Found Deceased FL - Lane Graves, 2, Walt Disney World, 14 June 2016 #1

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LaborDayRN said:
Sadly, in my line of work we deal with still births. Some of these angels have been deceased for weeks. While they may not be "ok enough" to others, to the parents they are still their baby and 99% of them still want to hold, cradle and cry with their baby. How long is up to the mother and father, sometimes it's minutes but more often it's hours. We take photos for them and often they take some of their own. We make every attempt to dress the infant for the photos. It helps them grieve and say goodbye. I truly hope this was allowed for this family.
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While I agree with you, a stillborn is different than a child that had been attacked by a gator & then underwater for many hours.

A funeral director can "restore" the child as much as possible for the family if the ME suggested to wait for viewing. Someone had to ID him so I'm sure it was discussed then. So sad.
 
monster12 said:
I am glad they found his body for peace of mind, however, sad ending to a sad week in Orlando. I just don't understand how people don't think alligators would be in Florida. I feel this is something you learn as a part of geography in school....what animals live in the desert, Everglades, plains, etc. It's disturbing and sad to think people have to be told and warned continuously about dangers. I'm not referring to just this incident but unfortunately they don't listen to the warnings anyways. People will continue to go round and round placing blame but sometimes things are just freak accidents. I could say they shouldn't have been in the water (depending on the story you've heard) or why the child was near the water that late at night. But either way that means nothing now. Hopefully everyone just becomes more aware of their surroundings no matter the situation or location. [emoji20]


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How could anyone guess what is a danger somewhere else? Many people choose all-inclusive resorts over staying in a VRBO home in a foreign location. They figure everything is under control.

People choose Disney over going to real locations because they feel it is a totally safe, well run place. They do not think they are taking a zip line trhough the jungles of Central America or a safari in Africa where caution would be mandatory to save your life.
 
This is from a cnn article:

Resort liability in Florida for an alligator attack will depend on the specific facts -- not only the facts of the tragedy itself, but what the resort did and knew in advance about the alligators, and the likelihood of the harm.


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becciboo81 said:
I'm a little rusty but there is a term in law that refers to whether they could have expected this could happen. Disney knew there were gators or a high chance of there being gators there. Nebraska folk probably didn't at all. I'm from cali and I would have never ever thought of that. I don't know their feeding behavior, I don't know how prevalent they are around there. It's extremely shocking to me. I would have never guessed that there was a chance a gator would grab my baby on that beach, because of my ignorance of gators and their behaviors and also because it's a private beach from what I understand, for the resort. I would have assumed Disney did some magic and somehow made it inhospitable to gators. I'm positive that sounds crazy to Florida folk but I don't get out of this state much.

It's one thing to say no swimming. But they did leave out a very very important part in that sign. And if they did so because it sounded "too scary" then they are gonna have to dig deep imo.

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I am from Nebraska. And while I know there are alligators in Florida....that's pretty much all I know about them. When I've been at WDW, alligators don't cross my mind at all.

Where I come from, we don't think twice about dipping our toes in a lake, even at night.

Someone else mentioned "common sense."
For me, it's definitely not "common sense" to know tons of stuff about alligators. Just like people from Florida likely don't have "common sense" about other regional things....like driving in snow/ice, for example.

LinasK said:
The dangerous rides I was referring to were the two deaths I know have occurred at Disneyland. One of those rides was taken out.
As far as the measles outbreak- Disney didn't have to publicize it, it was all over the news. Interestingly I went there a few months later, and although I was very conscious of it having happened, but there were no indications on Disney's part. We've had all our vaccinations. Were there any lawsuits from it? Don't know, didn't follow.
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Which ride are you referring to that was taken out? It's actually a bit shocking how many deaths have occurred because of attractions at Disneyland. Many of the rides that people died on or because of are still in operation today.
 
human said:
How could anyone guess what is a danger somewhere else? Many people choose all-inclusive resorts over staying in a VRBO home in a foreign location. They figure everything is under control.

