FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #21

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
BBM

If Dale acted alone, he had 2 vehicles to deal with--his truck and the Hummer. Taking his truck from the condo to Rose Blvd gets his truck moved, but not the Hummer. If he cons a ride back to the Condo, then he only needs a ride from near where he dropped off the Hummer to Rose Blvd where his truck is located.

I respectfully disagree about where the iPhone had to be. If Dale had an accomplice, he could have given him/her the phone for some of the time. He could have left the phone with Michelle for awhile & gone back and retrieved it. He could have given it to the kids to play with. He could have kept it turned off except for momentary checks of voicemail and/or texts. We won't know where the phone was every minute, until LE chooses to inform us.

For the first part, the question would be more for Dale's mother. What excuse could he have given to his mother to ask for a ride when he just drove his (working perfectly) car to her house. Remember, in your scenario you say that he works without an accomplice and his parents are not involved.

With regards to the cell phone, he had to have the cell phone when he dropped it off the bridge around 8pm. In your scenario, He would have had to have had it on him after 6:30pm when he last left the condo or he would have had to pick it up at his parents' house.

a) If he had it at his condo and left with it then the pings would have captured his movements all the way to the apartment complex and on the excursion to leave her body somewhere.

b) If he had left it at his parents' house, then that would have left a solid ping trail as well. And what would his parents have thought if they saw the kids playing with it?

Just as a reminder, you asked everyone to poke holes in your theory. The possibilities open up greatly when you add an accomplice. I personally don't see how it would work without one, but you may be able to adjust your theory or explain the two holes that I mentioned. Either way, it would probably help find Michelle.

If he was involved and acted alone, I think that the possibilities are very limited and therefore the places that Michelle could be is very limited as well.

If he was involved and acted with an accomplice, then obviously the accomplice's ability to move is wider but now you have two or more stories that have to match physical evidence such as witness statements.
 
I don't think missingm meant that. The original post by GrammaMaybe asked for links to support arguments against her theory. I understood missingm to mean that missingm doesn't need to provide a link for the post he/she made in response, even though GrammaMaybe asked for them.

That was exactly what I meant. Thank you.
 
I agree, I don't think he had time if planned or unplanned. Why do this on the day of the PC hearing if planned? You know LE will think it is him.

Day Light, with a camera is another thing that a planned hit would be crazy.
Doing at your own place, again crazy.
Doing this with the kids there to make it even more difficult to carry out.
Having to get rid of her hummer at your condo in the daylight, at the time people are coming home; again crazy.

Thor asked Jazzmaster to respond to this post. I'd like to add my input. Since I don't know how to divide quotes, I'll have to make multiple posts.

SPOILER ALERT: I believe Dale is guilty, which we all agree is my opinion only.

Before I retired from the therapy business, I worked with mandated clients that included convicted murderers, confessed murderers and abusers who were pulled off their victims before they succeeded in murdering them. A number of them would use Bern's logic to prove that Dale was "crazy like a fox!"

"It worked on Bern," they might say. "Bern's convinced Dale didn't do it because 'it's too crazy'!"

One thing I learned from my clients is when I assume others think like I do--I AM DEAD WRONG. That fantasy seems universal. Our internal thought life seems logical to us, so it's easy to believe others have the same internal process. Every time we say to ourselves "what were they thinking?" or "how on earth did they come to that conclusion?" we are proving the point. We expect others to think like we do and THEY DON'T! Unless you are physical abuser who has been thrown out of the Marines, likes to play dress up and think expecting court-ordered child support is theft you haven't a clue how Dale would think. By you I mean anyone, not just Bern, but me, Nobody, Jazz, Thor, the moderator, Dale's attorney or the Pope.
 
Thor asked Jazzmaster to respond to this post. I'd like to add my input. Since I don't know how to divide quotes, I'll have to make multiple posts.

SPOILER ALERT: I believe Dale is guilty, which we all agree is my opinion only.

