FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #23

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Who can, has and will do more damage to those kids by way of his own actions? Certainly it isn't the comments here in the archives of WS which will cut the deepest. No. That was signed, sealed, and delivered by their own father against their own mother. Even if Dale Wayne Smith Jr is never found guilty of murdering Michelle Loree Parker, that steely knife is here to stay and there is no one to credit for that but Dale Jr himself. How will he answer for that which he cannot deny? There will be a day when it will come to pass. What will he do then?

I know I can't imagine how those poor little twinners will feel knowing their dad killed their mom. You can only shelter children so long. With all the smart phones and tablets kids are accessing the web younger and younger. They too will know about dad and his wicked ways.
 
I know I said it before but the civil case should bring out a lot more info. I'm counting on it! :)
 
I guess we agree to disagree on the hobby of dressing like a Jedi scout. I have never seen people get obsessed with knitting but even so it is much more healthy IMO than pretending to be an action hero when you are 40 years old. To each his own... I am not here to judge just present facts as I see them. But I stand on my belief it was a sore subject with Michelle. At least that's the impression I get.

As for being an unfit parent, my point was he is a murderer or at least a suspected one and that should preclude him from having custody of a child let alone the two twinners. I also stand by my belief that in my day <modsnip>.

Though we may agree to disagree on some of these important subtopics I respect your opinions and see where you are coming from...I appreciate your willingness to keep helping us find Michelle.

Where is she and what did Dale do with her?


RBBM

Make-believe at any age--what a horror
But you are repeatedly making judgement statements about a hobby that thousands of people enjoy. You insist knitting is healthy while dressing up as a Stormtrooper is not, as though it's a fact--as though there has been some sort of high court determination as to which hobbies are essentially worthy of being deemed healthy, worthwhile pursuits. Lots of people dress up and pretend to be things they are not. Samuel L. Jackson dressed up like a Jedi and pretended to be one. Grown men and women play make believe every holiday season with Santas and nativity scenes--I was once forced to dress as the Easter Bunny (as an adult!) for a job--oh, and E.T. for another job.
People participate in Renaissance fairs, circuses, conventions, parades, plays, skits, demonstrations, charity events (doesn't his Stormtrooper group do charity events?), festivals, reenactments, and sometimes just for (gasp!) fun! Like it or not, adults dressing up and pretending is a socially accepted activity and has been for generations.

The way it's been put here, Dale needed "help" because of his participation in this stuff? Did he spend all his money on costumes and memorabilia to the point of not providing for his family? If that's the case, fine--his priorities were out of order and that's not okay. Was there some sort of intervention in the works for his action figure addiction?

Or does he truly, honestly, think he has the Force when he's dressed as Jedi? Does he think the twins are actually Luke and Leia?

Sympathy for the devil
Dale has not been prosecuted, but IMO, he has certainly been persecuted. While I agree there is more than enough reason for him to be the prime suspect here, at this point, even if he was tried, acquitted, and someone else was tried and convicted, his children would be able to go online and see not just accusations of murder, but shallow digs at everything about him.

There is a HUGE difference between a murder suspect, someone indicted for murder, and a convicted murderer. There's a joke that any good prosecutor could get a ham sandwich indicted, but Dale hasn't been indicted. Perhaps they are just building their case against him. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence; the lack of a body could be a hinderance.
 
flourish - hundreds of thousands of people & all or most of the proceeds go to charity. I had absolutely no idea whatsoever these conventions even existed until this case. When I dug into it, I was absolutely gobsmacked how extremely popular it actually is. I was even more amazed at the various levels of society that are involved - wealthy beyond rich as well as third working class citizens. Its amazing.
 
I know I can't imagine how those poor little twinners will feel knowing their dad killed their mom. You can only shelter children so long. With all the smart phones and tablets kids are accessing the web younger and younger. They too will know about dad and his wicked ways.

I still think Dale could be innocent just as much as he could be guilty. I know le could have more that's not released to the public, but the guy does have his children & lives out of state just like Michelle's previous ex lives out of state with her other child, & as far as I know social services haven't taken any of those kids away yet - so maybe they're loved happy & healthy right where they are.

