FL - Manhunt in Tampa after 4 slayings in 5 weeks, Oct-Nov 2017 #2 *Arrest*

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Comparing the crimes, shot in the back, less up close and personal than someone say stabbing, beating, strangling a victim face to face, so can we possibly assume seeing the victims faces as they die isn't necessarily part of his thrill? Or is this a stretch in your opinions?

Eta so, what's the thrill? The noise, seeing them fall...just killing them.
Eta: In the TX church shootings, I came across a study about "is there a link between violence and video games" and "noise" was mentioned in the results as part of an on hands study...

Point is just to kill. Power...

Also, why so many bullets if he does not apparently stand around looking at his " handiwork " the shooting aftermath?
Definitely do not want to get into talking about guns and bullets, but are bullets expensive/hard to find in the area/ somewhat precious and used sparingly?
Did someone he cared for get shot 4-5 times in the past, does he want others to feel that pain of losing someone to violence?
speculation.
 
Also why so many bullets if he does not apparently stand around looking at his " handiwork "?
Definitely do not want to get into talking about guns and bullets, but are bullets expensive/hard to find in the area/ somewhat precious and used sparingly?
speculation.

Oh man I could talk guns and bullets all day (but wont if you dont want to haha)...the hours we've talked about the various types of ammo in NOCO, with Foxfire taking the lead and Hatfield there close by as well...this to me is the key..."pop, pop, pop, pop, pop..."

Point of distinction from a potential profiling angle.

This is primarily why I get a gangster or "wanna be gangster" vibe, moo (mixed with a mass shooter type mentality, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop... but single victims).

Eta: some type of hybrid between sk, rampage, mass and spree? Seems to possess qualities of all, imo.
 
Also, why so many bullets if he does not apparently stand around looking at his " handiwork " the shooting aftermath?
Definitely do not want to get into talking about guns and bullets, but are bullets expensive/hard to find in the area/ somewhat precious and used sparingly?
Did someone he cared for get shot 4-5 times in the past, does he want others to feel that pain of losing someone to violence?
speculation.

Imo bullets are not hard to find/acquire or that expensive (relative, of course), especially in this day and age, moo.

*Eta: Very curious about all aspects ballistics.
 
Dotr, can you please post thatr awareness space/geographic profiling triangle thing I've seen you post before (Lizzie's and Lyric's iirc?) Tia.
 
Also, why so many bullets if he does not apparently stand around looking at his " handiwork " the shooting aftermath?
Definitely do not want to get into talking about guns and bullets, but are bullets expensive/hard to find in the area/ somewhat precious and used sparingly?
Did someone he cared for get shot 4-5 times in the past, does he want others to feel that pain of losing someone to violence?
speculation.

Hmmmmmm...I like this, dotr....he has maybe lost a family member to violence, possibly. (Was interesting to see DN's family history in Abby's and Libby's case, his mother was murdered, by his uncle, his brother was murdered...). Not an excuse, but possible trigger, imo.
 
As far as serial killers go, the SHS so far stands alone. If the victim is shot from behind, the killer presumably does not see the face of fear.
In this case, the " ideal victim " could be male, female, black, white- but so far the only criteria seems to be that the victim is alone and distracted.
But what if all along he had the opportunity to kill other people who fit the alone/distracted bill, but he did not shoot them because they did not meet some other " specific victim quality "?!
What might those unique to the killer qualities be?
imo, speculation.

https://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/serial-killers/serial-killer-victim-selection/
rbbm.
Perhaps he's not thriving on the fear of the victims, but rather, on the fear of the community. That could also be a side reason for keeping it local. It jacks up the sense of fear.

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They were all people who did not own cars, all people who worked jobs. This killer holds the people of the community in contempt. jmo I think he might have come to the community somewhat recently. Afaik he has never attempted to break in to a house to find a victim. In fact he seems to have no interest in the usual type of activity i.e. tormenting his victims before and after he shoots them. He just wants to get rid of them, which makes me feel strongly that this is a retaliation type of spree. jmo
No, but on the community Facebook page, several have said their cars and homes were broken into this year and nothing taken. Just creeped them out. They are beginning to think someone was looking strictly for guns, and if there were none, left everything else.

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My heart jumped when I saw that shooting from yesterday...seems LE thinks that was an isolated incident? (I'm sure yall discussed it? )
 
(O /T, interesting article:

The Science of Mass Shooters: What Drives a Person to Kill?
By*Stephanie Pappas, Live Science Contributor*|*June 15, 2016 10:59am ET
https://www.livescience.com/55076-science-of-mass-shooters.html

"As bizarre as these facts are, mixed and murky motivations are standard for so-called lone-wolf attackers, regardless of whether they are defined as terrorists, experts say. There is no template for the path to violence, and rarely can a single cause explain any one atrocity.

What that means is that researchers and others trying to prevent these attacks are focusing less on ideology and more on behavior. One study of lone terrorists of all stripes found that 83 percent had hinted to others about their plans before becoming violent, said Mia Bloom, a professor of communication at Georgia State University who researches suicide terrorism. The Orlando club shooter was reportedly no exception: NBC has reported that his wife told the FBI that she knew of his plans and tried to talk him out of attacking."

