FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[fridaybaker]

<modsnip>

Rosalinda, interesting about your take on the POI!

Also, I'm hoping that you're joking about "I'd have had every male in Jennifer's circle dressed same as POI and made them walk the exact same route and analysed all the recordings made by that camera". What right would the police, or anyone else, have to do that to "every male in Jennifer's life"? Unless there is some actual evidence that would indicate one of those males, specifically, had anything to do with her disappearance, that would be infringing upon their rights. Neither being a male, nor happening to know JK, are indications of a crime. Sorry if I've misinterpreted you -just wanted to clarify.

 

[rd_jfc]

While that isn't feasible, doing the things we've suggested to confirm the physical profile of the POI and clothes should be done, and should have already been done. That information can be applied in an investigation, should there ever be one.

Having said that, those close to a victim are often asked to take polygraphs. Just as with this suggestion, they can refuse. In fact, lawyers advise against it and loved ones of a victim have to rise above standard legal advise and put the victim's well being over their own to try to help advance the investigation, e.g., police will not seriously investigate others if they suspect someone close to victim is the guilty party and that person is refusing to take a polygraph.

So police do ask for participation in an investigation of anyone connected to victim, but those people have right to refuse as far as infringing on their rights go.

 

[fridaybaker]

I understand that polygraphs can be helpful. An example of this is in the McStay case, wherein the last person known to have had contact with the McStays complied upon being asked to take one. He didn't do well on it and, indeed, several years later, after the finding of the bodies, he is now on trial. However, I would never hold it against anyone who didn't comply, and here is why: In the overwhelming majority of cases I read about here on Websleuths, and certainly in this case, the police/investigators, etc. (as well as in said McStay case) are raked over the coals for being inept and even worse. Why on earth would anyone want to subject themselves to a polygraph, which can be unreliable in and of itself, and then count on an inept investigative team to administer it well, to interpret it well, or use it well? If I had a loved one missing, I'd certainly try to help the investigation in any way, but I'm not sure I'd do a requested polygraph.

My comment above, though, was really just hoping that someone would be joking about every male known to a victim being made to dress as a suspect, etc. Unless there is a specific reason -some real evidence pointing to a certain person- that's a horrifying prospect in my book.

The fact that we have a grainy/blurry video of a suspect is incredibly frustrating, and it sure does seem that there should be a little more of a profile taken from it. Also, I've found it frustrating that there are so many questions bandied about here that should have been answered as definitively as possible long ago. Perhaps they were, but we just don't have an easy way to see all these. They are woven through what must be thousands of threads!

One question I would like an answer to: Her family seems to know everything about her -as much as is possible to know of another adult with whom you don't live- but the whole shower question throws me off. How likely is it that she would have showered in the evening? I find a perp using her shower highly unlikely -not impossible- but it seems key in the timeline of the event. Has anyone here ever heard this addressed?

 

[Ozoner]

I understand that polygraphs can be helpful. An example of this is in the McStay case, wherein the last person known to have had contact with the McStays complied upon being asked to take one. He didn't do well on it and, indeed, several years later, after the finding of the bodies, he is now on trial. However, I would never hold it against anyone who didn't comply, and here is why: In the overwhelming majority of cases I read about here on Websleuths, and certainly in this case, the police/investigators, etc. (as well as in said McStay case) are raked over the coals for being inept and even worse. Why on earth would anyone want to subject themselves to a polygraph, which can be unreliable in and of itself, and then count on an inept investigative team to administer it well, to interpret it well, or use it well? If I had a loved one missing, I'd certainly try to help the investigation in any way, but I'm not sure I'd do a requested polygraph.

My comment above, though, was really just hoping that someone would be joking about every male known to a victim being made to dress as a suspect, etc. Unless there is a specific reason -some real evidence pointing to a certain person- that's a horrifying prospect in my book.

The fact that we have a grainy/blurry video of a suspect is incredibly frustrating, and it sure does seem that there should be a little more of a profile taken from it. Also, I've found it frustrating that there are so many questions bandied about here that should have been answered as definitively as possible long ago. Perhaps they were, but we just don't have an easy way to see all these. They are woven through what must be thousands of threads!

One question I would like an answer to: Her family seems to know everything about her -as much as is possible to know of another adult with whom you don't live- but the whole shower question throws me off. How likely is it that she would have showered in the evening? I find a perp using her shower highly unlikely -not impossible- but it seems key in the timeline of the event. Has anyone here ever heard this addressed?

Considering that she just got home after a long drive, an evening shower seems highly likely--much more likely than a morning abduction in light of the facts of the case.

 

[fridaybaker]

Considering that she just got home after a long drive, an evening shower seems highly likely--much more likely than a morning abduction in light of the facts of the case.

Ozoner, I'm not sure about that. She'd had a long couple of days, if I recall right. I'd more than likely skip the shower and hit the sack after eating some soup, cereal, whatever I could find in the fridge, coupled with a glass of wine and a chat with my friend. But I could easily see how someone else would do the opposite! Ugh. I guess I just am stuck on this shower question because the shower is about the only fly in the ointment for me regarding an evening abduction. The damp towels, nightclothes ( or "underwear"?) on the bathroom floor -these say to me that she took a shower in the a.m., thus the possibility of a morning abduction.

 

[Truth Prevails]

This photo almost looks like a woman with a bun on her head.

Or a "man bun;" or a baseball cap on backwards; or a bike helment--all good guesses, I suppose.

POI clothing always made me think: bakery.

I hear this often and I always wonder what it is that makes people think this.

