FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

[captdj]

The Dad Dale sr. fishing the next day still has me going hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Reality Orlando]

That is the one billion dollar question isn't it? One answers this one factually and one solves the riddle clearly.

So again it's useful to look at the facts dispassionately not to convict or to absolve, that is beside the point, but to test the theory insofar of what can be proven or at least conceptualized in order to find a location where Michelle might be, having concluded like me, that there's simply not enough evidence (if at all) to allege foul play at the condo much less successfully conclude a prosecution. We are for the sake of this exercise assuming it is true that Michelle is incapacitated and/or killed at the condo (notwithstanding the myriad of objections one can easily raise under this scenario) because they are not at odds with the exercise itself.

So, if Michelle gets to DS, is somehow abducted, killed, whatever, what happens next? And what are the circumstances in which everything unfolds under this theory? Please note that I'm not even going to attempt to establish a theory where this is planned in advance since there is a limit to theorizing about events which has to be at least at the doorsteps of the Twilight Zone since it would border on the surreal that DS actually planned to kill Michelle around 4pm when she's dropping off his own kids at his own condo, if one believes that to be possible then ... whatever ... I'm not going to go there and I just assume he acted alone and in the spur of the moment, at least initially.

So, what are the circumstances in which everything unfolds under this theory? They are as follows:

1. Michelle is at his condo, unconscious, incapacitated, dead or otherwise incapable to exercise her free will.

2. Her twin children are at the scene. They are unaware of what has just transpired, but they can very well become aware of it in part or in whole soon enough giving what must have been an extremely fluid situation that can scarcely be controlled under the circumstances present at the time.

3. Michelle's Hummer is parked outside.

4. There are activities outside of the condo, since it is around 4pm people are on and about, coming and going, all of them potential witnesses.


So, what does DS need to do under these circumstances?

1. Evidence, must be ascertained and neutralized, and that must include Michelle herself.

2. Since an actual alibi is not possible, a plausible narrative must be created in order to explain away events that can be damaging and/or incriminating. DS does not need an alibi of course, he needs reasonable doubt, and he needs to leave no evidence behind; Where both of those are true, he would then get away with murder notwithstanding the obligatory suspicions and the loss of any popularity context, both of which he can live with just fine.

3. Enlist help if at all possible, that being a huge wild card, exposing himself and his deeds to outside sources he can hardly control and having to talk someone into being an accessory to murder without being able to give valid reasons or benefits for doing so ... in other words he needs to find someone as degenerate, reckless and incredibly callous as he is that happens to be willing to help ... he needs to be a master manipulator. Easier said then done IMO especially considering that that would afflict him with something no one ever has accused him of, judging by the way he's conducted his life leading to this very moment, that one thing being an oversized level of intelligence.

So, what doe he do actually?

He takes the twins to his parent's, that much is a matter of record, what it's not a matter of record is whether he stashes Michelle inside the van before or after he delivers the twins? To me its a bit preposterous and insanely creepy the before theory, not to mention unnecessarily risky, so let's say he returns to the condo where the cover up part begins to take shape.

From there is a matter of getting rid of both the Hummer and Michelle, create plausible deniability all the while performing the obligatory dance of avoiding potential witnesses to the degree possible. He therefore sets a tentative windows of about 3 hours to do so ...

... the rest is history and everybody has an opinion, and one can be easily sidetracked from the real issues by trying to prove a theory just like the one above which cannot possibly be proven if it's true that there is no actual evidence to support any of it, a fact that IMO should be clear to anyone by now at least.

However since the real task is IMO to find Michelle, then where does DS hides Michelle in the 3 following hours assuming above is more of less what actually happened?

From 5pm to 8pm he must find a good hiding place (and clearly finds it). He must come back to the Hummer to ditch it or to move it, or must come back to the van after ditching the Hummer. In any case he must position the Hummer as far as possible from the scene of the crime, Walden court as it happens, some 8miles from his condo if I remember correctly, not that far because he does not have much time, or he must presume not to for at any time he can be detected ... the clock is ticking ... tick ... tick ... tick ... there is pressure, he might not have a shovel, he might not have enough time ... tick ... tick ... tick ... those are not the circumstances where you find an ideal hiding place ... tick ... tick ... tick ... a drainage dump perhaps? Some men made structure with plenty of hollow spaces? An abandoned warehouse? A public storage place? Thick ... thick .. thick ... ... one gets the picture here.

