FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

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Frankly, I disagree with having a secret no-fly list that people have no defense against.

The no-fly list is mishandled as well as abused for political purposes. It's not who we are as Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#False_positives

Numerous children (including many under the age of five, and some under the age of one) have generated false positives.

Daniel Brown, a United States Marine returning from Iraq, was prevented from boarding a flight home in April 2006 because his name matched one on the No Fly List

Some members of the Federal Air Marshal Service have been denied boarding on flights that they were assigned to protect because their names matched those of persons on the no-fly list.

Robert J. Johnson, a surgeon and a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, was told in 2006 that he was on the list, although he had had no problem in flying the month before. Johnson was running as a Democrat against U.S. Representative John McHugh, a Republican. Johnson wondered whether he was on the list because of his opposition to the Iraq War. He stated, "This could just be a government screw-up, but I don't know, and they won't tell me."

In October 2008, the Washington Post reported that Maryland State Police classified 53 nonviolent political activists as terrorists, and entered their names and personal information into state and federal databases, with labels indicating that they were terror suspects. The protest groups were also entered as terrorist organizations. During a hearing, it was revealed that these individuals and organizations had been placed in the databases because of a surveillance operation that targeted opponents of the death penalty and the Iraq war.
People under the age of 18 can't purchase a firearm legally anyway and have time to clear that up. But, I don't trust Wikipedia as a research source though. It can be modified by anyone with or without any credentials or knowledge and there is even a Wikepedia warning as such.
 
Pretty much every civilized society has those rules. The Bible was not the foundation for our laws or government, though most of the founding fathers (am I allowed to use that term? might be seen as a microaggression) were Christian.

Roman law and British common law provided the legal foundation.

I respectfully disagree.
 
Hi Everyone,

Please do not bring your religion into the discussion. Whether you are an atheist or believe in God it has NOTHING to do with this topic.

Gun control and your religion. Two topics that will derail a discussion in a micro second.

You our can discuss the religion of the gunman of course but keep all other beliefs out of your posts.

This thread is not about gun control. It is about the Orlando mass killings.

Thank you for keeping Websleuths a respectable forum.

Tricia
 
This poor guy is receiving some criticism.

I am sure he now realizes that it wasn't the shooter banging and screaming to get out.

[video=youtube;BuGSZAF-gWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuGSZAF-gWg[/video]
 
It means it was a Christian nation based on Bible beliefs...On God, and slowly God is being taken out of our country and it shows. Not hard to figure out really IMO. If someone comes into our country they need to assymilate just like we would have to in their country. We are not an Islamic country.

Actually, our nation was founded on the belief the King of England needed to be NOT be running this nation. The whole Declaration of Independence was directed towards the King.
 
To be quite honest with each of you the only word that comes to mind is *****! I can not find the cord to put between the camera and the computer to hopefully share the pics I took. I will go get one tomm, and hope I can figure out how to get them here.

The only way I know how to ger pics from the camera is thro an attachemnt in an email. I am hoping I can do a cut and paste, and post them here for all of you .

Thanx to so many of you who have been helpful in terms of mother ....................................

Not doing a emotion thing group hug!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I know, I am sick to death of hearing that the suspect has no ties to isis, I don't care who they have ties to or are affiliated with it's all for the same reason. It's islamic terrorist. jmo

I am with you, Elley. I am really sick and tired of the demeanor the President always displays when another Islamic terrorist murders more of our innocent people here.

It is very dismissive of the victims who died and the others who were wounded, some of them critically clinging to life. In the end it does not matter if he had ties to ISIS or not. His sick ideology and hatred is why all of these victims are dead and wounded whether he has international ties to ISIS or was one very dangerous lone wolf. It doesn't change one thing about this horrific attack done by a hate filled Muslim extremist.
 
I hate to see this thread become and Christian/Muslim debate. NO ONE, no matter what their religious beliefs, has the right to murder innocent people. This MONSTER happened to be muslim. IMO, debating the Christian belief system isn't really relevant to this case. JMO

You're so right. But it's going to continue. It's more important to debate "religion" than it is to talk about what really happened in Orlando. I'm getting slightly nauseated here. :(
 
No. Most Americans celebrate diversity. But when our neighbors, our friends, our children, repeatedly are targeted...when over and over, the dead pile up in cities here and around the world...we are paying attention to what the murdereres are claiming is their motivation. We can't help but see what they claim to have in common.

