FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[cluciano63]

What I mean is, not knowing if a long-distance trucker took her, vs. a new local man she had recently met makes a big difference in where she could be. A POI who had someplace to be later, and was, allows for a certain distance, while the other, the trucker, has a whole path of highways and byways where he could have stopped off. Just as her ex could only have gone so far and back between times he has a alibi.

 

[Thor]

What I mean is, not knowing if a long-distance trucker took her, vs. a new local man she had recently met makes a big difference in where she could be. A POI who had someplace to be later, and was, allows for a certain distance, while the other, the trucker, has a whole path of highways and byways where he could have stopped off. Just as her ex could only have gone so far and back between times he has a alibi.

That is true, but in the scheme of things how likely is it that it was a random abduction? Why would a complete stranger move the Hummer to Walden Circle? Why there and not somewhere else? If there's one true indication that DS might have been involved here is that the hummer was found there and, why would that someone remove the keys from the ignition? As another poster (can't remember who) pointed out here before in one occasion, quite brilliantly I might add, wouldn't that fact betray an emotional attachment to the vehicle which led the perp to instinctively remove the keys? ... Safeguard the vehicle from being easily stolen? And if you are a random perp wouldn't you want the car to be stolen and thus throw off the police from your scent? Wouldn't you want the Hummer to hopefully disappear like Michelle herself? Unless of course she stops somewhere in the apartment complex at Walden Circle to meet someone there to never return, which in turn would explains why there are no car keys in the Hummer and the vehicle is found "clean" ... What if she was led there? But then again why is her purse found inside the vehicle? Why would someone she met at the apartment complex return the purse inside the Hummer? Is it because this perp wanted to make it look like that car was "dumped" there and not simply parked there by Michelle herself on her way to one of the apartments nearby? Or did the purse never leave the Hummer? And surely the perp went to the trouble to remove the decals in order to delay discovery of the Hummer or to minimize his/her/their own detection or both and that is either before or after having had disposed of the body.

As one thinks about it, clearly one stumbles in more then one contradiction, and that is IMO because the perp made a deliberate effort to rearrange evidence to deflect and confuse investigators and quite successfully so I might add, and of that there can be very little doubt IMO.

Clearly whatever happens to Michele happens in the triangular location that is her house, DS's condo and the apartment complex at Walden Circle and IMO she's within that geographical area or not far from it, and to find her in this case one needs not so much hypothesis, motive or even opportunity but one needs to find that particular thread the connects all the dots within a factual, demonstrable and evidentiary narrative that will lead to one inescapable conclusion behind a reasonable doubt and not with the usual "could have", "would have", "might have" and such which are useful to find leads but not to prove by themselves culpability absent factual corroborations. Detective work is not about finding people guilty but to gather evidence to possibly prove people guilty if foul play becomes evident, a substantial and not so subtle distinction IMO. That is why finding Michelle is the key to solving this mystery not to mention to finally bring her home

 

[Skully]

That is true, but in the scheme of things how likely is it that it was a random abduction? Why would a complete stranger move the Hummer to Walden Circle? Why there and not somewhere else? If there's one true indication that DS might have been involved here is that the hummer was found there and, why would that someone remove the keys from the ignition? As another poster (can't remember who) pointed out here before in one occasion, quite brilliantly I might add, wouldn't that fact betray an emotional attachment to the vehicle which led the perp to instinctively remove the keys? ... Safeguard the vehicle from being easily stolen? And if you are a random perp wouldn't you want the car to be stolen and thus throw off the police from your scent? Wouldn't you want the Hummer to hopefully disappear like Michelle herself? Unless of course she stops somewhere in the apartment complex at Walden Circle to meet someone there to never return, which in turn would explains why there are no car keys in the Hummer and the vehicle is found "clean" ... What if she was led there? But then again why is her purse found inside the vehicle? Why would someone she met at the apartment complex return the purse inside the Hummer? Is it because this perp wanted to make it look like that car was "dumped" there and not simply parked there by Michelle herself on her way to one of the apartments nearby? Or did the purse never leave the Hummer? And surely the perp went to the trouble to remove the decals in order to delay discovery of the Hummer or to minimize his/her/their own detection or both and that is either before or after having had disposed of the body.

