FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #17

[Pias]

Wow Pia you have been busy today thinking of all this....
Dang it why did he go to work the next day????

Did he go to work because
he had a commentment to a homeownernono:
Or to make us look a long way away...:escape:
He really took her there.....:maddening:


How smart is this guy???

I don't know how smart killing someone is, but he's most likely a bit on the crafty side, IMO. I think i'm gonna go with not too bright on the smart scale, if he really killed Michelle.

I would think he would want to go the next day for sure. Early even and even though he had completed most or all of what he set out to do the night before.

It was most possibly dark, lest the headlights, and perhaps a flashlight.

Regardless, he would probably want to check on his handy work, and tidy up any loose ends. And probably giving things another check over after work, too.

I believe he would have had to have subdued her and she was alive at least until she was taken to her final location because there doesn't seem to be cadaver hits on any vehicle that we are aware of.

I think he did everything quickly because he showed no signs of a struggle, seemingly quickly subduing her, and there didn't seem to be any cadaver hits on him from time spent making body contact with her as in moving her body, and transferring the scent back into any vehicle that we know of.

I guess it could be possible he had access on jobs to tyvex, gloves, dust cups, etc.. which would basically supply him some temporary and disposable clothing. He also could have had or put an extra pair of socks and shoes in his truck, and left a pair behind.

He was shown in a photo in this forum, demonstrating how to break a neck. That's quick.

Someone has stated that the ground is sandy and it would take only a few minutes to kick enough sand over someone to cover them. He also easily could have gotten a shovel while at his dad's dropping off the kids, and just ditched it somewhere after he was done with it along with the other stuff he could have wanted to get rid of.

Either way, I still think he (could have) did each step quickly, from start to finish, and probably would have wanted to.

On the other hand, maybe he didn't do it all in one night, or at all.

I just wanted to see if it were possible to do everything on 11/17 and just how much he could do by himself.

 

[JadedGrace]

If DS took Michelle's body to work the next day where was the body stored until that time? And wouldn't cadaver dogs hit on the vehicle that he transported the body in? Assuming of course that LE used the dogs on ALL his vehicles. Did we ever find out for sure if they used dogs at his house and/or vehicles at all? I guess we don't know which vehicle he took to work the next day? There was that one report of the trucker possibly seeing him on the side of the road. Would that road be on the way to Palm Bay?

BBM.

Yes. I can't for the life of me remember if it was 528 or 520 he was seen by....but it doesn't matter. (they're both near to each other and run the same direction, you get off of 528 to get on 520 ) and in going from orlando to palm bay you would most likely want to go to I- 95. (the quickest route) you could get there from either 528 or 520 (being why i don't think my inability to remember which it was matters, at all) The third option would be down highway 50. (not the quickest)

 

[katydid23]

I don't know how smart killing someone is, but he's most likely a bit on the crafty side, IMO. I think i'm gonna go with not too bright on the smart scale, if he really killed Michelle.

I would think he would want to go the next day for sure. Early even and even though he had completed most or all of what he set out to do the night before.

It was most possibly dark, lest the headlights, and perhaps a flashlight.

Regardless, he would probably want to check on his handy work, and tidy up any loose ends. And probably giving things another check over after work, too.

I believe he would have had to have subdued her and she was alive at least until she was taken to her final location because there doesn't seem to be cadaver hits on any vehicle that we are aware of.

I think he did everything quickly because he showed no signs of a struggle, seemingly quickly subduing her, and there didn't seem to be any cadaver hits on him from time spent making body contact with her as in moving her body, and transferring the scent back into any vehicle that we know of.

I guess it could be possible he had access on jobs to tyvex, gloves, dust cups, etc.. which would basically supply him some temporary and disposable clothing. He also could have had or put an extra pair of socks and shoes in his truck, and left a pair behind.

He was shown in a photo in this forum, demonstrating how to break a neck. That's quick.

Someone has stated that the ground is sandy and it would take only a few minutes to kick enough sand over someone to cover them. He also easily could have gotten a shovel while at his dad's dropping off the kids, and just ditched it somewhere after he was done with it.

Either way, I still think he (could have) did each step quickly, from start to finish, and probably would have wanted to.

On the other hand, maybe he didn't do it all in one night.

I just wanted to see if it were possible to do everything on 11/17 and just how much he could do by himself.

But where would he hide her the first night? He had to know LE would be out looking for her. She couldn't be at his home or his parents home because he would be afraid that LE would come knockin. So where would she be until the long drive to Palm Bay the next morning? Maybe his workplace? { But that seems risky too.]

