FL FL - Pasco Co., WhtMale 524UFML, 30-50, Harley Davidson, swastika tats, Jan'89

[vermontaigne]

My first submission on UID forum - be kind to me. This one seems so darn solveable. What about this guy, Mark Hudson from New York, missing since May '88? He's on the younger end, only 27, but he had over 15 tattoos when he disappeared. Described in profile are two tattoos on his right arm, nothing about his left arm. No indication he was a biker, but there's not much info about him period. Height and weight good, appeared to wear hair on the longer/shaggy side, reddish tint to hair, no mention of any dental work though.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

It's too bad we don't have any dentals or DNA for Mark, or better descriptions of his many tattoos. One interesting, probably unrelated thing: George Ivan Waters, who went missing from West Palm Beach in late 1991, is thought perhaps to have used the alias last name Hudson.

 

[Ambercat]

My first submission on UID forum - be kind to me. This one seems so darn solveable. What about this guy, Mark Hudson from New York, missing since May '88? He's on the younger end, only 27, but he had over 15 tattoos when he disappeared. Described in profile are two tattoos on his right arm, nothing about his left arm. No indication he was a biker, but there's not much info about him period. Height and weight good, appeared to wear hair on the longer/shaggy side, reddish tint to hair, no mention of any dental work though.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

NamUs lists Mark's middle initial as "R." I wonder what his middle name is.

 

[jenstar]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/719dmca.html
Age kinda fits, has tattoos all over missing front teeth, long hair..IDK worth a try I guess.

 

[jenstar]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

This guy kinda resembles the original sketch of the UID. What struck me is the backpack. In the picture of The items found with the UID's glasses it looks like a green rucksack. The guy missing is also named randy. I do however, believe in coincidences. And why would this "randy" go live off the grid and then pop up four months later with tattoos? But I guess he could have traveled and gotten the tattoos. That could be four months of growth if the person ate well. Just an observation.

 

[Ambercat]

Speaking of men named Randy, I noticed that Randy McBee has missing teeth and tattoos described as --

panther,flags r arm /cross
scorpion. mummy l arm

yet A LOT of time elapsed between when he was last seen (November 1, 1971, age 23) and when the UID was found, that might be a deal breaker.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[vermontaigne]

Hmmm. Well, how many people have a 'mummy' tattoo? Think it's worth consideration.

 

[AstroKitty]

The tattoos are gang related with the Angels and the skins. I've seen the HFD among friends, it's the division he belongs to (same with the pharaoh). I know that's not much help but it's a Hells Angels tattoo and branch. The swastika and cobweb is Aryan brotherhood and the web means he's served prison time for murder.

That's all I got. I'm pretty hip on tattoo and motorclub symbols.

You're looking for a white male with an extensive prison rap sheet. The Givenchy brand is expensive and one of my favorites. These frames would have been from a high end eye DR and most likely Rx. This wasn't around an era where people wore frames to be hip.

Also his hip and inseam of the jeans is a man that's about 5 ft 10 or so and 165 lbs I'd guess. I haven't read the stats yet but I'm guessing since my guy is about the same and he himself is a skin *a SHARP not a neo nazi skin. I'm a Jew so that wouldn't work out too well if he was*. He's also an outlaw.

I'd look around the South Dakota area for releases. Is it possible he came from the bike run of Sturgis?

 

[AstroKitty]

Hmmm. Well, how many people have a 'mummy' tattoo? Think it's worth consideration.

It's from a motorclub branch. A few people would have gotten the same. It wasn't done in jail though, that's for sure. the line work is too clean and the colors are rather fresh. He's had that tattoo less than 3 years if he was a sun bather.

 

[AstroKitty]

Im thinking the "tag" on his clothes were most likely because he either was in a halfway house upon release, a psych unit or jail. However, with jail they would have used his last name. Psych units often use first name and last initial. Very odd that someone would use a first name. Laundry tags were used in places where several parties lived and laundry would get mixed up. I know in hospice we use first names, psych unit first names and last name initial. Jail is last name almost always or ID #.

