Found Deceased FL - Lane Graves, 2, Walt Disney World, 14 June 2016 #1

[K_Z]

This situation is not at all comparable to the Cincinnati zoo gorilla situation.

Any comparison, at this point, is deeply offensive, rude, crass, and ENTIRELY HEARTLESS, given that the child in this situation is not likely to be found alive, and they authorities HAVE NOT EVEN FOUND THE CHILD’S REMAINS YET. The horror of this situation cannot at all, IMO, be compared to the Cincinnati zoo situation (where the child was rescued alive and is completely recovered), and the suggestion that somehow “this” family gets some kind of pass for “something” because they are “rich” and at a Disney resort hotel is simply beyond offensive. Their CHILD is likely at the bottom of the lake, in pieces, from an attack by a wild alligator that was NOT in any kind of zoo or cage. STOP the posts with the “rich people” insinuations, and the snide and nasty insinuations that THIS family “should get” lots of criticism from the public.

For God’s sake, they haven’t even found the remains of the toddler yet.

I’m sickened by these posts.

Jesus, have a soul and a conscience. At least until the child’s remains are found.

 

[Lilibet]

I only see a small sign saying "no swimming". Is there more specific signage somewhere else in the resort? Because I wouldn't classify being in 1 foot of water as swimming.
I've seen signs here in certain areas where all water contact is a bad idea, and they say "no swimming or wading", or they give specific warnings about why you can't enter the water. (e.g. crocodiles, venomous jellyfish, etc)
I think tourists who may have no idea about alligator behaviour do need more specific warnings.

LE said the boy was a foot or so in to the water (from the water's edge), not in water that was a foot deep. IMO, having sand there just makes it more likely that someone will walk along the water's edge.

BBM

I too had the impression from some news reports that they were wading about a foot from shore, which might be a few inches of water at most. I don't think they were in a foot of water either...that's pretty deep for a two year old. So if I saw a sign that said "No swimming" I would assume that meant water deep enough to swim in...four or five feet. I would think wading close to shore would be OK, especially if there were no cautions about alligators. And especially at Disney World.

There are always people who will ignore very specific signs with clear pictures, with fatal results, as happens fairly often at Yosemite, for example, but I don't think this is what happened here at all. It was a tragic, horrifying accident. My heart goes out to the parents, their children, witnesses and LE.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This situation is not at all comparable to the Cincinnati zoo gorilla situation.

Any comparison, at this point, is deeply offensive, rude, crass, and ENTIRELY HEARTLESS, given that the child in this situation is not likely to be found alive, and they authorities HAVE NOT EVEN FOUND THE CHILD’S REMAINS YET. The horror of this situation cannot at all, IMO, be compared to the Cincinnati zoo situation (where the child was rescued alive and is completely recovered), and the suggestion that somehow “this” family gets some kind of pass for “something” because they are “rich” and at a Disney resort hotel is simply beyond offensive. Their CHILD is likely at the bottom of the lake, in pieces, from an attack by a wild alligator that was NOT in any kind of zoo or cage. STOP the posts with the “rich people” insinuations, and the snide and nasty insinuations that THIS family “should get” lots of criticism from the public.

For God’s sake, they haven’t even found the remains of the toddler yet.

I’m sickened by these posts.

Jesus, have a soul and a conscience. At least until the child’s remains are found.

If this was a family (imagine if this was a single mother, maybe her boyfriend is with her too for double the freakout) staying at some cheap motel, whose child was killed by a gator in a waterbody on the property, the response would be much different. It may not be comparable to the Cleveland incident (where the mom was dragged through the mud but later exonerated) but the parents would not have every excuse in the book made for them if they weren't at a Disney resort hotel. Nobody would be saying how they couldn't have known there are gators in Florida. Nobody would be making excuses for why they were in the water when it's dark out when signs say not to go in. When the story first broke, people didn't even consider the possibilty the child was in the water when it occured.

 

[Lilibet]

This situation is not at all comparable to the Cincinnati zoo gorilla situation.

Any comparison, at this point, is deeply offensive, rude, crass, and ENTIRELY HEARTLESS, given that the child in this situation is not likely to be found alive, and they authorities HAVE NOT EVEN FOUND THE CHILD’S REMAINS YET. The horror of this situation cannot at all, IMO, be compared to the Cincinnati zoo situation (where the child was rescued alive and is completely recovered), and the suggestion that somehow “this” family gets some kind of pass for “something” because they are “rich” and at a Disney resort hotel is simply beyond offensive. Their CHILD is likely at the bottom of the lake, in pieces, from an attack by a wild alligator that was NOT in any kind of zoo or cage. STOP the posts with the “rich people” insinuations, and the snide and nasty insinuations that THIS family “should get” lots of criticism from the public.

For God’s sake, they haven’t even found the remains of the toddler yet.

I’m sickened by these posts.

