FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[Truth Prevails]

That's actually an interesting thought. Or himself to come back by driving later and pick it up hidden in the hedge. He was doing something there for 20 seconds. Even if it was a taser and he was legally allowed to carry it, I would think it would draw attention he wouldn't want at that time.

I just have to think that he would need more than just show a gun to Jennifer and she would meekly allow herself to be abducted. I expect the point of carrying a weapon was to use it to disable. It's not one of those things you hear much about being used in abductions, but it certainly will disable you as police often do.

One interesting thing about a taser--at least to me--is that I think it wouldn't leave much evidence of a struggle behind. Say, for one example, someone came to Jenn's condo door that she knew well enough to feel comfortable in removing the chair and unlocking and opening her door. If he was prepared with the taser, could he aim and fire quickly and just cause her to collapse in the hallway by her door, allowing him to carry or drag her to the condo across the hall? Leaving no evidence of a struggle, because, I guess, there wouldn't truly have been one.

And example two is--what if he surprised Jenn by coming in her sliding balcony doors? I'm not at all comfortable with my understanding of what type of lock or safety measures Jenn would have taken with her 2nd floor balcony door. This is just something I believe--I don't feel a young, physically fit male would find a second floor balcony much of a challenge to get to--so, how securely were those doors locked? Say, he surprised her even as she slept--it wouldn't give her much time to press the panic button; or suppose she leaped from her bed and ran toward the balcony doors as she heard him enter. If he fired the taser right away, I don't believe much evidence of a struggle would have remained.

Tasers might have improved since 2006, but they were around and someone who may have pre-planned enough to obtain even say a false security uniform, would possibly have some knowledge or experience with them. Also, considering that the person or persons may have known Jenn even in a distant circle of acquaintances, he may have considered a method such as this to get around how safety conscious she was and her ability to defend herself.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Thanks for taking a hard look, Truth. I started to take a look at the images to mention where I'm seeing the shoulder patches and I was amazed that I pretty much see all that I've been pointing out in the original images. Very clearly. I'm thinking that condition that guy said I have must be getting worse.

Nah, don't ever beat yourself up, rd.

You can see it clearly because your experience dictates such. It's our problem that we can't.

Stand tall and carry on. The rest of us will have to try to catch up.

 

[Truth Prevails]

This is really good work. I spent a very few hours last summer doing some work like this to gauge height next to car but I certainly didn't produce anything this clean. Still, here's what I concluded.

At 12:59:43 CAM2 time POI emerges from car. I'm going to lower my estimate of POI height based on height compared to car versus the palm tree. It looks more like me standing next to the car, I'm 5'7. I would lower POI height estimate to 5'7 to 5'8 from 5'9 to 5'11 now that I've seen POI standing next to car.

Well, drats. I was hoping to hear you say something like you thought perhaps he was in the vicinity of 5'11' to 6' tall.

The whiteness of the clothing as seen in the video is disconcerting. Even though I know it's infrared doing it it's difficult to mentally picture in darker clothes. I did think of something that should be done. I have through the years asked for the make, model, and settings of the gate camera so that I could test what kind of clothes show up as what. Well clearly after eleven years no one wants to give out that info.

It's seems every little bit of everything that might confirm anything in this case has to be considered top secret stuff.

But something better just occurred to me. The police had to go through at least a day's worth of surveillance of both cameras to find the POI images. They would have seen several people walking by gate for example. They would have been able to see whether POI clothes were abnormally light compared to others, I mean most people wouldn't be wearing all white. And they would know whether POI looked like most other people or was one of very few to be in very light colored clothing.

Yeah, and this is interesting to note because it was said--I believe through MSM links--that the first notice of the abnormal clothing colors occurred at the gate of the HOG, as law enforcement tried to confirm the height of the POI. So, why wouldn't they have noticed this sooner?

I would certainly hope that the surveillance tapes that were reviewed to get these images weren't discarded. This could be done even now and have a very good determination if POI was wearing white clothes while others looked normal darker colors than all white.

Discarded or accidentally missed placed over the 12 years. Oh, surely not--because this would be somewhat of a good place to start if they were serious about taking a fresh look from the beginning. A better indication of the coloring of the clothing might help jog someone's memory. There would be that chance anyway.

I did some very rough resizing and contrast adjustments to make out the POI figure better. Standing next to the car the POI is a solid build, not thin, not heavy. There is dark shading around his middle. This is not well defined like a belt but just a general wider dark shading around the middle.

