FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

[Kamille]

My friend voluntarily took the test because he knew he was innocent, but the test came back inconclusive. As far as I'm concerned I think that LE had the test come back that way on purpose because they wanted to pin other charges on him. His lawyer gave him one and he passed so when they showed the results to LE, LE said well maybe he was nervous when he took ours so who knows. Bottom line is lie detector tests are IMO a small step above mood rings.

Well your friend may have passed the LE one too. It's an investigative tool. They could have told your friend it was inconclusive to see his reaction. They can tell you anything. Point is, your friend was innocent right? So he's not in prison I assume for having an inconclusive lie detector result.

Neither would anyone else be convicted on one so there's no reason not to take it if you're trying to convince LE that you're innocent.

MOO

 

[Thor]

I think it would also be useful to point out that there are no other named suspects or POI's in this case and that LE has exhausted all other scenarios to come to one and only one PRIME SUSPECT in the disappearance of Michelle Parker. There may be other unnamed POI's but there is only one PRIME SUSPECT. His name is Dale Wayne Smith Jr and he is the last known person to see Michelle alive. There is absolutely no evidence that she was ever seen alive again after arriving at his condominium at 3:18pm on November 17, 2011.

Just the facts for the casual reader.

MOO

The reason for my comment was not to say that Dale is innocent, I don't know that, it was to point out, as someone should, there is a substantial difference between having a spirited debate about whatever little is known about this case, whether they are facts, hearsay, gossip and so on, to have differences of opinions, to even form an opinion about guilt or innocence (for whatever reason one might have to do that with so little evidence ) and quite another to call out in public someone to be "evil" and to mere declare somebody guilty, with such a tone of finality, just by the simple logic of mere accusations, to attribute to someone despicable acts such threatening to kill another, child abuse and so on without any shred of evidence and justified only by a simple JMO. Also, much has been made about here being a victimless board and one can reasonably assume that this courtesy is only for the benefit of us members and does not extend necessarily to anyone else.

 

[Kamille]

And there is absolutely no evidence the Dale had anything to do with Michelle's disappearance, that is unless you believe LE has been sitting on evidence for months for no reason.

Apparently there is or DSJr should be suing the OPD for falsely naming him with no evidence and ruining his life. And considering DSJr has sued for as little as the cost of an engagement ring and some other issue with another woman under $5000, I think he would have been on that months ago.

Of course that would require that he answer to the allegations in a court of law so there's not much chance of that happening.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

There reason for my comment was not to say that Dale is innocent, I don't know that, it was to point out, as someone should, there is a substantial difference between having a spirited debate about whatever little is known about this case, whether they are facts, hearsay, gossip and so on, to have differences of opinions, to even form an opinion about guilt or innocence (for whatever reason one might have to do that with so little evidence ) and quite another to call out in public someone to be "evil" and to mere declare somebody guilty, with such a tone of finality, just by the simple logic of mere accusations, to attribute to someone despicable acts such threatening to kill another, child abuse and so on without any shred of evidence and justified only by a simple JMO. Also, much has been made about here being a victimless board and one can reasonably assume that this courtesy is only for the benefit of us members and does not extend necessarily to anyone else.

Well you know what they say about opinions.

 

[What'sThatClue]

The reason for my comment was not to say that Dale is innocent, I don't know that, it was to point out, as someone should, there is a substantial difference between having a spirited debate about whatever little is known about this case, whether they are facts, hearsay, gossip and so on, to have differences of opinions, to even form an opinion about guilt or innocence (for whatever reason one might have to do that with so little evidence ) and quite another to call out in public someone to be "evil" and to mere declare somebody guilty, with such a tone of finality, just by the simple logic of mere accusations, to attribute to someone despicable acts such threatening to kill another, child abuse and so on without any shred of evidence and justified only by a simple JMO. Also, much has been made about here being a victimless board and one can reasonably assume that this courtesy is only for the benefit of us members and does not extend necessarily to anyone else.

Iirc, Websleuths is a victim friendly board, not victimless. Michelle is the victim here, not the Prime Suspect.


