Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #4

[SleutherGirl]

But as he will most likely be tried for murder and the murder being that of a child, he's eligible for the death penalty either way, is he not?

Edit: OH wait, now I see that the victim has to be under twelve. My bad.

Second edit: Do we think HE knew that?

 

[ttjo]

Maybe wait for ( any lawyers here ) to confirm this but maybe this will help.
I found this: I got it from here ( its the very last line on the first page). https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1297/Analyses/h1297z.CRJ.PDF

 

[BeeGirl]

Donna's Law is a new law in Florida that eliminates the statute of limitations for sex crimes committed against minors. It applies to crimes committed on or after July 1, 2020

So July 1, 2020 is the relevant date here.

Good find. Considering that was passed about a year after he started abusing her and continued for several more years, there are currently 20 total battery type (not CSAM) charges and 5 were 2019 and 15 of those were after 2022. So, yeah, they could use that for a lot of the dates.* [Edit Below.]

I personally do not think the death penalty really matters very much for the set of charges we’ve seen so far. Sadly, I think suspect the details we will learn in the coming months will be even worse and remove any doubt of the death penalty.

*Edited to add: I did not know it did not go into effect until 2023 (and for that year there are five charges all in June and that’s the last date/year so far). Second paragraph still applies.

 

[BeeGirl]

Maybe if there are any lawyers here they can chime in but it should be more like this: View attachment 490558Taken from here Florida Statute Section 782.04(1)(a) - Degrees of Homicide in Florida.

This is called the Felony Murder Rule.

 

[Universecalling]

View attachment 490559
please help me understand this…
Since a few of us were discussing this earlier-if he could be charged for crimes predating the law that went into affect 10/1/23.
Maddie was 12, not under 12 when the law went into affect. Under “plea” column C is for capital.
Am I then understanding correctly that Donna’s law applies here?
Those 8 counts (crimes) carrying DP all happened before the bill went live.
@SleutherGirl
@IzzyBlanche

Quoting myself because I’d really appreciate someone helping me understand. Thank you!!

 

[PawneeDew]

Yes, you absolutely can. Standby, I will pull the statute. I posted both on the first thread.

View attachment 490501

2020 Bill Summaries - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

View attachment 490502

2023 Bill Summaries - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

Edited to add: Bill summaries

Who is Donna? (Donna's law) She is who the bill is named for...

 

[kae27]

Yes, I understand that. There is no statute of limitations for sex crimes committed against minors on or after July 1, 2020.

I don't, however, think that means any sex crimes against minors committed after July 1, 2020, but before the new law went into effect October 1, 2023, can be prosecuted as capital crimes.

There are two separate issues here in my mind.

Exactly. The SOL issue is being conflated with the retroactive application question. I agree with you, but admit not to have read the act itself in full.

 

[ErinC]

The thought going through my head...there are women in this world like Chad Doerman's wife, who slapped her hand over the barrel of a loaded rifle in order to try to save her children. Aaaaand then there's JS.

 

[kae27]

Exactly. The SOL issue is being conflated with the retroactive application question. I agree with you, but admit not to have read the act itself in full.

Let me try to be more clear.

A statute of limitations tells you how long after a crime was committed (or depending upon how a statute is written, how long after the crime was discovered to have been committed) you can still charge a person with that crime.

That has nothing to do with what penalty will apply to a person convicted. The question that has arisen was whether the new statute enacted in 2023 making certain CSAM death-penalty eligible would be applicable to the penalty for crimes committed prior to enactment. In general, it is not possible to retroactively apply a penalty to a crime that was committed prior to the penalty becoming available - i.e., he would not be death penalty eligible for crimes committed prior to that new statute's effectiveness.

 

[SleutherGirl]

Who is Donna? (Donna's law) She is who the bill is named for...

Donna Hedrick.

 

[Universecalling]

Let me try to be more clear.

A statute of limitations tells you how long after a crime was committed (or depending upon how a statute is written, how long after the crime was discovered to have been committed) you can still charge a person with that crime.

That has nothing to do with what penalty will apply to a person convicted. The question that has arisen was whether the new statute enacted in 2023 making certain CSAM death-penalty eligible would be applicable to the penalty for crimes committed prior to enactment. In general, it is not possible to retroactively apply a penalty to a crime that was committed prior to the penalty becoming available - i.e., he would not be death penalty eligible for crimes committed prior to that new statute's effectiveness.

