FL - Mass Shooting at Pulse nightclub, Orlando, 12 June 2016 #2

[Matlacha]

I think that his goal was to terrorize. He did that.

He also attacked a soft target. A gay club where the patrons were likely unarmed. JMO

Florida doesn't allow legal concealed carry in a bar or the bar area of a restaurant, so almost certainly the club was legally a gun-free zone. Now if only we could get criminals to honor these laws.

 

[human]

Isn't that what they did with the bikers in Waco? They arrested them all and charged all of them with engaging in organized criminal activity.

They were present at the murders. Most were released.

 

[Dogface]

Isn't that what they did with the bikers in Waco? They arrested them all and charged all of them with engaging in organized criminal activity.

Yes, this exactly.

 

[stmarysmead]

So your plan is to arrest and imprison people for their thoughts?

We don't have to arrest and imprison people. But people loose their jobs everyday for posting hateful homophobic or racist comments on social media...teachers, police men...no second chances. Certainly the same can be done for those who post hateful comments that praise terror groups or violent gangs. Let's just have the same rules across the Board. Common sense.

 

[Sonya610]

Witness discusses the club shooting. As mentioned before, randomly shooting into crowds doesn't typically rack up this high a kill rate (though having 3 hours to bleed out surely increases the death toll).

Unlike most other mass shooters, this guy was going back to the downed victims and pumping more rounds into them to make sure they died quickly.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/49379365...d-to-kill-us-all/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips

For those that want to say this is about mental illness and not ISIS, there are tens of thousands of ISIS fighters in the middle east and they would all participate in (or at least condone) the execution of homosexuals. Do people explain that away by saying mental illness is to blame? Iran is far saner and they will hang homosexuals from a crane with great ceremony. Do people believe the leadership in Iran also suffers from run of the mill mental illness?

 

[rob]

Omar Mateen didn't "pour into our Country" - he was born here!

The parents who raised him weren't. The father who if running for office in Afganistan wasn't. The social media he probably reads and follows aren't all from here.
ALL MOO

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...-presidency/story-r5kh7XIy7bP6q5fQyAGl5O.html
dad was running for office, this was probably to help him win the election

 

[Dogface]

I understand the slippery slope some are speaking of, but IMO, actively seeking to be a member of a group that actually murders people should be a crime in itself. In regards to the Jewish sympathizers/Hitler, I think being part of a group that is simply trying to save people is a whole different thing from a group who's active goal is murder/violence. I'm not going to derail the thread further by debating this, as it's simply my opinion. But this "flagging" people and letting them go on about their lives isn't working.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Refresh my memory, did Timothy Mcveigh leave letters/tell people that he carried out his crime due to a radicalized view of Christianity?

As far as I can find McVeigh didn't even go to church and never said he was a Christian or avowed any allegiance to any faith group when he did his despicable acts of murder.

He was a man filled with hate against the federal government about what he perceived they did wrong at Ruby Ridge and Waco. That is why he hit a federal building when he murdered 169 innocent people.

The only ones I have seen say they murdered someone for their religious faith other than Islamic terrorists are those who target abortion clinics. Over the years I believe during the targeting of abortion clinics one woman was severely injured and then last year there were three people killed outside of an abortion clinic. Other than those victims I cant remember others specifically being targeted at an abortion clinic to do a mass shooting where lives were lost. I do remember one doctor who did late term abortions was murdered in his driveway by a Christian extremist.

Most of these mass murderers do not carryout their acts because of their faith. Many didn't even go to church or profess to believe in any religious faith. So I don't quite understand why some automatically bring in Christianity when an Islamic terrorist/sympathizer has murdered once again when very little of the mass shootings in recent decades have had nothing to do with the shooter being a Christian where their motive was solely based on them being a Christian.

Most mass shooters are either anti-government, racists, perceived they were bullied by their targets or were known to have mental issues before carrying out the mass murders. But it seems every time an Islamic terrorist strikes they want to make sure everyone knows they did it because they believe in radical Islam and support ISIS.

 

[human]

We don't have to arrest and imprison people. But people loose their jobs everyday for posting hateful homophobic or racist comments on social media...teachers, police men...no second chances. Certainly the same can be done for those who post hateful comments that praise terror groups or violent gangs. Let's just have the same rules across the Board. Common sense.

Public employees have different rules than private businesses

 

[Strangeworld]

I don't know enough about the couter-terrorism laws and funding in the US - from what I've heard in the last 24 hours when he was investigated on the 2 occasions a few years ago, there wasn't enough evidence to keep his case active, but they said they don't officially close these cases, they just sit dormant/not actively worked on.

So does anyone know any of the following or what thoughts do you have as US citizens:

-is it possible that he was been actively monitored in ANY capacity, even though his case was dormant i.e. emails, social media postings

-do you think there should be more funding to enable the point above? Should anyone who is investigated then be monitored for the rest of their lives, or if not every person investigated, what should be the line drawn for those that should continue to be monitored indefinitely? Obviously the potential would be monitoring an extremely high number of people - raises issues of the financial cost but also US citizen rights?

