Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #11

[Chimera]

Unreal that a mom who’s been shown proof of her child being SA by your partner would be concerned about legal representation for the abuser. Sickening.

Agreed, and it's so very sad and sickening.

Still waiting for the 'other shoe to drop'.
Still do not believe this happened in a vacuum, with only the perp and victim having knowledge of the atrocities.
It'd be nearly impossible for Madeline's egg donor to be completely oblivious.
Imo.
Omo.

 

[Pruddennce]

I also use “just kidding” as “my bad” or “excuse me, I was mistaken”. I think it’s a generational thing (I’m a millennial for context).

but in her audio interview(s) she also used the term 'sorry' when correcting herself.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

gosh SS and JS lie so much..... JS claims she saw it on Madeline's night stand/bureau when she was 'putting things away'. (JS was actually awake and moving around? /s) SS states Madeline left it in 'her room' when she was grabbing her sweatshirt or shoes. of course a lie. unless I missed it, detectives didnt ask SS if Madeline took her phone with her up to room #4. because they do know it was put on a charger somewhere that nite.

it does not appear Madeline had her phone with her at her party because there were no steps coming in the house, but then 9 steps at 10pm and then again later (health app stair climb tracked), then put on the charger. in the morning, it was then removed from the charger and TURNED OFF. but its turned back on at 10:55am (when JS was supposedly not home yet).

page 66-67

https://www.scribd.com/document/761306492/24001896-Stephen-Sterns-Documents-released-by-Kissimmee-PD-regarding-the-investigation-into-Madeline-Sotos-murder

So very true and sad yet again Pruddence^^….. and I am again reminded that MS IIUC didn’t even have her own room. So IMO what again is SS ‘trying to sell’ for a narrative?

Much IMO seems so confusing to sort because of the ‘aligned’, conflicting, obscure, and bewildering responses from both SS and JS. One can only hope that authorities have a good idea of what transpired? And that they have other evidence against any other individuals? And they are carefully contemplating next actions. Maybe all the silence from authorities is for good reason. Analogous to the ‘calm often before a storm’? And perhaps much won’t be known until the cases against SS go to trial? MOO

 

[AnyNameIWish]

I also use “just kidding” as “my bad” or “excuse me, I was mistaken”. I think it’s a generational thing (I’m a millennial for context).

I hear ya and a lot of people do this but..... speaking this colloquially/ casually/ vaguely when speaking to law enforcement officers about a missing teenage child seems.... again, incongruous.

Jenn's chit chat and her chuckling about how Maddie didn't like SS's "hooptie".... there's just so much.

I soooooo want the other shoe to drop.

 

[scapa]

I dont know if there is any correlation between intelligence and response under stress. ( maybe there is?) but in an emergency ( if thats what were talking about) there's this:
In his 1995 book “Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ,” psychologist Daniel Goleman named this emotional overreaction to stress “amygdala hijack.” The amygdala hijack occurs when your amygdala responds to stress and disables your frontal lobes. That activates the fight-or-flight response and disables rational, reasoned responses. In other words, the amygdala “hijacks” control of your brain and your responses.

Lots to think about here and something like "amygdala hijack" may indeed be relevant to JS in the interview materials available.

I suppose I'm less interested at this point in what she said in those interviews and how she said it than in the established pattern of facilitating "co-sleeping" with, then allowing and even sending MS to sleep with SS alone for what seems to have been years.

It's a bit like the hot-car death in AZ -- the backdrop pattern suggests a level of complicity with at least the risky behaviour that contributed to a fatal outcome, if not directly contributing to it, with the additional factor in MS's case of a long, profoundly disturbing history of SA that seems not to have registered with JS (or, if it did, bothered her overly).

For me, this a classic instance of paying attention to what was done and largely discounting what was said, especially in the aftermath. But that's not to discount the forensic interest in JS and the now well-documented oddities and divergence of her actions from her descriptions.

 

[nclady1983]

Lots to think about here and something like "amygdala hijack" may indeed be relevant to JS in the interview materials available.

I suppose I'm less interested at this point in what she said in those interviews and how she said it than in the established pattern of facilitating "co-sleeping" with, then allowing and even sending MS to sleep with SS alone for what seems to have been years.

