GUILTY FL - Voncile Smith, 77, & two sons brutally murdered, Pensacola, 28 July 2015 *Arrest*

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Cappuccino said:
The persistent myth that Wiccans practice ritual murder is something that should have been consigned to the dustbin of history by now, along with the old myth that Jews kidnap Christian children to kill them and use their blood for the Passover feast.
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I thought it had been. I'm shocked this sheriff is allowed to talk like this without anyone calling him out on it.
 
bluesneakers said:
I thought it had been. I'm shocked this sheriff is allowed to talk like this without anyone calling him out on it.
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Bigotry against minority religions is extraordinary in its persistence, as is the inability to tell the difference between them. There was a Sikh murdered in revenge for 9/11 and more recently a massacre at a Sikh temple by an anti-muslim bigot who thought he was attacking a mosque . There are people who still think Satanists and Wiccans are the same thing, and even people who still think that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is really a Jewish document.

I agree though, it is shocking to find that ignorance coming from a Sheriff.
 
The reporting on this case really bothers me. It detracts severely from what is important, which is that three people were murdered, and the poi is someone who they seem to suspect for no other reason than he is a "practitioner". Even if the perp drew crescents on their foreheads and covered them in mistletoe, it doesn't matter unless they have actual evidence linking the man to the crime. It doesn't matter if he is a "practitioner" of any religion, believes in aliens, owns a cat or likes Disney films (I don't know if any of those things are true) other than the insight it gives us into his state of mind, and if it turns out he did kill them, that just tells me he is unhinged and needs an eval. The media sensationalizing it as a ritual killing is deplorable. I hope it doesn't turn into another Damien Echols witch hunt.
 
"Blue moon" is not solely associated with wiccans by any means.
Very strange... Lots of folks being attacked by hammers.
Fans of Dexter will remember the Trinity killer.
Wtf maybe the moon does bring out the crazies.
 
bluesneakers said:
I'm curious about the different factions of witchcraft he mentioned. I know Wiccans who don't participate in ritualistic killings, and even cartoon witches don't kill people with hammers. Does he mean Santeria? Which I don't know a whole lot about but I don't believe it involves killing people with hammers and slitting their throats.
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My guess is that he does mean Santeria. That doesn't mean the murderer actually practices Santeria, but something about the case reminds LE of some Santeria elements. I don't know what.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Santeria, but it is practiced by some people where I live. Around here, there are sometimes animal heads left in parks, food arranged in parks, and animal tongues nailed to trees (which I understand either wards off people who are about to testify or protects people against gossip and testimonies).

I'm guessing LE is learning toward a Santeria-type ritual (or look-alike ritual) more than Wicca...but I could be completely off base as well.
 
Cappuccino said:
The persistent myth that Wiccans practice ritual murder is something that should have been consigned to the dustbin of history by now, along with the old myth that Jews kidnap Christian children to kill them and use their blood for the Passover feast.
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Glad I never heard that one! A lamb shank is traditional. It was lamb's blood put on the doorways to mark the Jewish homes for Passover.
 
Keefer said:
"Blue moon" is not solely associated with wiccans by any means.
Very strange... Lots of folks being attacked by hammers.
Fans of Dexter will remember the Trinity killer.
Wtf maybe the moon does bring out the crazies.
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That's the etymology of the word "lunatic" from lunar, meaning moon.
 
Inthedetails said:
My guess is that he does mean Santeria. That doesn't mean the murderer actually practices Santeria, but something about the case reminds LE of some Santeria elements. I don't know what.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Santeria, but it is practiced by some people where I live. Around here, there are sometimes animal heads left in parks, food arranged in parks, and animal tongues nailed to trees (which I understand either wards off people who are about to testify or protects people against gossip and testimonies).

I'm guessing LE is learning toward a Santeria-type ritual (or look-alike ritual) more than Wicca...but I could be completely off base as well.
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Isn't Santeria part of Voodoo, rather than Witchcraft?
 
Inthedetails said:
To some people, the words mean the same thing.

But, I'm no expert on any of it. :)
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"American Horror Story: Coven" featured both witches and voodoo priestesses. Maybe that's how our sheriff got confused.
 
Keefer said:
"Blue moon" is not solely associated with wiccans by any means.
Very strange... Lots of folks being attacked by hammers.
Fans of Dexter will remember the Trinity killer.
Wtf maybe the moon does bring out the crazies.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I can say that, in over a quarter-century's close association with Wicca and Wiccans plus quite a lot of reading (and a B.A. in religious studies), I've never heard one thing about a "blue moon" celebration. Much less so-called sacrifices, at that time or any other.