 

[CincinnatiKate]

But where would he hide her the first night? He had to know LE would be out looking for her. She couldn't be at his home or his parents home because he would be afraid that LE would come knockin. So where would she be until the long drive to Palm Bay the next morning? Maybe his workplace? { But that seems risky too.]

Didn't Dale Sr and Dale jr "go out back" when Jr was dropping the kids off, per Mrs. Dale Sr.? Could Jr have just knocked her out/choked her out, put her in the hummer and taken the kids and her to Sr's? Maybe she wasn't dead yet and that's why cadaver dogs didn't hit.
Dale Sr could have helped easily finish the crime and hide the body over night on his property until the next morning when Jr. could pick her body up and head to Palm or timbucktoo?


I am just thinking of possibilities on how he may have gotten her further away.

 

[Pias]

But where would he hide her the first night? He had to know LE would be out looking for her. She couldn't be at his home or his parents home because he would be afraid that LE would come knockin. So where would she be until the long drive to Palm Bay the next morning? Maybe his workplace? { But that seems risky too.]

My scenario was for completing the crime and going to Palm Bay all on the 17th, the day Michelle went missing.

Also, I'd be willing to bet, the location is somewhere slightly North or NW of where his job was, so that he could go to it a couple times the next day, on his way to work and on the way home.

I'm not thinkin he kept Michelle around at all, and I'm not sure how you got that out of my scenario... sorry to confuse you. I meant to convey that I think she was alive till she got where she is now, wherever that is.

Guess it was even more confusing than I thought it could be when I specified that I was seeing if it could all be done on 11/17... I should have said the same day Michelle went missing.

This is all moo.

You probably missed my first post which explains the confusion. Again I am sorry for that and refer you to post number 492 (back one page)

 

[CincinnatiKate]

I did see your "same day" timeline, and you clearly showed its possible. I think Dale sr helped/knew was aware--- its the only way it could have ran so smoothly. If Jr showed up with Michelle unconscious or incapcitated, Sr would NOT want the police there catching wind of him cultivating and would be incline to help IMHO especially if him and ma had just watched the airing of the episode---

 

[Cerebellum]

My theory regarding where he would have hidden her the night of the 17th is the work van. In the video of the search at his house, it doesn't appear the van is in the driveway. Where is it? Was that search on the video from the 17th? My alternate theory is he immediately disposed of her using the Hummer. I also believe there is evidence of either scenario on the surv video from the neighbor. Missing person recovery on OPD scanner right now. Unrelated?

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My theory regarding where he would have hidden her the night of the 17th is the work van. In the video of the search at his house, it doesn't appear the van is in the driveway. Where is it? Was that search on the video from the 17th? My alternate theory is he immediately disposed of her using the Hummer. I also believe there is evidence of either scenario on the surv video from the neighbor. Missing person recovery on OPD scanner right now. Unrelated?

My opinions only, no facts here:

If this is an inside job, it was likely not planned in advance. MP disappeared the day the court TV show aired. Nobody with connections to MP would pick THAT day to finalize a complex plot. Too obvious. Even inspector Clouseau could figure that one out. If this is an inside job- it is a crime of passion.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

BBM

Respectfully...

You are right in the red bolded phrase above: there are in fact no sources that have said the 4:26 Waterford ping was from the area of S. Orange Avenue and Sand Lake. Extrapolation is to project logically from known facts. The only facts we have about the Waterford text are that the text occurred/pinged at 4:26 PM, and that it wasn't from Waterford.

The tip line site doesn't even mention 4:26, nor does it mention Waterford. In fact, no other source that I know of other than the tip line site has mentioned "S. Orange Avenue and Sand Lake" in relationship to Michelle or her cell phone. Where did they get their information? If it was from an anonymous source, where did that source get his information?

If that location were accurate for the Waterford text, we would have heard it before from some other source--from a lot of other sources, in fact. I note that on the tip line site, they are careful to warn us: "The information on the website is subject to constant change and its accuracy is not guaranteed." http://www.cfcrimeline.com/

We know that the 4:15 time quoted on the tip site is incorrect, but let's just use it as a jumping off point, and consider the following:

"After 4:15" means any time up to the last ping from the cell before it powered down around 8 PM.

A cell pings every few seconds, whether or not a call or text is sent or received.

Thus, Michelle's cell pinged hundreds of times after 4:15.

Of course you are indeed entitled to your opinion. I am also entitled to disagree, and to state why. My motivation for doing so isn't just because I have a dedication to the need for evidence, but it is to help out any newbies who might not be aware that no source at all, much less a reliable one, has stated the location of the Waterford ping.


