FL - Tracy Ocasio, 27, Orlando/Ocoee, 27 May 2009 - #2

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Connecting Starke w Prima Vista Lakes is a canal... hmm wonder if they checked that out. Just keep thinking about where this crime scene could have been. Even an abandoned house isn't as suitable as somewhere farther out... a secluded park for instance where the conspicuous vehicle wouldn't be spotted... somewhere familiar where he knew no screams could be heard and would have an available disposal site right there... At first I thought he might have talked her into stopping off at some park not far from his hunting ground near Raleigh (ie Charter Lake, or Lake Hiawassee) and attacked her there. But most of which lake access is private gated communities from what I can tell, and too visible and risky. A more plausible scenario would be he dragged his prey across town to his comfort zone under the guise of a ride home, where he suggests they drive around the corner and smoke some (maybe Bill Breeze Park just minutes away, left at the end of Oakland) but even that was too exposed, out in the open. No on second thought maybe a righthand turn on Lakeshore which appears to virtually deadend at the canal. Just a thought (albeit a creepy one) W/out street view of any of the lakefront or even sidestreets tho I guess we need a local to tell us more about this canal access.

:parrot:
 
Wow , just saw Tracy's web page http://www.tracyocasio.com/updates.php
The phone company gave more detailed info about the distance away from the tower, .21 miles for the 8:30 am ping. I don't know if it's been searched but there is a street drain on Franklin jut a few feet west of the entrance of Lyle street the has that coordinace. Anyway i updated Bonds map with a .21 circle. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=104911739131657185086.00046ca500eb1ac9ed26e&t=h&ll=28.573122,-81.552393&spn=0.009441,0.013754&z=16
 
He could have taken it home and turned it off to dispose of later that day.

We need to get busy and spread this case out in the forum! (I will try to help on that today, but my computer troubles make it slow going and I get very frustrated.)
 
So I believe people are creatures of habit. The girl that got away said she drove him to his home, which was actually where he was living at the time. When they hugged goodnight in the car he tried to break her neck. This makes me think that maybe TO drove JH to his house on Lyle street but he actually did break her neck then drove her someplace disposed of the body and car. If her cell phone never ping anywhere else after 1:30am then She has got to be in the area around his house. I agree the storm drains should be searched.
 
Yes please keep this case alive and going until we find Tracy. I plead to all that are reading this to contact the following offices, and request that the FBI get called. Thank you from the extended Ocasio family.

Office of Attorney General
State of Florida
The Capitol PL - 01
Tallahassee, FL. 32399-1050

FBI
6061 Gate Parkway
Jacksonville, FL. 32256

Office of Governor Charlie Crist
State of California
THe Capitol
400 S.Monroe St.
Tallahassee, FL. 32399-0001
 
warbuckle said:
So I believe people are creatures of habit. The girl that got away said she drove him to his home, which was actually where he was living at the time. When they hugged goodnight in the car he tried to break her neck. This makes me think that maybe TO drove JH to his house on Lyle street but he actually did break her neck then drove her someplace disposed of the body and car. If her cell phone never ping anywhere else after 1:30am then She has got to be in the area around his house. I agree the storm drains should be searched.
Click to expand...

(bbm) If JVH drove TO's body anywhere, it wasn't in her car... again, cadavers did not alert in her Cobalt.

:parrot:
 
If JH did murder TO I believe he would have done that within the hour after they left the Tap Room. So, to what cell tower does her cell phone pings belong around the time of 2:30 am to 3:30 am or so? I understand that her cobalt did not cause the cadaver dogs to alert. So, he must have taken her somewhere, did his evil deed, and then disposed of her body before he got back into her car and drove it to his neighborhood where he parked it. I know some here have worked on charting pings, etc. Is there any idea of where those pings came from at those hours? It always amazes me how a perp can hide a body so thoroughly - maybe only another evil mind can think like another evil mind. The rest of us can figure it out, but it takes much thought and consideration,
 
kiki the parrot said:
(bbm) If JVH drove TO's body anywhere, it wasn't in her car... again, cadavers did not alert in her Cobalt.

:parrot:
Click to expand...

Yes, I am fully aware cadaver dogs did not alert on her car. But how soon can they pick up a smell. If you killed someone and then drove 5 or 10 minuetes away is that enough time for decomp to start and have cadaver dogs pick up a scent. I don't think so but if you have some info that says differently please let me know.
 
warbuckle said:
Yes, I am fully aware cadaver dogs did not alert on her car. But how soon can they pick up a smell. If you killed someone and then drove 5 or 10 minuetes away is that enough time for decomp to start and have cadaver dogs pick up a scent. I don't think so but if you have some info that says differently please let me know.
Click to expand...

