FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #13

[flgrl017]

I actually think moving the car was smart. Leaves no trace at the scene which I think occurred in the morning at her car. I believe she may have been put in the abduction vehicle and the car was driven by a 2nd perp and eventually dumped at the apartment complex

I agree. Moving the car was smart and it caused confusion that exists to this very day.

I think it was incredibly risky to move it at noon and risk being seen. It’s a busy area. He also risked leaving forensic evidence. I think he just got very lucky.

 

[Myserty64]

The POI was very lucky indeed.
The question is, where was he coming from to drop the car at HOTG.
I'm certain Sgt Ring said at the beginning of this investigation ' this is as close to a vanishing as I've seen.' He nailed that one.

 

[flgrl017]

The POI was very lucky indeed.
The question is, where was he coming from to drop the car at HOTG.
I'm certain Sgt Ring said at the beginning of this investigation ' this is as close to a vanishing as I've seen.' He nailed that one.

They can’t even tell which way he was traveling when he pulled into hog. Where the car came from is the million dollar question and could break the case wide open.
I feel like dropping the car off in the middle of the day is like going for it on 4th and long. Everyone thinks the coach is a genius if they make it, but if they don’t, the coach is roasted on the internet and ESPN.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I agree. Moving the car was smart and it caused confusion that exists to this very day.

It was most likely necessary more than it was smart. If Jennifer drove the vehicle to the point of abduction they simply had to move it. What if it was a private residence?

She’s been off the radar ever since.

24-year-old vanishes, leaving little clues

Will a piece of surveillance video hold the key? Edie Magnus reports on the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse.

www.nbcnews.com

Quote from article: ”Sgt. Ring: The trail ended at ten o’clock—the night that she disappeared.Magnus: And she’s just off the radar after that?Sgt. Ring: Yes she is.”

Yeah. I find what Ring has to say interesting compared to what Wright has to say. Even LE disagrees, IMO.

In thread 2 of this forum they were saying her coworkers were told not to speak publicly about this.

Well, they can certainly ask people not to speak publically but I don't think they can force them to oblige. And after 17 years? What would be so important not to divulge? I'm sure it wouldn't have anything to do with one of the guys nicknamed "Chino".

Is there or was there another lead? I hope so. The person who owned the company Jennifer worked with was very powerful in the city of Orlando was my understanding. Perhaps still is. IDK

He put up the time-limited one million dollar reward for info leading to an "alive" Jennifer.

 

[Truth Prevails]

The POI was very lucky indeed.
The question is, where was he coming from to drop the car at HOTG.
I'm certain Sgt Ring said at the beginning of this investigation ' this is as close to a vanishing as I've seen.' He nailed that one.

That's another incredibly frustrating point. From Camera 2 of the video, they can't even tell whether the vehicle made a left or right turn to enter the HOTG.

Jennifer didn't vanish, though. I think there was a horrible series of "ball-dropping" events on all sides that caused Jennifer to appear as seemingly vanished.

In her life, Jennifer had a recurring nightmare that she would go missing and no one would be able to find her. Are they content to shrug her disappearance off as "fate" and move on?

I think they need to find her.

 

[Truth Prevails]

They can’t even tell which way he was traveling when he pulled into hog. Where the car came from is the million dollar question and could break the case wide open.
I feel like dropping the car off in the middle of the day is like going for it on 4th and long. Everyone thinks the coach is a genius if they make it, but if they don’t, the coach is roasted on the internet and ESPN.

It's unfortunate that no other surveillance cameras were able to pick up the movements of her Malibu. Apparently, LE gathered hours and hours of video from shops in the area.

But who really knows what they found when they finally had someone watch all that video? Or if they even did. I guess most of the cameras in those days were focused mainly on the parking lots so wouldn't catch vehicles on the street driving by. I hope the videos weren't just boxed under that assumption, though. Or disregarded because everyone but a few was "so sure" Jennifer didn't leave her condo on the evening of the 23rd.

Sorry I gave a similar answer in my post above. I should have read your comment first.

Great sports analogy, BTW.

 

[JnRyan]

Jennifer didn't vanish, though. I think there was a horrible series of "ball-dropping" events on all sides that caused Jennifer to appear as seemingly vanished.

"Dropping the ball". It started with LE's initial response to her disappearance. ("She probably had a fight with her boy friend. She'll be back.") Which is where the car being missing comes in. Girl is missing, car is missing - must be voluntary.

I don't know how much of a factor that screw-up really was at the time. If she wasn't abducted from her condo it probably had no effect outside of LE doing their due diligence to rule it out. But the workers around that afternoon? LE claimed they found all of them and spoke to them. But some construction companies are notorious for paying cash under the table and not just to undocumented aliens. What are the chances that LE came back a day or more later and only spoke to those workers the employer admitted to having employed and the off-the-books 'employees' are missed.