As one thinks about it, clearly one stumbles in more then one contradiction, and that is IMO because the perp made a deliberate effort to rearrange evidence to deflect and confuse investigators and quite successfully so I might add, and of that there can be very little doubt IMO.

Clearly whatever happens to Michele happens in the triangular location that is her house, DS's condo and the apartment complex at Walden Circle and IMO she's within that geographical area or not far from it, and to find her in this case one needs not so much hypothesis, motive or even opportunity but one needs to find that particular thread the connects all the dots within a factual, demonstrable and evidentiary narrative that will lead to one inescapable conclusion behind a reasonable doubt and not with the usual "could have", "would have", "might have" and such which are useful to find leads but not to prove by themselves culpability absent factual corroborations. Detective work is not about finding people guilty but to gather evidence to possibly prove people guilty if foul play becomes evident, a substantial and not so subtle distinction IMO. That is why finding Michelle is the key to solving this mystery not to mention to finally bring her home

IYO, do you think the body was disposed of before the hummer? As you know we have gone over the timeline down to the minute, and in order for all the things to have taken place in that time frame, I feel the killer had to have had help. We are once again back to when things took place and why is there no evidence that can put anyone behind bars. Logic tells us she is within that triangle of points; but what order of events did this take place. I am constantly reminded that it was daylight, near high traffic areas, cameras, earshot of neighbors, not to mention the twins being present and of course you make yourself the prime suspect being the last person know to have seen her alive. I agree, things point in a very specific direction, so how did it all unfold IYO. Thank you

 

[Thor]

IYO, do you think the body was disposed of before the hummer? As you know we have gone over the timeline down to the minute, and in order for all the things to have taken place in that time frame, I feel the killer had to have had help. We are once again back to when things took place and why is there no evidence that can put anyone behind bars. Logic tells us she is within that triangle of points; but what order of events did this take place. I am constantly reminded that it was daylight, near high traffic areas, cameras, earshot of neighbors, not to mention the twins being present and of course you make yourself the prime suspect being the last person know to have seen her alive. I agree, things point in a very specific direction, so how did it all unfold IYO. Thank you

That is the one billion dollar question isn't it? One answers this one factually and one solves the riddle clearly.

So again it's useful to look at the facts dispassionately not to convict or to absolve, that is beside the point, but to test the theory insofar of what can be proven or at least conceptualized in order to find a location where Michelle might be, having concluded like me, that there's simply not enough evidence (if at all) to allege foul play at the condo much less successfully conclude a prosecution. We are for the sake of this exercise assuming it is true that Michelle is incapacitated and/or killed at the condo (notwithstanding the myriad of objections one can easily raise under this scenario) because they are not at odds with the exercise itself.

So, if Michelle gets to DS, is somehow abducted, killed, whatever, what happens next? And what are the circumstances in which everything unfolds under this theory? Please note that I'm not even going to attempt to establish a theory where this is planned in advance since there is a limit to theorizing about events which has to be at least at the doorsteps of the Twilight Zone since it would border on the surreal that DS actually planned to kill Michelle around 4pm when she's dropping off his own kids at his own condo, if one believes that to be possible then ... whatever ... I'm not going to go there and I just assume he acted alone and in the spur of the moment, at least initially.

So, what are the circumstances in which everything unfolds under this theory? They are as follows:

1. Michelle is at his condo, unconscious, incapacitated, dead or otherwise incapable to exercise her free will.

2. Her twin children are at the scene. They are unaware of what has just transpired, but they can very well become aware of it in part or in whole soon enough giving what must have been an extremely fluid situation that can scarcely be controlled under the circumstances present at the time.

3. Michelle's Hummer is parked outside.

4. There are activities outside of the condo, since it is around 4pm people are on and about, coming and going, all of them potential witnesses.


So, what does DS need to do under these circumstances?

1. Evidence, must be ascertained and neutralized, and that must include Michelle herself.

2. Since an actual alibi is not possible, a plausible narrative must be created in order to explain away events that can be damaging and/or incriminating. DS does not need an alibi of course, he needs reasonable doubt, and he needs to leave no evidence behind; Where both of those are true, he would then get away with murder notwithstanding the obligatory suspicions and the loss of any popularity context, both of which he can live with just fine.

