FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[grief2hope]

Very interesting, I will have to keep reading and find the post about the gas receipt. This would make sense as to why they are pretty sure it was a morning abduction. Awhile back I posted on here if there was a possibility she actually made it to her work parking lot and was abducted by someone she knew from there, someone waiting for her in the parking lot? I know they said she was cautious but I think a lot of us let down our guard in our work parking lot and around people we know. Which makes me wonder if she parked in the same spot everyday at work and in the front of a building or if there was a back area where employees parked and went inside?

 

[liz b.]

Very interesting, I will have to keep reading and find the post about the gas receipt. This would make sense as to why they are pretty sure it was a morning abduction. Awhile back I posted on here if there was a possibility she actually made it to her work parking lot and was abducted by someone she knew from there, someone waiting for her in the parking lot? I know they said she was cautious but I think a lot of us let down our guard in our work parking lot and around people we know. Which makes me wonder if she parked in the same spot everyday at work and in the front of a building or if there was a back area where employees parked and went inside?

Can I ask where that info about her work parking lot is from ? TIA. Oh I just re-read your post. Not sure about the gas receipt ?

 

[Harmony 2]

mod note: Please read the following and post accordingly.

1) When claiming something as a “fact,” you must prove it. Be able to provide links to information from approved third party sources such as mainstream media (MSM), law enforcement (LE), and admin-verified case insiders. If you state “I read it somewhere” you need to be prepared to provide a link.

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bumping up my post... Failure to comply with these rules may result in loss of posting privileges.

 

[JnRyan]

An he was the first person to actually enter the condo after the family called. What did he see ? Had JK made coffee? eaten breakfast ? So many important details. IF ONLY it d been LE to go in the condo first...

Since LE supposedly did not process her condo we may be missing things like this. What was in the trash? Take out or delivery containers and/or a receipt from such a place? She may have had very little in the house and may have had something like Chinese delivered. We don't know the last meal prepared - breakfast that morning or dinner the evening before.

 

[liz b.]

Since LE supposedly did not process her condo we may be missing things like this. What was in the trash? Take out or delivery containers and/or a receipt from such a place? She may have had very little in the house and may have had something like Chinese delivered. We don't know the last meal prepared - breakfast that morning or dinner the evening before.

I read that she mentioned getting some dinner when she spoke to her family on the night before she disappeared. Also, the dishes in the dishwasher were all clean ( apparently her brother ran the dishwasher before he left the condo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I read that she mentioned getting some dinner when she spoke to her family on the night before she disappeared. Also, the dishes in the dishwasher were all clean ( apparently her brother ran the dishwasher before he left the condo.

BBM - As I have not heard this before, I wonder where this information comes from. I would like to know more about Jennifer's brother's observations when he entered Jennifer's apartment on the 24th.

Also, if Jennifer "mentioned getting some dinner when she spoke to her family on the night before she disappeared", I wonder if she would have eaten it with plastic utensils?

 

[liz b.]

BBM - As I have not heard this before, I wonder where this information comes from. I would like to know more about Jennifer's brother's observations when he entered Jennifer's apartment on the 24th.

Also, if Jennifer "mentioned getting some dinner when she spoke to her family on the night before she disappeared", I wonder if she would have eaten it with plastic utensils?

That info about the dishwasher I believe was mentioned on one section of the podcasts about this case. Dinner : she could have used cutlery from the dishwasher, or ordered out, or even gone out to get dinner. mo

 

[Lavinia]

Hi y'all! This is my first post on Websleuths and I was really glad to see this case getting so much attention. Like a lot of y'all I have been listing to the Unconcluded podcast and it has really gotten me interested in the case. I'm sorry in advance if this has been talked about already been discussed but I just wanted to share a few things...

-So one of the big questions in the case pertains to the timing of the abduction: was it an evening abduction or a morning abduction? I lean towards the morning abduction theory... I do not believe she left her condo after returning from work. I think things were totally normal up until the abduction took place Tuesday morning.

-Backing up to the evening of the 23rd (Monday). People wonder if Jennifer went out to mail her brother's friend's phone and possibly met trouble that night. Mailing a cell phone is much different than mailing a standard letter. She would have needed a small box or at least a padded envelope. She would have also needed correct postage, not just a single stamp. I don't have either of those things in my house...I would make a trip to the post office in order to mail something like that. Did the brother provide her with the address to the phone's owner?

