GUILTY FL - Markeis McGlockton, killed following parking dispute, Clearwater, 19 July 2018

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My guess is that some DAs in Florida are getting tired of people thinking a concealed carry permit also makes them a "Regulator". "Regulators" have a long history of rapidly becoming everything they claim to be against- including criminals. Best to nip such thoughts in the bud.

My guess is not one prosecutor thinks this is analogous to "regulators.'

"Regulators" were third parties, not victims who may or may not over-reach in defending from an assault. Killings by regulators in the 'range wars" were almost always long after a precipitating event, no during one -- and by persons not involved in the original event. So you are using a term that is nowhere near accurate. An analogy to a regulator would be if a third party , a few weeks later, killed McGlockton or Drejka. As to the general point about concealed carry, the data indicate non law enforcement gun owners stop or prevent a couple million crimes per year.

This is a case of the individual who is clearly , we all agree, was victim of an assault.

So it is also problematic, frankly specious, to call it "a shooting over a parking space" when it is shooting resulting from a serious criminal assault.

Most juries are going to see being thrown on a concreate or asphalt surface as an assault that created reasonable fear of risk of grievous bodily harm.

The assault already occurred and the conflict situation was ongoing and in the case law an assault that has already occurred means expectation of continuing is present. The issue here turns on whether the assailant McGlockton was reasonably thought to be likely to continue the attack -- which would mean valid use of lethal force by Drejka in any and every US state under long established case law if he did not feel he could safely withdraw. Or not, which would mean I is not a justified homicide, regardless of presence of, or lack of ,stand your ground in a jurisdiction's code.

In a jurisdiction with no stand your ground, the option of withdrawing is usually only raised by prosecutors before the initiation of violence. And the defense can parry that saying Djerka does not have to use withdrawal option unless he could be sure he could do so at no risk.

Also what we have is the persecutor's offices charging. None of us here are looking at the defense arguments, nor the forensics. Anyone drawing conclusion is doing so with half the facts.

Plenty of people have been initially assaulted by a person initiating criminal violence, and then killed as the attack resumed. None of us knows yet all the factors that will be argued toward Drejka's reasonable expectations
 
He was pushed onto his behind, it was not a serious assault. He was not thrown. At no time did MM pick him up to enable him to throw him. He was pushed with open hands.
And what often gets left out is that MM was probably defending his family. I can't imagine any other reason for him to shove a stranger.IMO
 
State of Florida vs Curtis Reeves could ultimately be a Stand Your Ground case.

Five times Florida’s ‘stand your ground’ law sparked controversy
Updated: July 23, 2018 at 04:35 PM
A trial date for Reeves has been set for Feb. 25, 2019. However, it is unknown to what extent recent changes to the "stand your ground law" passed by the Florida Legislature could affect Reeve’s case.

"Stand your ground" ruling could mean new hearing in Wesley Chapel movie theater shooting

7:17 PM, May 9, 2018
Nicole Oulson’s attorney TJ Grimaldi says he can’t believe a district court of appeals ruling, saying the revised stand your ground law can apply to the Curtis Reeves case.
State of Florida vs Curtis Reeves could ultimately be a Stand Your Ground case.

Five times Florida’s ‘stand your ground’ law sparked controversy
Updated: July 23, 2018 at 04:35 PM
A trial date for Reeves has been set for Feb. 25, 2019. However, it is unknown to what extent recent changes to the "stand your ground law" passed by the Florida Legislature could affect Reeve’s case.

"Stand your ground" ruling could mean new hearing in Wesley Chapel movie theater shooting

7:17 PM, May 9, 2018
Nicole Oulson’s attorney TJ Grimaldi says he can’t believe a district court of appeals ruling, saying the revised stand your ground law can apply to the Curtis Reeves case.

I just disagree it will apply. Even if allowed to be argued, the issue is not retreat since in a theater seating situation it can be easily argued there is not reasonably expectation of completely safe retreat against an assault. The issue will remain whether throwing popcorn creates a reasonable fear of death or grievous injury -- which is, as it has been, highly unlikely.