People choose Disney over going to real locations because they feel it is a totally safe, well run place. They do not think they are taking a zip line trhough the jungles of Central America or a safari in Africa where caution would be mandatory to save your life.
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It shouldn't be a guess. If you are traveling somewhere, you don't take the time to read about the city or location? Animals and wildlife aren't a secret. Especially if traveling with children, I would assume one would be looking up things to do and information about the area. I'm not saying do extensive research as alligators being in Florida does not take extensive searching to figure out. Whether or not you are aware of them being in your exact location, the possibility is there due to the environment and location. Just as the potential dangers of boating, skiing, flying, hiking, amusement parks....whatever activity you partake in during vacation. But maybe that's just me being aware of basic geography. My apologies and thoughts go to the family regardless of my opinions of this situation in a general sense.


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monster12 said:
It shouldn't be a guess. If you are traveling somewhere, you don't take the time to read about the city or location? Animals and wildlife aren't a secret. Especially if traveling with children, I would assume one would be looking up things to do and information about the area. I'm not saying do extensive research as alligators being in Florida does not take extensive searching to figure out. Whether or not you are aware of them being in your exact location, the possibility is there due to the environment and location. Just as the potential dangers of boating, skiing, flying, hiking, amusement parks....whatever activity you partake in during vacation. But maybe that's just me being aware of basic geography. My apologies and thoughts go to the family regardless of my opinions of this situation in a general sense.


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I might if I was going on a backpacking trip or something but no, I don't plan a trip to Disneyland and research wildlife in Anaheim. You don't think you're having a case of hindsight 20/20 here?

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monster12 said:
It shouldn't be a guess. If you are traveling somewhere, you don't take the time to read about the city or location? Animals and wildlife aren't a secret. Especially if traveling with children, I would assume one would be looking up things to do and information about the area. I'm not saying do extensive research as alligators being in Florida does not take extensive searching to figure out. Whether or not you are aware of them being in your exact location, the possibility is there due to the environment and location. Just as the potential dangers of boating, skiing, flying, hiking, amusement parks....whatever activity you partake in during vacation. But maybe that's just me being aware of basic geography. My apologies and thoughts go to the family regardless of my opinions of this situation in a general sense.


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They were going to Disney World. I don't think you need research anything to go to Disney.
 
AmyPond said:
I am from Nebraska. And while I know there are alligators in Florida....that's pretty much all I know about them. When I've been at WDW, alligators don't cross my mind at all.

Where I come from, we don't think twice about dipping our toes in a lake, even at night.

Someone else mentioned "common sense."
For me, it's definitely not "common sense" to know tons of stuff about alligators. Just like people from Florida likely don't have "common sense" about other regional things....like driving in snow/ice, for example.



Which ride are you referring to that was taken out? It's actually a bit shocking how many deaths have occurred because of attractions at Disneyland. Many of the rides that people died on or because of are still in operation today.
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The Carousel of Progress. It was a moving ride that rotated around the building. Someone wasn't seated and got crushed between the moving walls. The building still exists, but now it houses science displays, the Honda Robot, Iron Man suits, and such...
 
Sonya610 said:
Great video -- Judge Napolitano explains why Disney is liable. If you invite someone onto your property for business/profit, you are obligated to warn them of danger OR prevent danger.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/49433829...-alligator-attack/?intcmp=hpbt3#sp=show-clips
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Oh My Word!!!!! According to the man/lawyer/adviser/speaker, if this were to go to court and based on an insurance company policy the monies worth of a child would be very little because of being 2yrs old compared to the worth value of an adult.

The parents would be a total issue.

I just can't imagine trying to put money on a child because of the age, insurance companies.....well I am speechless. 😭😭😭

JMO
 
I'm from Nebraska as well and can tell you that from the pictures I've seen, I can't say I wouldn't have let my kids walk down the beach at the waters edge at 9:30. Sure, I know there are alligators in Florida but I'm not sure I would see a body of water and immediately assume there was a high likelihood there were alligators in there.

I've played this scenario over and over in my head today and put myself in these parents shoes and I honestly feel ill every time I think about it. Bless their hearts.

I'm about 45 minutes from Elkhorn where they are from and the rally of support from people already is overwhelming. The Graves are going to have an ENORMOUS outpouring of love and support when they get home. Absolutely one of the best things about the state of Nebraska!


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LLC said:
While I agree with you, a stillborn is different than a child that had been attacked by a gator & then underwater for many hours.