MOO MOO and more MOO

Thank you, Nobody, for taking the time to explain your thinking. I see what you mean; as always, don't worry about telling me you think I'm wrong.

All this is my opinion only (actually, I'm liking "my FANTASY only" better but I cringe at how others might read MFO).

My iPhone will find itself on my iPad or computer even if it is turned off, so I am assuming (and assume makes an *advertiser censored* out of U & ME) that by now LE has a pretty good idea of the path Michelle's iPhone took on the 17th, and they aren't going to tell us where it went. I'm surprised that they knew so fast that the 4:26 "Waterford" was bogus--maybe it's easier to eliminate a location than to find one. My genius bar apple friends tell me that DHS has "ways" to trace where a phone has been for the last two-three weeks, even if it has been off the whole time. (I have "found my phone" a number of times when the battery was "dead", but that's another story.)

My suspicion (which will soon become a hunch, which I will be trying to convince you is a probability within days) is that LE found MP's iPhone when they got back the DHS info because it was pin-pointed by the ping trail. (And they ain't gonna tell us where until they have what they need for an arrest.)

I'm thinking, guessing that since the Sand Lake/S Orange location is south of the Oak Ridge line, that we can assume (*advertiser censored* U ME) that the iPhone went south for some reason on the 17th. I've a couple of favorite "holding spaces" in that area.

Bottom line: I think MOO MFO MOO Michelle and her iPhone were separated before the Hummer left Dale's condo and that the phone went south of Oak Ridge pretty quickly. I'll probably cling desperately to the 4:26 time because of the poetry of it, but know that I know that it's just a hunch.

Whatcha tink?

 

[GrammaMaybe]

I don't know how smart killing someone is, but he's most likely a bit on the crafty side, IMO. I think i'm gonna go with not too bright on the smart scale, if he really killed Michelle.

I would think he would want to go the next day for sure. Early even and even though he had completed most or all of what he set out to do the night before.

It was most possibly dark, lest the headlights, and perhaps a flashlight.

Regardless, he would probably want to check on his handy work, and tidy up any loose ends. And probably giving things another check over after work, too.

I believe he would have had to have subdued her and she was alive at least until she was taken to her final location because there doesn't seem to be cadaver hits on any vehicle that we are aware of.

I think he did everything quickly because he showed no signs of a struggle, seemingly quickly subduing her, and there didn't seem to be any cadaver hits on him from time spent making body contact with her as in moving her body, and transferring the scent back into any vehicle that we know of.

I guess it could be possible he had access on jobs to tyvex, gloves, dust cups, etc.. which would basically supply him some temporary and disposable clothing. He also could have had or put an extra pair of socks and shoes in his truck, and left a pair behind.

He was shown in a photo in this forum, demonstrating how to break a neck. That's quick.

Someone has stated that the ground is sandy and it would take only a few minutes to kick enough sand over someone to cover them. He also easily could have gotten a shovel while at his dad's dropping off the kids, and just ditched it somewhere after he was done with it along with the other stuff he could have wanted to get rid of.

Either way, I still think he (could have) did each step quickly, from start to finish, and probably would have wanted to.

On the other hand, maybe he didn't do it all in one night, or at all.

I just wanted to see if it were possible to do everything on 11/17 and just how much he could do by himself.

BBM

A couple of questions, please.

Do we know that he did not have any cadaver hits on him? LE has not been forthcoming on this that I know of.

Where did he show how to break a neck? I missed it, please direct me.

Thanks.

BTW, since the family business is drugs, speed would be easily accessible and someone his age in good health could go without sleep for a couple of nights with minimal negative effects. So, IMHO, he had at least an extra 8 hours to do what he needed to do.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

My opinions only, no facts here:

If this is an inside job, it was likely not planned in advance. MP disappeared the day the court TV show aired. Nobody with connections to MP would pick THAT day to finalize a complex plot. Too obvious. Even inspector Clouseau could figure that one out. If this is an inside job- it is a crime of passion.

BBM MOO MOO MOO

I respectfully disagree. DS2 had a financial ax to grind with MP, and might have even thought this was an appropriate date to "balance the books." She was taking steps to have his wages garnished for child support and had gotten out of having to pay him back for the ring.