The press articles you cited are the worst type of judicial press coverage, they are taking kitchen sink legal defenses and as part of the kitchen sink, evocations of what are arguably very good laws, and judging those laws on cases where they do not apply. We still hear Zimmermann was a stand your ground case when it was not even evoked by the defense.

Maranda "sparks" controversy as well. And bogus claims of inapplicable Miranda issues are also raised as defense in some cases. does that mean we need to chuck Miranda?
 
If someone is violating the law. You call the police and let them deal with it.

Initiating an argument while carrying a gun should be no no.
Police arrive in time to prevent 2 to 4% of violnet crime. And your lack of knowledge as to US code and case law means what? What you are saying is no self defense is valid which puts your view outside of all established US law
 
Police arrive in time to prevent 2 to 4% of violnet crime. And your lack of knowledge as to US code and case law means what? What you are saying is no self defense is valid which puts your view outside of all established US law
Wth are you talking about. Is a parking violation a violent crime?

Should he start initiating arguments with Jay Walkers as well.
 
And what often gets left out is that MM was probably defending his family. I can't imagine any other reason for him to shove a stranger.IMO
McGlockton's attack and violent assault could simply is one of millions that occur without substantial or legitimate reason. your or my not easily imagining any illegitimate reason just means we are not the type of person who commits assaults.

This case is much more about imminence of threat. The grounds for reasonable expectation of being assaulted are already established due to the first assault. this case will turn on whether a jury believes that Djerka reasonably believed an imminent continuation.

since the assault already occurred, the probative burden will be on the prosecutors, no the defense.
 
Wth are you talking about. Is a parking violation a violent crime?.
Please avoid strawman arguments -- it only shows you likely have no basis for your position.

Djerka was assaulted by mcGlockton, a criminal and aggravated assault - a violent crime. No prosecutor is going to deny that.

This case will be decided on imminence and proportionality. I agree it is a case that should go to trial.

So neither you nor I know all the facts. A jury will get them
 
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He held that lady and baby hostage with verbal assaults while looming towards her car. She was terrified once she seen him place his hand near his hidden gun. Others wanted to help but her boyfriend came to her rescue.

This guy deserves significant decades in jail. He also should have lost his license from the previous road rage incident where he was the only one to pull out a gun.
Thank goodness there is video showing that there was no "assaults" and the only crime was the attack by MM. It's so clear and obvious. I can see that Mr D will be suing the state over unjust prosecution. I hope he gets a million or so.
By the way, how does someone hold another person "hostage" by telling them the truth? Personally I would have been horrified and apologized and moved my car. Of course, I am a law abiding member of the public.
 
McGlockton's attack and violent assault could simply is one of millions that occur without substantial or legitimate reason. your or my not easily imagining any illegitimate reason just means we are not the type of person who commits assaults.

This case is much more about imminence of threat. The grounds for reasonable expectation of being assaulted are already established due to the first assault. this case will turn on whether a jury believes that Djerka reasonably believed an imminent continuation.

since the assault already occurred, the probative burden will be on the prosecutors, no the defense.
I could buy it being random if MM had walked up to an innocent person that was standing around and having no contact with anyone.
But MD was engaged with BJ and that leads me to believe that the contact/shove had to do with that engagement of MD with BJ.
In other words MM didn't walk up and shove someone just for the he*l of it. IMO
 
I could buy it being random if MM had walked up to an innocent person that was standing around and having no contact with anyone.
But MD was engaged with BJ and that leads me to believe that the contact/shove had to do with that engagement of MD with BJ.
In other words MM didn't walk up and shove someone just for the he*l of it. IMO
Agreed
 
Personally I would have been horrified and apologized and moved my car. Of course, I am a law abiding member of the public.

Bbm. You said he wasn't verbally assaulting her. But now you just admitted that you would have been personally horrified.

Exactly. She was scared by the gun toting parking lot vigilante. I agree. And I hope he does get millions so the family can sue him and take his millions after the civil suit that they will put forthe towards his estate.