Jesus, have a soul and a conscience. At least until the child’s remains are found.

The thanks button was not enough! I agree completely. This is not an issue of class differences. This is a human tragedy that could happen to anyone. Compassion makes for a better world IMO.

 

[Eloise]

If this was a family (imagine if this was a single mother, maybe her boyfriend is with her too for double the freakout) staying at some cheap motel, whose child was killed by a gator in a waterbody on the property, the response would be much different. It may not be comparable to the Cleveland incident (where the mom was dragged through the mud but later exonerated) but the parents would not have every excuse in the book made for them if they weren't at a Disney resort hotel. Nobody would be saying how they couldn't have known there are gators in Florida. Nobody would be making excuses for why they were in the water when it's dark out when signs say not to go in. When the story first broke, people didn't even consider the possibilty the child was in the water when it occured.

I don't disagree that there are victims deemed "worthy" and "unworthy", often based on race, class, gender, etc. It's a well documented phenomena.
But I know I for one would feel just as heartbroken no matter what the circumstances, and I'm sure most others on WS would be the same. If you mean the media reaction, you may be right but it's hard to tell. There is no directly comparable case. I think the thing with it being Disney, based on what I've seen people saying on Twitter, is that you think Disney = Safe™. I don't know that it's directly class related. I know a few people who have been to Disney only as a very special once-in-a-lifetime trip they've saved for a long time.

 

[blue22]

If this was a family (imagine if this was a single mother, maybe her boyfriend is with her too for double the freakout) staying at some cheap motel, whose child was killed by a gator in a waterbody on the property, the response would be much different. It may not be comparable to the Cleveland incident (where the mom was dragged through the mud but later exonerated) but the parents would not have every excuse in the book made for them if they weren't at a Disney resort hotel. Nobody would be saying how they couldn't have known there are gators in Florida. Nobody would be making excuses for why they were in the water when it's dark out when signs say not to go in. When the story first broke, people didn't even consider the possibilty the child was in the water when it occured.

To be fair, I think a lot of parents could see this happening to them. I think there are very few people who truly think their child could fall into a gorilla enclosure at a zoo. Include me in that group. I honestly don't think my child could or would fall in with a gorilla. (and I don't say that in a place of judgement.) But I could put myself in this situation. I find it relatable. I don't find the situation with the gorilla relatable.

And we vacation at Disney. We are one income. Not even enough to be considered middle class in our state. We save for years.Disney does not equal wealthy.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Both deal wth wild animals and possibly negilent parents.

Before the PC, people weren't even speculating the child was in the water. The parents got the benefit of the doubt--that the gorilla snatched the child on land. We know that wasn't true now--the child was in the water--but notice how people made up the craziest possible story to absolve the parents of any responsibility whatsoever?

There are signs and people are still making excuses for them. It's like the McCanns and letting their kids stay unsupervised in a hotel room. Guarnatee if this was a family at some cheap motel somewhere, the response would be much different.

I don't think it's fair to bring up the zoo incident here. That horrifying case has a thread. How can you compare the two? The child at the zoo is alive. Regardless of the parents ability to afford this hotel, they've lost a child in the most horrible of ways! Imagine, trying to wrestle your baby out of the jaws of a gator! My Lord! They've suffered enough and I would hope that here at WS of all places, being victim friendly, there would be some compassion for them.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I think it will be very interesting to see how quickly this story disappears from media and news feeds. I am sure Disney's legal and PR teams will be burning the midnight oil tonight...


Wouldn't it be something else if, out of the the black hole that is Orlando this week, that a little boy could be found safe on the banks of a lake somewhere near? Wishful thinking... but we could use a miracle...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Disney's PR is definitely working hard right now on what they will say tomorrow.

I sort of wonder...do they have to blame the parents to take the blame away from themselves? There's no way they are going to admit that their signs weren't good enough. I think tomorrow they will talk about how it's highly emphasized that you do not enter the water. On a forum for Disney vacationers, someone who stayed at the hotel says they are told when checking in, that entering the water is strictly prohibited. Disney will either spin it as a completely freak accident or strongly suggest the parents were negilent.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think it will be very interesting to see how quickly this story disappears from media and news feeds. I am sure Disney's legal and PR teams will be burning the midnight oil tonight...


Wouldn't it be something else if, out of the the black hole that is Orlando this week, that a little boy could be found safe on the banks of a lake somewhere near? Wishful thinking... but we could use a miracle...

What if the world's media wasn't in Orlando because of the Pulse nightclub shooting?

 

[LaborDayRN]

This situation is not at all comparable to the Cincinnati zoo gorilla situation.

