Were/are there cameras in the workplace parking lot ? t the workplace entrance ? Just wondering.
FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12
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Were/are there cameras in the workplace parking lot ? t the workplace entrance ? Just wondering.
It just seems impossible for Jennifer to be abducted, taken somewhere, the abductor did whatever he was going to do to her, dispose of the body , bring Jennifer's car to the HOTG ....all of this in a matter of 4 hours if you believe she was taken as she left her condo to go to work Tuesday am...
And leave almost no forensic evidence in her car.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
and add in that it is contended the car was driven only a short distance, which is inline with not having enough time to make much of a trip and get car back to HOTG. But it also means that contention is that Jennifer was abducted in daylight (and with landscapers in sight), somehow subdued, driven not that far away, now removing a subdued kidnap victim from her car in broad daylight, attacking victim, hiding victim, and finally returning car to an apartment complex parking at noon.
About the only scenario that seems reasonable to explain that is a house with an attached garage and hoping no one noticed different car being pulled into garage or driven away. It is beyond me why a morning abduction is believed to be what happened when there is nothing about it that is believeable or any firm information that Jennifer was up and about that morning.
But if there is nothing that was firm enough about previous evening to prevent police from saying that they believed Jennifer was abducted on way to her car going to work, then I would say there is nothing. Anything could have happened because there is nothing that says otherwise.
About the only scenario that seems reasonable to explain that is a house with an attached garage and hoping no one noticed different car being pulled into garage or driven away. It is beyond me why a morning abduction is believed to be what happened when there is nothing about it that is believeable or any firm information that Jennifer was up and about that morning.
But if there is nothing that was firm enough about previous evening to prevent police from saying that they believed Jennifer was abducted on way to her car going to work, then I would say there is nothing. Anything could have happened because there is nothing that says otherwise.
It is possible jennifer was abducted outside the mosaic on her way to work. Jennifer drove to work and stopped somewhere where she met foul play.
Another case of abduction during the day is Michelle parker.
Michelle parker was abducted during the day and her car was found near the mall of millenia. It was found parked in an apt complex near where jennifer lived,not Hotg but another complex.Both women could have had been kidnapped by the same person.
Another case of abduction during the day is Michelle parker.
Michelle parker was abducted during the day and her car was found near the mall of millenia. It was found parked in an apt complex near where jennifer lived,not Hotg but another complex.Both women could have had been kidnapped by the same person.
Please tell us more.Thanks.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that info, shelly. Yet another case that fits the pattern of most missing women, but not Jennifer Kesse. This is also a woman who is still missing in same area as Jennifer with about same time frame, previous evening to next day her car found in a parking lot.
That's really good info, shelly111.
Reading an article on the missing Michelle Parker, we have this statement which we just can't get in Jennifer's case:
"The missing mom’s cell phone was later found by a police dive team under the Nela Bridge in Belle Isle. The location is not far from the cell phone tower that registered the last ping from Parker’s iPhone on the day she disappeared. "
Maybe there's no info at all from the two phones in Jennifer's possession. Maybe all we got was made up bs. Who knows? Sad that both Michelle and Jennifer cannot be found in same area in Orlando.
Also Michelle Parker was driving a big hammer,
a car which stands out from other cars and yet
no one remember seeing the car when it was parked or who drove the car.
Michelle parker vanished on her way to work .
It was during the day
a car which stands out from other cars and yet
no one remember seeing the car when it was parked or who drove the car.
Michelle parker vanished on her way to work .
It was during the day
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken, I looked it up last night when you mentioned her, she didn't show up for work at 7:30pm. Car was found in a parking lot next day. Very differently in her disappearance car was seen on surveillance film but couldn't tell who was driving. Obviously there's probably a good thread on her disappearance here and I don't anything about it, but the evening - next day finding car is similar timing. 7:30pm versus 10pm is difference.
And 5 years later (2011 IIRC) no problem citing tower where last ping was seen. By same police, Orlando? So maybe they don't have anything from cell carriers and someone bs'd Drew. Who knows? Sad thing is that even with that info Michelle's phone was fished out of water but she wasn't found. And her car seen at a street location on surveillance and she's not found in same area as Jennifer. So the things that we hoped for and didn't get in Jennifer's case didn't help find Michelle anyway. It's just sad.
Interesting episode from "Unconcluded". They interview Jennifer's dad, Drew.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-episode-eleven-going-forward
Audio in this episode is poor especially when he talks about Jennifer's phones. But the message is that he really doesn't have any meaningful information on the activity of the two phones she had and he tries to tell everyone to quit focusing on the phones.
This is really strange because in most cases the missing person has ONE cell phone and it is either found at home or in their car or not found at all. Here Jennifer has TWO cell phones. What are the chances the abductor finds the 2nd one? Or finds the phone Jennifer is going mail, assumes it is hers and looks no further? But here there are TWO phones and no useful data.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6334818-episode-eleven-going-forward
Audio in this episode is poor especially when he talks about Jennifer's phones. But the message is that he really doesn't have any meaningful information on the activity of the two phones she had and he tries to tell everyone to quit focusing on the phones.
This is really strange because in most cases the missing person has ONE cell phone and it is either found at home or in their car or not found at all. Here Jennifer has TWO cell phones. What are the chances the abductor finds the 2nd one? Or finds the phone Jennifer is going mail, assumes it is hers and looks no further? But here there are TWO phones and no useful data.
I think that second phone was in her briefcase, but jmo. Could it be that the abductor didn't know about the second phone until , or if, he looked in her briefcase ?
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
I put this in same category as the police saying don;t worry about the POI clothes because their uniforms showed up light in the surveillance camera and puzzled them. If you don't focus on the phones and don't focus on the POI details such as clothes, then what do you focus on? There's nothing else.