As far as how the "twinners" would feel if their dad did kill their mom, its equally disheartening to think about how they'd feel if their dad didnt kill their mom & someone else was proven to have done so. If Dale is innocent in all of this, I'll bet the "twinners" will absolutely HATE the person or people that bully their father on a daily basis by calling him gay or *advertiser censored* (among ither names) & murderer without proof & I'd even wager that they'd bring a lawsuit against each & every person that ran their dad over. God help them if they find out they're related as I'd suspect they'd cut them off completely. Florida Sunshine Laws would guide those children into obtaining identities of people that called their father all kinds of derogatory names that have been ruled against by Anti Bullying Laws & fought for justice by the ACLU.
 
flourish - hundreds of thousands of people & all or most of the proceeds go to charity. I had absolutely no idea whatsoever these conventions even existed until this case. When I dug into it, I was absolutely gobsmacked how extremely popular it actually is. I was even more amazed at the various levels of society that are involved - wealthy beyond rich as well as third working class citizens. Its amazing.

It is pretty amazing, eh?. Those folks do all kinds of good works. Toy runs, visits to pediatric wards, fundraisers,etc. I don't believe Dales hobby has something to do with anything here. When we become obsessed with revenge, justice gets lost. Jmo
 
It is pretty amazing, eh?. Those folks do all kinds of good works. Toy runs, visits to pediatric wards, fundraisers,etc. I don't believe Dales hobby has something to do with anything here. When we become obsessed with revenge, justice gets lost. Jmo

100% agree!
 
Actually, Florida Sunshine Laws refer to public records and open government, not tracing identities

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/DC0B20B7DC22B7418525791B006A54E4

...... Over the years, the definition of what constitutes &#8220;public records&#8221; has come to include not just traditional written documents such as papers, maps and books, but also tapes, photographs, film, sound recordings and records stored in computers.
Florida's Government-in-the-Sunshine Law was enacted in 1967. Today, the Sunshine Law regarding open government can be found in Chapter 286 of the Florida Statutes. These statutes establish a basic right of access to most meetings of boards, commissions and other governing bodies of state and local governmental agencies or authorities.
Throughout the history of Florida's open government, its courts have consistently supported the
public's right of access to governmental meetings and records. As such, they also have been defining and redefining what a public record is and who is covered under the open meetings law. One area of public concern was whether or not the Legislature was covered under the open meetings requirements. To address that concerns, a Constitutional amendment was passed overwhelmingly by the voters in 1990 providing for open meetings in the legislative branch of government.
The Attorney General's Office has consistently sought to safeguard Florida's pioneering Government-in-the-Sunshine laws. Our attorneys have worked, both in the courtroom and out, to halt public records violations. In 1991, a decision by the Florida Supreme Court raised questions which made it
clear that the best way to ensure the public's right of access to all three branches of government was to secure that right through the Florida Constitution. The Attorney General's Office then drafted a definitive constitutional amendment, which guaranteed continued openness in the state's government and reaffirmed the application of open government to the legislative branch and
expanded it to the judiciary. This amendment passed in 1992.
 
So we're very fortunate to have our Sunshine Laws, which make it very helpful to follow cases and gather court information, among other things. :)
 
I think others...myself included...find it rather odd, immature behavior when a 40 year old guy calls himself "Jedi Scout", plays with action figures, and puts ads on Craig's list to attract men and women...it all reeks immaturity. These were some of reasons michelle dumped him... He refuses to grow up or get the help he needs.

Not to mention, he runs around half naked and fully cocked at these Star Wars parties and dresses like a 12 year old on Halloween. Sorry you can call me old fashioned but I call a spade a spade.... It is unfortunate that the court system won't put this guy where he belongs...in the slammer! In my day men were men and not boys. All JMO

Jazz, this is where you lose me. You've always derogatively spoken about Dale dressing up, but Michelle did too. You just said in this post that he's half naked, yet Michelle is wearing much less & it goes unnoticed by you? In another post you've said in so many words that Michelle wasn't ok with it, yet in the PC episode she said the exact opposite of what your post suggests. She told the judge that it used to be ok with her. Why all the disparaging remarks about thus hobby, this interest?