Also, I know there was a lot of discussion about this in the CA case. If he killed her outside of the car and then spent a certain amount of time disposing of the body, then got back in her car and drove it back to where it was found, would there be any transference, if you will, of decomp scent, from his clothing to the interior of the car? If so, then would this not indicate that they drove to where the car was found, they exited the car, he did his deed, and then did not get back in the car (possibly because of a prior theory here that he lost the keys)? Wonder if he did laundry that morning, or was more careful even than that since the dogs did not alert in his house either, IIRC.
 
warbuckle said:
Yes, I am fully aware cadaver dogs did not alert on her car. But how soon can they pick up a smell. If you killed someone and then drove 5 or 10 minuetes away is that enough time for decomp to start and have cadaver dogs pick up a scent. I don't think so but if you have some info that says differently please let me know.
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing. I tried researching it last night. I found this:

Fresh remains (first stage), whether they are burned or not, include
flesh with little change to the surface or exterior of the body.
There is no discoloration of the body. Within the body, bacteria are
hard at work decomposing tissues. No smell is obvious to humans,
but dogs will be able to detect fresh remains from a distance.
Click to expand...

http://www.searchdogs.org/articles/Canine HR.pdf

I am still pondering how soon after death a scent can be detected by a cadaver dog (minutes, hours???)....
 
warbuckle said:
are you talking about SAWDUST CIR 5/27/09 205326 SUSP INCIDENT 002009017539? This was at at 8pm? What does that mean and who lives on sawdust cir?
Click to expand...

I was referring to this on page 58:

WYOMING CT 5/27/09 180356 911 HANG UP 002009017520

Refer to Bond's map on post #82 (Breathelife)
 
Harmony2 said:
I was referring to this on page 58:

WYOMING CT 5/27/09 180356 911 HANG UP 002009017520

Refer to Bond's map on post #82 (Breathelife)
Click to expand...

So Hutto lives on that street, but why would someone from his house call at 6pm. We aren't even sure it was his house, just the same street.
 
The people said they heard her car pull up early in the morning on the 27ths. She had a phone call from her cell at 4:30am
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Let me see...she tried to take some credit for finding Caylee, which we know isn't true. Outside of that...I can't honestly tell you of one person she located.

I have no respect for GSJ and nor do I believe she will find anything in this search for Tracy. She needs to stay away from high profile cases. IMO, she is only a side show to any investigation.
Click to expand...

Actually, GSJ did find the remains of one person. Before her career began, there was a missing person in her hometown in Ohio (I think it was Toledo...can't remember for sure) that she happened to find. Thus began her psychic career and she hasn't found anyone since. :waitasec:
 
There is something that has been bothering me terribly about this case. So much wonderful work has been done with the maps, and pings, etc. What is bothering me is whether anyone knows whether there are any large commercial dumpsters close to the area where JH lived? (Although I lived in Orlando 21 years, I lived out by UCF, so I am not familiar with the other side of town re: side streets, etc.) Specifically, he could have taken Tracy to a commercial parking lot located in the back of a business, and then disposed of the body in a dumpster right there. Isn't there a large Home Depot, and a Lowe's not far from JH's father's house? I am not grreat with maps like those of you who have posted them here, but does the Home Depot on west 50 (and Lowes also on that road) correspond to the areas you guys have mapped? It just bothers me how someone could dispose of a body so thoroughly that no trace is found, unless a dumpster was used. Just some questions I have been pondering.
 
Harmony2 said:
I was wondering the same thing. I tried researching it last night. I found this:



http://www.searchdogs.org/articles/Canine HR.pdf

I am still pondering how soon after death a scent can be detected by a cadaver dog (minutes, hours???)....
Click to expand...

Used to assist in training them with an FDLE certified trainer. They can detect the scent within MINUTES - very few minutes - if she was deceased in that car, they would have detected it no doubt.

Re: the link with the information. If it helps I believe the times are listed in military time.
 
mombomb said:
Also, I know there was a lot of discussion about this in the CA case. If he killed her outside of the car and then spent a certain amount of time disposing of the body, then got back in her car and drove it back to where it was found, would there be any transference, if you will, of decomp scent, from his clothing to the interior of the car? If so, then would this not indicate that they drove to where the car was found, they exited the car, he did his deed, and then did not get back in the car (possibly because of a prior theory here that he lost the keys)? Wonder if he did laundry that morning, or was more careful even than that since the dogs did not alert in his house either, IIRC.
Click to expand...

Even had JVH found it necessary to handle TO's remains (and this is assuming he was the one to dispose of her body), it seems there are ways in which a perp could avoid transference--and particularly if water were involved. Or what if victim were drugged and then put in water? I was one of those posters who worked on CA re cadaver dogs. It is amazing cadaver dogs can pick up the scent of deceased w/in minutes--where gases have been forming for as little as two minutes--with amazing accuracy. The success rate of which only slightly diminishes relative to the amount of time body is in contact w that location (thus presumably diminished by transference). Reposting this study here.

"One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out--of a line-up of six new carpet squares--the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded cadaver dogs are an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...es-835047.html

:parrot:
 
So, this would indicate that TO was not deceased in the car. Would this not mean that had JVH been in contact with TO's corpse outside the car, then there would have been transference to his person? If so, then, he would have had to wash or dispose of his clothes as there were apparently no dog hits in his house. So many things that make you wonder. Wish the dogs could have checked his friends' houses too.

Also, if it had been a scenario similar to his alleged prior assault where he attacked the woman in the street, would the dogs not have picked up on that when they sniffed the car and his house?

This would all lead one to believe that whatever happened did not happen there and that whoever did it did not drive the car after.

It seems that JVH is very smart or very lucky.
 
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