It's understandable that people want to discern some kind of clue from the POI's clothing. To me, the guy could simply be wearing a t-shirt and chino trousers. It's not even a given that he's wearing a white top, because the police uniforms came out the same due to the camera's exposure.

Yes, this is exactly what I've heard, too.

I agree....There are any number of possibilities , restaurants, bakeries and even a hospital less than 10 miles away from the HOTG....

BBM - this is a very interesting idea. Hospitals employ a large number of medical and non-medical staff, I believe. Shift-workers, too.

And he probably could have taken a bus from the HOG directly to work.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I understand that polygraphs can be helpful. An example of this is in the McStay case, wherein the last person known to have had contact with the McStays complied upon being asked to take one. He didn't do well on it and, indeed, several years later, after the finding of the bodies, he is now on trial. However, I would never hold it against anyone who didn't comply, and here is why: In the overwhelming majority of cases I read about here on Websleuths, and certainly in this case, the police/investigators, etc. (as well as in said McStay case) are raked over the coals for being inept and even worse. Why on earth would anyone want to subject themselves to a polygraph, which can be unreliable in and of itself, and then count on an inept investigative team to administer it well, to interpret it well, or use it well? If I had a loved one missing, I'd certainly try to help the investigation in any way, but I'm not sure I'd do a requested polygraph.

My comment above, though, was really just hoping that someone would be joking about every male known to a victim being made to dress as a suspect, etc. Unless there is a specific reason -some real evidence pointing to a certain person- that's a horrifying prospect in my book.

The fact that we have a grainy/blurry video of a suspect is incredibly frustrating, and it sure does seem that there should be a little more of a profile taken from it. Also, I've found it frustrating that there are so many questions bandied about here that should have been answered as definitively as possible long ago. Perhaps they were, but we just don't have an easy way to see all these. They are woven through what must be thousands of threads!

One question I would like an answer to: Her family seems to know everything about her -as much as is possible to know of another adult with whom you don't live- but the whole shower question throws me off. How likely is it that she would have showered in the evening? I find a perp using her shower highly unlikely -not impossible- but it seems key in the timeline of the event. Has anyone here ever heard this addressed?

BBM to address only this paragraph--I've heard it addressed but not really to my satisfaction.

It's kind of a point I stick on, really.

Mrs. Kesse says that Jenn is/was the type of person to take a morning shower. Always in the morning, apparently--unless she was getting ready to go out for the evening with friends, or something like that.

Considering that she just got home after a long drive, an evening shower seems highly likely--much more likely than a morning abduction in light of the facts of the case.

With nothing but the greatest respect for Mr. and Mrs. Kesse, I can see this, too.

Ozoner, I'm not sure about that. She'd had a long couple of days, if I recall right. I'd more than likely skip the shower and hit the sack after eating some soup, cereal, whatever I could find in the fridge, coupled with a glass of wine and a chat with my friend. But I could easily see how someone else would do the opposite! Ugh. I guess I just am stuck on this shower question because the shower is about the only fly in the ointment for me regarding an evening abduction. The damp towels, nightclothes ( or "underwear"?) on the bathroom floor -these say to me that she took a shower in the a.m., thus the possibility of a morning abduction.

There was absolutely no evidence found that Jenn ate anything that night. The only thing in her garbage was some junk mail. (She had stopped to pick-up her mail when she got to her condo apparently). I find this so, so strange.

This is what I have heard regarding:

The damp towels--only one bath towel. It was found "damp" and hanging over her washer in the laundry room. The door to the laundry room was closed. There is not much here, in my opinion, to make a conclusive decision. How thick was that towel? Was it 100% cotton? Exactly how "damp" was it?

Nightclothes ( or "underwear"?) on the bathroom floor--my understanding is that there was a t-shirt and ladies panties lying on the bathroom floor. Which is what Jennifer would usually sleep in, or so it is said. Right off the bat for me is why wouldn't Jenn have grabbed these things to toss in the laundry hamper as she picked up the towel to hang it in her laundry room? (The laundry room is closer to her condo door, while her bedroom and bathroom adjoin).

 

[fridaybaker]

Truth, I'd like to preface this with a compliment to you. Your comments are always on point but, most of all, full of consideration and class. It's so easy, even just for the sake of typing a comment out quickly, to let our comments seem like criticisms of others. Kudos to you for making sure that isn't the case!

Your noting what seems to be sort of a contradiction between taking the time to put the towel in the laundry room, vs. leaving the clothing on the bathroom floor is interesting. However, could it just be that she didn't want the towel to mildew in the central Florida humidity? It's odd, though, even so. Pick up one; not the others.

Also, regarding the things on the floor, I do remember Mr. Kesse describing her as a "car slob". I remember this from many years ago, as I found the description so apt -for me. I am definitely a "car slob". Anyway, although leaving the things on the floor may not so much jibe with the towel in the laundry room, it does seem to jibe with the car-slob bit. So, I guess no answers here.

Another thing I would like to know is this: Was she known to eat fast-food? Please forgive if this has been discussed here. However, since she'd been gone on vacation for a while, and her first two days back at work were quite long -driving up from south Florida or so, etc., would she have just thought "I'll grab a burger/taco, etc. for the next day or two for dinner until I can go shopping?" I seem to remember that her fridge was pretty empty. So, she just ate in her car maybe? I'd like to hear something along the lines of "JK hated fast-food. She never ate it, etc." to maybe narrow things down a bit. I'd also think Rob would be able to say what she had for dinner since they talked so frequently.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth, responding to the gate comparison photos, you are basically correct. That is the same gate brace if you will. However, don't know if you did it on purpose to compare from the poolhouse to to the poolhouse views, but that's a flipped POI image (heading in wrong direction, timestamp mirrowed, etc.) It's interesting in getting the brace to same side of the gate of those pictures but ultimately could be pretty confusing.

