FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

[Jazzmaster]

If the implication is that there is somehow a correlation between a statement under oath by Sr. to the police and the finding of the iphone, then the question must be asked what is it exactly? Why a statement under oath of Sr. would lead to the finding of the iphone? Can someone come up with a theory where such a correlation can be made and what would be the circumstances of it? Or is it yet another example that "if the dog barks and then it rains, then the dog made it rain"?

And isn't true that Sr. was under no legal obligations to give the police any statements, either under oath or otherwise but nevertheless did so as did DS? And what can be inferred by that as well in the context of the phone being found?

I assume being supeonaed kinda puts you under a legal obligation to answer questions under oath? JMO

 

[Thor]

See that's what I told her...I was thinking the same thing, but then she brought up the OJ case and how the family sued OJ and won despite his acquittal and that's where I got confused...maybe because at least the OJ case first went to trial?

Yes Jazz, that is exactly the reason, the OJ civil litigation took place after the trial and where the evidence was a matter of public record, not to mention where there was no longer a criminal jeopardy on the part of OJ. JMO but not really.really with sugar on top since I have read a mountain of constitutional law in my life. In any case, you can do the research yourself I suppose since it is readily available everywhere and as I said, I'm not an attorney and one may be more informative on the subject.

Addendum: My statement here on the 5th amendment is incorrect.

 

[Thor]

I assume being supeonaed kinda puts you under a legal obligation to answer questions under oath? JMO

Correct again, there is no 5th amendment protection under a civil litigation, defendants must answer questions truthfully and under jeopardy of perjury and where evidentiary and other rules may be different from a criminal proceeding . JMO


Addendum: My statement here on the 5th amendment is incorrect.

 

[Thor]

I need to clarify my previous statements on the 5th amendment, my comments were strictly based on the example of a a civil suit preceding a criminal one where the two are strictly related and the constitutional issues involved there , but I was demonstrably incorrect on the 5th amendment since the availability of the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination does not depend on the type of proceeding. So I apologize for my statement here. In any case Jazz, you can go here for more. The issue here is of course complex as most constitutional issues are, and in the particular issue of DS potentially being sued here on a wrongful death allegation is mute from a practical standpoint since DS could and would invoke his 5th amendment privileges as well as others on such a comprehensive scale that would render a civil action impossible from a practical point of view as well as legal one, (sounds like an excuse on my part and it probably is), however my statement on the 5th amendment as it applies only to criminal proceedings was totally inaccurate and I regret it sincerely. I don't take me making such monumental gaffes lightly, of course I have a fever right now and I'm under heavy medications (really) .... oh boy ... here was another excuse I would never have allowed my students to make no matter what. JMO

 

[Jazzmaster]

I need to clarify my previous statements on the 5th amendment, my comments were strictly based on the example of a a civil suit preceding a criminal one where the two are strictly related and the constitutional issues involved there , but I was demonstrably incorrect on the 5th amendment since the availability of the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination does not depend on the type of proceeding. So I apologize for my statement here. In any case Jazz, you can go here for more. The issue here is of course complex as most constitutional issues are, and in the particular issue of DS potentially being sued here on a wrongful death allegation is mute from a practical standpoint since DS could and would invoke his 5th amendment privileges as well as others on such a comprehensive scale that would render a civil action impossible from a practical point of view as well as legal one, (sounds like an excuse on my part and it probably is), however my statement on the 5th amendment as it applies only to criminal proceedings was totally inaccurate and I regret it sincerely. I don't take me making such monumental gaffes lightly, of course I have a fever right now and I'm under heavy medications (really) .... oh boy ... here was another excuse I would never have allowed my students to make no matter what. JMO

We are all human and make mistakes. I know I make them once in a while . Admitting when you do shows character. I admire your honesty....you are a good egg Thor

 

[Pias]

In reviewing a timeline on this case, I see it could be possible that someone was listening to a police band radio. Does the dept have an online radio band? While I don't have any idea how helpful that it could be, it is just a possibility and potentially worth considering.

 

[Pias]

After TPC, in the after interview in the hall, Dale mentions Michelle having left him a text message the day before and indicates what the text said. I wonder if LE ever requested that potential info to check for accuracy.

Though this has been brought up before, in so many words, his body language and eyes, during that post interview, and language "it's done," seem to indicate a momentary processing of thought and future intent. That cannot be denied due to the content of the conversation. What cannot be confirmed is the meaning which may have accompanied it.

If it is true, as Michelle asserted, that Dale had yelled at her: Your day is coming!, then that would indicate his thoughts had already drifted into a direction in his mind.

When you follow that up with the next time they are in court together, TPC, IMO, I can't help but think that things you 'do' get 'done.' JMO.

 

[What'sThatClue]

In reviewing a timeline on this case, I see it could be possible that someone was listening to a police band radio. Does the dept have an online radio band? While I don't have any idea how helpful that it could be, it is just a possibility and potentially worth considering.

Yes, I believe they do. Listen online:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?ctid=363

 

[Jazzmaster]

Since Dale and family seem to get arrested so often...I betcha they invested in a police scanner or two. Sr probably needs one to know when LE is coming over to snatch his crops...

 

[Thor]

After TPC, in the after interview in the hall, Dale mentions Michelle having left him a text message the day before and indicates what the text said. I wonder if LE ever requested that potential info to check for accuracy.