I understand police have other crimes to solve but there's no info and essentially waiting for someone to confess on their death bed ala Tara Grinstead case. I did my best with the POI images but ten years and tens of thousands of views later didn't do any good.
Markybug
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Interesting mention by drew about a painter? who allegedly said that jenn left him in her flat to finish up , even tho drew was on the other end of jenns mobile and heard her say , they will have to come back... ( jenn always apparently made sure to be on the phone when anyone was in her flat doing any work)
There is no question that every cell phone company has the ability to retrieve information as to what cell towers any and all calls from a particular phone were routed through. This includes outgoing incoming and unanswered incoming calls. There have been many cases covered here in WS where this information has been used in the investigation and introduced at the trial. There are limitations with information. The cell tower that a particular call is routed through may not be the closest tower or the predicted tower that a phone at a particular location would normally use. During periods of high use or technical problems calls may route through more distant towers. What tower a call is routed though gives a very general indication of where the phone was at the time. Normally the range of one tower will overlap the range of other towers.
The second obvious limitation of this information is that it only works if the phone is used. Since Jenifer did not use her phone during the time in question, no in information was available.
"Ping" information would appear to be far more useful. Every cell phone that is powered on will emit a ping every seven seconds and that ping will be recorded at any cell tower in range that is fully functional and has not max'ed out its capacity. Furthermore, if the ping from a particular phone is picked up at multiple towers, by comparing the strength of the signal, technicians can triangulate the location of the phone with a high degree of accuracy. The trouble is that with every phone in a city pinging every seven seconds of of multiple towers, there would be an incredible amount of information collected and much of this would not be "readily available" .
I have heard of this type of information being used in high profile terrorism investigations but it may have been obtained with the cell phone company knowing in advance to track a particular phone or the information was only found with a painstaking (and expensive) manual search. For whatever reason, a "ping trace" is not available for a routine criminal investigation; which Jennifer's case was.
It is not clear what information Drew's ping study provided but, most likely, the vast majority of the pings from both phones were not identified and what little information was obtained was pretty much worthless.
The second obvious limitation of this information is that it only works if the phone is used. Since Jenifer did not use her phone during the time in question, no in information was available.
"Ping" information would appear to be far more useful. Every cell phone that is powered on will emit a ping every seven seconds and that ping will be recorded at any cell tower in range that is fully functional and has not max'ed out its capacity. Furthermore, if the ping from a particular phone is picked up at multiple towers, by comparing the strength of the signal, technicians can triangulate the location of the phone with a high degree of accuracy. The trouble is that with every phone in a city pinging every seven seconds of of multiple towers, there would be an incredible amount of information collected and much of this would not be "readily available" .
I have heard of this type of information being used in high profile terrorism investigations but it may have been obtained with the cell phone company knowing in advance to track a particular phone or the information was only found with a painstaking (and expensive) manual search. For whatever reason, a "ping trace" is not available for a routine criminal investigation; which Jennifer's case was.
It is not clear what information Drew's ping study provided but, most likely, the vast majority of the pings from both phones were not identified and what little information was obtained was pretty much worthless.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
I think the bf and family were ruled out with polygraph, out of town alibi, etc. On other hand, Orlando police are not going to name any suspects besides the POI parking Jennifer's car. And I guess nameless Latino construction workers with questionable US citizenship appears to be fair game. Maybe someone who is a suspect in another murder (I don't know what the status of that Ocoee guy and missing woman is, and didn't look it up, my bad) can be mentioned, I think we've done that.
Other than that I am sorry to say it's basically waiting for someone to confess on their death bed or something, who knows. Not really anything anyone can look at, and I'm a strong proponent of not naming everyone mentioned in a case as a potential murderer because I've seen it through the years in Chandra Levy case, but Jennifer or anyone's potential behavior hinges on acquaintances and past and present relationships so it's a real catch-22.
Of course that just gets us into activity after 10pm which no one wants to accept anyway so only acceptable thing is to do what's been done for past eleven going on twelve years, and blame a painter who skipped the country. But who managed to make Jennifer disappear before he went.
Other than that I am sorry to say it's basically waiting for someone to confess on their death bed or something, who knows. Not really anything anyone can look at, and I'm a strong proponent of not naming everyone mentioned in a case as a potential murderer because I've seen it through the years in Chandra Levy case, but Jennifer or anyone's potential behavior hinges on acquaintances and past and present relationships so it's a real catch-22.
Of course that just gets us into activity after 10pm which no one wants to accept anyway so only acceptable thing is to do what's been done for past eleven going on twelve years, and blame a painter who skipped the country. But who managed to make Jennifer disappear before he went.
As has been said before (and where the saying originated I do not recall), a coincidence is a clue. (I'm probably paraphrasing. Sorry.)
In a missing person case, almost without fail, the family of the missing rarely look askance at anyone close to the family or the missing person. How many times have we heard "oh, so-and-so would never hurt my missing daughter," or "so-and-so just isn't the type of person who would harm another," etc., etc.
And yet. Over and over again, we find that so-and-so would do such a thing.
EVERYONE should be investigated in a missing person case. Especially those close with and in proximity to the missing person. Yes, that is probably darn uncomfortable to the family. But what is most important? I'd say it is finding the missing person. Everyone else can just deal with uncomfortable feelings.
Unfortunately, many families won't allow the questions to be asked that need answered until it is too late, sometimes years into an investigation. When they finally begin to have doubts, it just might be too late.
I know this cannot be linked, but when looking at the Tampa serial killer footage, I am eerily reminded of the Jennifer Kesse suspect footage. Maybe it is just the quality of images & white garments. I don't know. https://www.salon.com/2017/10/30/po...ted-tampa-serial-killer-and-were-creeped-out/
I thought the exact same thing when i seen this.
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