Your point about the height compared to brace, even taking into consideration an angle from poolhouse eaves and some distance out into lane, just further shows how stupid the 5'4 POI height estimate was. I post periodically on how stupid the process was but no matter how I describe it I don't think anyone can visualize how stupid it was.

They had their spokeswomen officer looking like Hunchback of Notre Dame taking giant steps and ran a rope from eaves down to her and said, yep, POI was about 5'4. My guess is that is the height of their spokeswomen that they modelled out there to determine the POI height to start with.

There's a news picture of that I saw that can never be erased from my memory. Should go into stupidest police stunts of all time annals.

Bottom of your comment respectfully snipped by me to address the specific bolded portion.

BBM - I'm going to make a point about this further down. (I would love to have seen that).

Truth, on your sectioning off of parts of POI image and notations, that is really excellent work and much appreciated. All of your image notations are accurate. I would note following:

The "curled fingers" is where the visual artifact object is in image 2, has the same look, and could be the top of it. It is really weird looking but has the same weird look in both images. I'm going to retire my "curled fingers" take because this was not normal, and was out of place, but clearly there was something to it that people weren't considering.

I'm going to go with same object in both images, whatever that object is. To have similar random visual image introduced in both images in same position relative to his body just takes all the randomness out of it. I don't know what could look tubular and coiled like that, but I have noted major hardware on his back from the beginning and I'm inclined to think there may be something to the suggestion that the thigh belting is related to the hardware.

I Googled window washers and I discovered they can actually purchase a small tank that appears to be about the same size as the "arm" shape we are seeing. They are pricey little things, too.

Also--although I couldn't find a really good image--they appear to wear them low on their back, as it appears low on the POI's back.

They can purchase holsters for their squeegees and other equipment, too; and, of course, strapping, as well. (I did not know this.)

In your red bracket of his shoulder, I've always though that was overlaying of two images, one a shoulder patch and the other the side of a front of shirt logo. I could be wrong, it could all be from the shoulder. Note the traditional police / DoD/ Deputy Sheriff badge shaped patch within your brackets, floating over a heavier Harley Davidson like logo extending on forward.

That police badge shaped patch is the identical shape I extracted from image 3 below the POI's face. I couldn't tell whether a badge or patch, hence didn't know whether he had turned his body or just his head. The badge never made any sense, but here we have the same shoulder patch shape in two images ( 1 and 3). Again, stuff like this doesn't happen randomly.

This is one part that I really want to look at better.

(I begged for more hours at work, and now I'm getting tossed a few; so, my time is a little limited at the present, but I will get to it.)

Regarding only one leg, no. We see stepping off left leg, the holster is on his right thigh, the hardware on his right hip and back. if you take a straight line down, you have his head, right shoulder, gate lock, holster on right thigh with thigh straps. I'm assuming right leg is forward. It would have to be to be walking, wouldn't it?

BBM - Oh, yes. I understand it's walking but I walked back and forth in front of my mirror the other day for about two hours, and unless I take a huge, deliberate step my leg doesn't disappear from under my hip like we see in Image 2 of the POI.

And this brings me to the reason I bolded the portion in the first of your comments quoted by me. When you mention them taking giant steps and looking like the Hunchback of Notre Dame, I think they were trying to recreate his walk. They must have known something was wrong with it.

I'm not kidding. Try it. Especially try taking a big step while you pull your hand up high behind your back, dorsal side out. I guarantee you, you will hunch your back while your hip stays straight and your upper thigh propels forward at the odd angle we see in Image 2.

The area you have circled includes the lower holster but is focused a bit on below it. Going down from gate keylock, you have in my opinion a square duty support (in left corner), a round swivel connector, top of holster, thigh strap Y connector to top and mid holster, another band which appears to be another thigh strap, solid, not Y connector, (or possibly a visual artifact), a band of light obscuring across the holster, the bottom of the holster, and additional bands of darkness and light. There's nothing solid below the holster. Could they be clearly defined ridges? Yes, but it's pretty broken up at that point.

Again, really helpful stuff, Truth. I am going to be updating my Blowups page as my understanding changes based on your feedback.

Okay, thank you for this detail. I need fresh eyes and good lighting and patience; but I'm going to get to it. The patch/badge and the strapping are both things I want to spend time on. (Soon.)

Well flipping it is a feature in standardizing positioning in comparing from opposite viewpoints. Just another example of how helpful your work is in understanding.

There is not a sidewalk between the low and high hedges the way it was back then (I haven't been there in many years), but not only is there distance from the fence, but that walkway to the gate is inclined, and not a shallow incline.

On top of that, at the end where that tree was is a wall that extended out into lane and ends at the tree. That tends to divert people futher out into the lane because they will have to stop and walk around the wall were they to stick close to the hedges. One would expect a diagonal path the POI is taking where seen through the gate in a path to the tree where he stops.

Thanks for this, too. I can see the wall in the POI pictures, but I can't find it on my Google map. I'd like to get a better look at it.

 

[liz b.]

BBM to address only this paragraph--I've heard it addressed but not really to my satisfaction.

It's kind of a point I stick on, really.

Mrs. Kesse says that Jenn is/was the type of person to take a morning shower. Always in the morning, apparently--unless she was getting ready to go out for the evening with friends, or something like that.


With nothing but the greatest respect for Mr. and Mrs. Kesse, I can see this, too.