Thank you for providing more clarity.
Would Maddie had to have been under 12 AFTER Oct 1, for those 8 charges (with possibility of of DP) to apply?

 

[PayrollNerd]

On the "Information" document, 36 pages, goes into great detail for each charge. The first 8 charges look just like this clip. I scribbled out the graphic details. The document has been linked in prior posts.

 

[ttjo]

I’m starting to think he can be charged retroactively.
There are 8 possible DP chargers. All under the age of 12 crimes.
Maddie was 12, not under 12 when the law went into affect on Oct 1, 2023.
Therefore, to me it looks like they are using it retroactively.

maybe its 12 and under? I find it so frustrating and difficult to understand when it's written a little grey and you have to go hunting for the answers.

 

[SleutherGirl]

Let me try to reword my question: Is it possible for these crimes that he has been charged with, these charges for being under 12, occured separately at a time prior to Maddie's 12th birthday? And they have been discovered only now that she has died?

 

[ttjo]

Let me try to reword my question: Is it possible for these crimes that he has been charged with, these charges for being under 12, occured separately at a time prior to Maddie's 12th birthday? And they have been discovered only now that she has died?

I believe they were discovered from the forensics off his phone no?? when LE retrieved all the info he "accidentally" factory reset.

 

[SleutherGirl]

I believe they were discovered from the forensics off his phone no?? when LE retrieved all the info he "accidentally" factory reset.

Ok, so is it possible then, that LE has evidence of crimes committed prior to Maddie's twelfth birthday, that they are charging him for now?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Ok, so is it possible then, that LE has evidence of crimes committed prior to Maddie's twelfth birthday, that they are charging him for now?

Yes. Some of the crimes that he has been charged with took place in 2019, when Maddie was just 8 years old.

IIRC, some of the charges were for "a child under 12" and others were for "a child 12 to 18",

 

[Litig8r]

Let me try to be more clear.

A statute of limitations tells you how long after a crime was committed (or depending upon how a statute is written, how long after the crime was discovered to have been committed) you can still charge a person with that crime.

That has nothing to do with what penalty will apply to a person convicted. The question that has arisen was whether the new statute enacted in 2023 making certain CSAM death-penalty eligible would be applicable to the penalty for crimes committed prior to enactment. In general, it is not possible to retroactively apply a penalty to a crime that was committed prior to the penalty becoming available - i.e., he would not be death penalty eligible for crimes committed prior to that new statute's effectiveness.

You beat me to it, @kae27, and you explained it more clearly than I probably would have. Thank you!

There’s verbiage in the bill that specifies it applies to crimes committed on or prior to October 1, 2023. That clarifies the point you were making, @IzzyBlanche! Good job!

I still say it will all be moot because they’ll get him on murder.

maybe its 12 and under? I find it so frustrating and difficult to understand when it's written a little grey and you have to go hunting for the answers.

Under 12. You are so right—this is why we “practice” law.

 

[ttjo]

You beat me to it, @kae27, and you explained it more clearly than I probably would have. Thank you!

There’s verbiage in the bill that specifies it applies to crimes committed on or prior to October 1, 2023. That clarifies the point you were making, @IzzyBlanche! Good job!

I still say it will all be moot because they’ll get him on murder.


Under 12. You are so right—this is why we “practice” law.

well thank god for people like you who can interpret the grey for us!

 

[SleutherGirl]

Let me try to be more clear.

A statute of limitations tells you how long after a crime was committed (or depending upon how a statute is written, how long after the crime was discovered to have been committed) you can still charge a person with that crime.

That has nothing to do with what penalty will apply to a person convicted. The question that has arisen was whether the new statute enacted in 2023 making certain CSAM death-penalty eligible would be applicable to the penalty for crimes committed prior to enactment. In general, it is not possible to retroactively apply a penalty to a crime that was committed prior to the penalty becoming available - i.e., he would not be death penalty eligible for crimes committed prior to that new statute's effectiveness.

So what you are saying, is that regardless of what happened at what age, if the offenses are commited prior to 2023, then the statute is irrelevant to his sentencing. Is this correct?