Let's say she did go out to mail the phone (or went out for a different reason but had the phone nonetheless) and she met someone (a stranger or someone she knew) who caused her harm. Who would know to look for two cell phones in the heat of the moment of abduction and turn them both off at the same time. I wonder if the phone was still charged as well. If the phone was plugged into the charger I think it would have been specified that Jennifer planned on mailing both the phone and the charger. I know the phone wouldn't drain as quick as a smart phone but 72 hours for a phone not being charged is a long time. If someone looked way into it and knew the make/model they could see how long an untouched phone would last for before shutting off - assuming she did not use the phone.

-The brother is not brought up much in the podcast or news articles which I am surprised about as he was an adult at this time. Meaning, he hasn't spoken much - maybe he has and I just haven't read about it. Anyways, he was in her condo a few days before her disappearance and was the first one to arrive once the red flag was raised. Had Jennifer let her brother stay there when she was not there before? Was she fine with him staying in the condo that weekend?

-Have all of the people that were in her condo that weekend questioned? Did she know all of them? Did she (or her parents) find it strange the brother was still friends with the ex-boyfriend?

-Jennifer had purchased her condo. Regardless if she owned it outright or if she was paying on it...does anyone know if her parents continued payments (if it was not fully paid for) or kept/sold the condo (if it was fully paid for)? If it is no longer is the Kesse's name, is someone living in it now? If it is no longer in the Kesse's name, how long after Jennifer's disappearance was the condo relinquished? I have the same questions about her car... Anyone?

Alright and if I haven't been rambling enough already here are some of my scattered opinions:
--No one was paid to move the car
--The three witnesses interviewed in the Unconcluded podcast are not credible. I do not believe they came forward for attention or with ill intentions but I believe Jennifer met her fate very soon after her abduction. With that said, I do not think in any way she voluntarily left to start a new life which has been a question in the Maura Murray and Brian Shaffer case.
--The DVD player isn't significant. I believe this started as a random robbery/sexual assault outside of Jennifer's apartment somewhere between her apartment door and her car on Tuesday morning and escalated to murder. I think the person who parked her car is the person responsible for her murder. After committing such an awful act, a person would be very agitated...a DVD player wouldn't be important and yes, they would revert to habit i.e. backing the car up correctly. As far as I know, there have not been full prints found which means even if the killer had been arrested previously or since the crime it would not be in the database.

-She did not leave her briefcase in the car. This is a girl who knew how to kick out a tail light of a car if she was even in a trunk according to her mother.

--I do not think the POI showered in her apartment - if she was abducted in the parking lot they may not even have known which apartment was hers. If she was abducted at her door and the POI assaulted her in her apartment it would be a mess and there would be evidence. Again, a person that committed such a crime would be agitated - they would not be cleaning, taking her purse, briefcase (along with her body!) and locking the door on their way out. I believe she was quietly threatened by a sole stranger on Tuesday morning. Could someone have been involved in the cover-up and/or know about it from the POI venting? Totally. But this was a one man job.

Wow I never expected this to be half as long. I'm sorry if I didn't make sense or repeated myself/others on this (massive) thread. I am really looking forward to hearing y'alls responses and thoughts.

 

[Ozoner]

Hi y'all! This is my first post on Websleuths and I was really glad to see this case getting so much attention. Like a lot of y'all I have been listing to the Unconcluded podcast and it has really gotten me interested in the case. I'm sorry in advance if this has been talked about already been discussed but I just wanted to share a few things...

-So one of the big questions in the case pertains to the timing of the abduction: was it an evening abduction or a morning abduction? I lean towards the morning abduction theory... I do not believe she left her condo after returning from work. I think things were totally normal up until the abduction took place Tuesday morning.

-Backing up to the evening of the 23rd (Monday). People wonder if Jennifer went out to mail her brother's friend's phone and possibly met trouble that night. Mailing a cell phone is much different than mailing a standard letter. She would have needed a small box or at least a padded envelope. She would have also needed correct postage, not just a single stamp. I don't have either of those things in my house...I would make a trip to the post office in order to mail something like that. Did the brother provide her with the address to the phone's owner?