I think it was planned and I think he had some help; NOT with the dirty work, but with delivering the kids and moving himself and cars around.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

Didn't Dale Sr and Dale jr "go out back" when Jr was dropping the kids off, per Mrs. Dale Sr.? Could Jr have just knocked her out/choked her out, put her in the hummer and taken the kids and her to Sr's? Maybe she wasn't dead yet and that's why cadaver dogs didn't hit.
Dale Sr could have helped easily finish the crime and hide the body over night on his property until the next morning when Jr. could pick her body up and head to Palm or timbucktoo?


I am just thinking of possibilities on how he may have gotten her further away.

BBM
I missed the "go out back" part. Do you remember where you found it?

Would LE tell us if the cadaver dogs made a hit? I would guess that they would keep that quiet until after their case was made. Whatcha tink?

Since my belief, opinion, guess, hunch is that Dale did this because Michelle was costing him money, and watching the films of DS senior didn't endear him to me, I'm guessing that DS senior was supportive of and willing to help with getting rid of Michelle. In other words, I agree.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

My theory regarding where he would have hidden her the night of the 17th is the work van. In the video of the search at his house, it doesn't appear the van is in the driveway. Where is it? Was that search on the video from the 17th? My alternate theory is he immediately disposed of her using the Hummer. I also believe there is evidence of either scenario on the surv video from the neighbor. Missing person recovery on OPD scanner right now. Unrelated?

BBM

The van was my thought, too. The Hummer wouldn't have enough room and DS2 wouldn't want his truck or the Hummer to attract the attention of the cadaver dogs. Now, however, I'm thinking that Michelle was upright until Dale had her where he wanted her.

As always MOO MOO MOO.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

There is only one "ping" location from Michelle's phone that LE has released, and it happened at 8 p.m.

Where did the idea come from that the 4:26 p.m. Waterford text "pinged" in the region of Oak Ridge Road near Belle Isle? Virtually every MSM source has LE quoted as saying that the Oakridge ping was recorded at 8 p.m.

And why does LE have to be lying about the 4:40 Hummer being the neighbor's?

If LE's credibility is questioned about this, then throw TP (aka Fact Finder) in with them, too.

Are these really the only scenarios that work?

MOO MOO MOO

The 4:26 ping came from Sand Lake/S Orange in my opinion only and Nobodyknows disagrees 100%.

I don't question LE's credibility, I just think, guess, gather, fantasize that they are trying to protect their information so that they keep ahead of the bad guy(s).

Where does the Michelle Parker Mystery staff graphic come from?

TIA.

 

[GrammaMaybe]

BBM.

Yes. I can't for the life of me remember if it was 528 or 520 he was seen by....but it doesn't matter. (they're both near to each other and run the same direction, you get off of 528 to get on 520 ) and in going from orlando to palm bay you would most likely want to go to I- 95. (the quickest route) you could get there from either 528 or 520 (being why i don't think my inability to remember which it was matters, at all) The third option would be down highway 50. (not the quickest)

528 and 520 cross about 1/3 of the way to Palm Bay. A trucker told Brad Parker that he thought he saw DS2 out there acting suspicious. The area was searched a while ago and could be the place where DS2 held MP until he took her over to the coast on the18th. (It was searched after the 18th.) From MP's dad.

Jaded, I'm thinking, guessing, supposing that DS2 wouldn't want to take the fastest way because of the cameras and tolls--he wouldn't want anyone to be able to track him.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[nobodynoz]

MOO MOO MOO

The 4:26 ping came from Sand Lake/S Orange in my opinion only and Nobodyknows disagrees 100%.

I don't question LE's credibility, I just think, guess, gather, fantasize that they are trying to protect their information so that they keep ahead of the bad guy(s).

Where does the Michelle Parker Mystery staff graphic come from?

TIA.

Thank you, Gramma. Since we simply don't know the location of the Waterford ping yet, it's better, in my opinion, not to commit to any specific spot. I am no more certain that Sand Lake/S Orange is not the spot than I am that it is.

All the supposed cell locations (none of which are identified as the Waterford ping, but more likely identified as the last location of the phone before it shut down), like Oakridge and S Orange, Jesse Black's, and even the tip website's mention of Sand Lake and S Orange, have not been specific points. As I recall, any naming of these locations has usually been accompanied by words like "in the vicinity of." They're each within about a crow's mile of the Nela Bridge. So it seems that the vicinity could easily include the bridge and other points.

IMO

 

[nobodynoz]

Aaaaaaaaah. Finally found an actual link to the newscast where the reporter quoted (at the very end of the video) LE as saying that finding the cell phone "had not come from any specific tips."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/121211-divers-searching-for-michelle-parker

Of course, this is still second hand, but it the closest evidence I have located so far that the phone wasn't located because of a tip. So it's all according to whether you trust the sources. I myself am not entirely convinced, but I'm leaning in that direction.