Wherever Michelle is today can't be that far away from the crime scene IMO assuming DS is guilty and assuming no one helped him to conceal the crime. One would hope there are enough people to search the paths taken but each and every theory and I know that is a monumental task but a necessary one in my opinion, however I'm of the mind (although I've been wrong many times before) that unless Michelle is found this case will never be solved ... so ...

... where is Michelle? Any ideas?

I live a couple "blocks" away from Michelle and my business is about a mile from DS home so I travel this area almost daily. There are ways that you can travel from Orlando to Geneva without hitting the toll roads, but at that time of day and with schools letting out/traffic I don't see Michelle traveling the back roads from DS home, just MO, unless she had time to spare and wanted to avoid paying tolls.

IF she was at Waterford, she may have traveled down Alafaya and in to Oviedo then up 426. But, again, this is all very busy roadways/shopping areas and again schools are letting out at this time of day so you also have the addition of buses and parents picking their kids up and extra vigilance with cops at almost every school to direct traffic. You also have crossing guards stopping traffic throughout the area so with all the publicity the disappearance brought to the area, I'd have to think someone would have remembered the Hummer with the stickers or someone removing the stickers somewhere along the way. There are many scenic back roads as well that I love to take, but I'm going to assume that she wouldn't side track with her son home from school and waiting for her. I don't see any of the natural lands areas being a stopping point as most of the parking for those is viewable from main roads and they are pretty heavily used. Add to that the area where her Hummer was found and I just don't see Geneva as being a likely prospect.

IMO the most likely possibilities are something happened at DS home or she was carjacked at Waterford Lakes if she was indeed there. That still leaves a lot of doubt to me as Waterford is ALWAYS packed and very busy. I just don't see Michelle, as feisty as she was, being able to be carjacked that easily without drawing attention of some type in that area. I shop there all the time and can't remember a single time there weren't people everywhere. Plus, I have to believe there are outside cameras all over the place. You have Best Buy, banks, a post office, and a host of high end stores. If she was there I would think she would have been seen on someone's camera especially since a Hummer would be pretty easy to pick out even from a distance.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Another thought on this: if a boat was indeed used, there are so many islands all along the Banana River, the Indian River, the Intercoastal Waterway where you could place a body and I don't see anyone ever finding it. Some of the islands with mangroves are very hard to get to but if someone had a reason to fight his way in through those areas?? Wonder if anyone had any bug bites around this time..they don't call that area "Mosquito Lagoon" for nothing. Even with the best of the best bug spray it's hard to avoid getting bit up.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Thinking of Michelle Parker today & hoping she's found soon...

I've recently started researching family communities w/ decent school systems & low crime in FL for our anticipated move in the future. 1 of the areas I'm looking at now is Clermont. I know this might sound strange, & its def not in that "triangular" area we get used to looking at w/ missing persons cases on here, but there's sooo much open space right near Clermont...plus Apopka Lake too. It kinda makes me wonder, what if? Hypothetically speaking, iiiiif DS Jr is the cat that's responsible, then maybe he didn't stash her in an area he's always been known to travel. Maybe he would have conversely stowed her in the opposite direction completely, which would point towards the west... I know its probably way far off, but what if? I mean, there's a wildlife refuge, a swamp, a huge lake (& I know there's tons in FL but Apopka Lake is gigantic from what I remember).

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Thor, you're on! Good morning! I was waiting to see if somebody would view Michelle 's thread. Trying to catch up. Doesn't look like any new info has surfaced, unless I overlooked something?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

What was that fast food place that Michelle stopped at? McD's? KFC? I forget the place & the Timestamp of her going through the drive thru...

 

[Thor]

Thor, you're on! Good morning! I was waiting to see if somebody would view Michelle 's thread. Trying to catch up. Doesn't look like any new info has surfaced, unless I overlooked something?

'Morning Jersey*Girl, sorry I must have gotten off right when you posted, good to see ya back. I come here often always hoping that some new info becomes available, unfortunately that has not been the case yet ... I think at some point something's gotta give, or MP will become yet another case that has become hopelessly cold, but I haven't giving up hope ... L8r ...

 

[Thor]

What was that fast food place that Michelle stopped at? McD's? KFC? I forget the place & the Timestamp of her going through the drive thru...