Though this has been brought up before, in so many words, his body language and eyes, during that post interview, and language "it's done," seem to indicate a momentary processing of thought and future intent. That cannot be denied due to the content of the conversation. What cannot be confirmed is the meaning which may have accompanied it.

If it is true, as Michelle asserted, that Dale had yelled at her: Your day is coming!, then that would indicate his thoughts had already drifted into a direction in his mind.

When you follow that up with the next time they are in court together, TPC, IMO, I can't help but think that things you 'do' get 'done.' JMO.

Do we really need to read eyes, thoughts and overall facial expressions? Dale and Michelle had a tumultuous relationship, they fought, argued, and otherwise had what it can only be described as a very juvenile relationship and to have proof of it one needs only to think of their regrettable performance in the PC episode in the context of their actual age and the fact that they shared two beautiful children together. Therefore it should come to no one's surprise the verbal assaults that must have gone on throughout their relationship as it is so common in these situations; To then jumping to murder because of this alleged sentence or the other (and there must have been quite a lot of those) is to me several steps too far, although one can imagine how things can potentially go from the immature and confrontational to the tragic. JMO

 

[Thor]

Since Dale and family seem to get arrested so often...I betcha they invested in a police scanner or two. Sr probably needs one to know when LE is coming over to snatch his crops...

Jazz LOL, he did not have crops of that stuff did he? I believe he had an unspecified number of plants for personal use and not a large scale crop which indicates major growing with intent to produce, distribute and sell ... and I hope the police are not gonna raid college dorms next ... JMO ... and a number of students as well I suppose

 

[What'sThatClue]

Do we really need to read eyes, thoughts and overall facial expressions? Dale and Michelle had a tumultuous relationship, they fought, argued, and otherwise had what it can only be described as a very juvenile relationship and to have proof of it one needs only to think of their regrettable performance in the PC episode in the context of their actual age and the fact that they shared two beautiful children together. Therefore it should come to no one's surprise the verbal assaults that must have gone on throughout their relationship as it is so common in these situations; To then jumping to murder because of this alleged sentence or the other (and there must have been quite a lot of those) is to me several steps too far, although one can imagine how things can potentially go from the immature and confrontational to the tragic. JMO

BBM

Uh, yeah, we do. This, plus his background, gives us valuable insight into his attitude and character. Or lack of it.

JMO

 

[Thor]

BBM

Uh, yeah, we do. This, plus his background, gives us valuable insight into his attitude and character. Or lack of it.

JMO

If the issue is character, mind reading, past behavior and such, I can see how DS is guilty of being a cad and on that I guess we both agree.

 

[Pias]

To quote a saying used here. The dog barked and it rained.

Does that mean it rained cuz the dog barked?

Just because Sr was only caught with a few plants, one can no more say he does NOT grow to distribute, anymore than one can say he does.

Is it not equally possible, that at the time he was raided, he only had a few plants?

Either that or the dog does make it rain when he barks.

 

[What'sThatClue]

Jazz LOL, he did not have crops of that stuff did he? I believe he had an unspecified number of plants for personal use and not a large scale crop which indicates major growing with intent to produce, distribute and sell ... and I hope the police are not gonna raid college dorms next ... JMO ... and a number of students as well I suppose

I don't remember exactly what he had but it was a Criminal Felony. Note what the charges include:

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/default.aspx
Criminal Felony

SELL/MANUFACTURE/DELIVER CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE
POSSESSION OF CANNABIS <20 GRAMS
POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA

 

[missingm]

You have a copy of Dale's phone records? Were there any incoming calls between 4:30 and 7:30pm? TIA.

No, but I am not the one trying to say that he could not be reached. :banghead:

 

[What'sThatClue]

If the issue is character, mind reading, past behavior and such, I can see how DS is guilty of being a cad and on that I guess we both agree.

Well, only if "past behavior" of being a cad gets you time in Military Prison. :jail:

JMO

 

[Thor]

To quote a saying used here. The dog barked and it rained.

Does that mean it rained cuz the dog barked?

Just because Sr was only caught with a few plants, one can no more say he does NOT grow to distribute, anymore than one can say he does.

Is it not equally possible, that at the time he was raided, he only had a few plants?

Either that or the dog does make it rain when he barks.

If Sr. had been caught with an amount large enough to be considered possession with intent to sell that being a legal term not an opinion, I think it would have been major news IMO but yes you're right that we don't know really and I would applaud :clap: your pointing out the facts and their relationship to the conclusions, and I'm sure you would apply the same standard to everything else in the overall matter discussed in this thread. I'm not sure where the dog and the rain analogy applies here though.

 

[Thor]

Well, only if "past behavior" of being a cad gets you time in Military Prison. :jail:

JMO

Ok we agree that he's guilty of being a cad and on the fact he spent time in military confinement.

 

[What'sThatClue]

If Sr. had been caught with an amount large enough to be considered possession with intent to sell that being a legal term not an opinion, I think it would have been major news IMO but yes you're right that we don't know really and I would applaud :clap: your pointing out the facts and their relationship to the conclusions, and I'm sure you would apply the same standard to everything else in the overall matter discussed in this thread. I'm not sure where the dog and the rain analogy applies here though.

It was big news.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...g-charges-impact-custody-grams-and-possession


JMO