As a side note, my cousin Tommy has collected Star Wars action figures ever since he was little. Last March he sold his collection. Guess what Jazz - he got almost $40k for it all & put it down on his first house. Everybody has their little quirks - mine is shoes (I have around 80 pair lol I just can't help it) - but sometimes those collections can pay off if they're also done as an investment. I love shoes, my best friend likes old Wedgewood, my neighbor likes primitive country, my husband likes baseball cards, all of my sons like autographed jerseys (sports of any kind)...so Dale likes Star Wars. Disney has a HUGE turnout every single year during Star Wars weekend - so seems Dale isn't the only one with that hobby.
 
Actually, Florida Sunshine Laws refer to public records and open government, not tracing identities

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/DC0B20B7DC22B7418525791B006A54E4

Not entirely true. The context I'm speaking of refers to a lawsuit in which a person could bring stating how they've been damaged by such things. No email is anonymous in FL if a person brings suit. It all gets traced & is easily found out via ip attached with it all. Lawyers handle it all & judges never have a problem signing off on it.
 
But what if the hobby played into the crime scene? I recall a few threads back some were discussing the use of a SW costume bag to hide/conceal a body. Not likely, IMO, due to it's easy traceability if the body were found, but possible. Stranger things have happened. :)

Jmo
 
:scared:
Not entirely true. The context I'm speaking of refers to a lawsuit in which a person could bring stating how they've been damaged by such things. No email is anonymous in FL if a person brings suit. It all gets traced & is easily found out via ip attached with it all. Lawyers handle it all & judges never have a problem signing off on it.

Yes, the records must be subpoenaed. And nothing becomes public record until filed with the Clerk of Court.

Still, identities can be well concealed using various proxies. I use them all the time in my work. The average person wouldn't tho.
 
But what if the hobby played into the crime scene? I recall a few threads back some were discussing the use of a SW costume bag to hide/conceal a body. Not likely, IMO, due to it's easy traceability if the body were found, but possible. Stranger things have happened. :)

Jmo

If Michelle is found in a set of Stormtrooper armor, then that would be quite a discussion. It still wouldn't warrant an all-out derision for Star Wars fans everywhere.
 
I still think Dale could be innocent just as much as he could be guilty. I know le could have more that's not released to the public, but the guy does have his children & lives out of state just like Michelle's previous ex lives out of state with her other child, & as far as I know social services haven't taken any of those kids away yet - so maybe they're loved happy & healthy right where they are.

As far as how the "twinners" would feel if their dad did kill their mom, its equally disheartening to think about how they'd feel if their dad didnt kill their mom & someone else was proven to have done so. If Dale is innocent in all of this, I'll bet the "twinners" will absolutely HATE the person or people that bully their father on a daily basis by calling him gay or *advertiser censored* (among ither names) & murderer without proof & I'd even wager that they'd bring a lawsuit against each & every person that ran their dad over. God help them if they find out they're related as I'd suspect they'd cut them off completely. Florida Sunshine Laws would guide those children into obtaining identities of people that called their father all kinds of derogatory names that have been ruled against by Anti Bullying Laws & fought for justice by the ACLU.

Jersey*Girl I couldn't agree with you more with just about everything you said, but by the time the twins are old enough to pursue a legal action the statue of limitation here would have probably long ran out, also Dale Smith is what you call a "public figure" and as such defamation laws are extremely relaxed under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the first amendment of the US Constitution. That is not to say that having the right to do something means you should do it, like my cousin singing at a Karaoke event :) but one can't simply legislate good manners and such nor should one, the reason for which I need not explain to you surely other then to say summarily that it's never the brightest of idea to suppress speech, even the most hateful ones.

Having said that, I think what you have here is the classic "throwing everything but the kitchen sink" thingy, although in this case I think the kitchen sink is also included :), add to it the obligatory repetitions, and voila' ...

to go a bit further ... of course those children need to be kept out of this entire discussion.

Of course there is nothing substantiated in the public record that indicates that Dale is abusing his children in his custody or that the children are unhappy.

