FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, brutally murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #2

[bwill24]

How often does something like this happen in a sudden onset?
Sudden onset of mental illness is very common, particularly around the early to mid twenties. That being said, it typically manifests as a manic episode (someone suddenly not sleeping, acting erratically, etc.) or even a psychotic episode (seeing/hearing things that aren't there) but this is the very first case, if it turns out ot be an onset of mental illness, where I have heard of a violent, horrific rage event like this happening suddenly. Those with mental illness are typically not violent towards others. That's what makes this so bizarre and leads me to believe something else (chemically) had to add to the issue.

 

[ninij9]

How often does something like this happen in a sudden onset?
Sudden onset of mental illness is very common, particularly around the early to mid twenties. That being said, it typically manifests as a manic episode (someone suddenly not sleeping, acting erratically, etc.) or even a psychotic episode (seeing/hearing things that aren't there) but this is the very first case, if it turns out ot be an onset of mental illness, where I have heard of a violent, horrific rage event like this happening suddenly. Those with mental illness are typically not violent towards others. That's what makes this so bizarre and leads me to believe something else (chemically) had to add to the issue.

Perhaps sudden onset of mental illness coupled with steroid withdrawal (ie roid rage)?

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[PositiveLight]

Snipped and bolded by me.

I keep thinking about how many of his family members had interactions with him just before he flipped out and committed these terrible crimes. He was with Dad on a walk, talked with Dad's gf, his Sister was around him, went to Mother's house...only they know just how odd he was acting. I have no idea if it's possible this was his first BIG psychotic break from a sudden mental illness without prior use of any drugs or steroids. It was such a violent, uncommon, unstoppable and a sudden-sudden break from reality with very little warning he might kill people. If no chemicals were involved prior to this, and he was experiencing early onset of a mental illness, then I'm surprised it came on so fast and murderously. I think I'd find it easier to understand if I found out he had been under some chemical influence. How often does something like this happen in a sudden onset?

Well I can give you my personal experience with my daughter. She had been having long standing bouts of depression since she was in 4th grade even mentioning suicide. I, as a nurse, knew something was immediately wrong and got her help. She was on depression meds for several years which never seemed to help much. She was also in therapy. Early on I questioned the possibility of a bipolar diagnosis with her doctor. She told me that until she had a true manic episode, we couldn't be sure although it would explain why her depression meds never seemed to help. When she was 18 she experienced her first manic episode. It was horrible to say the least. But she didn't harm anyone physically! Only then did she finally start getting the proper medications. Sometimes they require tweaking but they do help tremendously. My daughter is a sweet beautiful girl and she is more hard on herself than anyone else. She's very empathetic and loves her family. She doesn't like being very social due to severe anxiety. But! Schizophrenia also raises it's ugly head during these young ages of late teens and early twenties. Maybe being a nurse helped me in recognizing symptoms but it was always obvious she had troubles dealing with depression. Thankfully in my case, she was and still is veryyyy vocal in how she is feeling. I think it helps if the person suffering feels safe opening up and doesn't feel judged. If they think opening up may trigger a "ahh your fine quit worrying blah blah blah" attitude from whomever they speak with, they more than likely will keep it in festering.
So that's one of my personal experiences. Each person is effected differently and has different triggers and situations. So it's important to get them in therapy quickly. I do feel he has some metal health issues that were exacerbated by steroid withdrawal and use of a synthetic drug possibly.
Stabbing someone is one thing, but eating their face and abdomen is a whole nother ballgame. Something else was definitely in the mix for this young man to go that barbaric. JMOO

Also want to add that it is such BS that they kept his recovery quiet. I think it was important for the victims and their families and the public to be made aware of his improvement. At first the whole "we will wait to charge him so his parents have to foot the bill" thing I thought was smart. Now looking back, I wonder if the sudden stop in updates was more of the attorney and his family doing this so they were able to keep his medical info private for as long as possible. If the parents were footing the bill, they couldn't be forced to release his progress I'm assuming. But! If the state was footing the bill, we would have constant updates. Just my opinion but in my mind this might have been a smart move to keep it out of the public eye.
I'm totally shocked at how healthy he looks. Yes he looks like he lost weight. Yes he had a medicated shuffle to his gait. But...from total organ failure to this is pretty remarkable. Unless it was being very exaggerated. I seem to think it was. Doesn't appear to be any muscle wasting either. If there was I would expect him to require a wheelchair due to lack of strength and endurance.
Did he even blink during his first court appearance?