The basic assimilation required is mutual toleration...as simple as...to reject the "entitlement" that your Faith can dispense death to those who don't abide by its set of beliefs.

But over and over, we are not seeing that.

The deaths, the terror attacks...seem to be about forcing a religious ideology on non-believers. I think assimilation is just...getting over the mindset that anyone has the right, to kill anyone who rejects their Faith.
 
Thanks WS for correcting the crawl.

Hi Jax,
The incorrect information came from channel 9. My apologies. I should have checked other sources before I put what turned out to be an incorrect number of people killed.
 
This poor guy is receiving some criticism.

I am sure he now realizes that it wasn't the shooter banging and screaming to get out.

[video=youtube;BuGSZAF-gWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuGSZAF-gWg[/video]

The shooter isn't going to knock or bang on the door..He will just shoot it. I hate to think of how many poor people died in there because they couldn't get out that door!
 
This poor guy is receiving some criticism.

I am sure he now realizes that it wasn't the shooter banging and screaming to get out.

[video=youtube;BuGSZAF-gWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuGSZAF-gWg[/video]

I am sorry IMO , dude you think a murderer is going to be banging on a door, it was blocking other from fleeing

dont go on nationial tv a confess such moomomomomomo
 
So what do you suggest we do about stopping this type of terrorist? Both are American citizens, this one too was obviously out to commit a terrorist act, on the same day, to the same group of people, they were just lucky they got a tip on him.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

I am so glad they were able to stop that hater. When I read it I wondered if he wanted to do a copycat killing.

I hope they throw him under the jail. He is another hater our country doesn't need.
 
Thank you! I had seen a shared post on Facebook that was of a screenshot where someone spoke about their friend/cousin (can't recall) who took 12 bullets, but made it, and said that the news is not reporting that there were 2 others shooting in there who are now 'on the loose' or something of the sort. I decided to come here and check what had been posted since I last looked earlier this morning to see if there were any MSM references to this.

Scary.

I wondered if it was mistake by the witnesses due to stress or there were two other shooters that got away- extremely scary.
 
Spell checked -- we are safe! I took pictures , I hope I can figure out how to get them here.


I awoke this morning with both trepidation and ambivalence. I had a burning desire to go down "there". My main want was to see to see media in an international story.


It made sense to me after some pondering. My initial career choice was to do television news. While getting my BA in that arena, it became clear that in order to break into television news, one has to start in small market which means a small city.


This was 30 some years ago. I came out like 5 years earlier, and, here in Orlando experienced homophobia. Would, where I ended up even have a gay bar? If some citizen of that small town drove by and saw the reporter on the news going in a gay bar, would I be fired solely for that?


I went to my professors, and the answer was probably. I was at an existential moment. Was I wiling to give up who I am, for who knows how long, for a career in broadcasting?


My answer was no and started all over in mental health.


I could not help but ponder the ironies here. My career change was a result of homophobia, decades ago, and today I want to see media, that are here because of homophobia. How far have we really come?


I decided to go the hotel that was being utilized for this first. I figured parking would be easier. I am horrible with directions and was quite proud of my self that my Map Qwest had gotten me there .


When I pulled in, however, I was relieved to see a lone camera woman in the parking lot, and was able to ask some questions. I wanted to know how far, walking would be to the bar. Reasonable distance. It is hot and humid today.


While talking to her, another woman approached us and was asking about the place where family were gathering. I overheard the camera woman tell her that it was even closer than the bar.


She also stated that she would not film inside the hotel. That registered to me. I went in and there was nothing really going on. I saw some press eating in a small dining room . I thought about asking the front desk where the conference room in the hotel was. I did not, after the camera woman's comment about not violating them, ask.


While walking, I noticed that ORMC (main hospital for the tragedy) was one block over. Both Carol Costello and Erin Burnett has broadcast from there earlier today.


As I got closer I did start to pass more folks with PRESS badges around their neck, and an increase in TV vans. There was a media presence, much smaller than what I would encounter shortly. There was a minimal LE presence.