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[What'sThatClue]

Bumping these two posts by nobodynoz, which are full of valuable questions to help us sleuth.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

 

[beach]

I think it'd be useful at this very point to alert the casual reader that DS has not be proven, not even by the flimsiest of evidence, to have killed MP, at that not even LE has alleged that.

Flimsy evidence? uh..okay. Likewise, probably a good idea to inform the casual reader that is YOUR opinion, because frankly, I don't find any of it flimsy.

Just because LE hasn't charged him yet in no way means the evidence they have collected to date is 'flimsy'! All it means is the prosecutors don't feel they have adequate evidence to secure a conviction on whatever charges they may eventually choose to seek. I have faith that his day is coming and respect that LE & the prosecutors are holding their cards close to the vest. The way it SHOULD be done.

That said, he has not been formally charged and he is afforded the presumption of innocence until proven guilty per the US Constitution.

 

[beach]

And there is absolutely no evidence the Dale had anything to do with Michelle's disappearance, that is unless you believe LE has been sitting on evidence for months for no reason.

Interesting how we all interpret the definition of 'evidence' differently.

 

[southern_comfort]

I'm reading "After Etan" right now, and the author stresses over and over that a polygraph is not a lie detector test, but rather a measure of heart rate, respiration and perspiration. Etan's father (like many others) apparently "failed" his test and he had nothing to do with Etan's disappearance.

I am not sure what I would do if I were an innocent person in Dale's position. On the one hand, I'd want to do whatever I could to get myself cleared, mostly for my own sake but also so that LE would quit wasting time and solve the mystery. On the other hand, I have heard of enough cases now to know that poor results often don't mean much but can cast a seriously ominous cloud over a person that is unwarranted and may never really go away.

Given the degree to which Dale has already been judged guilty by the public, what could a polygraph add? Can the die-hard antiDale-ites here honestly say they would change their opinions if the test concluded that he was being truthful?

 

[Thor]

Iirc, Websleuths is a victim friendly board, not victimless. Michelle is the victim here, not the Prime Suspect.


Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Any dissent person is friendly to a victim, and nobody here would say MP is not a victim, and that was not the heart of my point, I was suggesting that when spirited debate degenerates into wild accusations of all shapes and colors that have no foundation in what is on the public record, when people are called out publicly to be "Evil", than IMO, the all thing cease to be a real debate and risks to create yet another victim. The focus should be IMO to try to understand what happened to MP and where she is not that Dale is "evil" and Dale is this and Dale is that.

 

[What'sThatClue]

I haven't seen anything posted here that has no foundation in MSM or public records. A few strong opinions maybe but even those have been formed based on MSM and/or public records. Jmo.

 

[southern_comfort]

Flimsy evidence? uh..okay. Likewise, probably a good idea to inform the casual reader that is YOUR opinion, because frankly, I don't find any of it flimsy.

Just because LE hasn't charged him yet in no way means the evidence they have collected to date is 'flimsy'! All it means is the prosecutors don't feel they have adequate evidence to secure a conviction on whatever charges they may eventually choose to seek. I have faith that his day is coming and respect that LE & the prosecutors are holding their cards close to the vest. The way it SHOULD be done.

That said, he has not been formally charged and he is afforded the presumption of innocence until proven guilty per the US Constitution.

Since we seem to have a sort of disconnect here, maybe we can list the evidence that links DS to Michelle's death. Not things he has done or said in the past, but things that link him to her death in the present.

In Venus Stewart's case, her body has not been found, but we've got signs of a struggle at the end of the driveway where she disappeared, some blood evidence, tire marks near where she disappeared that match her ex's truck, suspicious receipts for shovels and tarps, etc.

What do we have like that in this case?

 

[Kamille]

I'm reading "After Etan" right now, and the author stresses over and over that a polygraph is not a lie detector test, but rather a measure of heart rate, respiration and perspiration. Etan's father (like many others) apparently "failed" his test and he had nothing to do with Etan's disappearance.