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[Curious Me]

Thank You to those sharing their own experiences and responding to my questions about such a violent sudden-sudden onset. From what I can gather, it's rare for it to include such murderous rage that includes trying to eat a victim. He even drank some harmful caustic substance without seeming to notice or care. AH was completely out of reality in such a short time from leaving that restaurant. It begs explanation. Like I said, prior chemicals, perhaps steroid use, involved would make it easier for me to understand. What happened is incredibly sad for all concerned.

 

[DexterMorgan]

(http://www.univision.com/noticias/a...onio-en-florida-ingirio-quimicos-de-su-garaje)

​

A married couple was in their garage on Monday when deputies say a 19-year-old suspect savagely attacked them.

John Stevens III, 59, and his 53-year-old wife Michelle Mishcon were both stabbed to death.

A neighbor heard screams and ran out to help, but was stabbed as well. That neighbor was able to get away and contact police. When police arrived they said they found the suspect biting off parts of Stevens' face.

When officers found the man attacking Stevens III, they used a stun gun on him, but it had no effect. A K-9 officer also bit him, but that also failed to stop him.

http://fox4kc.com/2016/08/17/shawnee-mans-dad-and-stepmom-killed-in-south-florida/

Thread #1

So this lovely couple was killed by the happy go lucky middle class duesche bag for What Reason?

 

[x_files]

So this lovely couple was killed by the happy go lucky middle class duesche bag for What Reason?

My fear justice won't be done. Most people seem to feel more sympathy for the murderer than the victims (not here but online).
Why isn't this story getting media attention? Amanda Knox story was 24/7 for almost 10 years, but nada on this. I find this case beyond disturbing.

 

[PositiveLight]

My fear justice won't be done. Most people seem to feel more sympathy for the murderer than the victims (not here but online).
Why isn't this story getting media attention? Amanda Knox story was 24/7 for almost 10 years, but nada on this. I find this case beyond disturbing.

Agreed. I think it's sad for all involved honestly. But! To a large extent if he did take steroids or any substance like flakka for example, that was his own decision. Therefore he should pay the consequences. His parents if they ignored the warning signs and didn't get him proper treatment should see their fault in this. The true victims are this lovely couple and the man who tried to save them and their families. What really makes me upset is keeping his condition so quiet. That isn't fair to the families and the victims. Now I think I understand why he was under police guard. He wasn't as bad as they were possibly saying. JMOO

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[PositiveLight]

My fear justice won't be done. Most people seem to feel more sympathy for the murderer than the victims (not here but online).
Why isn't this story getting media attention? Amanda Knox story was 24/7 for almost 10 years, but nada on this. I find this case beyond disturbing.

And you are totally correct. This should be on main stream media! People need to know, if he was on some kind of drug, to be careful and not ingest it!

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[x_files]

And you are totally correct. This should be on main stream media! People need to know, if he was on some kind of drug, to be careful and not ingest it!

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I wonder why the media picks some cases to exploit and ignore others?
Is Miami hushing this to not effect tourism?

 

[Curious Me]

And you are totally correct. This should be on main stream media! People need to know, if he was on some kind of drug, to be careful and not ingest it!

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That's what bothers me. If he took a drug, or was abusing steroids, then this wasn't just a case of a sudden onset of an "organic" mental illness. It changes the story and our understanding of how this could happen. IMO, the true facts need to be fully reported to the public if a drug or steroid use had anything to do with this.