-is there ever a time when a person's thoughts should justify an arrest i.e. I am going to xxxx and I am going to kill xxxx. Where does US law stand on expressing personal views versus an actual threat?


Thanks for anyone that can give any insight on this.

 

[Treelights]

I would call this 'killing two birds with one stone'. or if he was secretly gay and had been spurned by his interest, maybe he killed 3 birds with that stone.
MOO

Exactly what I said in the first thread… Killing two birds with one stone.

We think a like!

IMOO.

 

[ladygator]

Based on this link, it appears he was having work issues.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/orlando-shooters-worker-filled-rage/story?id=39811453

You don't normally hear people say they could see someone doing something like this. It's usually the opposite!

He was a ticking time bomb!

 

[human]

What was Timothy McVeigh motivated by?

You may wish to read about McVeigh's favorite book, The Turner Diaries

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532

 

[stmarysmead]

I think your key word is actually acts~~LE pretty much has their hands tied. Unfortunately, until they act we cannot do anything lest we become like Hitler. During WW II, if you were even thought to be a Jewish sympathizer, you were put into a concentration camp. I think that is why JJenny said it was a slippery slope. There is a fine line between sympathizing and acting.

Jews were singled out for the ethnicity, not for praising violence. There is nothing laudable about using social media to praise the killing of innocents. We are not talking about armies here. We are talking about the much loved children...husbands and wives of people who are hideously killed to...promote a religious theology. If you post in FB or Twitter that you are a sympathizer of Isis, this is a far cry from "supporting Jews" vs. the Nazis. It does not make us Nazis. It makes us intolerant of people as vicious, as deadly as the Nazis.

 

[rsd1200]

This guy was on FBI radar in 2013 and in 2014 having a connection to a islamic terrorist in Syria yet he was able to buy guns! LOL. This was not looked into before this all happened because of "political correctness". Unbelievable, sick, pathetic whatever you want to call it.

I don't know if he was still on any watch lists or not. Haven't gotten up to speed this morning. However, the Senate voted it down to deny people, on a federal terrorism watch list, the ability to purchase guns. Not getting political. j.s.

 

[rob]

We need to ban airline tickets and box cutters too.

We don't blame the airplanes for 9-11. Taking away guns will not stop violence. Hatred always finds a way. Actually using planes as bombs was very effective, wasn't it? The Shoe Bomber had no gun. The Boston Marathon bombers caused havoc with pressure cookers. Suicide vests are doing the job to kill overseas...no guns. Biological weapons ...and, one day, as Iran is now on the nuclear path...nuclear weapons ...that is coming too. There's a commonality here, but it is not guns.

All the guns can be confiscated tomorrow...and it won't stop zealotry, hate or terrorism. It will just change the methodology. It's a side discussion, one people can respectfully have, but it's only a side issue.

Terrorists in France couldn't buy guns there, but it didn't stop them. Won't stop them here either, just make it easier.
I hate that no one in that club wasn't a concealed carrier.
All MOO

 

[human]

As far as I can find McVeigh didn't even go to church and never said he was a Christian or avowed any allegiance to any faith group.

He was a man filled with hate against the federal government about what he perceived they did wrong at Ruby Ridge and Waco. That is why he hit a federal building when he murdered 169 innocent people.

The only ones I have seen say they murdered someone for their religious faith other than Islamic terrorists are those who target abortion clinics. Over the years I believe during the targeting of abortion clinics one woman was severely injured and then last year there were three people killed outside of an abortion clinic. Other than those victims and cant remember others specifically being targeted at an abortion clinic to do a mass shooting where lives were lost. I do remember one doctor who did late term abortions was murdered in his driveway by a Christian extremist.

Most of these mass murderers do not carryout their acts because of their faith. Many didn't even go to church or profess to believe in any religious faith. So I don't quite understand why some automatically bring in Christianity when an Islamic terrorist/sympathizer has murdered once again when very little of the mass shootings in recent decades have had nothing to do with the shooter being a Christian where their motive was solely based on them being a Christian.

Most mass shooters are either anti-government, racists, perceived they were bullied by their targets or were known to have mental issues before carrying out the mass murders. But it seems every time an Islamic terrorist strikes they want to make sure everyone knows they did it because they believe in radical Islam and support ISIS.

You may wish to read this as well as about his favorite book, The Turner Diaries.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532

 

[stmarysmead]

You may wish to read about McVeigh's favorite book, The Turner Diaries

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532

McVeighs book is not being used by 10 countries to justify the murder of Gays. McVeighs book is not being taught in places of worship as a world view. How many millions of people believe in Sharia law vs are devoted followers of McVeighs ravings. There is no equilancy here.

 

[human]

Refresh my memory, did Timothy Mcveigh leave letters/tell people that he carried out his crime due to a radicalized view of Christianity?

You may wish to read this

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/an-accurate-look-at-timothy-mcveighs-beliefs-cms-15532

 

[human]

McVeighs book is not being used by 10 countries to justify the murder of Gays. McVeighs book is not being taught in places of worship as a world view. How many millions of people believe in Sharia law vs are devoted followers of McVeighs ravings. There is no equilancy here.

It is not his book. You may wish to read about it and what it is used for