Michelle had stopped at a KFC on State Road 436 and U.S. 17-92 in Fern Park on November 17th around 12:22 p.m. That is approximately three houses before she dropped off her children at DS ... why?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Michelle had stopped at a KFC on State Road 436 and U.S. 17-92 in Fern Park on November 17th around 12:22 p.m. That is approximately three houses before she dropped off her children at DS ... why?

Thanks.

Farfetched I think but I wonder... Did investigators look at surveillance footage / security or video footage (whatever its called) from that KFC during the time Michelle was in the drive thru, & wondering specifically if they checked other license plates that may have been in front or behind her in that drive thru line. I mean, its probably "out there" but I'm wondering if detectives were thorough in their research of this aspect. If the perp isn't DS Jr, chances are it was someone Michelle came in contact with, be it physical contact by an acquaintance or a simple stranger with a purpose to harm that noticed her & followed her.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

If the perp happens to be serial, then there's a very big chance he or she is a stranger to Michelle.

This is hypothetical if the perp isn't Dale...

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I just thought of something that I don't remember being asked before...

Where was Michelle living when she first met Dale? Ie city/town? Address if anyone knows?

 

[Thor]

Thanks.

Farfetched I think but I wonder... Did investigators look at surveillance footage / security or video footage (whatever its called) from that KFC during the time Michelle was in the drive thru, & wondering specifically if they checked other license plates that may have been in front or behind her in that drive thru line. I mean, its probably "out there" but I'm wondering if detectives were thorough in their research of this aspect. If the perp isn't DS Jr, chances are it was someone Michelle came in contact with, be it physical contact by an acquaintance or a simple stranger with a purpose to harm that noticed her & followed her.

Yeah, I see what you mean ... I would assume that the police have checked video footage of the cars immediately ahead and behind Michelle's H3 and all the other videos available at the KFC location, parking lot, entrances, and so on. The problem is however, that assuming she's kidnapped by a stranger, there's little value in the footage at KFC since the kidnapping will happen after the KFC stop .... unless one can make a connection between the H3, another vehicle and/or a person present at the time at KFC.

I really don't think the DS is involved here, as you know ... very difficult to impossible IMO for him to kill Michelle at the condo and dispose of the body and the H3 all by himself and it's also a bit problematic envisioning getting help for himself "on the fly", with more then one people possibly coming and going from the condo or otherwise involved in manipulating a body in an area sure to be the subject of meticulous scrutiny by the police all the while leaving no traces behind .... but then again that might be exactly the way it happened for what I know. If MP is killed at Dale's she is very close to the condo, since DS does not have a lot of time to somehow dispose of the body, the H3 and the evidence under those circumstances.

However, perhaps there's something here that has been overlooked, consider the following; There are 4 objects that are of consequence:

1. The Hummer

2. The keys to the Hummer

3. The cellphone

5. The decals

The Hummer is found parked at Walden's Circle, it's keys are missing and so are the decals and the cellphone BUT not the purse.

So, I think above has to beg the question: why did the perp find it useful to keep the keys, the cellphone and to remove the decals BUT left the purse in the Hummer? Why does the purse need to be found in the Hummer or at least it doesn't matter to the perp if it's found in the Hummer?

Now, you would think that if the perp is DS he might have wanted to get rid of the purse like the rest so as to give at least some credence to the possibility of an hijacking and robbery situation ... so why not take the purse then? Or at least remove, money, credit cards, jewelery or anything of monetary value? Why not? But NO ... the purse is in the Hummer and of course there is a reason for everything ....

Could it be the perp never entered the Hummer because he never wanted/needed to for the obvious reasons? Assuming the decals are removable from the outside (as I believe it's the case), assuming Michelle herself parked the Hummer at that very location, which explains in the simplest of hypothesis why the H3 was found "clean", and assuming she only took her cellphone and keys on her way to a brief stop around that location ... then you'd have a more credible hypothesis of what happened that day in my opinion then what we've been envisioning so far.

What do you think?

 

[Sparky]

Michelle had stopped at a KFC on State Road 436 and U.S. 17-92 in Fern Park on November 17th around 12:22 p.m. That is approximately three houses before she dropped off her children at DS ... why?

She had gone to Fern Park to pick up hair color for her moms shop.

 

[Thor]

She had gone to Fern Park to pick up hair color for her moms shop.

No, I had meant why was Jersey*Girl asking about the KFC stop ... in what context ...

 

[Sparky]

No, I had meant why was Jersey*Girl asking about the KFC stop ... in what context ...

Sorry I misunderstood.