I agree we can't forget that the true innocent victims are the Stevens couple and their neighbor who tried to save their lives. They have family and loved ones that deserve truth and justice, as does the community.

 

[GeeEm]

I have yet to hear of a drug or anything he ingested! What's up with this? I know I've been really busy, but geeze, people do need to know as Positive Light posted!

jmo

 

[x_files]

I have yet to hear of a drug or anything he ingested! What's up with this? I know I've been really busy, but geeze, people do need to know as Positive Light posted!

jmo

At least the LE know he killed them, unlike the Missy Bever's case just went cold. No justice served at all for her family.
But again recent court cases have me no longer trusting our judicial system money buys affluenza slaps on the wrist.

 

[GutInstinct]

I'm just going to say it...

As a parent of a 19 year old who stuggles with depression and anxiety, I observe my son's behavior like a hawk. I'm not going into details except to say - there are signs! blaring neon signs! And the sirens will get louder and louder. Symptoms and odd or unusual behaviors become more and more frequent AND severe. AH was silently screaming for help in those videos he posted for the world to see. What the heck? He even went so far to actually say he had a psycho side on video! And he had been saying he had superhuman powers to his (parents) weeks leading up to this?!

This did not happen over just a few weeks or months. AH's internal torment was 100 percent ignored. I'm not talking about drugs. I realize parents don't always know that. I am talking about when your own child is in emotional distress and displaying classic symptoms and behavior related to mental illness.

Lastly, I wasn't going to mention this when I thought what we all thought until he "walked out" of critical care, but I think the rage was kicked in by the D; that there was extreme resentment, hatred and pent up anger towards his D, and that when he left his mother's and started walking the last time, he was headed toward his father's house to ... .

 

[GeeEm]

At least the LE know he killed them, unlike the Missy Bever's case just went cold. No justice served at all for her family.
But again recent court cases have me no longer trusting our judicial system money buys affluenza slaps on the wrist.

What?? Missy's case is now a cold case??? OMG! :what: I'm heartbroken, thank you for telling me x_files

I hope justice is served at least on the "Cannibal AH" case, just amazed at how things are turning out.

Thanks ~

jmo

 

[GeeEm]

I'm just going to say it...

As a parent of a 19 year old who stuggles with depression and anxiety, I observe my son's behavior like a hawk. I'm not going into details except to say - there are signs! blaring neon signs! And the sirens will get louder and louder. Symptoms and odd or unusual behaviors become more and more frequent AND severe. AH was silently screaming for help in those videos he posted for the world to see. What the heck? He even went so far to actually say he had a psycho side on video! And he had been saying he had superhuman powers to his (parents) weeks leading up to this?!

This did not happen over just a few weeks or months. AH's internal torment was 100 percent ignored. I'm not talking about drugs. I realize parents don't always know that. I am talking about when your own child is in emotional distress and displaying classic symptoms and behavior related to mental illness.

Lastly, I wasn't going to mention this when I thought what we all thought until he "walked out" of critical care, but I think the rage was kicked in by the D; that there was extreme resentment, hatred and pent up anger towards his D, and that when he left his mother's and started walking the last time, he was headed toward his father's house to ... .

I am sorry for your 19 year old child GutInstinct, I hope he continues to do well.

As for AH, I am not familiar with his symptoms, but if I just viewed his videos, I would think he was normal. I watch my nephew and his friends A LOT and gosh they are do crazy stuff, but they are not mental, nor have any mental issues. I just get so sad when every time something bad happens, mental illness is the problem, not the individual themselves. This is the major problem today, when people whom really have issues, can not get help, because they do not go out and murder people, just unreal.

Again, I do not know what happened, but I do hold AH accountable for his actions for the murder of 2 innocent people and the attempted murder of another one.