So I agree totally my friend.
 
When the discretion of the PD was to not charge the man who shot MM, people were all for the discretion of LEO. Posts were clear that if LE deemed it not a crime then it was not. Interestingly, the prosecutors (also LE) are seeing it differently and charged a crime. Why is it now an overreach? Couldn't it be also argued that LE initially not charging be an overreach?

I will be anxious to see how this plays out in court and will accept a jury's verdict. I would hope all would. I didn't agree with some other stand your ground outcomes but what could I do. The fairest way to determine fault/guilt is a trial in front of your peers. We are innocent until proven guilty but if a jury finds us guilty we are then guilty. Thank goodness a trial will be happening.
 
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McGlockton's attack and violent assault could simply is one of millions that occur without substantial or legitimate reason. your or my not easily imagining any illegitimate reason just means we are not the type of person who commits assaults.

This case is much more about imminence of threat. The grounds for reasonable expectation of being assaulted are already established due to the first assault. this case will turn on whether a jury believes that Djerka reasonably believed an imminent continuation.

since the assault already occurred, the probative burden will be on the prosecutors, no the defense.


It can also be stated that McGlockton was aggrieved in this instance as the prosecution is charging. I agree it is about imminent continuation. The burden is indeed on the prosecution.

Not that you are doing this, but, the level of lionizing that is occurring about Mr. McGlockton is disappointing to me as is the assumptions about Mr. Djerba and his state of mind and being. This is a tragedy for all involved. To name call on either side seems pointless to me. This may or may not be about social ills as well. But, I can see clearly that there are some things really going wrong in FL and many other parts of the country.
 
Stand your ground now means we must read the mind of an accused killer
John Romano
Times Columnist

Published: August 13, 2018
Updated: August 14, 2018 at 09:09 AM

[...]
. . . Monday’s decision is merely the next chapter and not the denouement of this story. A judge still has to agree that Drejka is not entitled to immunity under stand your ground. And then a jury will have to make the same call. Personally, I think Drejka has a good chance at walking free.
Not because I think he deserves freedom, but because the statute is so squishy.
[...]
Whether you would have yelled at another person over a parking space is not the point. Whether you would have been carrying a gun is not the point. Whether you would have worried you were about to have your teeth kicked in while on the ground in a parking lot is not the point.
The point is whether Drejka had reason to be scared after being attacked.
[...]
 
Every western country in the world has those tenets. They are not original to the Founding Fathers. It was contained in the 1215 Magna Carta.
Actually the Magna Carta allows the prosecution of a person multiple times for the same crime. Also, the UK allows the prosecution to appeal an innocent verdict, which means there is no real innocent until proven guilty. In America, not guilty is written in stone and guilty is written in sand. So, yes, they are original to America.
 
Bbm. You said he wasn't verbally assaulting her. But now you just admitted that you would have been personally horrified.

Exactly. She was scared by the gun toting parking lot vigilante. I agree. And I hope he does get millions so the family can sue him and take his millions after the civil suit that they will put forthe towards his estate.

So I agree totally my friend.
Of course I would be horrified if I had been caught parking in the handicapped space. I would NEVER NEVER blame the person for telling me though. I would blame myself for being a jerk. Only a JERK would deprive the handicapped of their right to access facilities. If you look at the video, he wasn't verbally assaulting her, they were speaking.
 
He was pushed onto his behind, it was not a serious assault. He was not thrown. At no time did MM pick him up to enable him to throw him. He was pushed with open hands.
Actually, like the police said, it was BRUTAL. He was lifted off his feet in the violence of the slam he recieved from behind from a coward. Americans don't have to submit meekly to a beating.
 
Thank you. I don't know how to check spelling on here, I'm sorry. I rely on my phone's autocorrect.


I'm unfamiliar with other systems and don't want to be off topic, but am interested in the issue of paying for one's defense and will do research as to not derail the thread.
Again, though, thank you for answering.

is not to be used for that purpose, but there are other defense funds available.

anyways I thought this thread was closed.
 

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