I am not sure what I would do if I were an innocent person in Dale's position. On the one hand, I'd want to do whatever I could to get myself cleared, mostly for my own sake but also so that LE would quit wasting time and solve the mystery. On the other hand, I have heard of enough cases now to know that poor results often don't mean much but can cast a seriously ominous cloud over a person that is unwarranted and may never really go away.

Given the degree to which Dale has already been judged guilty by the public, what could a polygraph add? Can the die-hard antiDale-ites here honestly say they would change their opinions if the test concluded that he was being truthful?

Well I wouldn't call myself an "antiDale-ite" but rather a person who believes in true justice for victims of crime, but I can honestly say that it would make no difference to me at this point if DSJr were to take and pass a lie detector test. It wouldn't have made a difference to me at the beginning either. The results are often times faulty, especially if the person taking them has certain types of personality disorders, takes certain prescription drugs etc. I think it's apparent that LE believe they have evidence that he was being untruthful about the events of that day and according to what he apparently told Michelle's family, he was being untruthful, at least to them, so there were likely going to be areas that he should have failed.

The difference to me is his reaction to the suggestion and ultimate refusal to take one. And his refusal to answer to the inconsistencies and to hide behind a lawyer and refuse to co-operate in the investigation into the disappearance of his children's mother....a very important person in their lives regardless of how DSJr feels about her.

So IMO, he behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave when confronted with the inconsistencies in his telling of the events of that day. So the lie detector test is just as useful as an investigative tool when someone refuses to take it as it is when someone voluntarily agrees to take it.

MOO

 

[sreshowtime]

I was up in Sanford Sat. & drove by The Barn-wanted to report I didn't see any banner or poster about Michelle there...at least from my vantage point. I thought that was sad.

Has anyone ,that has kept a closer eye on this case, ever heard or read mention of the Guy Ct. Geneva Fl area specifically being searched? ( her mother's home is on that road) In the back of my mind, I still wonder if she could be found closer to home. tia

 

[Thor]

Well I wouldn't call myself an "antiDale-ite" but rather a person who believes in true justice for victims of crime, but I can honestly say that it would make no difference to me at this point if DSJr were to take and pass a lie detector test. It wouldn't have made a difference to me at the beginning either. The results are often times faulty, especially if the person taking them has certain types of personality disorders, takes certain prescription drugs etc. I think it's apparent that LE believe they have evidence that he was being untruthful about the events of that day and according to what he apparently told Michelle's family, he was being untruthful, at least to them, so there were likely going to be areas that he should have failed.

The difference to me is his reaction to the suggestion and ultimate refusal to take one. And his refusal to answer to the inconsistencies and to hide behind a lawyer and refuse to co-operate in the investigation into the disappearance of his children's mother....a very important person in their lives regardless of how DSJr feels about her.

So IMO, he behaved exactly as a guilty person would behave when confronted with the inconsistencies in his telling of the events of that day. So the lie detector test is just as useful as an investigative tool when someone refuses to take it as it is when someone voluntarily agrees to take it.

MOO

What inconsistencies and when did he refuse to answer them? Why is following a lawyer's advice a sign of guilt? Where was it reported that LE believed he lied? Where was it reported that DS refused to cooperate with the police?

 

[What'sThatClue]

Since we seem to have a sort of disconnect here, maybe we can list the evidence that links DS to Michelle's death. Not things he has done or said in the past, but things that link him to her death in the present.

In Venus Stewart's case, her body has not been found, but we've got signs of a struggle at the end of the driveway where she disappeared, some blood evidence, tire marks near where she disappeared that match her ex's truck, suspicious receipts for shovels and tarps, etc.

What do we have like that in this case?

