GUILTY FL - Shannon Dedrick, 7 mo., Chipley, 31 Oct 2009 #5

[LCoastMom]

Hi everyone...just joined and first of all I want to Thank everyone for there invaluable help in finding Shannon.

Unlike the recent poster I feel that everyone here wants to do good things and the motivation is for the right reasons. So no...I do not get the impression that ya'll have gotten bored with watching HSN or NG and figure this is the next best thing.

I assure you that as a Family we are more than aware of what has happened and how very very wrong it all is. We will Love and stand by Tina but do not think for a second that ANYONE is more important to us than Shannon.

I have heard over and over folks commenting that they would never do this or that and trying to relate there own thinking to the thought process that resides in Tina's mind. That is a key mistake IMO. I dare say that no one here can imagine what went on in Tina's mind. When others describe her as retarded, bi-polar, mentally chalenged etc...they are on the right path but still ....it is more than all that combined. Please just keep that in mind. Not to excuse what has happened but to better understand it.

I have a lot more to say but I think it best if I leave it at this for now.

One last thing...I said this to my Family and want to say it loud and clear here.
"I am so proud of our family...we used our heads, tempered our emotions and proceeded with honesty. And for once virtue and faith prevailed."

Ya see...I grew up in a time of morals, caring Jon Wayne. That is the real America and it still exists...but I will admit makes lousy headlines.

Thank you all!

F.I.T. (how appropriate is that acronym, as you and your family all truly FIT together so beautifully, when you came together for Tina and Shannon. IMO)

I just read the letter to the radio station, and again the tears flow freely.
That you all pulled together and were so strong in the face of what looked like a tragedy, that developed into a miracle on several levels.

Finding Shannon alive and well, beating all odds.

Tina will now be forced to get help that she has resisted for too long and hopefully she will see the love her family obviously has for her.

Hopefully we have not used up all our miracles quite yet, I would still like to see lil Paul found and who ever is responsible brought to justice.

One last thing I hope to see out of this is Sue Baker, out of commission permanently. At the very least she got away with horrendous child abuse to Nina Baker, (IMO 80 days does not fit the crime) more likely she got away with the murder of Paul Baker, a three year old baby she was entrusted to care for and love. Not to mention the tragedy she could have caused putting Shannon in a box, hiding her under the bed. She makes me ill; I don't want to see the book tossed at her, I want the whole darn library dropped on her head.

If she again abused a position of trust, coming across as a loving auntie to Tina and Shannon, while all along she was undermining Tina as Shannon's mommy. If she was lying to her about what was going on with DCF, misleading her into believing she couldn't be a good mommy to Shannon, no matter how hard she tried. (Sending the horrific letter of lies to Gov Crist.) All this leading up to taking Shannon.

There are laws on the books to protect the Tina's of this world, I hope the appropriate charges are filed, if this is the case.

I have a grown daughter who has Borderline Personality, I will not insult you by saying I know how you feel. But I am qualified to say anyone who is not walking in your moccasins beside you, has no idea how they would act, feel think or what they would do. We can only pray, they never find out.

I hope Shannon continues to be a miracle in your family's life and you all stay true to yourself and each other. GOD Bless.

 

[Salem]

missmybaby - thank you for your post 139 - I'm not quoting it, just because of length, but I too feel that Tina must love Shannon. Tina's efforts, as documented in the DCF's report should not go unnoticed. And Tina's attempts to attend parenting classes, as verified by the daughter of one of our own posters (Joy, iirc) who gave Tina a ride home. I just can not tell you how frustrated I get with "normal" parents who swear up and down they want their children back and will do ANYTHING to have it happen and then do nothing......

They won't give up the drugs or go to drug counseling, they do not attend parenting classes, they won't go to therapy, they don't show up for visits or cut visits short or attend and spend the whole time talking on the phone and texting. They don't ask questions of the visiting supervisor about the child's care while in the foster home, the foods they eat, the bath schedule, the school schedule, etc. etc. Very, very frustrating.

I firmly believe Tina was doing the best she could and that somehow SB manipulated her. I believe that because of the DCF report and because of SB and Tab's actions after Shannon was reported missing. I really hope that Tina's family and the Court get the true story of what has happened here and that Tina gets the help she needs.