3. Enlist help if at all possible, that being a huge wild card, exposing himself and his deeds to outside sources he can hardly control and having to talk someone into being an accessory to murder without being able to give valid reasons or benefits for doing so ... in other words he needs to find someone as degenerate, reckless and incredibly callous as he is that happens to be willing to help ... he needs to be a master manipulator. Easier said then done IMO especially considering that that would afflict him with something no one ever has accused him of, judging by the way he's conducted his life leading to this very moment, that one thing being an oversized level of intelligence.

So, what doe he do actually?

He takes the twins to his parent's, that much is a matter of record, what it's not a matter of record is whether he stashes Michelle inside the van before or after he delivers the twins? To me its a bit preposterous and insanely creepy the before theory, not to mention unnecessarily risky, so let's say he returns to the condo where the cover up part begins to take shape.

From there is a matter of getting rid of both the Hummer and Michelle, create plausible deniability all the while performing the obligatory dance of avoiding potential witnesses to the degree possible. He therefore sets a tentative windows of about 3 hours to do so ...

... the rest is history and everybody has an opinion, and one can be easily sidetracked from the real issues by trying to prove a theory just like the one above which cannot possibly be proven if it's true that there is no actual evidence to support any of it, a fact that IMO should be clear to anyone by now at least.

However since the real task is IMO to find Michelle, then where does DS hides Michelle in the 3 following hours assuming above is more of less what actually happened?

From 5pm to 8pm he must find a good hiding place (and clearly finds it). He must come back to the Hummer to ditch it or to move it, or must come back to the van after ditching the Hummer. In any case he must position the Hummer as far as possible from the scene of the crime, Walden court as it happens, some 8miles from his condo if I remember correctly, not that far because he does not have much time, or he must presume not to for at any time he can be detected ... the clock is ticking ... tick ... tick ... tick ... there is pressure, he might not have a shovel, he might not have enough time ... tick ... tick ... tick ... those are not the circumstances where you find an ideal hiding place ... tick ... tick ... tick ... a drainage dump perhaps? Some men made structure with plenty of hollow spaces? An abandoned warehouse? A public storage place? Thick ... thick .. thick ... ... one gets the picture here.

Wherever Michelle is today can't be that far away from the crime scene IMO assuming DS is guilty and assuming no one helped him to conceal the crime. One would hope there are enough people to search the paths taken but each and every theory and I know that is a monumental task but a necessary one in my opinion, however I'm of the mind (although I've been wrong many times before) that unless Michelle is found this case will never be solved ... so ...

... where is Michelle? Any ideas?

 

[Skully]

Thank you for the detailed response. I think we and many others have at least pondered some of the very thoughts you have presented here. I think that LE is either missing a really big clue or they have the wrong POI. So if you think LE is correct then we have to ponder WHAT ARE WE MISSING other than Michelle?

One person could incapacitate a person and kill them, possibly leaving no DNA. This is possible, given the right circumstances. So let's say he acted alone as far as killing her. Let's say it was an act of rage, not planned, but at any rate, he kills her and the kids are there.

Now what? He has to figure out what to do with the kids, Michelle,a hummer, avoid being seen or detected by family, clean up of any evidence, and get an alibi. Where do you start? Well, for me if I could trust anyone, it would be family.

 

[Skully]

You would have to be in shock, you just killed a person in your home, with the kids present. Are they crying at this point? You have to get them and the situation under control. So who do you call? Who is home who can get the kids, help you move a body or at least transport it and get rid of a hummer, one that is big, black and has huge advertisemts on it.

I would start with calling mom and dad. I would ask if they could pick up the kids. So can a vehicle come into that complex without going in the front? We know you can go out the back and avoid cameras, but can you come in that way? Or is this even a problem? Can you come in (no complex camera) but go around to another street to avoid the camera that Michelle is on? If not, then the children were taken to the parents house, but in his van or his truck. The hummer most likely is in the garage. You also have to have the presence of mind to know that the cell will give you away, so you have to turn it off or do something with it so it ends up pinging (where?). Not with you at mom and dads, that is bad.

 

[Thor]

Thank you for the detailed response. I think we and many others have at least pondered some of the very thoughts you have presented here. I think that LE is either missing a really big clue or they have the wrong POI. So if you think LE is correct then we have to ponder WHAT ARE WE MISSING other than Michelle?

One person could incapacitate a person and kill them, possibly leaving no DNA. This is possible, given the right circumstances. So let's say he acted alone as far as killing her. Let's say it was an act of rage, not planned, but at any rate, he kills her and the kids are there.