Head and dark above head are visible. He extends his right arm and the arm is all white just like rest of his clothes. To me it is clear he is wearing a long sleeved shirt. It looks like a band of darkness around his wrist area.

Next image that I stopped on was at 12:59:44. Here his back is much darker. It looks to me like he slung a backpack type device over his back from :43 to :44 (image seconds are not very accurate as we saw with gate POI images). I have noted that equipment on his back in image 2 of gate images and it looks like he did sling that over his back when he got out of the car.

Whether Greta saw any of this I don't know. Off to take my meds now.

Well, if he had a long sleeve shirt on at that point he would had to have taken it off before he got to the gate--do you agree? Because it's appears evident to my somewhat useless eyes that he was in short sleeves. Could he have tied his sweater around his waist like some people do? I'm even wondering if this could result in the baggy pants, very low crotch area look--giving him a short-legged appearance.

Part 2 of the Greta special gets interesting around the 3 minute mark. The whole thing is only about 14 minutes long. They zoom in on two cameras, but to me it appears that the locations are on each end of the pool house. So, it doesn't really make sense if I compare it to my understanding of what you say you saw with your own eyes.

As the special progresses she shows different clips of the POI video, mostly--in my opinion--to discuss the path the POI took around the pool and to the gate. I think you will discover she doesn't really get into any of the things you are hoping for but I find her video stills are surprisingly clear. I suspect she had a much better copy of the POI video than us internet folks have seen.

But, I'll link it below, in case you want to take a quick look or in case anyone does.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3642478584001/?#sp=show-clips

 

[Truth Prevails]

We need to concentrate on all known associates, everyone and anyone she had interactions w. The video is an issue that has caused tunnel vision. imo.

BBM--I agree.

Regarding your first point, though, I just want to humbly mention Websleuths' rules. I don't think we are allowed to sleuth anyone not officially named a suspect--and that would leave us with no-one.

That's simply my understanding. I may be wrong.

I would sure like to hear that LE is doing it.

 

[Truth Prevails]

A badge of some type would seem to indicate a shift worker, not a eight to five worker, for what it's worth.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Good point.

A couple of other possibilities that come to my mind are: maybe it's an old uniform he somehow came across belonging to a deceased relative or friend; or something he found at a used clothing store. Maybe even something he rented?

But I think it would have to be something that he felt he could blend into the crowd with. I would be surprised if it was anything outlandish. But it's hard to be sure of what some people consider normal.

 

[scadagirl28]

Has anyone done any work on the POI’s clothing colour? Ie changing it to a darker shade, as the white is throwing people ?

It wouldn't suprise me if the shirt is white but the pants are khakis. Just pure speculation on my part but I think he junked his work shirt .

 

[scadagirl28]

It is interesting how two people can see the very same thing and come to different conclusions . I do see a holster type but to me it looks more like a safety harness. The type for roof work . It also could hold a double sprayer .

 

[liz b.]

This is really good work. I spent a very few hours last summer doing some work like this to gauge height next to car but I certainly didn't produce anything this clean. Still, here's what I concluded.

At 12:59:43 CAM2 time POI emerges from car. I'm going to lower my estimate of POI height based on height compared to car versus the palm tree. It looks more like me standing next to the car, I'm 5'7. I would lower POI height estimate to 5'7 to 5'8 from 5'9 to 5'11 now that I've seen POI standing next to car.

The whiteness of the clothing as seen in the video is disconcerting. Even though I know it's infrared doing it it's difficult to mentally picture in darker clothes. I did think of something that should be done. I have through the years asked for the make, model, and settings of the gate camera so that I could test what kind of clothes show up as what. Well clearly after eleven years no one wants to give out that info.

But something better just occurred to me. The police had to go through at least a day's worth of surveillance of both cameras to find the POI images. They would have seen several people walking by gate for example. They would have been able to see whether POI clothes were abnormally light compared to others, I mean most people wouldn't be wearing all white. And they would know whether POI looked like most other people or was one of very few to be in very light colored clothing.

I would certainly hope that the surveillance tapes that were reviewed to get these images weren't discarded. This could be done even now and have a very good determination if POI was wearing white clothes while others looked normal darker colors than all white.

I did some very rough resizing and contrast adjustments to make out the POI figure better. Standing next to the car the POI is a solid build, not thin, not heavy. There is dark shading around his middle. This is not well defined like a belt but just a general wider dark shading around the middle.