Of course there is nothing on the public record that indicate Dale is Gay, nor that there are any facts supporting that his sexual preference, whatever it is, had any relationship to Michelle above that which is obvious by the existence of those two beautiful children.

Of course there is nothing substantiated in the public record that indicates that Dale's hobby of the Star Wars thingy had any relationship to Michelle above the fact that both seem to enjoy it and participate in it at some point.

And one could go on ... but the real point here is in the form of a question ... outside of the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that it would be a very dull world if everyone would hold the same one, outside of the fact that theoretically speaking just about anything is possible, how can you nevertheless have a meaningful discussion on the merits of anything when people don't agree on the facts? More and more we get divided by, class, money, state, country, blue, red and so on and we are told that it's legitimate or even expected to hold opinions on anything under the sun, that one must take a side, one must choose, so we decide that there is or there's not "climate change" even though most of us haven't spent on single minute researching and understanding climate science, or in this case that Dale is guilty or innocent even though there's simply nothing conclusive in terms of evidence, and we forget that to believe and to conclude is also to demonstrate and to prove with facts not just with words, with evidence and not just opinions, with conviction and not just rhetoric, with analytical thinking not just guessing, with doubts not just certainties, and any process, mental or otherwise, that shortchanges any or all of it, will most likely be nothing but smoke blowing in the wind.

All JMO
 
Jazz, this is where you lose me. You've always derogatively spoken about Dale dressing up, but Michelle did too. You just said in this post that he's half naked, yet Michelle is wearing much less & it goes unnoticed by you? In another post you've said in so many words that Michelle wasn't ok with it, yet in the PC episode she said the exact opposite of what your post suggests. She told the judge that it used to be ok with her. Why all the disparaging remarks about thus hobby, this interest?

As a side note, my cousin Tommy has collected Star Wars action figures ever since he was little. Last March he sold his collection. Guess what Jazz - he got almost $40k for it all & put it down on his first house. Everybody has their little quirks - mine is shoes (I have around 80 pair lol I just can't help it) - but sometimes those collections can pay off if they're also done as an investment. I love shoes, my best friend likes old Wedgewood, my neighbor likes primitive country, my husband likes baseball cards, all of my sons like autographed jerseys (sports of any kind)...so Dale likes Star Wars. Disney has a HUGE turnout every single year during Star Wars weekend - so seems Dale isn't the only one with that hobby.

Yes there are a lot of people involved with this type of extracurricular activity and just as many who are actually employed in the field. But in this case we're talking about DSJr. I'm not disparaging the fact that he is interested in this hobby, or that he may spend a large amount of money on it but we can look at what we know in regards to that.

DSJr was not always forthcoming with child support payments. This is documented on the Orange County Clerk site. Michelle had to go through hoops on more than one occasion to get support for the children. DSJr was not willing to let the incident of losing the ring go and admit that it was the unfortunate fallout of a drunken evening while pursuing this hobby. He sued Michelle for it so he must have been needing the money right? And lets not forget that this was the first and I believe only time that they went to one of these conventions together. And he left her there with no way home. So obviously the hobby was not healthy for the relationship.

While I'm sure there are a lot of people involved with the 501st Legion for the charitable aspect, DSJr was not one of them. According to his statistics in 501st events attended, DSJr attended one charity event in five years. All other events were Dinners, parties and conventions. So it appears that DSJr signed up for the social "party" aspect of the organization, not the charitable aspect. Which is fine. Just wanted to make it clear so we don't confuse him with someone who is devoted to charitable work.

DSJr is a three time convicted felon for assault and battery. The records are clear and available once again on the Orange County Clerk site and the media has provided records from the USMC. He bragged quite a bit online about his military service but records indicate that he spent his time there being arrested for drugs and domestic battery, being confined and eventually dishonourably discharged. I don't think his time there provided much support to the USMC. So it's probably for the best that he didn't participate in charity events on behalf of the 501st Legion. I would think they would want to screen their members better considering a lot of their charity work is for children and is associated with Disney. It's kind of unnerving to know that all these people, dressed up in costume, could be convicted felons, RSO's etc. and none of the children or parents at these events are any the wiser. Not to mention how they supported DSJr when he was named the prime suspect in Michelle's disappearance even though they were made aware of his past criminal history. Just something I always thought the 501st might want to reconsider but hey...it's their organization. Let's hope they never have an incident at an event perpetrated by one of their members with a criminal record.