It's a bit like the hot-car death in AZ -- the backdrop pattern suggests a level of complicity with at least the risky behaviour that contributed to a fatal outcome, if not directly contributing to it, with the additional factor in MS's case of a long, profoundly disturbing history of SA that seems not to have registered with JS (or, if it did, bothered her overly).

For me, this a classic instance of paying attention to what was done and largely discounting what was said, especially in the aftermath. But that's not to discount the forensic interest in JS and the now well-documented oddities and divergence of her actions from her descriptions.

Do you think this is something prosecutable, or would it fall into a sub-category of "plausible deniability"?

Incidentally, very eloquent post; I love reading the work of those who have true skill!!

 

[Pruddennce]

Agreed, and it's so very sad and sickening.

Still waiting for the 'other shoe to drop'.
Still do not believe this happened in a vacuum, with only the perp and victim having knowledge of the atrocities.
It'd be nearly impossible for Madeline's egg donor to be completely oblivious.
Imo.
Omo.

I would guess (as you said) she took it up with her, she was planning on getting up extra early for their special McDonalds breakfast right? even if that was a lie, she did have to get up for school. Surely she wasnt going to depend on SS who says himself he is not a morning person.

the mystery to me is: was Madeline awake at 10pm, handling the phone which logged 9 steps? was it actually Madeline who walked up those steps with the phone?

I hear ya and a lot of people do this but..... speaking this colloquially/ casually/ vaguely when speaking to law enforcement officers about a missing teenage child seems.... again, incongruous.

Jenn's chit chat and her chuckling about how Maddie didn't like SS's "hooptie".... there's just so much.

I soooooo want the other shoe to drop.

that entire LE car ride chatter was way disturbing concerning JS, IMO. her responses and casual posture, joking, laughing....it was incredulous.....and then there are her attempts at keeping the formulated narrative in place...that failed IMO. prior interview she couldnt remember if SS arrived on saturday or sunday. likewise for him. during this ride with LE, when asked if he was at the party, she says he 'was on his way from Northport when the party was happening'. the detective then confirms with her, so he arrived on Sunday nite? her answer: YEAH and goes on to say he got there about 10 minutes after Madeline was dropped off at home.

I know I am repeating, but what was it about the day of his arrival somehow a sticky issue with both of them, that would have JS lie initially she couldnt remember and he was hesitant to say as well?????

although there are differing reasons between them as to why he was showing up, IT WAS PLANNED ahead of time. according to JS, she confirmed that he was going to be there for the week instead of a few days.

Im curious as to her and SS's texts and/or log of calls exchanged leading up to his arrival on sunday and for at least going back a few months. their communications, which we have not seen, would certainly provide alot more insight that IMO would have included references to Madeline, her birthday and perhaps much much more as it relates to Madeline.

 

[Mack the Knife]

I'd like to politely request that people re-emphasize the need to include sources for facts. I think some things are getting misremembered or misinterpreted.

The following quotes were snipped and bolded by me for focus:

JS and SS were exchanging texts at 11:39pm and other texts were mentioned but not shown, one being that SS gave her an additional 'dose' when it was not necessary. IMO, Madeline's phone movement was not her handling it that nite. IMO, he needed to see any activity that might come through... in the morning, he took her phone off the charger at 7:05am and turned it off at 7:16am. and handled it again at 10:55am.

It may be the case that SS gave MS an extra dose of medication that night, but the reports do not specify.
From page 68 of Kissimmee reports: "There were several other messages between her and Stephan regarding Madeline sleeping in the same room together. There was also text messages between Stephan and Jennifer claiming Stephan gave Madeline an extra dose of her medication when it was not necessary." This section refers generally to the cell data download from JS's phone, and doesn't specify a date for these other text messages.

I find it really difficult to believe she was shocked and horrified because after she learned SS had CSAM of him and Maddie on his phone, JS called SS's dad and said he needed a lawyer.

AND she continued to stick by SS.

My daughter has been SA for 2 years and there are photos to prove it.
I'm livid.
I better call the abuser's father and tell him to get a lawyer for hurting my daughter.

Not in the real world.
Moo.

JS is alleged to have texted SS's father (CS), not called him. It's important to note that this is an allegation from CS, and the documents so far have not corroborated this (ie. LE has JS's cell data, but didn't include in the public records any mention of texts with CS, and didn't generally comment on the veracity of this claim). I transcribed a direct quote from CS in this comment.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

JS is alleged to have texted SS's father (CS), not called him. It's important to note that this is an allegation from CS, and the documents so far have not corroborated this (ie. LE has JS's cell data, but didn't include in the public records any mention of texts with CS, and didn't generally comment on the veracity of this claim). I transcribed a direct quote from CS in this comment.