 

[Thor]

Sorry I misunderstood.

It's ok, I actually didn't know she had gone to Fern Park to pick up hair color for her moms shop, thanx.

 

[Sparky]

It's been so long, but IIRC correctly the hummer was locked when found. The decals where on the outside and the hummer was found about midnight on the 17th even though it was reported to be found on the 18th later in the morning.

It's also my understanding, the work van was cleared.

 

[Thor]

It's been so long, but IIRC correctly the hummer was locked when found. The decals where on the outside and the hummer was found about midnight on the 17th even though it was reported to be found on the 18th later in the morning.

It's also my understanding, the work van was cleared.

As I said for a long time this perp(s) is methodical ... he's careful not to leave evidence behind, he's mindful of his surroundings, he knows what to do, he acts purposely and calculates .... and of these there can be no doubt IMO, and to that effect (if the fact that he's left no evidence behind is not telling already) let's consider more specifically the decals ... since I find it unlikely that you can just peel them off by pulling from one corner as you would an ordinary adhesive or a refrigerator magnet, I would guess he would need both hands to manipulate them to an extent, thus possibly leaving fingerprints on the Hummer ... therefore he's either waring gloves or he wipes off the area around were the decals were removed.

He doesn't take the purse of course, entering the Hummer is to risk leaving forensic evidence behind ... one single strand of his hair or one spec of his saliva and the police have a DNA print to name just two possibilities ... and he doesn't have time to "clean" the Hummer ... to risky ... unnecessarily risky, IMO this perp leaves nothing to chance when possible, not even a remote one and that is why he leaves the purse inside the hummer. He needs to remove the decals to either buy time or most likely to make believe that the Hummer had been "dumped" there as opposite to being "parked" there, or both (read my posts above). He keeps the cellphone because he needs a time-frame from which to operate and calculate ... when is somebody looking for Michelle? When is somebody getting worried about his victim? And that is not because he's expecting a massive manhunt for a woman possibly missing for a few hours but because he himself cannot disappear for too long of a time and in the same time of his victim, he needs to return to a place where he might be accounted for should it be the case he might come under police scrutiny, and IMO it's possible there's a reason in his mind that this one last consideration is not outside the possibilities ... hence ... if the body he's not found the police are not going to have a specific time of abduction and of death so a fabricated account of his whereabouts will do as long as it is not uncommonly late into the night to merit questions ... he needs to conclude this undertaking sooner rather then later ... eventually he's at the place where he hides the body, the river where he throws away the phone, both places having no connection to the initial crime scene, and most importantly, no connection to himself ... after that it's all smooth sailing away from the godforsaken evil that he's perpetrated.

 

[captdj]

Yeah, I see what you mean ... I would assume that the police have checked video footage of the cars immediately ahead and behind Michelle's H3 and all the other videos available at the KFC location, parking lot, entrances, and so on. The problem is however, that assuming she's kidnapped by a stranger, there's little value in the footage at KFC since the kidnapping will happen after the KFC stop .... unless one can make a connection between the H3, another vehicle and/or a person present at the time at KFC.

I really don't think the DS is involved here, as you know ... very difficult to impossible IMO for him to kill Michelle at the condo and dispose of the body and the H3 all by himself and it's also a bit problematic envisioning getting help for himself "on the fly", with more then one people possibly coming and going from the condo or otherwise involved in manipulating a body in an area sure to be the subject of meticulous scrutiny by the police all the while leaving no traces behind .... but then again that might be exactly the way it happened for what I know. If MP is killed at Dale's she is very close to the condo, since DS does not have a lot of time to somehow dispose of the body, the H3 and the evidence under those circumstances.

However, perhaps there's something here that has been overlooked, consider the following; There are 4 objects that are of consequence:

1. The Hummer

2. The keys to the Hummer

3. The cellphone

5. The decals

The Hummer is found parked at Walden's Circle, it's keys are missing and so are the decals and the cellphone BUT not the purse.

So, I think above has to beg the question: why did the perp find it useful to keep the keys, the cellphone and to remove the decals BUT left the purse in the Hummer? Why does the purse need to be found in the Hummer or at least it doesn't matter to the perp if it's found in the Hummer?

Now, you would think that if the perp is DS he might have wanted to get rid of the purse like the rest so as to give at least some credence to the possibility of an hijacking and robbery situation ... so why not take the purse then? Or at least remove, money, credit cards, jewelery or anything of monetary value? Why not? But NO ... the purse is in the Hummer and of course there is a reason for everything ....