 

[flgrl017]

It's unfortunate that no other surveillance cameras were able to pick up the movements of her Malibu. Apparently, LE gathered hours and hours of video from shops in the area.

But who really knows what they found when they finally had someone watch all that video? Or if they even did. I guess most of the cameras in those days were focused mainly on the parking lots so wouldn't catch vehicles on the street driving by. I hope the videos weren't just boxed under that assumption, though. Or disregarded because everyone but a few was "so sure" Jennifer didn't leave her condo on the evening of the 23rd.

Sorry I gave a similar answer in my post above. I should have read your comment first.

Great sports analogy, BTW.

There was a clerk at 7-11 that claimed they saw her Monday night. The footage resembled Jennifer enough that they showed the family. The family denied it was her which doesn’t surprise me.

There is also this quote from an early news article. Something makes them think the car was on South John Young at some point. Copied from thread #1 post #160.

“Police are now releasing a timeline as to when they think Jennifer's car came through the South John Young Parkway corridor and detectives are scouring the store surveillance tapes hoping one of the cameras captured something to narrow the timeline.

Jennifer's car is still the best clue police have. A woman, who didn't want to be identified, but lives in the Huntington on the Green apartments where Jennifer's car was found last Thursday morning, remembers seeing the car a whole day earlier, Wednesday morning. She nearly hit it, in the lot.

"My kids were making noise in the car and I almost backed into it," she said. "I didn't notice that car before and, when I noticed it, I knew it wasn't somebody staying around here."

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.“

 

[flgrl017]

"Dropping the ball". It started with LE's initial response to her disappearance. ("She probably had a fight with her boy friend. She'll be back.") Which is where the car being missing comes in. Girl is missing, car is missing - must be voluntary.

I don't know how much of a factor that screw-up really was at the time. If she wasn't abducted from her condo it probably had no effect outside of LE doing their due diligence to rule it out. But the workers around that afternoon? LE claimed they found all of them and spoke to them. But some construction companies are notorious for paying cash under the table and not just to undocumented aliens. What are the chances that LE came back a day or more later and only spoke to those workers the employer admitted to having employed and the off-the-books 'employees' are missed.

I think it’s standard to wait 48-72 hours for an adult if there aren’t signs of foul play. They were just following standard procedure. I personally don’t feel like there was any evidence to be found at Mosaic regarding her disappearance. There wasn’t anything that the management or family noticed. It would be nice for le to have seen Jennifer’s condo as she left it, but by the time they got there it had already been disturbed by her family.

We have to remember that her building wasn’t under construction. It was already built. Le was able to track the maintenance workers that worked directly for Mosaic. That was the crew that Logan had the altercation with that Tuesday. What we don’t know is were there any private contractors hired by owners to work on their condo. I’m not sure about the workers building the buildings in the back of the complex, but they worked so far away from her building I don’t know if they ever came into contact with her. In the back is probably where most of the workers worked. That’s where the majority of the construction was happening.

There were also the gardeners that showed up every Tuesday at 7:30 am like “clock work“ according to Drew.

Thats another thing. IF it was the workers, why would they do it on a Tuesday since the gardeners were there?

 

[JnRyan]

I think it’s standard to wait 48-72 hours for an adult if there aren’t signs of foul play. They were just following standard procedure. I personally don’t feel like there was any evidence to be found at Mosaic regarding her disappearance. There wasn’t anything that the management or family noticed. It would be nice for le to have seen Jennifer’s condo as she left it, but by the time they got there it had already been disturbed by her family.

We have to remember that her building wasn’t under construction. It was already built. Le was able to track the maintenance workers that worked directly for Mosaic. That was the crew that Logan had the altercation with that Tuesday. What we don’t know is were there any private contractors hired by owners to work on their condo. I’m not sure about the workers building the buildings in the back of the complex, but they worked so far away from her building I don’t know if they ever came into contact with her. In the back is probably where most of the workers worked. That’s where the majority of the construction was happening.

There were also the gardeners that showed up every Tuesday at 7:30 am like “clock work“ according to Drew.

Thats another thing. IF it was the workers, why would they do it on a Tuesday since the gardeners were there?

I thought this was complex undergoing renovations and some of the units were unoccupied and undergoing construction.