I think you're looking for a transient / biker who spent time riding from South Dakota to FL on bike week. He could be from anywhere. His tattoos show a person who spent time in prison. I'm curious if he had track marks or a drug screen?

 

[Ambercat]

It's from a motorclub branch. A few people would have gotten the same. It wasn't done in jail though, that's for sure. the line work is too clean and the colors are rather fresh. He's had that tattoo less than 3 years if he was a sun bather.

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question (please bear in mind I'm not very familiar with tattoos) -- is it possible to tell if the whole tattoo is new or an old one was refreshed/embellished/changed with fresh ink (on top of an old design)? I hope that makes sense.

 

[carbuff]

Speaking of men named Randy, I noticed that Randy McBee has missing teeth and tattoos described as --

yet A LOT of time elapsed between when he was last seen (November 1, 1971, age 23) and when the UID was found, that might be a deal breaker.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

I dunno. The UID's tats make it sound like he could be a neonazi-white separatist type, and many of those guys live underground or in hiding. And you're right, he does resemble the sketch. How do the other stats line up?

 

[AstroKitty]

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question (please bear in mind I'm not very familiar with tattoos) -- is it possible to tell if the whole tattoo is new or an old one was refreshed/embellished/changed with fresh ink (on top of an old design)? I hope that makes sense.

Not a dumb question at all.

Yes you can tell if there is a touch up, cover up or new added to old If someone can post the actual photo of his tattoo (not a sketch), I can look at it. My old man is also a tattoo artist and owns a shop, I'll have him look at it.

But is it possible he landed in FL in October? Biketoberfest is in that area in Oct and then there's Sturgis that runs there too. I know a lot of people think of Daytona only but he was found near Tampa and the Gulf. there's a LOT of things that go on there.

 

[AstroKitty]

SO after much looking:
It's the iron cross with the swastika in front and the rebel flag behind it. Old man says "at least 10 years old with the fading and not from prison". This is a die hard racist but he doesn't have the thunderbolts or the SS so he's not Aryan brotherhood gang related. we have voted biker & with the fading - we think southern state (which makes sense with the rebel flag). We think AL or GA would be a good area to look.

He might have been headed to FL for the holidays. If you go out 12 weeks it would have been thanksgiving. A lot of older people in that area as well. Maybe he was recently released from prison and took the bus to that area to visit family?

I'll look up greyhound stations near his location

 

[AstroKitty]

Here's what I found:
Bus terminal is 19 minutes away
Hillsborough county jail is 27 minutes away
Florida state prison is a straight shot and their bus line goes direct to the terminal that is 19 minutes way from where the body was found.

*Lakeland regional hospital with state health care is 40 minutes away as well.

I think you're looking for a recently released inmate who took the bus - met up with whomever and was taken on the back road to the orchard and executed.

A person doesn't have these sort of tattoos and NOT find trouble. I am sticking with the recently released version of this because of his pants with the standard prison attire (they are "correctional attire*) and name written in them. If he wore his pants that he bought while in jail, his shirt that he wore in .. that would make sense.

"Investigators said the victim was shot twice. They believe his body may have been in the woods anywhere from six months to two years before it was discovered"

that's putting it out at Bike week (6 months). I think it's safe to say this was skeletal remains only.

pants were described as "They are uniform pants with the name "Randy" on them."

I'm really leaning to inmate. A person coming out of a psych facility wouldn't have those pants.

 

[carbuff]

Not a dumb question at all.

Yes you can tell if there is a touch up, cover up or new added to old If someone can post the actual photo of his tattoo (not a sketch), I can look at it. My old man is also a tattoo artist and owns a shop, I'll have him look at it.