Now what? He has to figure out what to do with the kids, Michelle,a hummer, avoid being seen or detected by family, clean up of any evidence, and get an alibi. Where do you start? Well, for me if I could trust anyone, it would be family.

Skully, to me the bottom line is that by this time if no one's been charged with Michelle disappearance no one is likely to be in the future ... unless ... someone comes forward with new information that can change that (and it's entirely possible that someone out there does have it) or that Michelle is found either as a result of a search or by chance. IMO it's not reasonable to believe that some new evidence will come to light when none were there before that would allow the DA to issue an indictment, or at the very least there's no indication of it I can gather from anywhere although one can always hope certainly.

Now if you do read through all the threads on Michelle here (and there are many) you would find that there are many theories about what happened to Michelle, many theories about the prime suspect (DS) many theories about where she might be, many theories that are as valid as mine and perhaps even more so, and each one of them share one single hope that is to find out what happened to Michelle and that the perp(s) is brought to justice even when one disagrees on how to get there, who might be responsible or both.

For my part I can only reiterate that, at least at this point, it's inconsequential whether DS did it or not, or someone other the him is responsible because clearly the evidence is not there to prosecute regardless, so the most important task for us IMO is to find clues, ideas, guesses about where Michelle might be in the hope that she'll be found sooner rather then later. So again, if DS did it where is it likely that he hid the body? My last few posts here have dealt primarily with that, plus a host of other ideas having to do with organizing possible searches, enlist volunteers, coordinate efforts and so on.

It's frustrating for me that I can't do more and I believe many others here and elsewhere feel the same way, I'm not used to concern myself with this kind of issues but I stumbled on this site by chance and I simply got involved with this one case for whatever reason, perhaps because I myself have a young daughter now and I could in a minute way find a window where through it I could see the horror of what it could mean to loose a child, a son, a daughter anyone I love ... I believe it's called empathy although quite honestly I also ask myself if there's also an element of voyeurism for me, the kind people might feel when looking at a train wreck ... I don't know, I'm not sure, I hope not, it makes me feel uneasy regardless because I know I'm not as good a person I'd like to believe I am or that at least I could be.

Anyway this is surely not about me, you or anybody else other then Michelle, so I need to repeat ... where is Michelle today? There's a $5,000 reward for any concrete information about the MP disappearance which can be reported even anonymously by calling the Crimeline at 800-423-TIPS. If one doesn't need the money there's still a more valuable reward that comes with the satisfaction of knowing that one has acted decently and humanly.

If anyone needs more detailed information they can also visit the Michelle Parker official Facebook page here.

 

[Skully]

Thor,

I get it, I see and hear your frustration about how to locate Michelle. I have seen cases solved yrs later without the new evidence they needed, but by going over things and it jars a memory or a they get a light bulb moment or they simply re interview the POI and they get tripped up. As long as I have read here, I have always had a problem with the tight timeline and lack of evidence of a crime (like DNA, blood, struggle) and even one person seeing or hearing something, and nothing on a traffic camera. How is that possible? So I try to be the perp, what would I be thinking, who would I turn too because the devil is in the details. If I think it was a stranger, I look in a very different place, if it is family you have to look at it again differently. I am still not 100% convinced of DS guilt or innocence. But I try on different theories.

If he had help from family, and if they could get past that video and back out, I think she would be disposed of first and then the hummer. If that is the case, the phone is the red herring. It draws you to the wrong end of town. If the hummer sits at the parking lot near the mall, then I would be looking NW of that area, and not in water. I have reasons for these thoughts. But I agree that crimes don't happen in a vacuum, someone always knows what happened and sometimes you luck out and they come forward.

 

[Skully]

Just as a side note, me and my husband travel a certain highway, dozens of times a yr, from our home to Tampa. Can't tell you how many times we sat in traffic and I just look out at the side of the grassy berm of the road. There were trees that were on the border of the grassy area that edged the highway. Well guess what, there was young girl missing for 3 yrs, and someone got a flat tie and stopped on that grassy area to wait for AAA. The man just walked a few feet up towards the trees and found her. She had been there all the time, just waiting for someone to notice. She was not buried or hidden under the trees, just there, in the grass, just at the border. So things and people go unnoticed all the time. Just a thought.