Let's say she did go out to mail the phone (or went out for a different reason but had the phone nonetheless) and she met someone (a stranger or someone she knew) who caused her harm. Who would know to look for two cell phones in the heat of the moment of abduction and turn them both off at the same time. I wonder if the phone was still charged as well. If the phone was plugged into the charger I think it would have been specified that Jennifer planned on mailing both the phone and the charger. I know the phone wouldn't drain as quick as a smart phone but 72 hours for a phone not being charged is a long time. If someone looked way into it and knew the make/model they could see how long an untouched phone would last for before shutting off - assuming she did not use the phone.

-The brother is not brought up much in the podcast or news articles which I am surprised about as he was an adult at this time. Meaning, he hasn't spoken much - maybe he has and I just haven't read about it. Anyways, he was in her condo a few days before her disappearance and was the first one to arrive once the red flag was raised. Had Jennifer let her brother stay there when she was not there before? Was she fine with him staying in the condo that weekend?

-Have all of the people that were in her condo that weekend questioned? Did she know all of them? Did she (or her parents) find it strange the brother was still friends with the ex-boyfriend?

-Jennifer had purchased her condo. Regardless if she owned it outright or if she was paying on it...does anyone know if her parents continued payments (if it was not fully paid for) or kept/sold the condo (if it was fully paid for)? If it is no longer is the Kesse's name, is someone living in it now? If it is no longer in the Kesse's name, how long after Jennifer's disappearance was the condo relinquished? I have the same questions about her car... Anyone?

Alright and if I haven't been rambling enough already here are some of my scattered opinions:
--No one was paid to move the car
--The three witnesses interviewed in the Unconcluded podcast are not credible. I do not believe they came forward for attention or with ill intentions but I believe Jennifer met her fate very soon after her abduction. With that said, I do not think in any way she voluntarily left to start a new life which has been a question in the Maura Murray and Brian Shaffer case.
--The DVD player isn't significant. I believe this started as a random robbery/sexual assault outside of Jennifer's apartment somewhere between her apartment door and her car on Tuesday morning and escalated to murder. I think the person who parked her car is the person responsible for her murder. After committing such an awful act, a person would be very agitated...a DVD player wouldn't be important and yes, they would revert to habit i.e. backing the car up correctly. As far as I know, there have not been full prints found which means even if the killer had been arrested previously or since the crime it would not be in the database.

-She did not leave her briefcase in the car. This is a girl who knew how to kick out a tail light of a car if she was even in a trunk according to her mother.

--I do not think the POI showered in her apartment - if she was abducted in the parking lot they may not even have known which apartment was hers. If she was abducted at her door and the POI assaulted her in her apartment it would be a mess and there would be evidence. Again, a person that committed such a crime would be agitated - they would not be cleaning, taking her purse, briefcase (along with her body!) and locking the door on their way out. I believe she was quietly threatened by a sole stranger on Tuesday morning. Could someone have been involved in the cover-up and/or know about it from the POI venting? Totally. But this was a one man job.

Wow I never expected this to be half as long. I'm sorry if I didn't make sense or repeated myself/others on this (massive) thread. I am really looking forward to hearing y'alls responses and thoughts.

Don't apologize! I think your reasoning is clear and logical.

And welcome to Websleuths!

 

[liz b.]

Couple of questions : was the dvd player strapped on the rear seat of JK's vehicle ? Also, does anyone have any links or info about the interior of JK's condo? I mean any links to statements about it ? ? TIA

 

[liz b.]

Hi y'all! This is my first post on Websleuths and I was really glad to see this case getting so much attention. Like a lot of y'all I have been listing to the Unconcluded podcast and it has really gotten me interested in the case. I'm sorry in advance if this has been talked about already been discussed but I just wanted to share a few things...

-So one of the big questions in the case pertains to the timing of the abduction: was it an evening abduction or a morning abduction? I lean towards the morning abduction theory... I do not believe she left her condo after returning from work. I think things were totally normal up until the abduction took place Tuesday morning.

-Backing up to the evening of the 23rd (Monday). People wonder if Jennifer went out to mail her brother's friend's phone and possibly met trouble that night. Mailing a cell phone is much different than mailing a standard letter. She would have needed a small box or at least a padded envelope. She would have also needed correct postage, not just a single stamp. I don't have either of those things in my house...I would make a trip to the post office in order to mail something like that. Did the brother provide her with the address to the phone's owner?