And I feel pretty confident that little Shannon will have the family she needs. She is surrounded by love.

Salem

 

[2goldfish]

Orb, I agree with some of what you said, but the only one I am going to address is the fingernails.
I can't tell if they were professionally done or a good home job, but if they were done at home, that wouldn't bother me.
I did my nails in the car on the way to AZ to pick up my stepdad's belongings from the apartment he left behind when he died. Why? I have no idea. Odd stress reaction? For some ungodly reason, I started curling my hair while on the phone with the doctor that was telling my that my son's lungs were too weak to function without a nebulizer treatment every few hours.
Some people, if it's a normal part of their routine, would do their nails, makeup, curl their hair etc., it might help alleviate the stress if it seems like something a little closer to normal.

weirdly and not totally OT but I recently read a study showing that makeup and hair doing things lower cortisol (stress hormone) levels. not surprised in the least people do things like this under stress. (if anyone needs a link PM me, I am sure I can find it again...I read it with great interest cause I feel it justifies my lipgloss addiction :biglaugh

 

[Salem]

Orb, I agree with some of what you said, but the only one I am going to address is the fingernails.
I can't tell if they were professionally done or a good home job, but if they were done at home, that wouldn't bother me.
I did my nails in the car on the way to AZ to pick up my stepdad's belongings from the apartment he left behind when he died. Why? I have no idea. Odd stress reaction? For some ungodly reason, I started curling my hair while on the phone with the doctor that was telling my that my son's lungs were too weak to function without a nebulizer treatment every few hours.
Some people, if it's a normal part of their routine, would do their nails, makeup, curl their hair etc., it might help alleviate the stress if it seems like something a little closer to normal.

This is the only thing I'm going to say about "personal appearances." I agree with NMK and 2goldfish that painting nails, curling hair, etc. can help lower stress, keep hands busy while the mind is swirling, etc. but I also think it is very important to point out that anyone that finds themselves in a situation where they have to deal with LE, CPS, the Media, etc. would do well to make sure they look as "professional" as possible. I think it would be one of my priorities, myself. I would not want anyone to patronize me, talk down to me or assume that I "couldn't handle the truth" because of my appearance. I would do everything I could to make sure I had the respect of all of these agencies so that they would work with me and that would include putting on makeup, combing my hair and either doing my nails or having them done. I would wear the NICEST clothes I owned and I would make sure the clothes were clean and pressed. There is no time in such a situation for not presenting the best that you can. If LE mis-judges your character because you can't get a comb through your hair, you will have to work hard to get past it and, in my opinion, at this point LE is most likely to say things like "don't worry about, dear" or "we have it under control" or what ever else it is they say because they think you can't handle the details of the investigation.

Just my opinion,

Salem

 

[pinkpuddytat]

we were told that if Tina could brush her teeth and tie her shoes then she was capable of being a mother. And I do not stretch the truth one iota with that statement.

That is SO scary, and I don't doubt for a moment that some social worker actually said that to you. I expect at least 90% of the kids in foster care can brush their teeth and tie their shoelaces (including a lot of 3 and 4 year olds), so what do they need to be in foster care for, if they're already capable of being parents themselves??

Grrrrrrrrr!!!

 

[simlyme]

F.I.T. (how appropriate is that acronym, as you and your family all truly FIT together so beautifully, when you came together for Tina and Shannon. IMO)

. Not to mention the tragedy she could have caused putting Shannon in a box, hiding her under the bed. She makes me ill; I don't want to see the book tossed at her, I want the whole darn library dropped on her head.


Im feeling a little confused with the downplay of the word "tragedy".

Tragedy does not have to end with death.

Tragedy is exactly what baby Shannon has been put through,nothing less!

Tragedy is *an event resulting in great loss and misfortune*,

Shannon has lost everything she was entitled to as a child, her parents,her grandparents,her home,etc. Thats the way I see and feel it.

I am absolutely sure that putting a baby in a box under a bed is tragic(for the baby),also being raised by someone who is high can have nothing less than a tragic result(for the baby),

so maybe I didnt word it right but this poor little one has had nothing but tragedy in her short life,what is a miracle is that she is alive, still doesnt mean this was/is not a tragedy.