So while thousands of people are enjoying this hobby and it is not affecting their lives in a negative way, I'm not so sure that is the case with DSJr. Or at least it wasn't the case in the events leading up to Michelle's disappearance. The PC episode that was aired the day she disappeared was based on an incident that occurred during a convention for this hobby. It may or may not be relevant but it is the reason why this hobby has been discussed so often in this case.

MOO
 
Yes there are a lot of people involved with this type of extracurricular activity and just as many who are actually employed in the field. But in this case we're talking about DSJr. I'm not disparaging the fact that he is interested in this hobby, or that he may spend a large amount of money on it but we can look at what we know in regards to that.

DSJr was not always forthcoming with child support payments. This is documented on the Orange County Clerk site. Michelle had to go through hoops on more than one occasion to get support for the children. DSJr was not willing to let the incident of losing the ring go and admit that it was the unfortunate fallout of a drunken evening while pursuing this hobby. He sued Michelle for it so he must have been needing the money right? And lets not forget that this was the first and I believe only time that they went to one of these conventions together. And he left her there with no way home. So obviously the hobby was not healthy for the relationship.

Respectfully snipped for space

I doubt the need for money was the sole, or even primary, motivation behind the PC suit--greed yes, need no. IMO, Dale was more about control, spite, and revenge than budget-minded.

Once again, there seems to be an unwillingness or inability to separate Dale's actions from his hobby. As though he wouldn't have treated her poorly had they been attending an antique show. As though it's the very engagement in this wretched, pathological sci-fi hobby which turns men into monsters. As though Dale would have been a perfectly swell human being if only he'd been interested in bird-watching instead of X-wings.

Perhaps their relationship wasn't healthy. Perhaps since their relationship was unhealthy it wouldn't have mattered where they were, it was inevitable that they would have these fights.

Not to mention...we all post on a crime website. I can't possibly be the only person who has ever had weird reactions when people find out...my DH thinks we all are the ones with the unhealthy hobby.

It's almost as though human perspective and experience impacts people and their actions.

Oh weird, check this out...woman arrested for attacking her husband with knitting needles...but but but how can that be??? http://http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/20120905gilbert-woman-arrested-knitting-needle-attack-husband-brk.html?nclick_check=1
 
But we don't see constant references to Dale's Deadbeat-dad status. It's like that isn't as bad as playing Star Wars.

(Speaking of such, I just got the new Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic game for my iPad. I'm a 39-year old female teacher with a Master's degree, but goodness it's fun! Geez, I'm such a loser!)
 
Yes there are a lot of people involved with this type of extracurricular activity and just as many who are actually employed in the field. But in this case we're talking about DSJr. I'm not disparaging the fact that he is interested in this hobby, or that he may spend a large amount of money on it but we can look at what we know in regards to that.

DSJr was not always forthcoming with child support payments. This is documented on the Orange County Clerk site. Michelle had to go through hoops on more than one occasion to get support for the children. DSJr was not willing to let the incident of losing the ring go and admit that it was the unfortunate fallout of a drunken evening while pursuing this hobby. He sued Michelle for it so he must have been needing the money right? And lets not forget that this was the first and I believe only time that they went to one of these conventions together. And he left her there with no way home. So obviously the hobby was not healthy for the relationship.

While I'm sure there are a lot of people involved with the 501st Legion for the charitable aspect, DSJr was not one of them. According to his statistics in 501st events attended, DSJr attended one charity event in five years. All other events were Dinners, parties and conventions. So it appears that DSJr signed up for the social "party" aspect of the organization, not the charitable aspect. Which is fine. Just wanted to make it clear so we don't confuse him with someone who is devoted to charitable work.