At most, nature-loving people might say at a blue moon (like they would for the Perseid meteor shower or during an eclipse), "Oh, cool. We should watch it... well, if we're awake and the kids don't have to get up early for school." Only it's less likely, since a blue moon isn't actually blue, or unique in any way. It's just a moon occurring every few years, the second full moon in a calendar month, which happens because we have mostly 30/31 day months and the moon is full every 29-ish days or so.

I realize Nancy Grace (thankfully) said the police in this case were not referring to Wiccans. However, the term "witchcraft," which she and others used over and over, will still inevitably be associated with Wiccans who do generally identify as witches. Also, the people who chose the images for NG's report have a lot to answer for. Incense, candles, and altars are in themselves indications of some dangerous version of the "occult" or ritual crime...srsly?! (I also glimpsed goblets, crystal balls, and other innocuous new age or neopagan symbols in the stock footage.)

It's pure ignorance. Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and who knows how many more religions—not to mention the vast majority of benign occultists!—ALL use incense, candles, altars, and various symbols that may seem esoteric to outsiders. That's over a billion people. And it indicates nothing criminal.
 
Such a sad, sad story. Three people innocent people are dead!

These two quotes really stood out to me from a TV article! I think they are very important

"Voncile’s husband recently passed away from dementia, relatives told News 5, and it had a deep impact on the family."

"However, relatives did tell News 5 there is a third son — the oldest of the three — who has been interviewed by detectives."

http://wjbf.com/2015/08/05/relatives-discuss-witchcraft-triple-murder/

Rest In Peace...Voncile Smith, Richard Smith and John Smith!
 
I respectfully disagree, as I have personal & educational training for both vodun (voodoo) hoodoo & Santeria. I doubt that it's Wiccan. Palo Mayombe's darker, more blood-thirsty cultists would have taken body parts for their ollas. Vodun & Santeria are not the same religion. They may have some similarities in their use of synchrization of religions, such as Carib or Yoruba with Catholicism. To some authors it's a mixing of an animistic religion with Christianity brought to the colonies along with the Diaspora & European emigration.
 
Mustang Sally said:
These two quotes really stood out to me from a TV article! I think they are very important

"Voncile’s husband recently passed away from dementia, relatives told News 5, and it had a deep impact on the family."

"However, relatives did tell News 5 there is a third son — the oldest of the three — who has been interviewed by detectives."

http://wjbf.com/2015/08/05/relatives-discuss-witchcraft-triple-murder/
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Thank you Mustang Sally. That answered the next question I had circling around in my head: were there other siblings, or maybe adult grandchildren? Given the age of the mother, 77, and the concurrent deaths of two sons, I wondered if there could be an inheritance dispute of some kind.

The fact that the father of the family recently passed away makes me wonder even more. Maybe the terms of a will or a life insurance policy came to light, and made someone very angry...

If so, it's possible there was something occult-ish about the slayings, but it was staged in an attempt to redirect suspicion away from the actual perp.

Just some theorizing.
 
One of the sons worked for the Dept of Homeland Security - he was the only victim who was shot. I wonder if these murders were in some way related to his work.
 
Cappuccino said:
One of the sons worked for the Dept of Homeland Security - he was the only victim who was shot. I wonder if these murders were in some way related to his work.
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I think the sheriff's exact wording was, "he was a critical member of the department of homeland security." Richard Smith was in fact an expert in cyber security. The sheriff contacted the Feds and apparently was told his death was not connected to his job. How they knew this so soon after the deaths is beyond me...
You cannot sleuth the victims on websleuths and the poi that has been mentioned by le has not been named. So good luck figuring this one out.
 
tlcya said:
The “ritualistic” element isn’t totally clear. Morgan [URL="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/08/04/sheriff-triple-

http://gawker.com/cops-say-ritualistic-triple-murder-may-be-tied-to-blu-1722211117

I am truly puzzling over the positioning of the bodies and how that factors into deciding these killings were part of a Wiccan ritual.

Blunt force trauma and slit throats is a horribly violent method to kill someone but not a Wiccan thing?

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I snipped most of your post to respond to the bold above. TIA

The straight up answer is nothing with this crime relates to a Wiccan ritual. If a family was murdered, then nailed to a cross, that would not be a Christian ritual.

This act was carried out by an evil person/s. Personally I am very upset with this crime being described as a Wiccan/Pagan ritual.
 
okay I went though my book of "5000 Spells" and nothing about killing anyone with a hammer, slit throats and gun. Has to be more to the story than we are getting. I read that the neighbors felt they were nearly recluses, and never seen out. Well that describes most of my neighbors and us, as it is either raining or so hot you don't want to go out.
 
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