Snipped for focus

Thank you for the correction, Mack.

I don't see why CS would lie about the text.

 

[Pruddennce]

I'd like to politely request that people re-emphasize the need to include sources for facts. I think some things are getting misremembered or misinterpreted.

The following quotes were snipped and bolded by me for focus:

It may be the case that SS gave MS an extra dose of medication that night, but the reports do not specify.
From page 68 of Kissimmee reports: "There were several other messages between her and Stephan regarding Madeline sleeping in the same room together. There was also text messages between Stephan and Jennifer claiming Stephan gave Madeline an extra dose of her medication when it was not necessary." This section refers generally to the cell data download from JS's phone, and doesn't specify a date for these other text messages.


JS is alleged to have texted SS's father (CS), not called him. It's important to note that this is an allegation from CS, and the documents so far have not corroborated this (ie. LE has JS's cell data, but didn't include in the public records any mention of texts with CS, and didn't generally comment on the veracity of this claim). I transcribed a direct quote from CS in this comment.

thank you for the reminder Mack. and yes, the date is not referenced concerning the extra dose. but its interesting it was included in the narrative...LE is attempting to compile information concerning her 'missing status' and the relevancy of such an exchange would be of significance to the current situation. but if it was an historical exchange, it still remains quite relevant as to Madeline's wellbeing and IMO relates to the SA and methods to 'control' her physically...which of course could have happened that nite. wonder if we will ever know the results of the tox?

 

[Gemmie]

it does not appear Madeline had her phone with her at her party because there were no steps coming in the house, but then 9 steps at 10pm and then again later (health app stair climb tracked), then put on the charger. in the morning, it was then removed from the charger and TURNED OFF. but its turned back on at 10:55am (when JS was supposedly not home yet).

page 66-67

https://www.scribd.com/document/761306492/24001896-Stephen-Sterns-Documents-released-by-Kissimmee-PD-regarding-the-investigation-into-Madeline-Sotos-murder

What I find interesting about the steps is this:

• 02/25/2024 at 2319 hours - 31 steps taken and 1 floor climbed, which matched the time when Jennifer sent Madeline and Stephan upstairs to go to sleep.
• 02/26/2024 at 0705 hours - 113 steps
• 02/26/2024 at 0715 hours- 50 step

We know SS was dumping her stuff at 0735, so 30 min after the last 50 steps. But if the first bullet calls out that 1 floor was climbed, wouldn't it also call out that 1 floor was descended the next morning? Since it doesn't, and I'd think it would, 163 steps in the upper floor is a LOT of steps (basically he'd only have access to room #4, the hall, and the bathroom, not a whole lot of space there IMO). What was he doing? Pacing?

To give you an idea what that many steps "looks like" I just now counted my steps from the room I'm in (den/spare bedroom), into and thru my master bedroom to reach the toilet, turned around and left both rooms, walked down the end of the hall (walking past the room I started in), turned around and walked back down the hall back to the room I started from and sat back down. It was only 46 steps. He walked 3.5 times that much.

Again, he'd only have access to room #4, the hall and the bathroom. I added 1 room to my experiment, he'd have 1 less room.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

 

[Mack the Knife]

Snipped for focus

Thank you for the correction, Mack.

I don't see why CS would lie about the text.

I wouldn’t suspect him of outright lying about a text that doesn’t exist, but it is my opinion that the Sterns parents have been trying to craft a narrative and influence perceptions when it comes to JS and SS. There’s a world of difference, IMO, between ‘they’ve found something on Stephan, get him a lawyer now’ and ‘they have proof of him abusing my daughter, he better hope you get him a good lawyer’ or if they were already texting each other back and forth since CS got separated from them earlier, even something like 'I haven't seen SS, they must still be in there with him, maybe he needs a lawyer.' CS is a biased party, so I don't want to rely on his interpretation or characterizations when something more objective exists.

thank you for the reminder Mack. and yes, the date is not referenced concerning the extra dose. but its interesting it was included in the narrative...LE is attempting to compile information concerning her 'missing status' and the relevancy of such an exchange would be of significance to the current situation. but if it was an historical exchange, it still remains quite relevant as to Madeline's wellbeing and IMO relates to the SA and methods to 'control' her physically...which of course could have happened that nite. wonder if we will ever know the results of the tox?