DSJr is a three time convicted felon for assault and battery. The records are clear and available once again on the Orange County Clerk site and the media has provided records from the USMC. He bragged quite a bit online about his military service but records indicate that he spent his time there being arrested for drugs and domestic battery, being confined and eventually dishonourably discharged. I don't think his time there provided much support to the USMC. So it's probably for the best that he didn't participate in charity events on behalf of the 501st Legion. I would think they would want to screen their members better considering a lot of their charity work is for children and is associated with Disney. It's kind of unnerving to know that all these people, dressed up in costume, could be convicted felons, RSO's etc. and none of the children or parents at these events are any the wiser. Not to mention how they supported DSJr when he was named the prime suspect in Michelle's disappearance even though they were made aware of his past criminal history. Just something I always thought the 501st might want to reconsider but hey...it's their organization. Let's hope they never have an incident at an event perpetrated by one of their members with a criminal record.

So while thousands of people are enjoying this hobby and it is not affecting their lives in a negative way, I'm not so sure that is the case with DSJr. Or at least it wasn't the case in the events leading up to Michelle's disappearance. The PC episode that was aired the day she disappeared was based on an incident that occurred during a convention for this hobby. It may or may not be relevant but it is the reason why this hobby has been discussed so often in this case.

MOO

I think I can agree with most that you've said, however I think it is of no small significance that what you have pertinently mentioned here represent only one side of the story, which is IMO, the beginning, not the middle and surely not the end of a much more balanced narrative.

Let me explain that which is response to only few of your assertions and only insofar that it serves to represent my point:

" ... I'm not disparaging the fact that he is interested in this hobby, or that he may spend a large amount of money on it but we can look at what we know in regards to that ..."

Ok, what do we know in regard to your statement that is factual here, and I'm using the adjective factual only in so far that you've used the subject pronoun "we".

" ...DSJr was not always forthcoming with child support payments. This is documented on the Orange County Clerk site. Michelle had to go through hoops on more than one occasion to get support for the children"

True, but how many payments did he miss? What were the circumstances surrounding it? Did he make up those payments? Were there any disputes? How that compares to other similar circumstances with other parents? What is the relationship of it to Michelle's disappearance that can be used in a court of law? And I could go on ... ultimately, we know that whatever the issue might have been with the support payments that they were either not a factor or not enough of a factor to deny Dale custody of his children, as finding of facts by a a court of law, and that needs to be significant in it's own right.

" ... And lets not forget that this was the first and I believe only time that they went to one of these conventions together. And he left her there with no way home. So obviously the hobby was not healthy for the relationship ..."

Not so obvious, the relationship was not healthy to begin with regardless of the convention, usually fights between couples are not restricted to a particular location or activity, and we know factually that their relationship could be described as tumultuous long before and after after a particular conventions.

"... According to his statistics in 501st events attended, DSJr attended one charity event in five years ..."
" ... just wanted to make it clear so we don't confuse him with someone who is devoted to charitable work ..."

True but I haven't seen anyone here praise Dale personally for any philanthropic activities, on the other side of the coin, he did attend 1 such an event in 5 years, while there are lots of people who attended none in the same 5 years span, and that is what it is and nothing more then that.

"... DSJr is a three time convicted felon for assault and battery. The records are clear and available once again on the Orange County Clerk site ..."

True, but how severe is such a record among all possible felonies, does it make him a career criminal? [If so how? when did those felonies take place? How old was he at the time of those felonies? How long a time has passed since Dale has gotten in trouble with the law prior to this case? And most importantly, how does it relate directly to Michelle's disappearance? Something that a prosecution would have to establish with real evidence or such a record would not be admissible in court as being of no particular relevance to the felony alleged and quite possibly highly prejudicial to a jury.

" ... It's kind of unnerving to know that all these people, dressed up in costume, could be convicted felons ..."

True, I have the same concern on Halloween. Trick or Treat could be emotionally exhausting to me, no pun intended ... well ... may be just a little :)

" ...The PC episode that was aired the day she disappeared was based on an incident that occurred during a convention for this hobby. It may or may not be relevant but it is the reason why this hobby has been discussed so often in this case."

I simply disagree here.

All JMO
 
Florida has a Three Strikes law. Wouldn't even come up to a jury....a third felony conviction and the judge is required to impose the maximum sentence if the felon is convicted. Doesn't matter how long ago it happened or his age (as long as he was an adult at the time of the two previous felony convictions).
 
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