There was absolutely no evidence found that Jenn ate anything that night. The only thing in her garbage was some junk mail. (She had stopped to pick-up her mail when she got to her condo apparently). I find this so, so strange.

This is what I have heard regarding:

The damp towels--only one bath towel. It was found "damp" and hanging over her washer in the laundry room. The door to the laundry room was closed. There is not much here, in my opinion, to make a conclusive decision. How thick was that towel? Was it 100% cotton? Exactly how "damp" was it?

Nightclothes ( or "underwear"?) on the bathroom floor--my understanding is that there was a t-shirt and ladies panties lying on the bathroom floor. Which is what Jennifer would usually sleep in, or so it is said. Right off the bat for me is why wouldn't Jenn have grabbed these things to toss in the laundry hamper as she picked up the towel to hang it in her laundry room? (The laundry room is closer to her condo door, while her bedroom and bathroom adjoin).

Excellent point about leaving the t shirt and underwear on the floor, but taking the time to drape the towel over the washer/or dryer ? And then close the laundry area door ? I always hang towels over the shower rod, never have draped them like that, but jmo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth, I'd like to preface this with a compliment to you. Your comments are always on point but, most of all, full of consideration and class. It's so easy, even just for the sake of typing a comment out quickly, to let our comments seem like criticisms of others. Kudos to you for making sure that isn't the case!

Thank you. I enjoy your comments, too; and hope to "see" you here often.

Your noting what seems to be sort of a contradiction between taking the time to put the towel in the laundry room, vs. leaving the clothing on the bathroom floor is interesting. However, could it just be that she didn't want the towel to mildew in the central Florida humidity? It's odd, though, even so. Pick up one; not the others.

Good point.

Also, regarding the things on the floor, I do remember Mr. Kesse describing her as a "car slob". I remember this from many years ago, as I found the description so apt -for me. I am definitely a "car slob". Anyway, although leaving the things on the floor may not so much jibe with the towel in the laundry room, it does seem to jibe with the car-slob bit. So, I guess no answers here.

You know, I've known people who were apartment slobs but kept their cars immaculate. So, my point is only that I'm not sure that if you're a slob in one place you would necessarily be a slob in the other place, too.

Another thing I would like to know is this: Was she known to eat fast-food? Please forgive if this has been discussed here. However, since she'd been gone on vacation for a while, and her first two days back at work were quite long -driving up from south Florida or so, etc., would she have just thought "I'll grab a burger/taco, etc. for the next day or two for dinner until I can go shopping?" I seem to remember that her fridge was pretty empty. So, she just ate in her car maybe? I'd like to hear something along the lines of "JK hated fast-food. She never ate it, etc." to maybe narrow things down a bit. I'd also think Rob would be able to say what she had for dinner since they talked so frequently.

Just to review the timeline for everyone: (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) Jenn drove to Rob's in Ft. Lauderdale on Wednesday afternoon. They flew to St. Croix on Thursday morning. They flew into the Miami airport on Sunday night (their flight was diverted). A friend of Rob's picked them up at the airport and drove them to Ft. Lauderdale. Jenn stayed the night at Rob's and left at around 6:00 am on Monday morning, January 23, 2006. (Mrs. Kesse talked to her sometime during her drive to work that morning.)

She drove straight to her workplace in Ocoee and worked a full day, leaving around 6 pm.

Jenn's car is recorded going through the toll booth she regularly used at about 6:15 pm Monday evening. She was also talking on her cell phone to her father and brother during this same time period. She picked-up her mail when she arrived at her condo. She left her luggage in her condo foyer area. Sometime during the evening she talked to her girlfriend, Lauren, who described her as being in a "funky" mood; and she talked directly to the guy who left his cell phone at her condo. (I don't believe a time was given for either of these calls).

Mr. Kesse said that someone--possibly a male upstairs neighbor--knocked on Jenn's door. Mrs. Kesse said that Jenn looked out through the peep hole in her door to confirm it was her neighbor. She did not respond to the knock. A time for the knock has not been confirmed; nor who she was talking to as the knock occurred.

Jennifer used her landline to call Rob at 9:57 pm. It is believed the two spoke only briefly, but no ending time for the call has been released.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2006, Jennifer Kesse did not show up for work. For all intents and purposes, Jenn vanished sometime after the 9:57 pm phone call. But people don't vanish. I think something bad happened.

Sorry to get off topic like that.

But regarding your questions about eating fast-food, I think she was the type to stop and grab a sandwich or at least try to be a little healthier say than eating at McDonalds. But keep in mind there are no receipts--no sign of this occurring.

It's also been said that Jennifer liked Chinese take-out.

Mrs. Kesse said there was food in her refrigerator so they assume she grabbed something from her own fridge. However, I can't think of what she could eat without leaving some trace. Even a cup of soup comes in a little paper packet. (Apparently there was a cup in the dish drainer or somewhere like that.)

Mr. Kesse said Jenn didn't drink coffee.

I believe Mrs. Kesse has said that the dishes Jenn's brother ran through the dishwasher before he left Jenn's condo were still in the dishwasher.

I hope no-one worries too much about bringing up something that we may have discussed before. Everyone always brings a little something different to a "review" of a previous discussion. A different viewpoint or a little fact--forgotten or missed--is always interesting.