 

[Thor]

Thor,

I get it, I see and hear your frustration about how to locate Michelle. I have seen cases solved yrs later without the new evidence they needed, but by going over things and it jars a memory or a they get a light bulb moment or they simply re interview the POI and they get tripped up. As long as I have read here, I have always had a problem with the tight timeline and lack of evidence of a crime (like DNA, blood, struggle) and even one person seeing or hearing something, and nothing on a traffic camera. How is that possible? So I try to be the perp, what would I be thinking, who would I turn too because the devil is in the details. If I think it was a stranger, I look in a very different place, if it is family you have to look at it again differently. I am still not 100% convinced of DS guilt or innocence. But I try on different theories.

If he had help from family, and if they could get past that video and back out, I think she would be disposed of first and then the hummer. If that is the case, the phone is the red herring. It draws you to the wrong end of town. If the hummer sits at the parking lot near the mall, then I would be looking NW of that area, and not in water. I have reasons for these thoughts. But I agree that crimes don't happen in a vacuum, someone always knows what happened and sometimes you luck out and they come forward.

If Ds is guilty, IMO he gets rid of the hummer first, his van can be explained away in the driveway or away from it, the Hummer is another story, he can't allow it to sit there for an extended period of time right in the middle of Michelle disappearance where the narrative must be that she dropped off the twins and left, any more involved then that and then the questions would be: why did she stay so long? What did you discuss? Was there an altercation? Did she really leave? and so on ... too close for comfort, too many questions, puts a jury in a situation to reasonably wonder, a chance to overcome reasonable doubt which would exist if there's no evidence to contradict the simple narrative of she dropped off the kids and left (divorced people especially can understand this all too well), if one then adds that there are no forensic or any other evidence to contradict that particular account he then has an unassailable position from which to convince a jury that it's not just a question of reasonable doubt, but that there is in fact no indication of foul play at the condo at all, and he simply walks permanently. In any case, If he's guilty and if he played it this well, there is no chance an allegation of guilt would be made without any forensic available at the condo, without a single eyewitness, without anything factual that may demonstrate directly (to the alleged crime scene) at least the possibility of foul play at Dale's, and even if the DA attempted it (something to be excluded categorically), I would bet any Judge would throw it out of court even before it'd get to a Grand Jury.

As a further note, it's also possible that he disposed of both Michelle and the Hummer at the same time, or the he parks the Hummer in the garage, however parking the Hummer in the garage is very dangerous, someone sees him an then it can't possibly explain it and he's guilty, period ... but who knows ... the important question is where does he take Michelle?

 

[Skully]

Michelle arrived at 3:18 that is daylight for sure, but are people coming home from work? School perhaps, but I don't know if that Condo is really that packed with school kids milling around at that time of day. So most people come come around 5:30 or 6pm. I am going with that just for the sake of theory of "why no witnesses". So let's say the stars line up and no one is around when she arrives at his condo and she parks around the corner of that condo. If Dale enlisted help from family, I would bet more than one person came over and that one of them, took Dale's truck and took the kids back to the house; not Dale. I would bet he put the hummer in the garage for a short time, like minutes; only to put Michelle in it, and remove stickers. At this point he has to dump a body, and park the hummer and someone has to meet him somewhere to pick him up and take him back to parents home. Once there, you pick up kids, travel towards condo, toss out phone and hit FB. Of course there are many details and minutes to fill in, and lots of other things to explain, but if you sat down, (not you ) I bet you could make this work. As far as an IW as to seeing him there, what if they just thought they saw him, but it was some other male bringing home the kids in his truck? I do agree, I don't see anyone getting arrested any time soon, because of lack of proof. I don't see anyone coming forward either, because of the relationship to people who know and family and well you get it. But I could see a person cutting a deal down the road because they over heard or heard a story in a bar and they had information. So I guess we have to wait. So sorry for the family, it is a long, heartbreaking wait for them.