Before I retired from the therapy business, I worked with mandated clients that included convicted murderers, confessed murderers and abusers who were pulled off their victims before they succeeded in murdering them. A number of them would use Bern's logic to prove that Dale was "crazy like a fox!"

"It worked on Bern," they might say. "Bern's convinced Dale didn't do it because 'it's too crazy'!"

One thing I learned from my clients is when I assume others think like I do--I AM DEAD WRONG. That fantasy seems universal. Our internal thought life seems logical to us, so it's easy to believe others have the same internal process. Every time we say to ourselves "what were they thinking?" or "how on earth did they come to that conclusion?" we are proving the point. We expect others to think like we do and THEY DON'T! Unless you are physical abuser who has been thrown out of the Marines, likes to play dress up and think expecting court-ordered child support is theft you haven't a clue how Dale would think. By you I mean anyone, not just Bern, but me, Nobody, Jazz, Thor, the moderator, Dale's attorney or the Pope.

I agree it's tough to get in the mind of someone: who takes a woman's head and bangs it into a railing....OR someone who breaks a car window and screams profanities at the "mother of his children" while she's holding two infants...OR someone who strands a woman in the middle of nowhere without shoes on her feet....OR someone who attacks an innocent cameraman on his way to a custody hearing...OR someone who refuses time after time to "man up" and take responsibility for what he did to Michelle. JMO Dale had plenty of time to accomplish this crime and MOST LIKELY did so with an accomplice(s) who either knowingly or unknowingly participated at various stages of this crime! Dale is NOT in this alone. Someone else either helped or knows what happened...and they are as MUCH a coward as Dale! JMO
 
GrammaMaybe, great thought provoking post! I always play Devil's Advocate when all the facts aren't in front of me. As a therapist, you'd know to not diagnose without all the facts, and without properly interviewing & assessing the patient, though...right? So that's why I get hung up. So many things could point to him when considering his past, but there's so many people missing from that area that IMO it can't be ruled out that there's a connection. We simply don't know everything. If there could be a diagnosis befitting Dale, what's the diagnosis on Michelle for running back to him all the time. If he's guilty of child abuse as others have suggested here for fighting with Michelle in front of the kids all the time, then surely Michelle could be found guilty as well for subjecting the children to it by running back all the time. IMO its a catch 22 bc everything isn't available...yet.

When I brought over the cell & antenna tower info awhile back, it shows a possibility that Dale could have had time, or that he was in possession of said cell on his way to his dad's house. I'm just one of those people that prefer facts & evidence before calling somebody a murderer, therefore I desist. No biggie if others don't relate, it's simply my preference.

As a retired therapist & in your most educated guess, and I truly understand you're not a profiler, do you have any educated opinions on where Michelle could possibly be? If Dale really is responsible, where would he have placed her? When? I'm stuck...

Also, as a retired therapist, could you please advise if a therapist can use his past in determine his present & future? I believe you can, for a diagnosis, right? Especially if there's a pathy/disorder. Would it be sociopathic or psychopathic? If a therapist can diagnose or assess utilizing a person's past, then why would a certain perp's criminal past not be admissible in court for a murder charge involving a different victim?
 
I'm just one of those people that prefer facts & evidence before calling somebody a murderer, therefore I desist. No biggie if others don't relate, it's simply my preference.

IMO there is enough evidence...even if it's circumstantial that points right back to Dale. There is nothing I have found that can lead away from Dale or rule him out and NUMEROUS things that I have seen via MSM and my own personal research that indicate he is as GUILTY as sin.

Yes he will rightfully have his time in court and a jury of his peers will have to convict him before he's "officially" labeled a murderer...BTW I hope and pray we can speed up THAT process! Until that glorious day arrives I prefer to call a spade a spade and IMO Dale is a MURDERER! All JMO
 
No DNA or evidence in hummer or his condo and I bet they checked his van and truck, again how did he do this in less than 45 minutes?