A funeral director can "restore" the child as much as possible for the family if the ME suggested to wait for viewing. Someone had to ID him so I'm sure it was discussed then. So sad.
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I agree, the injuries sustained by an alligator are horrific. That being said, the condition of some of the little angels I've seen that have physical anomalies or have started the decomp process are also horrific. That has rarely in my experience been a deterrent to a parent wishing to hold their little one for the last time to say goodbye. Perhaps this family didn't want that time, and that should be honored. However if they did I hope those wishes were honored as well.

What a heartbreaking situation. :rose:
 
GeeEm said:
Oh My Word!!!!! According to the man/lawyer/adviser/speaker, if this were to go to court and based on an insurance company policy the monies worth of a child would be very little because of being 2yrs old compared to the worth value of an adult.

The parents would be a total issue.

I just can't imagine trying to put money on a child because of the age, insurance companies.....well I am speechless. ������

JMO
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He is a judge. And if there is no way to estimate the worth of the life of a child, because it is priceless, then don't sue.

Grieve and keep it private, since a loss of that magnitude can't be measured in dollars.

Problem solved.
 
FWIW
Child attacked by gator at Disney World 30 years ago


A New Hampshire man said an alligator attack on a toddler in Florida has led him to relive the pain of his own attack at Walt Disney World 30 years before.
...
Santamaria said he and his siblings were playing at the lake's edge in the campground, feeding the ducks, when a seven foot female alligator suddenly launched out of the water.
Santamaria said his sister grabbed his arms, and his brother began hitting the gator while he kicked with his free leg.
...
Santamaria was hospitalized for a week after doctors pulled an alligator tooth from inside his thigh that was pressing against his femoral artery.
...
Santamaria said that sadness turned to anger when he heard authorities state during a news conference on Wednesday that such a tragedy had never happened before at Disney.
"This is not something that was the first time it happened," Santamaria said. "It happened to me, 30 years ago, and it was disheartening to hear that."
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according to the article, Paul Santamaria was 8 years old when he was attacked by an alligator at Fort Wilderness Campground in 1986 for a Disney vacation.

More @ Link: http://www.fox23.com/news/trending-...ago/345437420?ecmp=kokitv_social_facebook_sfp
I realize 1986 was a long time ago, but this is very shocking to me, still, to see that an alligator has attacked a child at Disney prior to this, considering all the reports stating this was the first time something like this has happened. Clearly there is a big difference, in that this recent attack resulted in a fatality, but I am still quite surprised, & wonder how many others may come forward in the near future who have had similar experiences.
Imo
bbm
 
If I was going to Disney, I would research where to stay, which attractions I would like to see , what other activities there are, the cost of meals.
 
[h=1]First Photo Released of Toddler Snatched by Alligator in Disney World Tragedy
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Authorities – along with a priest – delivered the tragic news to the family upon the discovery of the body.
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"Of course, the family was distraught, but also somewhat relieved that we were able to find their son with his body intact and that his body was located so they can come to grips with what happened," said Demings, who added "it was a tough message to deliver to them to let them know that their child was dead."
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Disney released a statement shortly after the body was recovered. "There are no words to convey the profound sorrow we feel for the family and their unimaginable loss," George A. Kalogridis, president of Walt Disney World Resort said in the statement. "We are devastated and heartbroken by this tragic accident and are doing what we can to help them during this difficult time."
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Disney CEO Bob Iger also released a statement on Wednesday evening. "As a parent and a grandparent, my heart goes out to the Graves family during this time of devastating loss," Iger said in a statement, according to Gant News. "My thoughts and prayers are with them, and I know everyone at Disney joins me in offering our deepest sympathies."
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More @ link: http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20981907_21013005,00.html
 
I visited Disney World every year as a child until the age of around 14. My grandparents lived there, so we stayed with them, not at a resort. I recall vividly watching the alligators on the banks of the river near my grandparents' house. I was told they were dangerous and to stay away/not swim in the river. So I am very aware that there are alligators in/around Orlando. Despite all that...I NEVER would have thought to fear gators in a resort lagoon inside WDW. Orlando is very "citified" and there is an illusion, imo, that you are protected from dangerous wildlife within the park. I cannot blame these parents one bit for having no fear/knowledge of the danger. They have my heartfelt sympathy for their loss. They will always have to endure the pain of the memory of their son's death. Let's not magnify that by placing blame on them. I'm sure they blame themselves enough already.
 
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