 

[Thor]

Michelle arrived at 3:18 that is daylight for sure, but are people coming home from work? School perhaps, but I don't know if that Condo is really that packed with school kids milling around at that time of day. So most people come come around 5:30 or 6pm. I am going with that just for the sake of theory of "why no witnesses". So let's say the stars line up and no one is around when she arrives at his condo and she parks around the corner of that condo. If Dale enlisted help from family, I would bet more than one person came over and that one of them, took Dale's truck and took the kids back to the house; not Dale. I would bet he put the hummer in the garage for a short time, like minutes; only to put Michelle in it, and remove stickers. At this point he has to dump a body, and park the hummer and someone has to meet him somewhere to pick him up and take him back to parents home. Once there, you pick up kids, travel towards condo, toss out phone and hit FB. Of course there are many details and minutes to fill in, and lots of other things to explain, but if you sat down, (not you ) I bet you could make this work. As far as an IW as to seeing him there, what if they just thought they saw him, but it was some other male bringing home the kids in his truck? I do agree, I don't see anyone getting arrested any time soon, because of lack of proof. I don't see anyone coming forward either, because of the relationship to people who know and family and well you get it. But I could see a person cutting a deal down the road because they over heard or heard a story in a bar and they had information. So I guess we have to wait. So sorry for the family, it is a long, heartbreaking wait for them.

Sure, it could have happened exactly that way, as I said there are countless posts here with theories just like this one, litigated and re-litigated over and over again. It's not difficult at all to come up with a theory if one's not restrained by what one's can prove factually even in the broadest of way, sort of like playing a game of chess where one can re-arrange the pieces to one's liking and therefore win all the time. The problem of course is that after you have devised a particular scenario how does that help you in finding Michelle? Clearly there are no eyewitness that have come forth, clearly there's not forensic evidence at the condo or against DS in general to warrant an arrest to this date, let alone a prosecution and conviction ... so what then? In other words, assume that it happened exactly the way you described, how does any of it help finding Michelle? If the point of the exercise is not "... if it happened this way then Michelle might be around this location ..." then what is? In other words, at some point at least, it seems reasonable to me that one needs to intersect a theory with something factual, something demonstrable that is directly related to that theory, or the whole exercise becomes an end in itself and Michelle becomes secondary to that very end.

IMO What's more practical, at least by now, is to look for Michelle or to help look for her, or to do anything we possibly can to help finding her. Particular those who are local to the area have the opportunity to really make a difference in a tangible way. For my part I've volunteered to help run a website specifically dedicated to coordinate searches and volunteers, and to even design it from the ground up. At this point and IMO, the key to finding Michelle is not in quarreling about on how DS did it, or how bad DS is or DS here DS there, DS up and DS down, but by taking practical and serious steps to actually look for her.

It's important that Michelle does not become yet another statistic on missing person slowly fading from the public consciousness, if one can manage to conduct even one search a week one has accomplished much of all that is practical. Now having said that I'm also aware that it's not clear to me that any of it can be accomplished if at all, nor do I have a clear idea on its implementation, but nevertheless it's time well spent for me in making an effort as opposite to having yet another discussion about Dale Smith Jr.

 

[Skully]

Well I was looking at the map and where the hummer was found and thought about the steps it takes and in what order and the more I thought about it, I think there was at least 2 people involved, perhaps 3. I also think the may have been farther North than where it was found. So looking at the map there is on place that is connected to DS Sr and that is a home off S Mission. The area is full of trees, retention ponds and I don't know if any of the roads have video or if any of that area was searched, or canvassed to see if anyone did see a hummer or any activity around that time.

I also look at people and lifestyles, where they live, how they live, do they have a boat, a trailer, things that could aid in this theory. Living in a condo, I am not sure that you would have a shovel to dig a grave. Even Casey A had to borrow one because GA locked the shed. I also consider age and health to see if the person is able to lift, drag, dig, throw a person of any size. Also who has any property, land, storage spaces; all good places to hid a body. I also know you have to have a warrant or at least a good reason to ask a Judge for one to go onto the property to search. So this is just some of the stuff I think about. I am sure it is maddening to even read this, doesn't find Michelle, but I like to reason it out. If you want to call it that. So could Sr. manage by himself, to dispose of a body in an area familiar to him? Would it make sense to have Jr take the kids to Sr's place and Sr drive out to where ever, dump a body, drive the hummer to the parking lot and Jr pick him up? IDK, but I think if you are going to put a person in a vehicle it should be the one you expect to find their DNA in, not your car, van or truck, because now you have to clean it real well. Once again my thoughts on this. So maybe North of where the car was found would be a good place to just check out, ask around, what ever.