Head and dark above head are visible. He extends his right arm and the arm is all white just like rest of his clothes. To me it is clear he is wearing a long sleeved shirt. It looks like a band of darkness around his wrist area.

Next image that I stopped on was at 12:59:44. Here his back is much darker. It looks to me like he slung a backpack type device over his back from :43 to :44 (image seconds are not very accurate as we saw with gate POI images). I have noted that equipment on his back in image 2 of gate images and it looks like he did sling that over his back when he got out of the car.

Whether Greta saw any of this I don't know. Off to take my meds now.

I want to thank you for your dedication to JK's case. I don't comment on the images because I am never able to see such things on videos. Like gravity, that doesn't mean they aren't there. I do have one question : in your opinion, is it possible he actually was dressed all in white ? Thanks again.

 

[Truth Prevails]

It is interesting how two people can see the very same thing and come to different conclusions . I do see a holster type but to me it looks more like a safety harness. The type for roof work . It also could hold a double sprayer .

Oh, this is interesting. I think I'm off on my own little tangent here, but if maybe it is a safety harness, I wonder if he had brought some equipment that could have offered assistance in getting up on Jenn's second floor balcony?

I know I'm being a bit off the charts with this, but even Mr. Kesse says to let the crazies spin their yarns because you never know what they might come up with.

Speaking only of myself, of course.

 

[rd_jfc]

A badge of some type would seem to indicate a shift worker, not a eight to five worker, for what it's worth.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I agree, but indications to me now from all images is that of a shoulder patch such along the line of Orange County Sheriff, the badge shaped shoulder patch on the Security shirt I picture on Blowups page, or other shoulder patches with a descending arc to them, not round or oblong for example.

This is based on side view of shoulder area, and shoulder patches are much larger than badges as well. These are largish shapes.

 

[rd_jfc]

Has anyone done any work on the POI’s clothing colour? Ie changing it to a darker shade, as the white is throwing people ?

I don't think we'd have any idea what color they are. The OPD said their own uniforms showed up light in the camera, but they (not surprisingly) didn't indicate how it compared to POI. They reviewed days worth of surveillance, they didn't compare POI to everyone else. They didn't give out camera model and settings so tests could be run by people with more time than they have to see what clothes would look like this (maybe a wide range of colors).

And I'm sure they didn't put any effort into it, they said "don't worry about the clothes".

There's our crack investigation right there, nothing's changed in 12 years.

 

[rd_jfc]

Going from my understanding of the above, I tried to mark the camera locations. I was wondering if you would confirm that I have them correctly marked? (And I'm only asking, if you don't have time to respond--no worries).

Hope you get some answers.

Yes, that is what I expect the setup was. It is only unofficial that there was a CAM1 that wasn't working. I read it here many years ago, as with about everything else, no one will provide any info, and who could wonder why Jennifer's disappearance is in the same place today it was when she disappeared.

I surely hope just from general knowledge someone knows how the footage is generated that keeps the POI centered as he walks around the pool even though the timestamp shows that we are traversing across a wide angle view.

 

[rd_jfc]

Truth Prevails wrote: "Well, drats. I was hoping to hear you say something like you thought perhaps he was in the vicinity of 5'11' to 6' tall."

I don't know, but that's certainly something all of us can give a good estimate on, the image is very good and clear standing next to car. I will take another look later, I'd like to see some people standing next to cars and knowing their approximate height. You may very well be right.

I have been saying 5'9 to 5'11 based on tree, but I thought he didn't tower over car enough for that.

 

[windrower]

I agree, but indications to me now from all images is that of a shoulder patch such along the line of Orange County Sheriff, the badge shaped shoulder patch on the Security shirt I picture on Blowups page, or other shoulder patches with a descending arc to them, not round or oblong for example.

This is based on side view of shoulder area, and shoulder patches are much larger than badges as well. These are largish shapes.

My question has probably already been asked and answered, but . . . Would Jennifer open her door late at night to someone she thought was from a law enforcement agency?

 

[rd_jfc]

Truth Prevails wrote: "Because it's appears evident to my somewhat useless eyes that he was in short sleeves."

The interesting thing is that there isn't an actual look that shows short sleeves in image 1 or image 2, i.e., where you can his arm coming out of a short sleeve. If there is, someone could point it out and I'll take another look.

 

[rd_jfc]

It is interesting how two people can see the very same thing and come to different conclusions . I do see a holster type but to me it looks more like a safety harness. The type for roof work . It also could hold a double sprayer .