Any comparison, at this point, is deeply offensive, rude, crass, and ENTIRELY HEARTLESS, given that the child in this situation is not likely to be found alive, and they authorities HAVE NOT EVEN FOUND THE CHILD’S REMAINS YET. The horror of this situation cannot at all, IMO, be compared to the Cincinnati zoo situation (where the child was rescued alive and is completely recovered), and the suggestion that somehow “this” family gets some kind of pass for “something” because they are “rich” and at a Disney resort hotel is simply beyond offensive. Their CHILD is likely at the bottom of the lake, in pieces, from an attack by a wild alligator that was NOT in any kind of zoo or cage. STOP the posts with the “rich people” insinuations, and the snide and nasty insinuations that THIS family “should get” lots of criticism from the public.

For God’s sake, they haven’t even found the remains of the toddler yet.

I’m sickened by these posts.

Jesus, have a soul and a conscience. At least until the child’s remains are found.

Thank you so very much for this post. Bless this little missing angel.

 

[LaborDayRN]

What if the world's media wasn't in Orlando because of the Pulse nightclub shooting?

Than I for one would be VERY thankful that so many innocent lives hadn't been lost.

 

[LinasK]

Aside from the sign(s,) it is made clear not to swim in the water. People are given fair warning not to do this. The signs are not the only warning. There is instruction. However, I have never actually seen someone being told to get out of the water. So, they don't patrol to prevent or stop I don't think. it's kind of an honor system. It is just JMO, that guests are given enough warning and instruction...that it clears Disney of major liability if something bad happens in the water.

I mean, part of me thinks it was not good on the parent's part. But part of me totally understands why people end up still getting in the water. And a gator dragging the kid away seems like something someone from the Midwest wouldn't even consider.

For those of us who go to Disneyland rather than Disney World, fill us in on what kind of instruction? Is is a hotel orientation like on a cruise ship?

 

[LinasK]

This situation is not at all comparable to the Cincinnati zoo gorilla situation.

Any comparison, at this point, is deeply offensive, rude, crass, and ENTIRELY HEARTLESS, given that the child in this situation is not likely to be found alive, and they authorities HAVE NOT EVEN FOUND THE CHILD’S REMAINS YET. The horror of this situation cannot at all, IMO, be compared to the Cincinnati zoo situation (where the child was rescued alive and is completely recovered), and the suggestion that somehow “this” family gets some kind of pass for “something” because they are “rich” and at a Disney resort hotel is simply beyond offensive. Their CHILD is likely at the bottom of the lake, in pieces, from an attack by a wild alligator that was NOT in any kind of zoo or cage. STOP the posts with the “rich people” insinuations, and the snide and nasty insinuations that THIS family “should get” lots of criticism from the public.

For God’s sake, they haven’t even found the remains of the toddler yet.

I’m sickened by these posts.

Jesus, have a soul and a conscience. At least until the child’s remains are found.

Thank you! :clap::clap::clap: And this child didn't announce his intentions to go off with the gator and gators aren't endangered species.

 

[blue22]

For those of us who go to Disneyland rather than Disney World, fill us in on what kind of instruction? Is is a hotel orientation like on a cruise ship?

No. I was told at the front desk about the amenities, including the beach and rules. I was told whenever we went to the events near the beach. (Movies, dance parties, etc.) There are written warnings. There are signs in multiple places, both leading to the beach and at the beach. When we did the movie, we were told we could enjoy the beach, but nit get in the water.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Well I'm laying the blame fair and square at Disney. It's a tourist Mecca, for people that know nothing about gators, aimed at children. And that's the safety precautions they take? :gaah:

Same here!! The signs are small and sweet, they need to be big and scary like this!

 

[margarita25]

Poor little guy. And his family.

(Somewhat O/T, this is the 4th time in just a couple of weeks I've read about alligator related incidents, all in Florida iirc (the huge one on the golf course, the alligators with human remains Twice, now this...)

I don't think Disney will fight this (trying to blame the parents, etc.) Jmo.

 

[keyleigh]

Poor little guy. And his family.

(Somewhat O/T, this is the 4th time in just a couple of weeks I've read about alligator related incidents, all in Florida iirc (the huge one on the golf course, the alligators with human remains Twice, now this...)

I don't think Disney will fight this (trying to blame the parents, etc.) Jmo.

I hope they don't. Those poor parents just need to be enveloped in love and support.

 

[Strangeworld]

No. I was told at the front desk about the amenities, including the beach and rules. I was told whenever we went to the events near the beach. (Movies, dance parties, etc.) There are written warnings. There are signs in multiple places, both leading to the beach and at the beach. When we did the movie, we were told we could enjoy the beach, but nit get in the water.

So guests aren't warned not to use the beach, just told not to go in water? Was the child taken from the beach?

Edit: oh, I see in 1 foot of water when taken. I only know about crocodiles that we have here in Australia, so I'm not sure if the same applies for alligators, but here it would be as risky playing on a beach beside water as it would be in the water, so I'm still confused about guests been warned not to go in water. Shouldn't the beach be off limits too?

 

[gregjrichards]

What a tragedy I feel so sorry for this little boy & his parents.