The time frame for me doesn't add up and you can't get past the Hoffner ping and him being at Sr at the same time. They need to look at someone else IMO.

Respectfully snipped by me. This is in response to a request by Thor of Jazz and I'm just butting in.

SPOILER ALERT: I believe Dale is guilty which is, of course, only my opinion.

DNA:
If Dale helped Michelle transfer the twins, DNA of both will be in both vehicles. The issue will be is it recoverable and was the transfer the only reason for it being there. Circumstances leave circumstantial evidence.

TIME FRAME:
I posted a theoretical schedule of how Dale could subdue, secure and dispose of Michelle within the allotted time WITHOUT AN ACCOMPLICE. It's post #1046 on page 42 of this thread.
 
GrammaMaybe, great thought provoking post! I always play Devil's Advocate when all the facts aren't in front of me. As a therapist, you'd know to not diagnose without all the facts, and without properly interviewing & assessing the patient, though...right? So that's why I get hung up. So many things could point to him when considering his past, but there's so many people missing from that area that IMO it can't be ruled out that there's a connection. We simply don't know everything. If there could be a diagnosis befitting Dale, what's the diagnosis on Michelle for running back to him all the time. If he's guilty of child abuse as others have suggested here for fighting with Michelle in front of the kids all the time, then surely Michelle could be found guilty as well for subjecting the children to it by running back all the time. IMO its a catch 22 bc everything isn't available...yet.

When I brought over the cell & antenna tower info awhile back, it shows a possibility that Dale could have had time, or that he was in possession of said cell on his way to his dad's house. I'm just one of those people that prefer facts & evidence before calling somebody a murderer, therefore I desist. No biggie if others don't relate, it's simply my preference.

As a retired therapist & in your most educated guess, and I truly understand you're not a profiler, do you have any educated opinions on where Michelle could possibly be? If Dale really is responsible, where would he have placed her? When? I'm stuck...

Also, as a retired therapist, could you please advise if a therapist can use his past in determine his present & future? I believe you can, for a diagnosis, right? Especially if there's a pathy/disorder. Would it be sociopathic or psychopathic? If a therapist can diagnose or assess utilizing a person's past, then why would a certain perp's criminal past not be admissible in court for a murder charge involving a different victim?

BBM....

JMO, Dale Jr is the Prime Suspect and a previously convicted abuser, having served time in Military Prison. JMO, Michelle is the innocent party here and is guilty of nothing.

As always, JMO MOO
 
Thor asked Jazzmaster to respond to this post. I'd like to add my input. Since I don't know how to divide quotes, I'll have to make multiple posts.

SPOILER ALERT: I believe Dale is guilty, which we all agree is my opinion only.

Before I retired from the therapy business, I worked with mandated clients that included convicted murderers, confessed murderers and abusers who were pulled off their victims before they succeeded in murdering them. A number of them would use Bern's logic to prove that Dale was "crazy like a fox!"

"It worked on Bern," they might say. "Bern's convinced Dale didn't do it because 'it's too crazy'!"

One thing I learned from my clients is when I assume others think like I do--I AM DEAD WRONG. That fantasy seems universal. Our internal thought life seems logical to us, so it's easy to believe others have the same internal process. Every time we say to ourselves "what were they thinking?" or "how on earth did they come to that conclusion?" we are proving the point. We expect others to think like we do and THEY DON'T! Unless you are physical abuser who has been thrown out of the Marines, likes to play dress up and think expecting court-ordered child support is theft you haven't a clue how Dale would think. By you I mean anyone, not just Bern, but me, Nobody, Jazz, Thor, the moderator, Dale's attorney or the Pope.