 

[snowleopard]

Lots of good posts here. Forgive me, but I'm obsessing over the height/weight issue and found some things to chew on. Jennifer's car is a 2004 Chevy Malibu, per Edumunds.com, the roof height is 57 inches. I would say from the Greta Investigate clips. he's about a human head above the roofline in height, say 9 inches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_head), which would make him about 5' 6". To my eye, from the video clip, he also appears to be fairly slim with longish legs. I don't know how much the video camera distorts this, but typically, shooting downward the subject tends to look shorter or more compressed on average, so I'm definitely leaning 'slim/long'. So, with the help of some online tools (https://height-weight-chart.com/ , http://bodyvisualizer.com/male.html), I'd say the unsub's weight (assuming he's reasonably lean and fit), is appx 110-120 lbs. That would be underweight to low-normal for an adult male. My hunch is he's pretty young, like late teens to early 20's. JM02.

 

[rd_jfc]

Thank you. I enjoy your comments, too; and hope to "see" you here often.

Good point.

You know, I've known people who were apartment slobs but kept their cars immaculate. So, my point is only that I'm not sure that if you're a slob in one place you would necessarily be a slob in the other place, too.


Just to review the timeline for everyone: (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) Jenn drove to Rob's in Ft. Lauderdale on Wednesday afternoon. They flew to St. Croix on Thursday morning. They flew into the Miami airport on Sunday night (their flight was diverted). A friend of Rob's picked them up at the airport and drove them to Ft. Lauderdale. Jenn stayed the night at Rob's and left at around 6:00 am on Monday morning, January 23, 2006. (Mrs. Kesse talked to her sometime during her drive to work that morning.)

She drove straight to her workplace in Ocoee and worked a full day, leaving around 6 pm.

Jenn's car is recorded going through the toll booth she regularly used at about 6:15 pm Monday evening. She was also talking on her cell phone to her father and brother during this same time period. She picked-up her mail when she arrived at her condo. She left her luggage in her condo foyer area. Sometime during the evening she talked to her girlfriend, Lauren, who described her as being in a "funky" mood; and she talked directly to the guy who left his cell phone at her condo. (I don't believe a time was given for either of these calls).

Mr. Kesse said that someone--possibly a male upstairs neighbor--knocked on Jenn's door. Mrs. Kesse said that Jenn looked out through the peep hole in her door to confirm it was her neighbor. She did not respond to the knock. A time for the knock has not been confirmed; nor who she was talking to as the knock occurred.

Jennifer used her landline to call Rob at 9:57 pm. It is believed the two spoke only briefly, but no ending time for the call has been released.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2006, Jennifer Kesse did not show up for work. For all intents and purposes, Jenn vanished sometime after the 9:57 pm phone call. But people don't vanish. I think something bad happened.

Sorry to get off topic like that.

But regarding your questions about eating fast-food, I think she was the type to stop and grab a sandwich or at least try to be a little healthier say than eating at McDonalds. But keep in mind there are no receipts--no sign of this occurring.

It's also been said that Jennifer liked Chinese take-out.

Mrs. Kesse said there was food in her refrigerator so they assume she grabbed something from her own fridge. However, I can't think of what she could eat without leaving some trace. Even a cup of soup comes in a little paper packet. (Apparently there was a cup in the dish drainer or somewhere like that.)

Mr. Kesse said Jenn didn't drink coffee.

I believe Mrs. Kesse has said that the dishes Jenn's brother ran through the dishwasher before he left Jenn's condo were still in the dishwasher.

I hope no-one worries too much about bringing up something that we may have discussed before. Everyone always brings a little something different to a "review" of a previous discussion. A different viewpoint or a little fact--forgotten or missed--is always interesting.

Not only do I not mind, but that is the most informative summary of what she did I've seen. There are scads of details in there that aren't normally posted. Thanks for all of that. For example, she looked out peephole and confirmed was neighbor is new here altogether. Talked directly to her brother's friend that evening. Well, he would know quite a bit about her expressed intentions on sending it back. I thought possibly it was all back and forth through her family that evening.

Also, "food in the fridge". The food would have either been left by her brother, and she wouldn't have known it was there, or almost a week old. If frozen, there is usually something in trash from unwrapping and unthawing frozen food. The "there was food in fridge" is distinctly dismissive of why there is no food wrappers in trash, yet makes little sense. It is as if they know this is what she did without quite being specific about how they know. That's fine, but one needs very positive grounds for doing that.

In addition, the details about the dishwasher indicate that she didn't use a dish or bowl to eat something from the fridge. It is possible she ate at work and wasn't hungry, but indications to me are that there's strong bias against any reason for Jennifer to leave after her phone call with her bf. I don't know how much that bias is reflected in what's being said of Jennifer's activities.

 

[rd_jfc]

Lots of good posts here. Forgive me, but I'm obsessing over the height/weight issue and found some things to chew on. Jennifer's car is a 2004 Chevy Malibu, per Edumunds.com, the roof height is 57 inches. I would say from the Greta Investigate clips. he's about a human head above the roofline in height, say 9 inches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_head), which would make him about 5' 6". To my eye, from the video clip, he also appears to be fairly slim with longish legs. I don't know how much the video camera distorts this, but typically, shooting downward the subject tends to look shorter or more compressed on average, so I'm definitely leaning 'slim/long'. So, with the help of some online tools (https://height-weight-chart.com/ , http://bodyvisualizer.com/male.html), I'd say the unsub's weight (assuming he's reasonably lean and fit), is appx 110-120 lbs. That would be underweight to low-normal for an adult male. My hunch is he's pretty young, like late teens to early 20's. JM02.

That is really helpful and solid feedback. Thanks so much, snowleopard.

I would comment that one mitigating factor is that the camera is on roof of the poolhouse. But there are three frames of interest after car is pulled up and parked. One, some white is seen as car door is opened. Two, you have emergence of POI, with full white height. But third frame is really of interest.