This is very good. There is hardware on his back and I don't see anything in the "holster", just shaped like a minimal holster with strange web shaped thigh straps. There also was believed to be a tank on his back, some suggested a water tank. I am inclined to think you are on to something here.

 

[rd_jfc]

I want to thank you for your dedication to JK's case. I don't comment on the images because I am never able to see such things on videos. Like gravity, that doesn't mean they aren't there. I do have one question : in your opinion, is it possible he actually was dressed all in white ? Thanks again.

It is possible. Thats why I wanted to see different clothes in the camera and see what range of colors produces this look. But we would need the camera model and settings. Alternatives would be that POI looks lighter than other clothes of people surveilled that day, etc. Being able to look at the surveillance tape again would be a big help.

 

[Truth Prevails]

My question has probably already been asked and answered, but . . . Would Jennifer open her door late at night to someone she thought was from a law enforcement agency?

I debate about this myself, so appreciate you mentioning it.

Unless she knew someone who she could expect to see in a uniform at her door, I think it might depend on the person's acting abilities.

I believe she would have been aware of people impersonating law enforcement officers, so I'm sure she would have been very cautious in this situation.

But could he have shown up with a convincing story, planned in advance? One thing I can think of but is really not very good--but what if he showed-up and knocked at her condo door, telling her that someone had called the police to report vandalism to her vehicle and asked her to accompany them to the parking lot?

Maybe too lame?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth Prevails wrote: "Because it's appears evident to my somewhat useless eyes that he was in short sleeves."

The interesting thing is that there isn't an actual look that shows short sleeves in image 1 or image 2, i.e., where you can his arm coming out of a short sleeve. If there is, someone could point it out and I'll take another look.

I think I'm about to make a fool out of myself, rd; but I'll bite because I really, really want to know what you have to say about the following.

Okay. I got these images from the site you linked yesterday. I'll just put the link in to save anyone who may have missed it from having to scroll back: http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

My notations are in the little boxes outlined in red. I'll let them speak for themselves as I await your response.

 

[fridaybaker]

I still don't think she was 'abducted' (in the traditional sense) at all. She was a big girl, and she was very smart - when I was a LEO arresting a woman like that always made me nervous, because if they want to fight, they can brutal (even with myself and 2-3 guys, we'd still come out of a fight with someone like her pretty battered and exhausted). Frankly, I would have rather taken some gang-banger into custody than fight with someone like Jennifer. I go back to the person who last saw her alive... Whomever she was with, I think she went willingly, and then was taken; I don't think it was planned either - more likely heat of the moment. The issues that stand out for me was 1. her relationship with her current boyfriend, and 2. that an ex-boyfriend was staying at her condo that weekend that she had gone on vacation. If I were a detective on this case, I would start by re-interviewing those people, and looking for inconsistencies in their stories. As for her body, she was probably dumped in one of the many lakes in that area, and eaten by alligators.

Sorry to be so late in responding to this, but I just wanted to comment on the first part -that it would be difficult to abduct a woman of Jennifer's size/smarts, etc. I agree that in some ways she would be a difficult mark; however, if taken by surprise I think any woman can be fairly easily abducted, especially by a man. If surprised by someone seeming to have a gun at the back of one's head (as in Kelsey Smith) or if surprised and overcome by sheer strength.

I can relate this: When I was 17 years old, (certainly less sophisticated than a woman of Jennifer's age, of course) I was at a party and ran into a young man who I knew somewhat, who was a couple of years younger than I. I began a conversation with him, in which time he asked to go to my car for something -can't remember what -maybe a beer, to drive him somewhere -I can't remember. He didn't seem in the least menacing, and I was engrossed in the chat, whatever it was about. At the car, he was behind me as I opened the driver's side door and suddenly pushed me into the car. Before I knew what was happening, he proceeded to get in after me and attempt to assault me. This happened so fast. He overwhelmed me with such strength it was just stunning. I was a healthy, 5'9" woman, and the sheer power of him made me seem like a tiny kitten in comparison. Thankfully, I was able to get out of the passenger side, but just by a hair. This all happened with lightening speed. It was the first time I realized that pound for pound, men pack MUCH more muscle. Much more power than women. (Unless, I suppose, a woman has been lifting weights, etc.) However, in our natural state, we just don't have the power. I'll never forget it. BIG lesson learned, without what could have been awful consequences, thank heavens.