I would guess that even if we find out toxicity details, it would be very difficult to determine if/that an extra dose of a regularly taken medication was given. I'm not familiar with the medications involved though.

 

[kae27]

What I find interesting about the steps is this:

• 02/25/2024 at 2319 hours - 31 steps taken and 1 floor climbed, which matched the time when Jennifer sent Madeline and Stephan upstairs to go to sleep.
• 02/26/2024 at 0705 hours - 113 steps
• 02/26/2024 at 0715 hours- 50 step

We know SS was dumping her stuff at 0735, so 30 min after the last 50 steps. But if the first bullet calls out that 1 floor was climbed, wouldn't it also call out that 1 floor was descended the next morning? Since it doesn't, and I'd think it would, 163 steps in the upper floor is a LOT of steps (basically he'd only have access to room #4, the hall, and the bathroom, not a whole lot of space there IMO). What was he doing? Pacing?

To give you an idea what that many steps "looks like" I just now counted my steps from the room I'm in (den/spare bedroom), into and thru my master bedroom to reach the toilet, turned around and left both rooms, walked down the end of the hall (walking past the room I started in), turned around and walked back down the hall back to the room I started from and sat back down. It was only 46 steps. He walked 3.5 times that much.

Again, he'd only have access to room #4, the hall and the bathroom. I added 1 room to my experiment, he'd have 1 less room.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

My Apple Health app only shows floors climbed, not descended. But all of your musings are really perceptive and interesting. Thanks for the post.

 

[Gemmie]

My Apple Health app only shows floors climbed, not descended. But all of your musings are really perceptive and interesting. Thanks for the post.

My thanks go to YOU for letting me (us) know that it doesn't tell you if you descended floors.

 

[Pruddennce]

What I find interesting about the steps is this:

• 02/25/2024 at 2319 hours - 31 steps taken and 1 floor climbed, which matched the time when Jennifer sent Madeline and Stephan upstairs to go to sleep.
• 02/26/2024 at 0705 hours - 113 steps
• 02/26/2024 at 0715 hours- 50 step

We know SS was dumping her stuff at 0735, so 30 min after the last 50 steps. But if the first bullet calls out that 1 floor was climbed, wouldn't it also call out that 1 floor was descended the next morning? Since it doesn't, and I'd think it would, 163 steps in the upper floor is a LOT of steps (basically he'd only have access to room #4, the hall, and the bathroom, not a whole lot of space there IMO). What was he doing? Pacing?

To give you an idea what that many steps "looks like" I just now counted my steps from the room I'm in (den/spare bedroom), into and thru my master bedroom to reach the toilet, turned around and left both rooms, walked down the end of the hall (walking past the room I started in), turned around and walked back down the hall back to the room I started from and sat back down. It was only 46 steps. He walked 3.5 times that much.

Again, he'd only have access to room #4, the hall and the bathroom. I added 1 room to my experiment, he'd have 1 less room.

Things that make you go hmmmm....

I have a pedometer app, step counter. its set up based on my gender, height and weight to measure stride length for distance and speed, calories etc....but does not differentiate between the type of steps as in stair climbing.

Im sure LE had a techie familiar with the app on Madeline's phone and perhaps others here in the forum. Needing to know more about that app, could the stair count have other info specific to Madeline's stride/movement going up stairs associated with her personal data to determine that specific movement was indeed comparable to Madeline's body? (if that makes sense)

its maddening that nothing can be validated with anyone regarding Madeline's movements after she walked into her home around 8:30pm and closed the door.

when and how did he move her body to the car? more importantly, when was she murdered?

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Snipped for focus

Thank you for the correction, Mack.

I don't see why CS would lie about the text.