Let's say she did go out to mail the phone (or went out for a different reason but had the phone nonetheless) and she met someone (a stranger or someone she knew) who caused her harm. Who would know to look for two cell phones in the heat of the moment of abduction and turn them both off at the same time. I wonder if the phone was still charged as well. If the phone was plugged into the charger I think it would have been specified that Jennifer planned on mailing both the phone and the charger. I know the phone wouldn't drain as quick as a smart phone but 72 hours for a phone not being charged is a long time. If someone looked way into it and knew the make/model they could see how long an untouched phone would last for before shutting off - assuming she did not use the phone.

-The brother is not brought up much in the podcast or news articles which I am surprised about as he was an adult at this time. Meaning, he hasn't spoken much - maybe he has and I just haven't read about it. Anyways, he was in her condo a few days before her disappearance and was the first one to arrive once the red flag was raised. Had Jennifer let her brother stay there when she was not there before? Was she fine with him staying in the condo that weekend?

-Have all of the people that were in her condo that weekend questioned? Did she know all of them? Did she (or her parents) find it strange the brother was still friends with the ex-boyfriend?

-Jennifer had purchased her condo. Regardless if she owned it outright or if she was paying on it...does anyone know if her parents continued payments (if it was not fully paid for) or kept/sold the condo (if it was fully paid for)? If it is no longer is the Kesse's name, is someone living in it now? If it is no longer in the Kesse's name, how long after Jennifer's disappearance was the condo relinquished? I have the same questions about her car... Anyone?

Alright and if I haven't been rambling enough already here are some of my scattered opinions:
--No one was paid to move the car
--The three witnesses interviewed in the Unconcluded podcast are not credible. I do not believe they came forward for attention or with ill intentions but I believe Jennifer met her fate very soon after her abduction. With that said, I do not think in any way she voluntarily left to start a new life which has been a question in the Maura Murray and Brian Shaffer case.
--The DVD player isn't significant. I believe this started as a random robbery/sexual assault outside of Jennifer's apartment somewhere between her apartment door and her car on Tuesday morning and escalated to murder. I think the person who parked her car is the person responsible for her murder. After committing such an awful act, a person would be very agitated...a DVD player wouldn't be important and yes, they would revert to habit i.e. backing the car up correctly. As far as I know, there have not been full prints found which means even if the killer had been arrested previously or since the crime it would not be in the database.

-She did not leave her briefcase in the car. This is a girl who knew how to kick out a tail light of a car if she was even in a trunk according to her mother.

--I do not think the POI showered in her apartment - if she was abducted in the parking lot they may not even have known which apartment was hers. If she was abducted at her door and the POI assaulted her in her apartment it would be a mess and there would be evidence. Again, a person that committed such a crime would be agitated - they would not be cleaning, taking her purse,briefcase](along with her body!) and locking the door on their way out. I believe she was quietly threatened by a sole [/B]stranger on Tuesday [/B]morning. Could someone have been involved in the cover-up and/or know about it from the POI venting? Totally. But this was a one man job.

Wow I never expected this to be half as long. I'm sorry if I didn't make sense or repeated myself/others on this (massive) thread. I am really looking forward to hearing y'alls responses and thoughts.

You think a stranger just happened to be walking in the hallway outside her apartment, at exactly the time she was leaving for work ? Probem I have with a morning abduction is that the gardeners were working right outside her condo that morning. They did not see her at all. And it is such a short distance from where the gardeners were working to the hallway of her condo.

Your post raises a lot of really interesting possibilities. thanks for coming here, and please, keep posting.

 

[Markybug]

Do we think the gardeners did not see jenn because she never left in the morning? Or because she left earlier than normal, missing them arriving?

Mark.

 

[Force Ten]

You think a stranger just happened to be walking in the hallway outside her apartment, at exactly the time she was leaving for work ? Probem I have with a morning abduction is that the gardeners were working right outside her condo that morning. They did not see her at all. And it is such a short distance from where the gardeners were working to the hallway of her condo.

Your post raises a lot of really interesting possibilities. thanks for coming here, and please, keep posting.

This is another reason I can't go with an outside in the morning abduction. I think I remember she went to work between 6:30-7? Maybe still dark that time of year but sunlight would be starting to show. The perp would be completely exposed to numerous occupants via windows or coming out of doors or from their own cars and cars driving by. I mean it would be extremely risky - especially if by a grounds worker. Would they really be out that early as well?

