FLDS compound in Texas Court proceedings ONLY please!!!!!

[mollymalone]

I would imagine that there's a real concern on the part of the FLDS men that if those children start talking, they might expose ritual abuse - physical and sexual abuse.

If the authorities find that some of the children are alone at the YFZ ranch and their biological parents are in other FLDS communities in other states, that might open up those communities to closer scrutiny and the parents in those other communities to being charged with abandonment and participating in transporting children across state lines for the purpose of sex.

Question for everyone..............do you think any of those children will be allowed to return to the YFZ ranch?

Seriously, I don't know. It's going to depend on what was found at the ranch that proves the other children are at risk. Those that they can prove are underage and/or were abused, I doubt if they'll go back.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Seriously, I don't know. It's going to depend on what was found at the ranch that proves the other children are at risk. Those that they can prove are underage and/or were abused, I doubt if they'll go back.

I beleive that none will be returned. Due to the fact the kids are bound to be abused when returned home. With all the evidence they found and all the kids being pregnant, I highly doubt they will be returned.

 

[mollymalone]

I found someone who was actually put into the mental institution because she acted out.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Health/story?id=987099&page=1

As a teen, Laurene was married to an older man chosen by the sect named Val Jessop. He had already married Laurene's sister, so Laurene says she knew him "a bit." But she adds, "I always felt like I was an intruder." Laurene says Marie was bitterly jealous from day one, and was even present when she and her husband consummated the marriage. "He invited her into our bed," Laurene said. "She just hugged his back -- hugged him all the way through. Laurene says Marie soon began mistreating her children. She adds that Val did nothing to stop it, so she began acting out -- and he called the cops. She was taken to a mental institution in Flagstaff, Ariz., more than 200 miles away. The police were not interested in her side of the story, Laurene said."

"She was sent to the institution three more times."

Edited to add: She and others were sexually abused by her father, who has never thought that he did anything wrong.

 

[mollymalone]

I beleive that none will be returned. Due to the fact the kids are bound to be abused when returned home. With all the evidence they found and all the kids being pregnant, I highly doubt they will be returned.

I can't see them returning any of them given that factor. But you never know. Question is, how many of the older boys or girls will return to the sect when they're old enough or able to run away? Or the flds members find out where they are and retrieve them or intimidate them into going back.

 

[barb0301]

I would imagine that there's a real concern on the part of the FLDS men that if those children start talking, they might expose ritual abuse - physical and sexual abuse.

If the authorities find that some of the children are alone at the YFZ ranch and their biological parents are in other FLDS communities in other states, that might open up those communities to closer scrutiny and the parents in those other communities to being charged with abandonment and participating in transporting children across state lines for the purpose of sex.

Question for everyone..............do you think any of those children will be allowed to return to the YFZ ranch?

No, I don't think they will be allowed to return. At the very least, they won't be allowed to return for a very, very long time.

 

[mollymalone]

Leila, I think those men are more concerned by the fact that their bottom line in their finances is going to hurt. If each of them have several of their wives emoved along with the children, there goes the welfare funds. They're more concerned by the fact that if abuse is proven they will go to jail. I think some of the women are worried about that as well, given that they did nothing to report or stop the abuse.

 

[mollymalone]

This is the problem with the men in that community:
This is Lauren's father, who was convicted on the abuse and spent time in jail.

"He said at the time he didn't view his fondling of his daughters as abuse. It wasn't sexual, he said, claiming it was "on the same premise as our religion." "I had the idea that I was the big boss," he said. "I believed those children were mine." He compared his position to a farmer with his animals. But he also said "every intimacy which I had with them, they understood perfectly that if I did anything they didn't like, to tell me and I would not do it."

Laurene denies this. She says he told his daughters they "weren't normal if we didn't like it. And, that all men do that to their daughters."

Cooke continued: "I'd say it was consensual, whatever we were doing. I was not imposing on them."

 

[Leila]

I hope the children won't be returning, but I fear that unless the children start opening up and tell about the abuse that's happened, the CPS won't have the evidence they need to present a solid case.

Because these children have been taught to obey their fathers, and all the men in the group, and their reverence for the men as figures of authority may supercede their sense of right and wrong, they may not be aware of what constitutes abuse.

Certainly the girls have been groomed to believe it's their duty to submit to the man chosen to be her "husband", and to start bearing children as soon as they reach puberty. They don't know that what's being done to them is sexual abuse and illegal.

I hope CPS is teaching what constitutes abuse in their interviews with the children.

 

[LinasK]

This is the problem with the men in that community:
This is Lauren's father, who was convicted on the abuse and spent time in jail.

"He said at the time he didn't view his fondling of his daughters as abuse. It wasn't sexual, he said, claiming it was "on the same premise as our religion." "I had the idea that I was the big boss," he said. "I believed those children were mine." He compared his position to a farmer with his animals. But he also said "every intimacy which I had with them, they understood perfectly that if I did anything they didn't like, to tell me and I would not do it."

Laurene denies this. She says he told his daughters they "weren't normal if we didn't like it. And, that all men do that to their daughters."

Cooke continued: "I'd say it was consensual, whatever we were doing. I was not imposing on them."

:sick::sick::sick: Okay, this makes me want to throw up!!!

 

[Leila]

Something just occurred to me...............in that tour of Marilyn's home at the YFZ ranch, she showed the kitchen, living room, and 3 bedrooms.