This tragedy will play out in Shannons life for the rest of her life.

 

[mysterygirl]

MG,

Please don't take this as a criticism directed at you, I keep reading this same comment and just want to be sure we don't give the impression that Tina doesn't love Shannon.

From everything we read from DCF, pediatrician and neighbors; I have seen nothing that makes me think Shannon was not well loved in her home. Moreover I saw signs that she was very loved, by the notes saying the parents continued to follow thru on what was asked of them.

The pediatrician who had nothing bad to say about the care and follow up from Tina. His front desk staff, who I have found in the past at other offices have a tendency to be extremely critical of parents who don't meet the criteria they personally establish, only said Shannon wasn't always the cleanest baby in the office but that Tina was very good about following thru on Shannon's office visits.

I think Tina was in way over her head, Sue Baker found this as an opportunity to move in and take advantage. We have no idea what thoughts and idea's she was feeding Tina. But it is very obvious that while Tina was in an impossible situation, Sue Baker was doing nothing to help and she eventually wore her down.

Many, many parents who love their baby more than themselves, give their child up for adoption, so the child can have a better life. Since we weren't on this ride from day one, we have no idea what went on in Tina's mind for the last seven months, possibly making her think this was the right thing to do.

Possibly even realizing her mistake in the light of day, yet fearing she would be in trouble for giving Shannon away, she may have even asked Sue to give the baby back and being denied, she did the only thing that made sense to her at the time, by reporting her missing. Then spending 4 days not telling LE the truth, out of fear she was going to get in trouble. All the while wanting LE to figure it out and reclaim Shannon for her.

Hopefully this all comes out and Sue, now a 3 time loser if they tie her to lil Paul, will never see the light of day.

No offense taken and I should have been more clear.

I can see that outside of her immediate family....she is loved, there are relatives who care and want to correct mistakes and make sure she is put first.

I think that Sue is evil and the most culpable in this case. Tina was most likely manipulated.

 

[chaniilove]

Has anyone heard from family or Chaniilove today? My heart just goes out to them. I know this is so hard for them.

Hi Doggies, sorry I havn't been on WS but I got too far behind and couldn't catch up...I was talking in wmbb live chat though and there were some sleuthers there relaying if I or family said anything important, so I feel I was well represented by those great ladies I'm still trying to get caught up on WS here

Rachel (Chaniilove)

 

[chaniilove]

What I don't get is we know nothing about the extent of Tina's disability and yet she is already being protected. At this point, we have no verification that there is anything at all wrong with her.
We also know, if her statement to the neighbor was true, that she has verbal skills and can make herself understood. She has the ability to question her surroundings. she has the ability to question events.

So, if she has these abilities, she has the ability to understand that she was perpetrating a massive lie. Even very young children can understand that if you have to lie about it, you shouldn't be doing it. Which means that she could understand that what she was doing was wrong. This makes her culpable in my mind.
Mother was party to this. All of it. For 5 days, she perpetrated a lie which could have resulted in Shannon's death. She may be less guilty of the abuse itself, but she is still guilty, IMO.

I really am interested in hearing why others think that Shannon should not be permanently removed from her mother's care. I don't want to argue with anybody, I just don't understand the viewpoint, and if someone can explain it, I'm all ears.

ETA: This post has been edited since the information about Tina's bipolar disorder cannot be verified at this time.

If you do some research from child psychologists on this point, you will find that they say that young children confronted with having done somthing wrong may either lie or actually convince themselves that it didn't occur. They will deny with all conviction, even when faced with evidence right down to a video of them doing what they did wrong. That doesn't make them culpable, that makes them scared of reprocussion and mentally unable to handle that stress and make the right decision on telling the truth or what to do about the original issue. It is recommended that you never ask a young child if they did something you know they did, as it allows the opportunity for them to lie, but to instead tell them that you know what happened (explain what it was) and then explain what they should have done or not done to properly resolve the situation.