From CBS's "Stolen Beauty"
Detectives discovered there was extensive remodeling going on, including some work in Jennifer’s own unit, and Jennifer had complained to her family that some of the workers were making her feel uncomfortable. Asked what she said, Joyce says, “They would stop and stare. …Leering stares is what she would say.” “Were these guys mostly day workers?” Van Sant asks. “It was large groups of crews that had traveled together. And many of them were staying right there in several of the units in the complex itself,” Wright says. In fact,of the 447 units in Jennifer’s complex, only 250 were occupied at the time, and workers were allowed to live in the empty units. But Brennan says tracing these people is “extremely difficult.” Police could not search all of the units in Jennifer’s complex because many were privately owned. They also couldn’t count on getting any reliable forensic evidence from Jennifer’s condo. “Anywhere from a half dozen to two dozen people were in the condo over the course of the first 24 hours,” Brennan says, explaining that that contaminates the crime scene.”

 

[Truth Prevails]

"Dropping the ball". It started with LE's initial response to her disappearance. ("She probably had a fight with her boy friend. She'll be back.") Which is where the car being missing comes in. Girl is missing, car is missing - must be voluntary.

I don't believe the above is descriptive of what happened. It has come out that LE had a sit-down interview with Jennifer's parents inside her condo on the evening of the 24th. IMO, a lot more would have been said than what you have quoted.

I don't know how much of a factor that screw-up really was at the time. If she wasn't abducted from her condo it probably had no effect outside of LE doing their due diligence to rule it out. But the workers around that afternoon? LE claimed they found all of them and spoke to them. But some construction companies are notorious for paying cash under the table and not just to undocumented aliens. What are the chances that LE came back a day or more later and only spoke to those workers the employer admitted to having employed and the off-the-books 'employees' are missed.

I think way too much has been made of this over the years. What evidence did LE have that an undocumented construction worker abducted Jennifer? They start with those closest to the victim and work out. It doesn't matter what stories they have been told, they have to follow the evidence.

I wonder who were the workers that were doing the "catcalling?" Would it have been the workers employed by the Mosiac whom LE duly interviewed or would it have been the "unknown" or "undocumented" workers? How would that have been known? Jennifer did not file any official complaints, IIRC.

 

[Truth Prevails]

There was a clerk at 7-11 that claimed they saw her Monday night. The footage resembled Jennifer enough that they showed the family. The family denied it was her which doesn’t surprise me.

There is also this quote from an early news article. Something makes them think the car was on South John Young at some point. Copied from thread #1 post #160.

“Police are now releasing a timeline as to when they think Jennifer's car came through the South John Young Parkway corridor and detectives are scouring the store surveillance tapes hoping one of the cameras captured something to narrow the timeline.

Jennifer's car is still the best clue police have. A woman, who didn't want to be identified, but lives in the Huntington on the Green apartments where Jennifer's car was found last Thursday morning, remembers seeing the car a whole day earlier, Wednesday morning. She nearly hit it, in the lot.

"My kids were making noise in the car and I almost backed into it," she said. "I didn't notice that car before and, when I noticed it, I knew it wasn't somebody staying around here."

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.“

An interesting time is given in your link. 18:00 hours to 21:00 hours - 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm. on the 23rd. The red dot is where 7-Eleven was. (Don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong).

Strange that they couldn't have narrowed that down considerably.

 

[flgrl017]

I thought this was complex undergoing renovations and some of the units were unoccupied and undergoing construction.

From CBS's "Stolen Beauty"
Detectives discovered there was extensive remodeling going on, including some work in Jennifer’s own unit, and Jennifer had complained to her family that some of the workers were making her feel uncomfortable. Asked what she said, Joyce says, “They would stop and stare. …Leering stares is what she would say.” “Were these guys mostly day workers?” Van Sant asks. “It was large groups of crews that had traveled together. And many of them were staying right there in several of the units in the complex itself,” Wright says. In fact,of the 447 units in Jennifer’s complex, only 250 were occupied at the time, and workers were allowed to live in the empty units. But Brennan says tracing these people is “extremely difficult.” Police could not search all of the units in Jennifer’s complex because many were privately owned. They also couldn’t count on getting any reliable forensic evidence from Jennifer’s condo. “Anywhere from a half dozen to two dozen people were in the condo over the course of the first 24 hours,” Brennan says, explaining that that contaminates the crime scene.”

The buildings that were already built were either owned by Mosaic (vacant or leased apartments) or owned by private individuals. The private owners could hire people to work on their condos. As the leases ran out, the Mosaic would convert the apartment to a condo in order to sell it. On the Search Wright states, “that the workers that were with companies that were contracted to work on the property were relatively accessible. However there are other projects going on with the complex where people were working that we had no idea what company they’re even with and they could have been just sole contractors doing work.“ There was also brand new buildings going up on the back side of the complex. It is my understanding that is where most of the activity was.
The Mosaic is a large complex with several buildings so I try to focus on what makes sense and who Jennifer would have passed if she walked from point a to point b. There are 14 units on her side of the building. There were 28 in her building but the other 14 units have to be accessed by walking across a large yard. I’ve made a diagram of how her building was laid out a few pages back. Anyways if this was committed by a worker I would mainly focus on the activity going on in the 14 units on her side of the building. The workers working there was the maintence crew that Chino and Ben were on. They were all spoken to.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I thought this was complex undergoing renovations and some of the units were unoccupied and undergoing construction.