You will see an extension of arm, horizontal. When I looked at this last year and did a couple of quick enlargements, my take was that he was putting on a backpack type device, but neither here nor there, he extends his arm horizontally. (btw, the white horizontal extension is where one can see he's wearing long sleeves.)

It is in that frame that you see the extended arm is quite high compared to the car, and would be his shoulder height. imo that makes him considerably taller than 5'6, I estimated that it looked a little closer to me standing next to car with a 5'7 to 5'8 height, but probably more the low end of my standing next to tree estimate, 5'9. And maybe closer to the upper end of my estimate, 5'11. I don't know. But this is an area where info and estimates like you're bringing really helps.

I know three inches difference isn't huge, but there's a large difference in effect it has on 5'6 versus 5'9 in population. So thanks for that estimate.

 

[liz b.]

Lots of good posts here. Forgive me, but I'm obsessing over the height/weight issue and found some things to chew on. Jennifer's car is a 2004 Chevy Malibu, per Edumunds.com, the roof height is 57 inches. I would say from the Greta Investigate clips. he's about a human head above the roofline in height, say 9 inches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_head), which would make him about 5' 6". To my eye, from the video clip, he also appears to be fairly slim with longish legs. I don't know how much the video camera distorts this, but typically, shooting downward the subject tends to look shorter or more compressed on average, so I'm definitely leaning 'slim/long'. So, with the help of some online tools (https://height-weight-chart.com/ , http://bodyvisualizer.com/male.html), I'd say the unsub's weight (assuming he's reasonably lean and fit), is appx 110-120 lbs. That would be underweight to low-normal for an adult male. My hunch is he's pretty young, like late teens to early 20's. JM02.

I recall that when Mr. Kesse discussed the knock on her door, he said that JK did NOT get up out of bed to answer it. * Sorry * I meant to quote the post before this one, in which it was stated that Mrs Kesse said that JK got up and looked through the peep hole in her door.

 

[fridaybaker]

Sorry in advance for the long post. Mostly thinking "on paper" here, I guess.

Food: Some mail in the trash can, but no food-eating evidence -wrappers or dishes (except a cup) about the kitchen. Fridge nearly empty. Dishes in washer clean and seem to have been left by brother. There, apparently, weren't any food wrappers, etc. in her vehicle when found. Where does this leave us?

She first got to her condo after the trip on Monday evening after work. She goes missing on Wednesday morning. That leaves four meals that would usually have been eaten at the condo missing, right? However, many women don't eat breakfast. I'm not sure if JK was one of those, maybe I've missed that info. Many, many, women don't, though. So, at least two dinners -one on Monday night and one on Tuesday night. Perhaps we're over-thinking this: Why would anything be amiss on Monday night? There aren't any indications as to such, but there are no food wrappers/dishes from Monday night, so why would there be on Tuesday?

I think this is an indication that she was likely picked something up on the way home, and ditched the sack/wrappings, at the same place she bought it. Sat in the parking lot of a Whole Foods, Chinese take-out, etc., ate, threw out the wrappers, finished driving home.

What is the problem with this? I don't see it in Truth's timeline above, but I seem to recall somewhere that we have an idea, on at least one night, of what time she actually made it to her condo, so can see if this is a possibility. (And what else is there?) I'll look into that.

Meanwhile, on the Laundry Front: I don't necessarily think the Jennifer kept a messy apartment; however, the "car slob" comment was used by Mr. Kesse, I believe, as important information regarding items in/state of her car. The fact that he considered it worthy of mention makes me think of her apartment: Would a "car slob", even while generally keeping a neat apartment, be fairly likely to leave a few things on the floor of the bathroom whilst trying to "get out the door" in the morning? Even if she dreaded returning to a mildewed towel, she might be one to do a quick sweep of things on her return in the evening vs. taking the extra half-minute to pick up the underwear.

There are some people who won't leave a dirty dish in the sink, and some people who keep very neat homes generally, but getting out the door in the morning for a woman is complicated! Pick an outfit, then comes the matching: You know --shoes match/complement the bag, nail color complements lip color, which should coordinate with the clothing. Hair has to be "done", make-up applied. After the moisturizer, obviously. Eyebrows, after a few days, like on a trip, need to be plucked. Legs shaved. Earrings chosen and put in. Which watch to wear today? Bag taken on the trip isn't one to take to work, and certainly doesn't match the Tuesday outfit, so contents need to be transferred. Heels are awful to drive in, so put on the tennis shoes and throw the chosen heels into the briefcase/work satchel. One more step. Yes folks, it's complicated! Underwear, t-shirt, whatever is on the floor, will have to wait.

So, where does that leave us? Well, I can believe from this picture that she got up, showered, draped the towel over the washing machine in the laundry room so it would actually get dry (my experience from living in Orlando is that they often just. never. dry) and went out the door like any other morning. Then, someone grabbed her as she went out and put her in the empty apartment across the hall, or grabbed her at her car, forced her in, picked up any evidence, etc.

Or, her abductor was in her apartment and staged the "shower setting". I really find this a long shot: It's certainly possible that someone would go to such lengths as to strew underwear on the floor, etc. but, again, a really, really long shot.

Another possibility: Whatever happened, did so in the evening before. She took a shower in the evening, for whatever reason, and there's really no way to know the reason -could be she simply did so after a long day at work, or did so because she was going out. Not likely, though, since she'd had a long couple of days, and everyone seems to be of the impression that she wasn't the type to go out late in the evening on a work-night. If she did indeed go out, I'd think it would most likely be for something like the cell phone errand, although, I still can't quite wrap my mind around that -safely ensconced at home after work, talking on phone at almost 10 at night, then deciding to go to FedEx? I don't think so.