RBBM
I think it is pretty apparent WHY he would lie about it. To blame MS and take the spotlight off of his son.
Or maybe he muddled his words and meant 'text' but said 'call. ', just like JS could have muddled her words and said saw instead of heard.
If a certain level of scrutiny is used for one person, why not the other?
I mean, SS freind's made suggestion to GH that his mother paid someone off to turn a blind eye to CA on the computer, they have enabled him to go about doing what he has done by funding him and turning a blind eye. For the sake of no stone unturned, maybe LE should be looking closer at his parents to see if they knew what was going on before MS was killed.
JMO
ETA: For all we know, maybe SS DID go to their house the night they said he didn't, maybe his mother let him in, gave him soup and told him he was a brave little soilder, why did CS say he found the hard drive and watch in the storage unit, when it was disclosed that SS NEVER went to the storage unit, so how did they get in the storage unit? Why was his mother screaming outside the house for MS?
All these things have been brushed over, yet JS waiting around to pick MS up is 'suspicious'?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

RBBM
I think it is pretty apparent WHY he would lie about it. To blame MS and take the spotlight off of his son.
Or maybe he muddled his words and meant 'text' but said 'call. ', just like JS could have muddled her words and said saw instead of heard.
If a certain level of scrutiny is used for one person, why not the other?
I mean, SS freind's made suggestion to GH that his mother paid someone off to turn a blind eye to CA on the computer, they have enabled him to go about doing what he has done by funding him and turning a blind eye. For the sake of no stone unturned, maybe LE should be looking closer at his parents to see if they knew what was going on before MS was killed.
JMO

I accept Mack's correction that it was a text instead of a call. That was my misremembering. Either way, I still don't see why CS would lie about receiving it, especially if it was a text. LE can retrieve things from phones, as SS well knows.

I also don't think it would do anything to take the spotlight off their son. They'd already found all the CSAM with Maddie so I don't see how lying that JS texted CS about getting him a lawyer would do anything toward taking the spotlight off him.

SS received less scrutiny than JS at this particular time--Madeline's body had not been found yet--because the CSAM was found on his phone, not hers.

I agree that SS's parents enabled him and it's completely possible that they knew about the CSAM.

 

[ttjo]

Do you think this is something prosecutable, or would it fall into a sub-category of "plausible deniability"?

Incidentally, very eloquent post; I love reading the work of those who have true skill!!

IDK about plausible deniability plausible deniability
sort of like if the owner of a massage parlour claims he doesnt know if there is any more going on behind those doors. (Its like ya know...)
or
what about Mores: scroll down and it will give you a definition 1.3. Social Norms: Folkways, Mores, Taboo, and Laws – SOU-CCJ230 Introduction to the American Criminal Justice System
Like we just know by social "mores" that we dont usually wear hot pink to a funeral and we dont let our daughters sleep with our ex boyfriends who are in town for a visit. if nothing else, just boundaries alone, why try to foster that connection ?
None of it makes sense, they broke up cause he was messy, ( allegedly according to jenn) then he went back home because he was offered a job, but it fell through, dad tells a different version of why it didnt work out, and why he came back home. Now in the back of that police car jenn says they are trying to get him back there ( hence reapply for Disney) it's not like much has changed since he left. still messy , still unemployed. She also said ( same police car chatter) when he went back home they talked every day and all day sometimes on FaceTime? Talk about mixed messages. when I hear about the face time, makes me wonder if it was to make sure maddi never let the cat out of the bag. SS always present, on a screen , even if not talking.

 

[ttjo]

I'd like to politely request that people re-emphasize the need to include sources for facts. I think some things are getting misremembered or misinterpreted.

The following quotes were snipped and bolded by me for focus:

It may be the case that SS gave MS an extra dose of medication that night, but the reports do not specify.
From page 68 of Kissimmee reports: "There were several other messages between her and Stephan regarding Madeline sleeping in the same room together. There was also text messages between Stephan and Jennifer claiming Stephan gave Madeline an extra dose of her medicine

it would be good to have the context. They may not have specified when but given that hes been away for 2 months and was only there one night before she died,? if it was a newer message it could mean that jenn was worried because it happened in the past? but she hasn't alluded to that at all.
I also dont like the " gave her another med when it wasnt necessary" doesnt tell you if it means ? by accident? or intentionally.

 

[Pruddennce]

it would be good to have the context. They may not have specified when but given that hes been away for 2 months and was only there one night before she died,? if it was a newer message it could mean that jenn was worried because it happened in the past? but she hasn't alluded to that at all.
I also dont like the " gave her another med when it wasnt necessary" doesnt tell you if it means ? by accident? or intentionally.

yes. I am so curious about their texts and call history and of course Madeline's tox report.