In one bedroom, there were two sets of bunk beds and Marilyn said "this is my daughter's bed and I can hardly stand to sleep in here with her gone." In the next bedroom there were three beds and a set of bunk beds, and Marilyn explained that 5 older girls sleep in that bedroom. Then in the third bedroom, there were two double beds and a set of bunk beds and Marilyn said, "this is my mother's room and she sleeps here with three of her daughters. I count sleeping accommodations and beds for 13 people.

But, all those people are female. Not one male child in the household. Where do the male children sleep? And, even though there were sleeping accommodations for 13 people, the kitchen table had chairs for about twice that many, and the living room had chairs set up for at least 20 - 25 people. Very strange................

 

[mysteriew]

She slept in her daughter's bedroom? And where did the hubby sleep?

Good Morning America on ABC is supposed to have a piece inside the compound this AM.

 

[Leila]

She slept in her daughter's bedroom? And where did the hubby sleep?

Good Morning America on ABC is supposed to have a piece inside the compound this AM.

Yes.............she said she slept in her daughter's room, so I would guess in one of the bunk beds in that room. I have no idea where her husband slept. Maybe he has his own room, and the wives are rotated in and out of his room.

What I thought was strange, was that the kitchen and living room were set up to accommodate a lot more people than they had sleeping accommodations for.

 

[Floh]

Does anyone have a direct link to Marilyn's tour? all links i've gone to on the last thread took me to the pope and any link on the site for the FLDS also took me to the pope. enough of the pope for me.

 

[Floh]

I hope the children won't be returning, but I fear that unless the children start opening up and tell about the abuse that's happened, the CPS won't have the evidence they need to present a solid case.

Because these children have been taught to obey their fathers, and all the men in the group, and their reverence for the men as figures of authority may supercede their sense of right and wrong, they may not be aware of what constitutes abuse.

Certainly the girls have been groomed to believe it's their duty to submit to the man chosen to be her "husband", and to start bearing children as soon as they reach puberty. They don't know that what's being done to them is sexual abuse and illegal.

I hope CPS is teaching what constitutes abuse in their interviews with the children.

Surely the circumstances show clearly the children are under duress not to speak out which calls for logic on any decision to send them back. the women have demonstrated with their television interviews they have been coached to spew the same junk and so they are under duress. logic, again.

 

[Moe]

Will the fathers identify themselves as such today? I hope the welfare and medicaid offices have someone watching the proceedings today. The cult stand to loose not only the children, but big $$$$$ too. I have a feeling we will be sick to our stomachs by the end of today.

 

[golfmom]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8955144
CEDAR CITY - For Bruce Wisan, the raid on a polygamous ranch in west Texas is bringing positive results 1,200 miles away, in southern Utah and northern Arizona.
Finally, after months of cajoling, hundreds of members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are signing agreements with Wisan to remain in their homes in Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.
"The timing of the raid was wonderful," said Wisan, the court-appointed fiduciary overseeing the sect's communal property trust.
Wisan credits the raid, in part, with persuading more than 220 residents to suddenly sign occupancy pacts and pay their $100-a-month assessments for utilities and infrastructure upgrades. If they hadn't done so, they risked eviction from their trust-held homes.

 

[Trino]

I think today's hearing (Thursday) will see the children remain in custody. However, I think in the end the case will fall apart. The outcome may still hinge on the 16 year old girl who cannot be found.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4670370&page=3

Lisa Wayne, a criminal defense lawyer, said there could potentially be criminal charges against sect members for alleged statutory rape, abuse or negligence.

But the church could challenge the search warrant that police used to enter the compound and some of the evidence that could be suppressed.

In a criminal case, you have the right to know who may give the government probable cause to come on the premises.

 

[golfmom]

I don't think that it matters one bit if the girl is found or not. Obviously LE found evidence of other crimes during their initial search of the compound ... enough that the FBI was called in and they also received a warrant to search.

The case doesn't hinge on the 16 year old girl. Besides, the family of the "18 year old girl" is trying to get her recognized as an adult so she can be "represented" by independent legal council. If she's 18 why does she need to be recognized as an adult? And, since when aren't children allowed their own private lawyer, if there family is willing and able to pay.

Hogwash!

 

[golfmom]

Here's the info on the "Sarah" that they think might be the initial caller. If she is indeed 18 years old, why does she need to be recognized as an adult? And, again, you do not need to be an adult to have a private attorney.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8941294

Investigators have zeroed in on one Sarah in particular, Annette said. The girl, who has a 5-month-old daughter, is petite and looks young, so the investigators don't believe she is 18, she said. She declined to name the girl's husband, but said it is not Dale Evans Barlow, the Arizona man named in the initial arrest and search warrants.
.........
On Tuesday, 51st District Judge Barbara Walther rejected an attempt by this Sarah's family to have her recognized as an adult so she could be represented by a private attorney rather than an attorney ad litem.

 

[cheko1]

I beleive that none will be returned. Due to the fact the kids are bound to be abused when returned home. With all the evidence they found and all the kids being pregnant, I highly doubt they will be returned.

I also doubt they'll be returned. Years from now if they try to return they'll be totally shunned by the elders of the ranch. They'll all have a taste of freedom & will be harder to be contolled. JMHO