Could it be the perp never entered the Hummer because he never wanted/needed to for the obvious reasons? Assuming the decals are removable from the outside (as I believe it's the case), assuming Michelle herself parked the Hummer at that very location, which explains in the simplest of hypothesis why the H3 was found "clean", and assuming she only took her cellphone and keys on her way to a brief stop around that location ... then you'd have a more credible hypothesis of what happened that day in my opinion then what we've been envisioning so far.

What do you think?

OK If Michelle did stop at Walden to meet someone it would make sense she could have followed the same path or direction as Dale....

We know then the "perp" knew what Michelles car looked like.
Was concerned enough to remove the decals, had the keys but not go inside...hmmm

That to means the perp only wanted a small window of time to flee...this doesnt seem like a random in nature.

Whoever removed the decals knew the vechile well enough to know whoses it was, and where it was parked and still didnt care if it would be found at that location...and it would be logical to also look at the residents of walden right? So to me If I had a connection to Walden...I'd want it gone.

So if it was soddi he was just looking for a few hours to escape..and maybe was just visiting Walden.....not a resident.

this reasoning would also fit if Dale parked it there..

someone who needed a little time...who didnt care if the car was found there.


The other problem is the text message that was sent from her phone on the way to walden..... then Michelle would have lied to her brother about where she was at that moment or where she was headed.

Where was her bother actually at? in reference to the area of Walden?.... Does walden put her closer to him if she had texted.... Hey Im gonna go to Walden Apts...would she have been able to pick him up or closer to him?



again...removing of the decals... still bugs the heck out of me ....its seems so personal and if the perp took her from walden ....and did not drive the hummer....it seems to me that a" walden killer " had more problems than a decal or two......some random serial killer removing decals? IDK. Wouldn't he be worrying about disposal to think decals...


I have two questions now?
how easy could the decals be removed if they were on the outside....would it taking some scaping or cleaning....would they need some type of adhesive removal

Where was her brother when he called her? Was she known to not want to help her bother sometimes and would not tell the truth?

Was it more likely the perp was driving the Hummer and therefore wanted decals removed to not be identified or just removed them after Michelle visits the complex to buy a little time.

Whoever took Michelle knew a place.... that people don't go to often.

 

[captdj]

As I said for a long time this perp(s) is methodical ... he's careful not to leave evidence behind, he's mindful of his surroundings, he knows what to do, he acts purposely and calculates .... and of these there can be no doubt IMO, and to that effect (if the fact that he's left no evidence behind is not telling already) let's consider more specifically the decals ... since I find it unlikely that you can just peel them off by pulling from one corner as you would an ordinary adhesive or a refrigerator magnet, I would guess he would need both hands to manipulate them to an extent, thus possibly leaving fingerprints on the Hummer ... therefore he's either waring gloves or he wipes off the area around were the decals were removed.

He doesn't take the purse of course, entering the Hummer is to risk leaving forensic evidence behind ... one single strand of his hair or one spec of his saliva and the police have a DNA print to name just two possibilities ... and he doesn't have time to "clean" the Hummer ... to risky ... unnecessarily risky, IMO this perp leaves nothing to chance when possible, not even a remote one and that is why he leaves the purse inside the hummer. He needs to remove the decals to either buy time or most likely to make believe that the Hummer had been "dumped" there as opposite to being "parked" there, or both (read my posts above). He keeps the cellphone because he needs a time-frame from which to operate and calculate ... when is somebody looking for Michelle? When is somebody getting worried about his victim? And that is not because he's expecting a massive manhunt for a woman possibly missing for a few hours but because he himself cannot disappear for too long of a time and in the same time of his victim, he needs to return to a place where he might be accounted for should it be the case he might come under police scrutiny, and IMO it's possible there's a reason in his mind that this one last consideration is not outside the possibilities ... hence ... if the body he's not found the police are not going to have a specific time of abduction and of death so a fabricated account of his whereabouts will do as long as it is not uncommonly late into the night to merit questions ... he needs to conclude this undertaking sooner rather then later ... eventually he's at the place where he hides the body, the river where he throws away the phone, both places having no connection to the initial crime scene, and most importantly, no connection to himself ... after that it's all smooth sailing away from the godforsaken evil that he's perpetrated.

I agree.. taking the cell phone and removing decals -was "time management".