Also...none of us know the current extent of Tina's mental situation so we cannot clearly relay it. From what I have heard of her mothers conversations with her she is worse off than she has ever been, to the point of being incoherent. We defend her not only because she is family, but primarily because we do not yet know her level of culpability in this situation, and if you recall we are all supposed to be innocent until proven guilty/culpable and this has not yet been done in her case, so while I understand questioning her involvement, if you condemn her before the full situation is revealed you are denying her her rights. We do not disagree that she should never have had a baby at all, nor that she should have had custody of the baby when she did have her, but reproducing and being a parent is another right that we all have. My husband says that you have to pass a test to drive a car but not to be a parent. He is right, not everyone should be a parent, but regardless we are all given that right and the opportunity to prove that we deserve it. Tina had dcf watching them and checking in, and they always did what they were told to do and if you read the report it says they Tina asked questions of the workers about what they could do in certain situations, to try and learn to be better parents. I know plenty of people who had parents who couldn't have cared less about how to be a good parent, I think she should get credit for at least trying to learn. Though we don't know the situation I think that the theory that SB convinced her that she would be saving the baby from DCF and foster care and the horrid system (not calling it that, saying what SB might have said to scare Tina about them) and in that situation Tina was doing what she thought was best for the baby, how could trying to save your child ever be considered the wrong thing, it is not her fault if she was not mentally able to determine what the best thing was. The best intentions often have negative outcomes. Albert Camus once said "Good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.” I'm not saying she didn't do the wrong thing, but that she may not have been able to determine what the right thing was, and that is not her fault. Tina didn't know about SBs past, neither did most of that town or I'm sure SB wouldn't have been babysitting as many peoples children there as she was. People with much more mental capacity than Tina were fooled by that woman, why is it so hard for you to beleive she was too, and that her diminished capacity was taken advantage of?
I don't expect my words to change anyones mind, I just hope that you will stop condemning her until we know the truth or more of it, at least.

PS. I can't even beleive the comment about my aunts fingernails. I couldn't think of anything less important in this situation. There have already been plenty of people defending and offering possible reasons, and I appreciate as always the defense we get from the majority of the people on this forum. I agree most with the person who said that professional appearance is necessary to be taken seriously in some situations. I will add that my aunt always maintains a professional appearance as a small business owner with her husband, in a business which also deals alot with law enforcement. Regardless of the reason...perhaps that poster should put their obvious attention to detail into more important things...we have enough unanswered questions about Shannon and Paul/Nina's cases without questioning why my Aunts nails looked well manicured.

 

[chaniilove]

I can't speak for anyone else, but raising a child who is developmentally delayed I know that his cognitive ability can appear to vary depending on the situation/subject. I also know that he can be easily manipulated (which scares the hell out of me). Because he walks fine (but hemiparetic) and speaks clearly, people automatically assume he should comprehend like a 15 year and it's just not possible for him.

Thank you for sharing this insight Carrie and *hugs* to you. I don't think anyone who hasn't dealt with a person like this personally can understand, I just wish they would stop judging before knowing the extent of the situation.

 

[chaniilove]

I keep seeing TM being referred to as being bi-polar. The only place I have seen that claim was in SB's email to the gov. SB certainly isn't qualified to make that determination. Was there an official diagnosis somewhere along the line? There have been so many details though I may have missed more about the bi-polar disorder.

She was diagnosed as bi polar and developmentally disabled. Her developmental disabilities are the reason for her SSI income, as they make her unable to hold even a simple job. She also has adhd and I beleive another disorder, I can't recall. She was on prescription medication from a dr for her bipolar disorder.

 

[Carpe Pacem]

Channilove, thank you for the extremely articulate and intelligent response, with which I completely agree. What an outstanding and compassionate family member you are!

 

[chaniilove]

I thought she looked tiny in her mug shot, (head) in comparison to SB. Now that I have seen other pics, I don't see her as tiny. Your mind is fine!