I headed over to the next stop. On my way over , I saw a profound difference in the quantity of press vans. I also passed a cluster of like 10 people coming down the sidewalk approaching me. As I got closer they were wearing T-shirts with logos like "We Are One" and Blessed, and I knew that they were a part of the tragedy as well.


I passed a hybrid car charger on one of the meters. I do not know why I want to share that - but it was neat. I explored it a bit!


As I turned the corner I once again praised myself in that I certainly was not lost.


The media hoards were astounding. I also noticed that there was one huge "pocket" of media, and then smaller clusters of media spread about. I saw some lone cameramen and reporters.


I thought that might be smart actually, not caught up in the hoards as it related to heat, and lights that were burning.


I also pondered if that might not be lonely, and in covering this might not be a good idea.


I am not shy, and carefully navigated the endless cables strewn all over the place. I attempted to "listen" as I passed the main hoard of journalists. It was very somber and quiet. There was on young tech kid who had on upbeat music, which I found offensive.


I decided (so hot) that I had better drive , in AC closer to the club. More and more media vans were strewn around about, the closer I got. On grass. Over curbs. Sideways. Backwards.


I then saw a shower of white satellite dishes aiming for the bright sky. I am no particularly religious, but I could not help but noticing that they all were aiming for the heavens.


It almost, looked like, from afar, a pavilion you would see at Disney.


I started seeing LE with the blue and red lights atop of there cars on. That confused me, it is daylight. The closer I got the more press badges I saw passing me, the more cop cars I saw, and more tripods standing alone in isolation.


Then I was close. Crime tape , along my walk, had been discarded, all over the place, in random places. Then I saw the main media camp. Utterly breathtaking. It was like LE made space, via crime tape, to give them their needed space.


I checked out the situation, in terms of walking through them to get a closer to the main road of the atrocity. I noticed a lot of them (tech people) did not have anything around their neck, so I figured I would be fine going in front of them, behind the crime tape, to get closer.


All was well. My heart was pounding as I realized that I was there, on the main road. It was restricted by crime tape across the entire 4 lanes, and LE was all over.


As I was taking it in, the amount of satellite dishes was numbing. Utterly numbing. There were tents and tents of journalists, I noticed that there were tables of food and drinks in some sections of each tent.


I was enbolded , and decided to move closer, to grasp the enormity of it all. I had done it a couple of times with no problem! This next foray did have a cop standing in the middle of the road, but the crime tape was not across the whole street.


I also knew that I would not be arrested, and that worst that could happen was he would prohibit me from getting to the next "point of view".


I started going up that road. Then I hear this obnoxious, what amounted to a loud grunt, and knew it was the cop in the road. He was rude, and demanded that I come here. He had the cop body language, arms all puffed out, legs a bit apart.


As I got closer he rudely asked me if I regularly cross police lines. I explained to him that the road was not taped off . He pointed me back to where I came from. Just rude.


I attempted to talk to him by asking him how long he had been there and how tired he was. Rude, he was.


Hey one of four ain't bad! I decided to try another angle and was successful. On that walk, I saw the 7-11 where the video was shot by the folks the night before. It was the video where in the background you can hear them saying "they are shooting at each other".


It was not , the video from the guy on the roof that showed the barrage of gunfire by LE, when the perp came out of the hole in the building SWAT made to rescue the hostages.


I made it onto the road. It took me some time to catch on. It looked as if there were a bunch of cars,on a highway, that you would see at a red light.


Slowly I realized that every one of these cars were empty.


It was a "parking" lot, on the 4 lane road that the bar was on. The parking lot went all the way back to the main barricade. It was long. That stunned me. It was unmarked LE cars. 100's.


It was an experience. Walking back through that cluster of media to head back to the car, I heard a member of the media on her cell phone talking to someone about cleaning a bathroom. I found that, also, somewhat offensive.


On the walk back to the car, was I glad I had the experience? Yes I was . There was a catharsis to it. Some you know what has been going as far as my mother goes, and I concluded that a therapeutic experience might have some benefit there as well.


As I got closer to home, I passed a fire station that had a sign in front of it that said" Pray For Orlando" and tears flowed...........................

I thought you were going to say the cars were left there by the dead and injured. Thanks for the trip down through the territory. This is all so sad.
 
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