 

[Thor]

Well I was looking at the map and where the hummer was found and thought about the steps it takes and in what order and the more I thought about it, I think there was at least 2 people involved, perhaps 3. I also think the may have been farther North than where it was found. So looking at the map there is on place that is connected to DS Sr and that is a home off S Mission. The area is full of trees, retention ponds and I don't know if any of the roads have video or if any of that area was searched, or canvassed to see if anyone did see a hummer or any activity around that time.

I also look at people and lifestyles, where they live, how they live, do they have a boat, a trailer, things that could aid in this theory. Living in a condo, I am not sure that you would have a shovel to dig a grave. Even Casey A had to borrow one because GA locked the shed. I also consider age and health to see if the person is able to lift, drag, dig, throw a person of any size. Also who has any property, land, storage spaces; all good places to hid a body. I also know you have to have a warrant or at least a good reason to ask a Judge for one to go onto the property to search. So this is just some of the stuff I think about. I am sure it is maddening to even read this, doesn't find Michelle, but I like to reason it out. If you want to call it that. So could Sr. manage by himself, to dispose of a body in an area familiar to him? Would it make sense to have Jr take the kids to Sr's place and Sr drive out to where ever, dump a body, drive the hummer to the parking lot and Jr pick him up? IDK, but I think if you are going to put a person in a vehicle it should be the one you expect to find their DNA in, not your car, van or truck, because now you have to clean it real well. Once again my thoughts on this. So maybe North of where the car was found would be a good place to just check out, ask around, what ever.

I'm not familiar with the area since I don't live in Florida, it's one thing to look at a map and another to actually be there, not unlike looking at something without your eye glasses and then putting them on.

The location that is a home off S Mission and the area full of trees, retention ponds etc... as per your description seems a good area to search based on the theory the DS had help from one or two other accomplices, but I don't know if that particular area has been searched which brings me to another point of frustration for me which is as follows ...

Detective science is just like any another science, it has many components to it; There's a guessing stage, a theoretical stage, a discovery stage, a testing stage to name the most important ones ... and the whole effort needs to be an integral part of a very specific and deliberate process, in other words process is the common denominator from where all aspects of the scientific effort come together and without which you are likely to end up in a non-productive environment not unlike a dog chasing his own tale.

Now, it's also very important to divorce personal emotions from the task at hand, for the same reasons doctors don't generally diagnose themselves or lawyers don't generally represent themselves; I think you're familiar with the saying that "a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client", and that applies across the board.

There is then a need here to really have a focused approach on finding Michelle, the police notwithstanding, where process and method is the common denominator to achieve a cohesive effort in trying to locate Michelle, IMO there is a need to engage more efficiently those, like you that want to help and may have something concrete to contribute. Specifically, what if Michelle is actually at this very location you've just pinpointed? What good would it be if there's no one to actually go there and search? What good is it if there's no one who has the right organizational structure in place to take advantage of the opportunity? All that we would have had accomplished then is to entertain ourselves, and that is the difference between chit-chatting and having a specific objective and a process to achieve it, or more to the point here the difference between finding or not finding Michelle.

Going from the theoretical to the practical, the ideas here can be numerous and only limited by the amount of people willing to come up with them. For example, why not an internet based database about locations that have been searched? A way for people to gather and compare notes in order to conduct an actual search? A way to reach as many people as possible with news and information about the state of the effort without giving away sensitive information pertinent to the investigation itself ... I could go on ... you get the point. More precisely and to the point: it's not enough to have ideas and opinions, it's the way you channel them that makes all the difference ... in other words ... process.

 

[Skully]

You are right, it does no good to figure out or theroize where a missing person could be and then no one to check it out. You said you offered to build a web site that would help with many of the things mentioned in the above post; is the family taking you up on the offer? I think that is a great idea, because we have a map here, of places searched in the beginning but only things that were in MSM. I hope they are using your talents, and doing the searches, ruling out areas. Orlando is a huge place to search, but given the time frame and other factors I think they can accomplish a lot of ground and you never know what will turn up. They may find something that will yeild a clue or lead as to where she is.

 

[Thor]

You are right, it does no good to figure out or theroize where a missing person could be and then no one to check it out. You said you offered to build a web site that would help with many of the things mentioned in the above post; is the family taking you up on the offer? I think that is a great idea, because we have a map here, of places searched in the beginning but only things that were in MSM. I hope they are using your talents, and doing the searches, ruling out areas. Orlando is a huge place to search, but given the time frame and other factors I think they can accomplish a lot of ground and you never know what will turn up. They may find something that will yeild a clue or lead as to where she is.