She is small but has gained weight since before she was pregnant, as alot of women do due to hormonal changes. When she was younger she could eat all day and not gain an ounce...in school they watched her at lunch because they thought she was giving her food away to make people like her (a very small example of how easily coerced she is), because she would not gain weight and was very skinny. She was a couple of inches shorter than me...hard to say for sure how tall because she had a bit of afro hair that probably added a few inches (no exageration, i will look for pictures) but she was probably around 4 ft 8-4 ft 10. She weighed 67 lbs at that height. Even now, with some meat on her bones, she is still tiny in structure stature and height. I would wager that she still weighs under 100 lbs, based on how she looks and her height. I would consider that pretty small, but thats just me

 

[chaniilove]

Today I was talking to a foster mother at school. The baby she had had been a preemie and neglected. The baby has allot of problems due to the parents being on drugs.
Even her eye sight.......almost blind.
Well the baby is alittle over 4 months and weighs 12 pounds. As I watched the baby it played with hands and bubbles with mouth. Moved to look at people when we talked.
Had a grin here and there. A very big difference then the 7 month old Shannon.
Shannon hasn't had the love and care and humane treatment. It's big time noticeable, IMO.

Shes scared and away from the people she is used to day to day. Even a 7 mo old knows when somthing big is going on and i am sure she is intimidated by it. All her neighbors and people who saw her frequently said she was always happy smiling and not crying. I would base your opinions more on what she was like before all this happened. I wouldnt be very happy after coming out of 12 hours in a little box either, and god knows what else over the 4 days prior.

 

[chaniilove]

Tina may be mentally challenged, bu IMO, she knows right from wrong and IMO, the 'confusion' is just LIES..........

1 minute in that coffin box was 1 min. to long for anyone!
Let alone 12+ hours!!!IMO, I would love to see these 2 women in a box like that for
longer than 12 hours, diapered, in the dark....oh don't forget a box of baking soda and extra padding just to muffle their sounds................JMOO

Again...the sheriff said Tina had nothing to do with Shannon being in that box, she hadn't had contact with SB since the baby was missing. SB is a monster, for that and other reasons. All we know about Tina's involvement so far is that for whatever reason they beleive she gave the baby to SB because SB asked for her. At that point SB and Tab started pointing fingers trying to convince everyone that Tina killed/buried the baby and they intended to know who knows what with Shannon in the end, but I would say by their actions they weren't planning a happy reunion with Tina once the heat was off, though that is likely what Tina beleived.

 

[chaniilove]

Sorry for the string of replies but I gave up on trying to read all the past 3 threads I missed (got behind on the 2nd one) and just read this one to get the latest, and there were a few posts I had to respond to. I will try to stay caught up from now on, and FIT and I will keep you all posted if there are any new developments.

BTW Thank you so much to the poster who has again opened their home and heart to my Aunt and cousins while they continue to deal with ensuring Shannon's future welbeing and happiness. I beleive it is MFCMOM, sorry if I have your name wrong, but our entire family thanks you wholeheartedly for your compassion and kindness! *hugs* From us all, and more thanks than we can express!

Rachel

 

[octobermoon]

Channii,
Please forgive me if my post sound disrespectful, I was answering another poster.
I am so happy for you and your family and most of all Shannon.

 

[chaniilove]

Channii,
Please forgive me if my post sound disrespectful, I was answering another poster.
I am so happy for you and your family and most of all Shannon.

Not at all, I was just offering another possibility for why she seems so non-reactive, aside from the assumption that she wasn't shown affection or good care.

Rachel

 

[octobermoon]

Are you getting updates from the foster family/state on how Shannon is doing? I am
not asking for the details, just pray that you all are being kept well informed.

 

[chaniilove]

Are you getting updates from the foster family/state on how Shannon is doing? I am
not asking for the details, just pray that you all are being kept well informed.

Tinas mom and sisters got to spend alot of the day with her the other day, but yesterday she had alot of dr visits so they couldnt see her, they will get to see her again tomorrow but they said she is alert and doing well, and the foster family caring for her right now is very kind and medically trained. There was a paternity dna test ordered but i dont expect Rusty to not be the father, Tabs claims that tina was pregnant when they (tm and rb) met were false, if I remember my timeline correctly. I'm pretty sure I remember talking to her about Rusty before I moved, and I moved over a yr and a half ago...she just got pregnant 14 months ago...so there was at least a few months with him before she got pregnant. I do hope he isn't though, that would simplify the custody issue alot.