 

[Pias]

BBM

A couple of questions, please.

Do we know that he did not have any cadaver hits on him? LE has not been forthcoming on this that I know of.

Where did he show how to break a neck? I missed it, please direct me.

Thanks.

BTW, since the family business is drugs, speed would be easily accessible and someone his age in good health could go without sleep for a couple of nights with minimal negative effects. So, IMHO, he had at least an extra 8 hours to do what he needed to do.

A to Q 1) There is no proof that cadaver hits have been made anywhere, so in my scenario I took the posture that there are none. Cadaver hits would not change the fact that this timeline is possible.

A to Q 2) http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr286/olivegirl/22632_1344636053042_1145487401_31082307_3628279_n.jpg

With the above photo came the following caption/comments:
Chris Wyman
Snowtrooper snapping a neck. — with Dale Smith and Aaron Barnhill.

Dale Smith Lol, I like this one the best.
January 18, 2010 at 6:19pm

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1344636053042&set=o.57693847802&type=3&permPage=1

As for the extra time, I was just trying to establish whether it would be needed or not.

Not only can it be done, but it practically gaurantees that the phone will be pinging and powering down in all the right places.

I used a 'avoid tolls' route for my scenario, and I am in no way claiming that this was the exact drive route used. If I were, it wouldn't end up at Lowe's in Palm Bay and we would have already recovered Michelle. But, if Michelle is anywhere near this area, my guess is that the location of Michelle lies slightly N. or NW of wherever it was that he worked the day after m went missing, making it easier for him to return to the scene time wise because it would be somewhere WITHIN the drive to work from his condo. I would also venture to guess that the less time he kept her, the better. That is why I looked into whether or not everything could have happened the day she went missing.

For those of you wondering what we are talking about, it is post #492, 501, and 505 of this thread.

One other thing IMO may fit into what went through his mind that day, among other things. I think it may be possible that he is/was still paying on that ring the day the show aired. At that exact same time, he was seeing that she was moving on. I think he couldn't see straight he was so mad that she was hookin up with another guy before he even got the ring paid off...

Whether true or not, he may have perceived her as going straight from their relationship, into another.

I have no proof. It's just MOO

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

528 and 520 cross about 1/3 of the way to Palm Bay. A trucker told Brad Parker that he thought he saw DS2 out there acting suspicious. The area was searched a while ago and could be the place where DS2 held MP until he took her over to the coast on the18th. (It was searched after the 18th.) From MP's dad.

Wasn't the possible DS sighting by the trucker on the 18th? And didn't he say the person he saw was in a red truck? And didn't he say he was with another person? (this is all on memory so I could be wrong) My point being IF he took her to Palm Bay on the 18th and IF that was him that the trucker saw, he would have been in his truck and not the white work van. Thus she would have been transported in the truck. UNLESS like some suggested he took her out there (alive) on the 17th and then went back to properly dispose of her on the 18th on his way to work....perhaps pick up the body and take it into Palm Bay? Or perhaps the cadaver dogs did hit on one of his vehicles or the Hummer? So true...we really don't know. I am just speculating here. My confusion in all of this is it seems likely that at some point a dead body was transported in one of those vehicles. The keeping her alive until the next day theory just doesn't seem logical to me. JMHO

 

[Pias]

I should also add, that if the location lies N NW of his job which is = to S SE of his condo, it would also shorten the distance actually traveled and change the balance of drive time verses activity time, allowing more time for activity. This is another reason I believe the location is closer to his job than his condo because further is better, but that it lies between the 2 for convenience of access.

I have been able to demonstrate that, while tight, it would be possible to travel that distance and accomplish the needed tasks within various time constraints such as getting the phone to shut down near the proposed location, and being able to meet with LE by 10:30 that evening.

If the area isn't as far as Lowe's, then you could subtract drive and add it to activity time which wouldn't change the overall timeline, but rather, where and how that time was used.

If we had more of an idea what time his mom made contact with him and what time he returned a call to Michelle's mom, it would probably help narrow it down even more. But as far as I know, we do not have this information, or it has been quoted as various times.

And I believe there are multiple ways he could have gotten home from the hummer aside from the obvious parents, friends, taxi, etc...

Where the car was located was a rough area of town. Perhaps Jr had connections with someone there who either has a warrant out or is participating in criminal activity of some sort and wouldn't want anything to do with LE and they gave Jr a ride home and they aren't about to share that information for their OWN personal reasons.

It's just another possibility among the many and is all MOO.