IMO all of us understand that people, in similar situations, may act irrationally or differently from a generic conventional wisdom, however, if one attempts a given narrative than one is bound to give it a logical flow absent evidence to the contrary, in not doing so the narrator is more then likely to run into predictable contradictions. IMO
 
IMO there is enough evidence...even if it's circumstantial that points right back to Dale. There is nothing I have found that can lead away from Dale or rule him out and NUMEROUS things that I have seen via MSM and my own personal research that indicate he is as GUILTY as sin.

Yes he will rightfully have his time in court and a jury of his peers will have to convict him before he's "officially" labeled a murderer...BTW I hope and pray we can speed up THAT process! Until that glorious day arrives I prefer to call a spade a spade and IMO Dale is a MURDERER! All JMO

Waitasc Jazz. Please don't misconstrue my words. I never once said there's no circumstantial evidence. I simply said there's no evidence that points to a MURDER, let alone points to him being a murderer. Even the OPD are smart enough NOT to say that without the proper evidence to back it up. The reason is bc they can't subject themselves to a frivolous liability, a lawsuit. The OPD informs "suspect in disappearance", they don't say "suspect in murder". I believe they're looking for a body - be it alive or dead - for more concrete evidence.
 
IMO all of us understand that people, in similar situations, may act irrationally or differently from a generic conventional wisdom, however, if one attempts a given narrative than one is bound to give it a logical flow absent evidence to the contrary, in not doing so the narrator is more then likely to run into predictable contradictions. IMO

Totally agree Thor! We have the disadvantage of trying to figure out how a psychopath pulled this crime off. Unless one of us is a psychopath and can truly understand how Dale thinks, you are correct it will be difficult to figure out his EXACT steps but think we can get pretty close.

I believe people often become predictable. Dale for example fails over and over, abuses women over and over, gets in trouble with the law over and over...has problems with his temper and drinking and drugs over and over....So I believe in his patterns lie clues...

We are all creatures of habit. If a normal rational person committed a crime you would probably have someone acting irrationally. Dale, however, is a life long criminal so I believe his steps were carefully planned and executed...now we have the task of trying to figure out where he hid Michelle... All JMO
 
Waitasc Jazz. Please don't misconstrue my words. I never once said there's no circumstantial evidence. I simply said there's no evidence that points to a MURDER, let alone points to him being a murderer. Even the OPD are smart enough NOT to say that without the proper evidence to back it up. The reason is bc they can't subject themselves to a frivolous liability, a lawsuit. The OPD informs "suspect in disappearance", they don't say "suspect in murder". I believe they're looking for a body - be it alive or dead - for more concrete evidence.

I understand what you're saying...however I do NOT think there is any evidence to support Michelle being alive UNFORTUNATELY and the last place she was seen or heard from was at Dale's so if you connect the dots IMO it's not too difficult to figure out WHAT Dale did....How he's gotten away with it for SO long is the ONLY mystery to me... JMO
 
BBM....

JMO, Dale Jr is the Prime Suspect and a previously convicted abuser, having served time in Military Prison. JMO, Michelle is the innocent party here and is guilty of nothing.

As always, JMO MOO

WhatsThatClue, I agree with you...however I'm confused why you mentioned Michelle is the victim - we all know she's the victim here. What I've stated is a blatant fact. Literally. There are 2 parents that fight in front of their children. Two. If Michelle left & didn't go back, then that'd be great & there probably wouldn't have been any issues following bc it would have been nipped in the budd. However, that scenario didn't happen. If there are parents that fight in front of their children with one leaving but always running back, then a person can't just say that only 1 parent is guilty of child abuse in that context, bc in a court of law both would be reprimanded. That's all I'm saying. I'm certainly not making her any less a victim.
 