From CBS's "Stolen Beauty"
Detectives discovered there was extensive remodeling going on, including some work in Jennifer’s own unit, and Jennifer had complained to her family that some of the workers were making her feel uncomfortable. Asked what she said, Joyce says, “They would stop and stare. …Leering stares is what she would say.” “Were these guys mostly day workers?” Van Sant asks. “It was large groups of crews that had traveled together. And many of them were staying right there in several of the units in the complex itself,” Wright says. In fact,of the 447 units in Jennifer’s complex, only 250 were occupied at the time, and workers were allowed to live in the empty units. But Brennan says tracing these people is “extremely difficult.” Police could not search all of the units in Jennifer’s complex because many were privately owned. They also couldn’t count on getting any reliable forensic evidence from Jennifer’s condo. “Anywhere from a half dozen to two dozen people were in the condo over the course of the first 24 hours,” Brennan says, explaining that that contaminates the crime scene.”

This has been walked back quite a bit by Jennifer's father in the last year or so. Since all the blog fuss over someone with the nickname "Chino".

That info was exaggerated.

 

[flgrl017]

I don't believe the above is descriptive of what happened. It has come out that LE had a sit-down interview with Jennifer's parents inside her condo on the evening of the 24th. IMO, a lot more would have been said than what you have quoted.

I think way too much has been made of this over the years. What evidence did LE have that an undocumented construction worker abducted Jennifer? They start with those closest to the victim and work out. It doesn't matter what stories they have been told, they have to follow the evidence.

I wonder who were the workers that were doing the "catcalling?" Would it have been the workers employed by the Mosiac whom LE duly interviewed or would it have been the "unknown" or "undocumented" workers? How would that have been known? Jennifer did not file any official complaints, IIRC.

Melissa Toot mentioned being stared at in the workout room. She stayed with Jennifer on NYE. The workout room is located in the clubhouse.

 

[Ozoner]

This has been walked back quite a bit by Jennifer's father in the last year or so. Since all the blog fuss over someone with the nickname "Chino".

That info was exaggerated.

To me, the person in the video in an exact match for Chino in terms of both body shape and posture. That's one heck of a coincidence if he isn't the perp in the video.

 

[flgrl017]

We can’t exclude Chino just from looking at the video, but you could literally drive around the block and find more people than you could count on your fingers and toes that look like the poi. We also know that both Chino and Ben both took polygraphs, and they both passed. The fact that Ben passed a poly too was new news to me. That makes it more likely they’re both telling the truth. Logan also stated that none of the workers he came into contact with Tuesday afternoon were dressed like the poi.

 

[Myserty64]

Have LE talked to the perpetrator? IMO it's better than fifty/fifty they have.
How far has the technology of video enhancement advanced since the last attempt on the images of the POI were made?

 

[Truth Prevails]

We can’t exclude Chino just from looking at the video, but you could literally drive around the block and find more people than you could count on your fingers and toes that look like the poi. We also know that both Chino and Ben both took polygraphs, and they both passed. The fact that Ben passed a poly too was new news to me. That makes it more likely they’re both telling the truth. Logan also stated that none of the workers he came into contact with Tuesday afternoon were dressed like the poi.

I took a screenshot of Hataway in the surveillance footage from the Tracy Ocasio case and did a side-by-side of him and the POI in Jennifer's case.

There is a good likeness there, too. IMO

Not saying it won't turn out to be one of the people nicknamed "Chino" but they are not the only ones that deserve to be looked at.

It's been 17 years and not a trace of Jennifer has been found. Not a trace. Maybe it's time we looked somewhere besides a theory that LE ran to the ground and shelved at a dead end in 2009.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Have LE talked to the perpetrator? IMO it's better than fifty/fifty they have.

True. Or the person could have been dismissed as some "helpful" soul who just appeared out of concern for Jennifer and stayed to help pass out the flyers. I believe the person would have been around and has probably stayed in touch with the family.

Jennifer had other males besides Rob that were interested in a serious relationship with her.

How far has the technology of video enhancement advanced since the last attempt on the images of the POI were made?

I believe Jennifer's father had the image enhanced again in 2021 or 2022. It made it worse in my opinion. They just smoothed out all the details.

There is not enough pixels in it to make it clearer in any way.