Snip

""What we're seeing more and more is that the logical, normal sequence is out of whack," Bloom said. Jihadist groups such as ISIS recruit in prisons, luring people who have checkered pasts with the promise of personal reinvention or greater meaning in life. Lone actors may use political causes as a veneer of respectability to cover for personal rage or despair, she said.

"You can have multiple, overlapping motivations," Bloom said.

Personal or political?"

https://www.livescience.com/55076-science-of-mass-shooters.html )
 
(Another snip from above, "A final complication is that terrorist organizations are constantly changing and adapting. When Israel's security forces started to catch male suicide bombers, Bloom said, terrorist groups started sending women strapped with explosives to checkpoints. In Nigeria, the Islamic militant group Boko Haram has even used children to carry out attacks. ISIS has, at various points, tried to recruit everyone from violent prisoners to do-gooders who feel the urge to help war orphans, Bloom said. The group also exhorts loners with no real connection to ISIS to commit attacks in its name.

"The moment there is a profile, you know what they do? They switch it up, and they change the operative," Bloom said.

https://www.livescience.com/55076-science-of-mass-shooters.html )
 
(Post by Foxfire:

11-13-2015, 05:48 PM#261

Foxfire
Join Date Jan 2010
LocationWolfscratch Wilderness/North GAPosts
Posts 8820

""Just a matter of time''..

May 7, 2015 - 1,000 terrorism related investigations in USA Director Comey FBI - FBI director says Islamic State influence growing in U.S.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...s-us/70945534/

WASHINGTON — In a dramatic assessment of the domestic threat posed by the Islamic State, FBI Director James Comey said Thursday there are "hundreds, maybe thousands" of people across the country who are receiving recruitment overtures from the terrorist group or directives to attack the U.S.

Comey said the Islamic State, also known as ISIL, is leveraging social media in unprecedented ways through Twitter and other platforms, directing messages to the smartphones of "disturbed people'' who could be pushed to launch assaults on U.S. targets.

"It's like the devil sitting on their shoulders, saying 'kill, kill, kill,''' Comey said in a meeting with reporters.
<snipped - read more>"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...is-13-November-2015-1&p=12186467#post12186467 )
 
FTR, through much research, time, and thought, it was very interesting, Foxfire had come up with his own personal POI in the NOCO shootings. He was arrested for beheading his grandparents and had strong ties to ISIS.

I bring this up, ISIS, because recruits are given plain directives: "kill, kill, kill." And this refers to single victims as well.

Again, just exploring all options and bringing all theories to the table.
 
I do recall reading something an ISIS spokesperson said about the US : " there are going to be a lot of unsolved murders " I found that a strange statement ( even from them ). Never forgot it. Who knows if this is anything like that. But, I did read about mosques being burned in the Tampa area. jmo

I just want to add the muslims I know find jihad and murder appalling. They want no part of that at all. Always some bad apples though, I guess...
 
Dotr, can you please post thatr awareness space/geographic profiling triangle thing I've seen you post before (Lizzie's and Lyric's iirc?) Tia.
http://www.popcenter.org/learning/60steps/index.cfm?stepNum=16
While the problem analysis triangle (Step 8) identifies the three essential elements of crime, it does not explain how offenders find suitable targets. According to Marcus Felson, they do this in three main ways:

  1. Through personal knowledge of the victim (your neighbor's son might know when you are away from your house).
  2. Through work (a burglar working as a telephone engineer might overhear that you will be taking vacation next week).
  3. Through overlapping "activity spaces."
The concept of activity spaces is central to crime pattern theory, which was developed by the Canadian environmental criminologists Pat and Paul Brantingham (see figure). They use the concept to describe how offenders find targets in the course of their daily routines. Starting with a triangle, they consider offenders going from home to work to recreation. Around each of these three nodes and along each of these three paths (excepting a buffer zone where they might be recognized) offenders look around for crime opportunities. They may find these a little way off the path, but they usually do not go far beyond the area they know. This is because it is easier to commit crimes in the course of their daily routine than by making a special journey to do so.
The Brantinghams also use the term edges to refer to the boundaries of areas where people live, work, shop, or seek entertainment. Some crimes are more likely to occur at these edges - such as racial attacks, robberies, or shoplifting - because this is where people from different neighborhoods who do not know each other come together. In an early study, the Brantinghams found that residential burglaries in Tallahassee, Florida tended to cluster where affluent areas bordered on poor areas. Their explanation was that the affluent areas provided attractive targets to burglars from the poorer areas, but the burglars preferred not to venture too far into them because they were unfamiliar with the territory and might be recognized as not belonging there. They would also be more vulnerable because they would have further to travel with the proceeds of the crime.
The paths that people take in their everyday activities and the nodes they inhabit explain risks of victimization as well as patterns of offending. This is why the Brantinghams and other crime pattern theorists pay so much attention to the geographical distribution of crime and the daily rhythm of activity. For example, these researchers generate crime maps for different hours of the day and days of the week, linking specific kinds of crimes to commuter flows, school children being let out, store closing hours, or any other process that moves people among nodes and along paths. Pickpockets and some shoplifters seek crowds, while other offenders pay closer attention to the absence of people. For example, the flow of people to work generates a counterflow of burglars to residential areas, taking advantage of the commuters' absence. The flow of workers home at night and at weekends produces a counterflow a few hours later of burglars targeting commercial and industrial sites.
Many studies have shown that the journey to crime is typically very short - offenders generally commit crimes within 1 or 2 miles of their homes. For example, Andy Brumwell, a crime analyst with the West Midlands Police, one of the U.K.'s largest police forces, has recently completed an analysis of 258,074 crime trips made over a 2-year period. He found the following:

  • About half the journeys were less than a mile. (In most U.S. studies the journeys might be a little longer because of lower population densities and greater access to vehicles.)
  • Distance traveled varied with the offense. For example, shoplifters tended to travel further than many other kinds of offenders.
  • Females traveled further than males, possibly because many committed shopliftings.
  • Individual offenders varied considerably in crime trips. Some usually committed crimes in their local neighborhoods. Others traveled further, particularly when working with co-offenders.
  • The youngest offenders committed crime very close to home, while those in their 20s traveled the furthest.
Susan Wernicke, a crime analyst with the City of Overland Park, Kansas, presented more detailed information on juveniles at the National Institute of Justice's 2000 National Crime Mapping Conference in San Diego, California. She showed that in Overland Park the 11-yearolds arrested had committed crimes an average of 1.05 miles from home. This distance gradually increased with age, and by age 17 was 2.7 miles. She attributed part of the increase to greater access to cars.
[h=3]The Journey to Crime and the Self-Containment Index[/h] Andy Brumwell has developed the "self-containment index," which looks at the percentage of crimes in an area that is committed by offenders who also live in that area. A value of 100 indicates that local offenders are responsible for all the crimes, whereas a value of zero indicates that local offenders commit none of them. This value should be calculated when analyzing a local problem. Whether predators are local or come from a distance will have an influence on the type of situational crime prevention measures that could be successfully introduced. For example, closing streets in a particular neighborhood will only be effective if many of the offenders drive to the neighborhood to commit crime.


You can use the concepts of crime pattern theory to understand crime in your jurisdiction. You should try to piece together offender and offense patterns by finding nodes, paths, and edges. You can begin to distinguish between how offenders search for crime and when they find it by accident. You can find where offenders are absent and where they congregate in hot spots and think about the reasons for this (Step 17). You will find that very local crime patterns tell the story. Thus a high-crime district will have some streets with no crime at all and some addresses which generate most of the problem. Residents may know it is fairly safe to walk down one street but not to walk down another. They may even choose one side of the street over the other. If residents know their local turf this well, what's to stop you from finding out about it? Crime pattern theory helps you do just that, and it will help to define a specific problem at the scanning stage and understand the contributory causes at analysis.
[h=3]Brantingham Crime Pattern Theory[/h]
step_16.gif

Kim Rossmo prepared this diagram to represent the Brantinghams' theory. It shows an offender's activity space (residence, work, recreation, and the travel routes between them), the buffer zone close to the home in which offenders do not usually commit crimes, and five potential target areas (for example, parking lots). Where an offender's activity space intersects a target area, this is where crimes happen (crosses). Note that in this example no crimes occur around the offender's workplace, because there are no suitable targets there. Also, there are two target areas with no crimes in them because this offender is not aware of those places.

Source: Rossmo, Kim (2000). Geographic Profiling. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press.
 
Also, why so many bullets if he does not apparently stand around looking at his " handiwork " the shooting aftermath?
Definitely do not want to get into talking about guns and bullets, but are bullets expensive/hard to find in the area/ somewhat precious and used sparingly?
Did someone he cared for get shot 4-5 times in the past, does he want others to feel that pain of losing someone to violence?
speculation.

I think that's an interesting theory. Retaliating on a community he blames for the loss of a loved one? Seems like a plausible motive to me. Obviously there's more to it than that- a deep seated anger- but that could've been the straw that broke the camels back.


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rbbm

Yes, that's a very unusual statement. I by no means made an exhaustive search, but I couldn't find anything with that quote attributed to ISIS or terrorism. Do you remember the news source? TIA

I do recall reading something an ISIS spokesperson said about the US : " there are going to be a lot of unsolved murders " I found that a strange statement ( even from them ). Never forgot it. Who knows if this is anything like that. But, I did read about mosques being burned in the Tampa area. jmo

I just want to add the muslims I know find jihad and murder appalling. They want no part of that at all. Always some bad apples though, I guess...
 
dotr, would you mind reposting the link from earlier that described the types of serial killers, poachers, etc. ? Thank you so much.
 
rbbm

Yes, that's a very unusual statement. I by no means made an exhaustive search, but I couldn't find anything with that quote attributed to ISIS or terrorism. Do you remember the news source? TIA

It was a TV news report. I will try to recall more, and I am 100% sure of it. Reason is, I thought of WS when I heard it !
 
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