Well, there's lots of MSM links and statements from the family and LE here:


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

And, let's see...we have a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...ll=28.619487,-81.302948&spn=0.609982,0.877533

And a timeline:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #11

And yet another timeline:

http://www.examiner.com/article/timeline-surrounding-michelle-parker-s-disappearance

And there's a wealth of information located in the various threads. Me, I've started re-reading them from the start just to refresh my memory. Unfortunately we don't have a whole heck of a lot of info from LE. JMO they're keeping their evidence close to themselves for a very good reason--why tip off the Prime Suspect and his attorney prior to arrest and trial until such evidence is required by FL Sunshine Laws to be filed with the Clerk of Courts and thus open to public inspection (unless, of course, a judge seals evidence for some reason). All JMO except the links.

 

[What'sThatClue]

I was up in Sanford Sat. & drove by The Barn-wanted to report I didn't see any banner or poster about Michelle there...at least from my vantage point. I thought that was sad.

Has anyone ,that has kept a closer eye on this case, ever heard or read mention of the Guy Ct. Geneva Fl area specifically being searched? ( her mother's home is on that road) In the back of my mind, I still wonder if she could be found closer to home. tia

I was up in Orange City the other day and saw a couple posters a restaurant, store and bank. They might be old posters, but they're still there.

You could be right about searching the Geneva property because, iirc, Dale had been involved in a film production there in the woods. But, JMO, he might not have had enough time to place her there unless it was the following day--perhaps he disappeared from work for a while. Wish we knew where he worked that day---all we have is a link back here in the threads indicating a trucker called in a tip that he saw Dale's truck and someone who looked like Dale emerging from woods over near the coast. Sure wish we had more on that tip, but, JMO, it must not have panned out. Or, LE is holding it close to their vest for some reason.

 

[Thor]

I was up in Orange City the other day and saw a couple posters a restaurant, store and bank. They might be old posters, but they're still there.

You could be right about searching the Geneva property because, iirc, Dale had been involved in a film production there in the woods. But, JMO, he might not have had enough time to place her there unless it was the following day--perhaps he disappeared from work for a while. Wish we knew where he worked that day---all we have is a link back here in the threads indicating a trucker called in a tip that he saw Dale's truck and someone who looked like Dale emerging from woods over near the coast. Sure wish we had more on that tip, but, JMO, it must not have panned out. Or, LE is holding it close to their vest for some reason.

Did the police acted on that tip? Did they search the area in question?

 

[vibert]

I'm reading "After Etan" right now, and the author stresses over and over that a polygraph is not a lie detector test, but rather a measure of heart rate, respiration and perspiration. Etan's father (like many others) apparently "failed" his test and he had nothing to do with Etan's disappearance.

True, polygraphs are totally inconclusive. I definitely wouldn't have taken one. They shouldn't even make the machines anymore.

On another note breathalyzers, another machine used by LE, are also totally inconclusive, but they will never get rid of them because dui/dwi is a multi billion dollar a year business. If you have GERD /acid reflux, copd, or a number of other health problems the test is inaccurate.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I'm reading "After Etan" right now, and the author stresses over and over that a polygraph is not a lie detector test, but rather a measure of heart rate, respiration and perspiration. Etan's father (like many others) apparently "failed" his test and he had nothing to do with Etan's disappearance.

I am not sure what I would do if I were an innocent person in Dale's position. On the one hand, I'd want to do whatever I could to get myself cleared, mostly for my own sake but also so that LE would quit wasting time and solve the mystery. On the other hand, I have heard of enough cases now to know that poor results often don't mean much but can cast a seriously ominous cloud over a person that is unwarranted and may never really go away.

Given the degree to which Dale has already been judged guilty by the public, what could a polygraph add? Can the die-hard antiDale-ites here honestly say they would change their opinions if the test concluded that he was being truthful?

In all honesty if Dale took a lie detector test and passed it, I would have to reconsider my opinions on the case. Not that i believe they are that accurate. It's the effort and willingness to prove innocence that's a key for me. IMO passing a poly would certainly be a step in the right direction....

I am not anti-Dale... I don't hate him I hate what I believe he has done.....I am all for finding the truth and for the sake of the twinners...I would like nothing more than someone OTHER than Dale to be involved...However there is a thing called common sense and thus far my common sense tells me the only one who could have pulled this off is Dale.