Did AH "walk out" of critical care? Like I said I have been so busy I just jumped in, will need to go back and read all that has and hasn't happened, the only thing I know is what I have seen on the news.

Take care of yourself and your son.

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

 

[TDW59]

It is not impossible that someone with schziophrenia is violent, if they are having delusions that someone is out to get them, basically, but more commonly respond by being avoidant.
However I do not believe at all, this is the case with Austin. That kind and severity of illness is too very very apparent, one cannot act normally.
There must also be deep anger and almost always a past history of violence.
These occasions are extraordinarily rare.

It is pretty much a given, from the articles that I have just read, that there is also substance abuse. Alcohol is a common factor in violence but definitely not the only one, the articles say that even with mental illness drug use is the tipping factor. In fact, it is the drug use that is the precipitating risk factor, not mental illness. In other words,it could happen to anyone on volatile drugs.

This is from several articles. I will link this one: https://www.sane.org/mental-health-and-illness/facts-and-guides/mental-illness-and-violence

I do believe Austin was very angry at his father. I do think his father has/had a drinking problem. That public attack was definitely not ok. What were things like the rest of the time?
He might say this to him frequently for all we know.
I have wondered if this was not a root factor in Austin being into being very strong, a bodybuilder.

Roid rage, I think so.

But the totality and suddenness of the "snap" and the nature of the crime makes me think moreso now that he did take something else.

Plus I still think he & dad shared a few beers that afternoon...in that so called bonding thing.

I am going to read up some more.

And I do feel deceived. Along with failing organs, pneumonia, ICU...we were told all along he could not talk and make a statement.

With a police guard, they would know when he was moved out of ICU. Why didn't they report that?

oh, and give me a break! possible mental illness. He was in the hospital plenty long enough to have been diagnosed, along with access to his family for questioning.

Shoot, I just had a violent fantasy of kicking the lawyer in the shins for stigmatizing vulnerable people who are far more likely to be victims rather than a danger. No worries, tho. I don't want to hurt my toes. or spend a couple nights in the pokey.

Having a mental illness, I err on the side of caution these days.

 

[TDW59]

I'm just going to say it...

As a parent of a 19 year old who stuggles with depression and anxiety, I observe my son's behavior like a hawk. I'm not going into details except to say - there are signs! blaring neon signs! And the sirens will get louder and louder. Symptoms and odd or unusual behaviors become more and more frequent AND severe. AH was silently screaming for help in those videos he posted for the world to see. What the heck? He even went so far to actually say he had a psycho side on video! And he had been saying he had superhuman powers to his (parents) weeks leading up to this?!

This did not happen over just a few weeks or months. AH's internal torment was 100 percent ignored. I'm not talking about drugs. I realize parents don't always know that. I am talking about when your own child is in emotional distress and displaying classic symptoms and behavior related to mental illness.

Lastly, I wasn't going to mention this when I thought what we all thought until he "walked out" of critical care, but I think the rage was kicked in by the D; that there was extreme resentment, hatred and pent up anger towards his D, and that when he left his mother's and started walking the last time, he was headed toward his father's house to ... .

Thank you. I agree with so much of what you say. Mental illness does not just "show up", there will be a long history of signals. Many people do not recognize them clearly, unfortunately but eventually we stop functioning in a normal manner. I have had differing views within myself about his videos, I would have to watch them again but have been a little busy.

 

[glf]

I wonder why the media picks some cases to exploit and ignore others?
Is Miami hushing this to not effect tourism?

Yes, and a good possibility. The almighty dollar carried alot of weight. :worms:

 

[x_files]

What?? Missy's case is now a cold case??? OMG! :what: I'm heartbroken, thank you for telling me x_files

I hope justice is served at least on the "Cannibal AH" case, just amazed at how things are turning out.

Thanks ~

jmo

It is right now cold.

 

[x_files]

Yes, and a good possibility. The almighty dollar carried alot of weight. :worms:

It seems that's all that really matters anymore. The family with the most money or connections win.