But is it possible he landed in FL in October? Biketoberfest is in that area in Oct and then there's Sturgis that runs there too. I know a lot of people think of Daytona only but he was found near Tampa and the Gulf. there's a LOT of things that go on there.

Slightly O/T: if you and he have time, could he take a look at this UID's tattoo and see if he can tell us anything about it? SC SC - Myrtle Beach, WhtFem, (UP11327), 40-50, Dolphin Ankle Tattoo, May'13 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Ambercat]

I dunno. The UID's tats make it sound like he could be a neonazi-white separatist type, and many of those guys live underground or in hiding. And you're right, he does resemble the sketch. How do the other stats line up?

Randy McBee would have been about 41 years old in 1989, which lines up with the age estimate in NamUs (30 - 50 years old). I'm not sure if he is from California originally or from somewhere else (like the South). During the 1960s and early 1970s, a lot of people relocated to California. His height (72") is really off. It looks like he wasn't reported missing until 1975 (if I am understanding his information in NamUs correctly). He is also missing two of his lower front teeth (from looking at his lower removable plate, it looks like the UID was missing three lower front teeth).

 

[carbuff]

Randy McBee would have been about 41 years old in 1989, which lines up with the age estimate in NamUs (30 - 50 years old). I'm not sure if he is from California originally or from somewhere else (like the South). During the 1960s and early 1970s, a lot of people relocated to California. His height (72") is really off. It looks like he wasn't reported missing until 1975 (if I am understanding his information in NamUs correctly). He is also missing two of his lower front teeth (from looking at his lower removable plate, it looks like the UID was missing three lower front teeth).

Well, in that amount of time, he could easily have lost another tooth. The height is more of an issue.

 

[Ambercat]

Not a dumb question at all.

Yes you can tell if there is a touch up, cover up or new added to old If someone can post the actual photo of his tattoo (not a sketch), I can look at it. My old man is also a tattoo artist and owns a shop, I'll have him look at it.

But is it possible he landed in FL in October? Biketoberfest is in that area in Oct and then there's Sturgis that runs there too. I know a lot of people think of Daytona only but he was found near Tampa and the Gulf. there's a LOT of things that go on there.

I think these are the original photos of the tattoos --

 

[AstroKitty]

the thing to keep in mind with tooth loss, you need to factor in the rest of the person. Given his tattoos, clothing with a name in it .. this person has had a rough life at SOME point. I'm going to guess speed played a part with tooth loss, unless it was a fight. I think people often forget how large of a role speed has played since the 60's and how ignorant America was to harsh drug use or Rx abuse. Barbituates and "diet pills" were still in circulation in 1987.

We are looking at a person who probably lived their entire life on the fringe of society, unhappy, in trouble and abusing substances. Normally I'd shy away from such judgements but a spade is a spade. You don't get swastikas, Iron crosses, Rebel flag tattoos because you're a "nice guy". You also don't lose half your teeth by age 40 and have cheap work pants with your name written in marker - if you have a decent income.

You're looking at a criminal who most likely is from some sort of a broken home that obviously feels ties to the south or Southern pride. I have never in my life seen the rebel flag this far up north our out east (and or in LA). I don't think you're looking at the midwest, east coast or west coast. You're looking at GA, TN, AL, Arkansas, KY or FL.

Keep in mind he was estimated to have been in the elements anywhere from 6 months to 1 year. I'm really curious as to what was left for them to make the composites.

 

[AstroKitty]

I think these are the original photos of the tattoos --

In taking apart the last tattoo .. it's these images combined:
the eagle
the iron cross
the swastika
the rebel flag
a crown

You're looking at someone that was probably affiliated with the Klan because there was no mention of SS or thunderbolt tattoos or the number 88. these are all aryan brotherhood symbolization.

A LOT of bikers use the swastika and not for neo nazi reasons but I dont want to get into that.

How on earth do they estimate a year and yet there was flesh with this much detail? Something is very off on the reporting of this.

Im so confused.