This just doesn't seem random to me. In random abductions, usually the perp makes mistakes because they are rushed and maybe inexperienced. A body is usually found soon casually dumped. Because of the circumstances and how there is no trace of the abductor(s), with the exception of the video, this had to be well planned and executed. Nobody saw her and nobody heard a scuffle or screaming. A favorite use of abductors is chloroform. It's possible the perp was already in her condo before she got even home and made their move when she was going to bed.

 

[rd_jfc]

From a Feb. 2006 Nancy Grace show:
The parents said she normally went to work between 7:30 and 8:15.

I think if you'll check through the posts here you'll see around 8am mentioned mostly as thought to be time by family/police that she went out to car and was abducted.

 

[Really?]

Why is the brown purse circled in the condo kitchen photos? If she was in the parking lot going to work.....why is her purse still at home.?

 

[shelly111]

jennifer was abducted from her apt either at night time or in the morning . These are two common theories.
Other theories ,
jennifer was abducted on her way to work,if she stopped somewhere to eat breakfast,maybe a small place like a doughnut and coffee shop.
it was early and the place was empty. someone was waiting in the parking lot.
Another scenerio,jennifer made it to work.
she arrived at work .
she came to work early that morning .
no other workers arrived yet.
she parked her car in a different spot,not at her regular parking place.
The abductor was waiting and he forced jennifer to his car.
Later he returned and drove jennifer's car out of the work place
Or he could have forced jennifer to her own car and they drove away. Later he returned by himself,maybe he took a taxi back or got a ride from someone
His car was parking there all this time and he went to work .

 

[Markybug]

Just a thought re the parking of jenns car , could the POI have been told to park it back in its original space , but went to HOG by mistake? Ie park in the 3rd space from the left out front, by the pool?... this assumes the spaces were similar and the POI mixed up the swimming pool with the decorative pool at mosaic?

Just a thought..


Mark.

 

[CircuitGuy]

There is the chance that the perpetrator's own car was used and Jen's was moved as some sort of staging but this seems extremely unlikely. There would be some tactical advantage to moving her car. It would be consistent with voluntary absence as opposed to Jen being missing from her apartment with her car still in its assigned space but, if the risk and effort to move the car was taken, it would have been done early, when there was less chance of being seen and no one was aware Jen was missing. One does not have to be a criminal genius to know that you do not want to be anywhere near the crime scene once people might be aware of the crime and paying attention to details. The perpetrator did not go back and move the car around noon. l

All this makes me think the crime happened somewhere other than her apartment complex. She drove somewhere, was abducted, and the perp didn't want to leave the car at the true crime scene, so he left it in a random apartment complex at his first convenience, which may have been long after the abduction. This was less risky for him than taking it to her apartment, where people who noticed her missing may have been looking for her. (Family members actually were there looking.) It less risky leaving it at the scene of the abduction, esp if the scene was the perp's residence or some other place associated with the perp.

In this scenario, someone lured her out or just abducted her at some random place, e.g. a "midnight run" to a convenience store. He had to kidnap her, restrain/murder her, and possibly get cleaned up before he could depose of the car. That could take hours. He could have kidnapped her in the middle of the night and not gotten around to ditching the car for 12 hours.

I lean away from suggestions the perp moved the car only as a ruse to confuse investigators. I also question whether the perp walked from where the car was ditched to her apartment complex. I see no scenario to do this.

 

[CircuitGuy]

Just a thought re the parking of jenns car , could the POI have been told to park it back in its original space , but went to HOG by mistake? Ie park in the 3rd space from the left out front, by the pool?... this assumes the spaces were similar and the POI mixed up the swimming pool with the decorative pool at mosaic?

This seems possible. But it also occurs to me that if they've pulled off the abduction and left no evidence in her car, at that point it doesn't really matter where they put the car. There's no need to put it in the right spot.

 

[CircuitGuy]

she arrived at work .
she came to work early that morning .
no other workers arrived yet.
she parked her car in a different spot,not at her regular parking place.
The abductor was waiting and he forced jennifer to his car.

Did she normally arrive early? Could someone at work, either the guy who hit on her at work or someone else, have asked her the day before to come in early to help with a call to a place on a later time zone like Europe or India? <modsnip>