Well no, it does good what you were talking about, if you have other ideas please talk about them, besides nobody appointed me the judge of what is good or not good to say, mine are subjective opinions and others may think differently and they may very well be right. If you have an idea it's good to talk about it, for what I know Michelle might very well be in the area you were pinpointing, however it's not up to me or you how information is processed and utilized and what I was saying in general terms is that IMO those who manage information need to have a defined process and an organizational apparatus to gather every bit of information that becomes available and then channel it appropriately. One achieves that by weeding out what is useful and what is not, what is practical or not, and then assign each and every asset to the right resources that are available. It's not as complicated as it sounds, people that have the right organizational skills can do this with their eyes closed (so to speak), what's more challenging is building the right organization and acquire the human resources and financial capital to meet at least the minimum requirements of the task.

As per your other question no, I haven't been contacted about the website or about anything else for that matter, I make this observation without comment and speaking only as a matter of fact. I must believe that they know what they're doing, I have no reason to think otherwise and my heart goes out to them in wishing them to be reunited with Michelle soon.

 

[StacyMarie83]

just to toss my 2 cents out there: i have thought about this case a lot, i think the only way he could get away with it, in front of the kids and from the police, is by strangling her. No screaming, blood, voices, bangs, etc.

i personally wonder (and maybe you all would know) if they checked anywhere for decomposition anywhere.

 

[captdj]

IF Dale did take the kids to parents home and his phone pinged the same towers as Michelles phone when her brother texted her.....hmmmm

Just a theory if both ( Dale and Michelles Phone) seems to be going the same direction so if this happened also at the same time...would most of you guys feel this is a reason he is POI.

Problems for me
The " TEXT" message back to her brother and Dale going to parents

Dale saying Michelle was going "shopping" bothers me.

No more mesaages or texts from Michelle after leaving Dale's...

The purse not being taken by the " some unknown person" driving the Hummer.
No prints even on her purse where this unknown perp..at least peeked...

No unknown DNA or prints in hummer and the fact the hummer was just left in the open not torched etc. only with the decals being removed...HMMMM


The unavailibity to reach Dale by Michelles Parents but not Dale's mom.

Michelle Iphone being dumped at a location that evening and Dale returning home that evening same general area and direction.

If LE did connect the dots between DS travel and her Iphone....I can see why he is a POI.

This is just a theory and LE has not given us all the details just some of them. But something LE has....makes him their only POI.

Unless Michelle had to do the following:
Lied to her bother in the text
Lied to Dale about Shopping
Had plans to leave her other child alone.
Followed Dale or at least went the same direction
Went to walden Apartments to meet someone.
Went inside walden w/o her purse and never came out???

I dont buy this for several reasons :

The perp who is at Walden takes Michelle, her Iphone and her Keys...
Then Michelle's phone would show these towers and indicate her path to Walden from Dale's

The "walden" perp went out and removed the decals and left no prints on the windows.

Has her keys but doesnt enter Hummer or leave prints or DNA.

Does not look in the hummer at all to take her purse?

Didn't move the hummer away from the crime scene?

Why would the "Walden Perp" just removed the decals?

I just can not see Michelle going to the apartments to meet someone but I did think about "what if" SODDI.

Question:

The decals could they be removed from the outside? or were they the inside static kind?

 

[Skully]

I agree, I think too many things don't add up, but I could also go with SODDI only because of lack of evidence. Has to be the phone pings that set it in motion for DS jr as POI and his past history. Combined, it makes sense.

So this is my thoughts for today..

DS jr killed MP
called dad and mom
DS jr takes kids to parents, waits for dad's call
Mom drives the car or truck back following DS
dad takes hummer and MP
dad gets rid of MP and dumps hummer, calls for jr to pick him up
they go back to parents, Dale takes kids back to condo, tosses phone on the way there.

could be way off, but this is what I think. And if DS sr dumped the body, they will have to figure out his stomping grounds to search out, not jr. This could be the problem. People have patterns and routines and safe places, but if you are looking at the wrong person's habits, you won't get anywhere.

 

[captdj]

too much staging....to make us look elsewhere

and I don't think you are way off....