Hi GrammaMaybe! The 4:26 ping was picked up in the Hoffner area. There is a cell tower directly off of Hoffner, so that's the nearest tower for the 4:26 one, therefore it would have pinged off of that tower. I supplied a link to the 4 cell towers in the immediate Oak Ridge area in this thread maybe 10-15 pages back? I'll try to find where it was & give you the link. Also, that link that shows the 4 main cell towers also provides all the antenna towers in that area as well. Antenna towers are used to boost the cell towers reception. They can all be found at Orlando's City-Data link here:

http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Orlando-Florida.html

BBM

There has been nothing stated to indicate that the 4:26pm text was definitely in the Hoffner area. It has been speculated on based on YS comments but we can not say as fact that it was there.

MOO
 
WhatsThatClue, I agree with you...however I'm confused why you mentioned Michelle is the victim - we all know she's the victim here. What I've stated is a blatant fact. Literally. There are 2 parents that fight in front of their children. Two. If Michelle left & didn't go back, then that'd be great & there probably wouldn't have been any issues following bc it would have been nipped in the budd. However, that scenario didn't happen. If there are parents that fight in front of their children with one leaving but always running back, then a person can't just say that only 1 parent is guilty of child abuse in that context, bc in a court of law both would be reprimanded. That's all I'm saying. I'm certainly not making her any less a victim.

TY. I understand your explanation but I stand by my statement. With one exception--IMO the only thing Michelle is guilty of is falling in love with the wrong guy, the Prime Suspect.


As always, JMO
 
WhatsThatClue, I agree with you...however I'm confused why you mentioned Michelle is the victim - we all know she's the victim here. What I've stated is a blatant fact. Literally. There are 2 parents that fight in front of their children. Two. If Michelle left & didn't go back, then that'd be great & there probably wouldn't have been any issues following bc it would have been nipped in the budd. However, that scenario didn't happen. If there are parents that fight in front of their children with one leaving but always running back, then a person can't just say that only 1 parent is guilty of child abuse in that context, bc in a court of law both would be reprimanded. That's all I'm saying. I'm certainly not making her any less a victim.

But she does not have any choice but to remain in contact with the father of her children. She did what she could by trying to bring him into court for the assaults, but it was apparently dismissed by the courts. So what can she do about it after that? You cannot just walk away from the father of your kids even if he is being abusive.
 
In my opinion, the fact that the Hummer was recorded on video leaving the condo complex WITHOUT THE GLOW STICKER indicates that Michelle lost control of her life, iPhone and Hummer in that complex.
 
Totally agree Thor! We have the disadvantage of trying to figure out how a psychopath pulled this crime off. Unless one of us is a psychopath and can truly understand how Dale thinks, you are correct it will be difficult to figure out his EXACT steps but think we can get pretty close.

I believe people often become predictable. Dale for example fails over and over, abuses women over and over, gets in trouble with the law over and over...has problems with his temper and drinking and drugs over and over....So I believe in his patterns lie clues...

We are all creatures of habit. If a normal rational person committed a crime you would probably have someone acting irrationally. Dale, however, is a life long criminal so I believe his steps were carefully planned and executed...now we have the task of trying to figure out where he hid Michelle... All JMO

Speaking strictly for myself I think it's a mistake having theories chasing a single suspect, however guilty one might feel he/she is. I think it's much more pertinent to look at a map and try to figure out where Michelle might be (as you have done on occasions) following the train of thoughts of any perp, within known circumstances and under established facts.
 
Speaking strictly for myself I think it's a mistake having theories chasing a single suspect, however guilty one might feel he/she is. I think it's much more pertinent to look at a map and try to figure out where Michelle might be (as you have done on occasions) following the train of thoughts of any perp, within known circumstances and under established facts.

Thanks Thor but IMO unless and until other evidence is released by the authorities implicating someone else, we cannot sleuth anyone but the Prime Suspect. Looking at other suspects is a job for LE, not us.

And yes, those of us who have joined in searches have tried to pinpoint exactly where Michelle might be from the facts given us.

As always, JMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
55
Guests online
2,240
Total visitors
2,295

Forum statistics

Threads
601,855
Messages
18,130,768
Members
231,162
Latest member
Kaffro
Back
Top