducted her is very close to her and her family: After all, Jennifer was very, very cautious - so whomever grabbed her had to be someone she felt comfortable enough with to let her guard down (or else there were 2+ suspects). I really think otherwise she would have fought hard.
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