So, could she have showered in the evening and the towel is still damp at mid-day the next day? As I mentioned above, I can see it. (No, we don't know the thickness of the towels, but in my experience, the trend, going back for many years now, is "the thicker the towel, the better". They're so thick and heavy these days, I feel like you need "man-sized hands" to even use them. Anything but the cheapest of the cheap towels will be quite heavy and thick.)

We still have the items on the floor. Somehow I think the items on the floor fit better with a morning, before work, shower.

What are the other possibilities?

 

[wpaylor]

That is really helpful and solid feedback. Thanks so much, snowleopard.

I would comment that one mitigating factor is that the camera is on roof of the poolhouse. But there are three frames of interest after car is pulled up and parked. One, some white is seen as car door is opened. Two, you have emergence of POI, with full white height. But third frame is really of interest.

You will see an extension of arm, horizontal. When I looked at this last year and did a couple of quick enlargements, my take was that he was putting on a backpack type device, but neither here nor there, he extends his arm horizontally. (btw, the white horizontal extension is where one can see he's wearing long sleeves.)

It is in that frame that you see the extended arm is quite high compared to the car, and would be his shoulder height. imo that makes him considerably taller than 5'6, I estimated that it looked a little closer to me standing next to car with a 5'7 to 5'8 height, but probably more the low end of my standing next to tree estimate, 5'9. And maybe closer to the upper end of my estimate, 5'11. I don't know. But this is an area where info and estimates like you're bringing really helps.

I know three inches difference isn't huge, but there's a large difference in effect it has on 5'6 versus 5'9 in population. So thanks for that estimate.

I would like to compliment you and Truth on the excellent work on the POI photos! I truly believe you both are fairly close to finding a HUGE clue to, at the very least, his occupation, if not his identity. Truly in awe!!!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[rd_jfc]

just a quick comment, friday. She went missing next morning, Tuesday morning. It's just a Monday coming home from work and Tuesday getting ready for work time frame for eating anything. I consider nothing there to be highly indicative but that is the time frame involved.

 

[wpaylor]

Sorry in advance for the long post. Mostly thinking "on paper" here, I guess.

Food: Some mail in the trash can, but no food-eating evidence -wrappers or dishes (except a cup) about the kitchen. Fridge nearly empty. Dishes in washer clean and seem to have been left by brother. There, apparently, weren't any food wrappers, etc. in her vehicle when found. Where does this leave us?

She first got to her condo after the trip on Monday evening after work. She goes missing on Wednesday morning. That leaves four meals that would usually have been eaten at the condo missing, right? However, many women don't eat breakfast. I'm not sure if JK was one of those, maybe I've missed that info. Many, many, women don't, though. So, at least two dinners -one on Monday night and one on Tuesday night. Perhaps we're over-thinking this: Why would anything be amiss on Monday night? There aren't any indications as to such, but there are no food wrappers/dishes from Monday night, so why would there be on Tuesday?

I think this is an indication that she was likely picked something up on the way home, and ditched the sack/wrappings, at the same place she bought it. Sat in the parking lot of a Whole Foods, Chinese take-out, etc., ate, threw out the wrappers, finished driving home.

What is the problem with this? I don't see it in Truth's timeline above, but I seem to recall somewhere that we have an idea, on at least one night, of what time she actually made it to her condo, so can see if this is a possibility. (And what else is there?) I'll look into that.

Meanwhile, on the Laundry Front: I don't necessarily think the Jennifer kept a messy apartment; however, the "car slob" comment was used by Mr. Kesse, I believe, as important information regarding items in/state of her car. The fact that he considered it worthy of mention makes me think of her apartment: Would a "car slob", even while generally keeping a neat apartment, be fairly likely to leave a few things on the floor of the bathroom whilst trying to "get out the door" in the morning? Even if she dreaded returning to a mildewed towel, she might be one to do a quick sweep of things on her return in the evening vs. taking the extra half-minute to pick up the underwear.

There are some people who won't leave a dirty dish in the sink, and some people who keep very neat homes generally, but getting out the door in the morning for a woman is complicated! Pick an outfit, then comes the matching: You know --shoes match/complement the bag, nail color complements lip color, which should coordinate with the clothing. Hair has to be "done", make-up applied. After the moisturizer, obviously. Eyebrows, after a few days, like on a trip, need to be plucked. Legs shaved. Earrings chosen and put in. Which watch to wear today? Bag taken on the trip isn't one to take to work, and certainly doesn't match the Tuesday outfit, so contents need to be transferred. Heels are awful to drive in, so put on the tennis shoes and throw the chosen heels into the briefcase/work satchel. One more step. Yes folks, it's complicated! Underwear, t-shirt, whatever is on the floor, will have to wait.

So, where does that leave us? Well, I can believe from this picture that she got up, showered, draped the towel over the washing machine in the laundry room so it would actually get dry (my experience from living in Orlando is that they often just. never. dry) and went out the door like any other morning. Then, someone grabbed her as she went out and put her in the empty apartment across the hall, or grabbed her at her car, forced her in, picked up any evidence, etc.

Or, her abductor was in her apartment and staged the "shower setting". I really find this a long shot: It's certainly possible that someone would go to such lengths as to strew underwear on the floor, etc. but, again, a really, really long shot.

Another possibility: Whatever happened, did so in the evening before. She took a shower in the evening, for whatever reason, and there's really no way to know the reason -could be she simply did so after a long day at work, or did so because she was going out. Not likely, though, since she'd had a long couple of days, and everyone seems to be of the impression that she wasn't the type to go out late in the evening on a work-night. If she did indeed go out, I'd think it would most likely be for something like the cell phone errand, although, I still can't quite wrap my mind around that -safely ensconced at home after work, talking on phone at almost 10 at night, then deciding to go to FedEx? I don't think so.

So, could she have showered in the evening and the towel is still damp at mid-day the next day? As I mentioned above, I can see it. (No, we don't know the thickness of the towels, but in my experience, the trend, going back for many years now, is "the thicker the towel, the better". They're so thick and heavy these days, I feel like you need "man-sized hands" to even use them. Anything but the cheapest of the cheap towels will be quite heavy and thick.)

We still have the items on the floor. Somehow I think the items on the floor fit better with a morning, before work, shower.

What are the other possibilities?

I believe it.was Tuesday morning that Jennifer disappeared.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[liz b.]

Sorry in advance for the long post. Mostly thinking "on paper" here, I guess.

Food: Some mail in the trash can, but no food-eating evidence -wrappers or dishes (except a cup) about the kitchen. Fridge nearly empty. Dishes in washer clean and seem to have been left by brother. There, apparently, weren't any food wrappers, etc. in her vehicle when found. Where does this leave us?

She first got to her condo after the trip on Monday evening after work. She goes missing on Wednesday morning. That leaves four meals that would usually have been eaten at the condo missing, right? However, many women don't eat breakfast. I'm not sure if JK was one of those, maybe I've missed that info. Many, many, women don't, though. So, at least two dinners -one on Monday night and one on Tuesday night. Perhaps we're over-thinking this: Why would anything be amiss on Monday night? There aren't any indications as to such, but there are no food wrappers/dishes from Monday night, so why would there be on Tuesday?

I think this is an indication that she was likely picked something up on the way home, and ditched the sack/wrappings, at the same place she bought it. Sat in the parking lot of a Whole Foods, Chinese take-out, etc., ate, threw out the wrappers, finished driving home.

What is the problem with this? I don't see it in Truth's timeline above, but I seem to recall somewhere that we have an idea, on at least one night, of what time she actually made it to her condo, so can see if this is a possibility. (And what else is there?) I'll look into that.

Meanwhile, on the Laundry Front: I don't necessarily think the Jennifer kept a messy apartment; however, the "car slob" comment was used by Mr. Kesse, I believe, as important information regarding items in/state of her car. The fact that he considered it worthy of mention makes me think of her apartment: Would a "car slob", even while generally keeping a neat apartment, be fairly likely to leave a few things on the floor of the bathroom whilst trying to "get out the door" in the morning? Even if she dreaded returning to a mildewed towel, she might be one to do a quick sweep of things on her return in the evening vs. taking the extra half-minute to pick up the underwear.

There are some people who won't leave a dirty dish in the sink, and some people who keep very neat homes generally, but getting out the door in the morning for a woman is complicated! Pick an outfit, then comes the matching: You know --shoes match/complement the bag, nail color complements lip color, which should coordinate with the clothing. Hair has to be "done", make-up applied. After the moisturizer, obviously. Eyebrows, after a few days, like on a trip, need to be plucked. Legs shaved. Earrings chosen and put in. Which watch to wear today? Bag taken on the trip isn't one to take to work, and certainly doesn't match the Tuesday outfit, so contents need to be transferred. Heels are awful to drive in, so put on the tennis shoes and throw the chosen heels into the briefcase/work satchel. One more step. Yes folks, it's complicated! Underwear, t-shirt, whatever is on the floor, will have to wait.

So, where does that leave us? Well, I can believe from this picture that she got up, showered, draped the towel over the washing machine in the laundry room so it would actually get dry (my experience from living in Orlando is that they often just. never. dry) and went out the door like any other morning. Then, someone grabbed her as she went out and put her in the empty apartment across the hall, or grabbed her at her car, forced her in, picked up any evidence, etc.

Or, her abductor was in her apartment and staged the "shower setting". I really find this a long shot: It's certainly possible that someone would go to such lengths as to strew underwear on the floor, etc. but, again, a really, really long shot.

Another possibility: Whatever happened, did so in the evening before. She took a shower in the evening, for whatever reason, and there's really no way to know the reason -could be she simply did so after a long day at work, or did so because she was going out. Not likely, though, since she'd had a long couple of days, and everyone seems to be of the impression that she wasn't the type to go out late in the evening on a work-night. If she did indeed go out, I'd think it would most likely be for something like the cell phone errand, although, I still can't quite wrap my mind around that -safely ensconced at home after work, talking on phone at almost 10 at night, then deciding to go to FedEx? I don't think so.

So, could she have showered in the evening and the towel is still damp at mid-day the next day? As I mentioned above, I can see it. (No, we don't know the thickness of the towels, but in my experience, the trend, going back for many years now, is "the thicker the towel, the better". They're so thick and heavy these days, I feel like you need "man-sized hands" to even use them. Anything but the cheapest of the cheap towels will be quite heavy and thick.)

We still have the items on the floor. Somehow I think the items on the floor fit better with a morning, before work, shower.

What are the other possibilities?

I recall Mrs. Kesse mentioning how JK liked to keep her home very neat. As for food wrappers etc in the car : the car was likely cleaned out by the same person who parked it. jmo I think she would have eaten at some point, and it doesn't look like she ate at home. However, I thought I read that there was no debit/credit card info to signal that she bought food ? Might have paid cash, I guess. jmo