Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

[cityslick]

I don't know how anyone can say AC doesn't overcharge with a straight face when she's willing to throw a 12 year old in adult jail for life.

I don't care how violent he is, 12 years old is 12 years old. Put the kid in some sort of treatment facility for life, not adult jail.

 

[LambChop]

There are no "scheduled patrols" for being in NW. Ours certainly doesn't work that way. There are, however, very specific guidelines NW volunteers are asked to follow. GZ violated at least 2 of those guidelines. That's why we're here.

That is true of all NWPs. I guess people who are not familiar with the program think the P in NWP stands for patrol. It is a watch program only. You see something that looks suspicious you call it in. You do not follow, you do know go after this person with your gun, you let LE know where they can contact you and you let LE do their job. The rules are very simple. Tell me what didn't GZ understand???? We live in our society by laws and rules we have to live by. If your employer said to you, you have to follow certain rules would you deliberately break them because they are not against the law. When you agree to belong to a program/job/company you are expected to follow the same rules, not deliberately break them for your own self gradification.

The rules were set up by the police department to protect all of the people concerned, all of the residents within the community. The rules were set down and those who joined the program agreed to abide by these rules. When someone ignores the rules, someone else gets hurt. GZ has proved that. To ignore rules you know exists for the benefit and safety of others is selfish. GZ seemed to think he had better decision making abilities than the police department. He was wrong, dead wrong. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't know how anyone can say AC doesn't overcharge with a straight face when she's willing to throw a 12 year old in adult jail for life.

I don't care how violent he is, 12 years old is 12 years old. Put the kid in some sort of treatment facility for life, not adult jail.

ddsmiley:

 

[LambChop]

I don't know how anyone can say AC doesn't overcharge with a straight face when she's willing to throw a 12 year old in adult jail for life.

I don't care how violent he is, 12 years old is 12 years old. Put the kid in some sort of treatment facility for life, not adult jail.

He may be too dangerous for a treatment facility. jmo

 

[wishuwerehere]

I don't know how anyone can say AC doesn't overcharge with a straight face when she's willing to throw a 12 year old in adult jail for life.

I don't care how violent he is, 12 years old is 12 years old. Put the kid in some sort of treatment facility for life, not adult jail.

Do you have a link that states where this 12 year old has been housed in an adult prison?

 

[Phoenixfla]

That is true of all NWPs. I guess people who are not familiar with the program think the P in NWP stands for patrol. It is a watch program only. You see something that looks suspicious you call it in. You do not follow, you do know go after this person with your gun, you let LE know where they can contact you and you let LE do their job. The rules are very simple. Tell me what didn't GZ understand???? We live in our society by laws and rules we have to live by. If your employer said to you, you have to follow certain rules would you deliberately break them because they are not against the law. When you agree to belong to a program/job/company you are expected to follow the same rules, not deliberately break them for your own self gradification.

The rules were set up by the police department to protect all of the people concerned, all of the residents within the community. The rules were set down and those who joined the program agreed to abide by these rules. When someone ignores the rules, someone else gets hurt. GZ has proved that. To ignore rules you know exists for the benefit and safety of others is selfish. GZ seemed to think he had better decision making abilities than the police department. He was wrong, dead wrong. jmo

Let me ask this. I'm not saying this is or is not the case here. Would it be possible for a neighborhood to form a neighborhood watch or neighborhood patrol without the involvement of the police and not subject to the guidelines that the police recommend. Basically an independent neighborhood watch and/or patrol subject only to the laws of the state it is formed in?

 

[Reader]

Is weird. Two children were standing by the man she was firing the warning shot toward.

Exactly! The bullet hole was in the wall of the room where the husband and his 2 children were, not in the ceiling like she claimed.

AC brought the charges but she had to prove them to a jury and the woman was convicted, not by AC but by the jury that had the evidence.

 

[Nova]

Let me ask this. I'm not saying this is or is not the case here. Would it be possible for a neighborhood to form a neighborhood watch or neighborhood patrol without the involvement of the police and not subject to the guidelines that the police recommend. Basically an independent neighborhood watch and/or patrol subject only to the laws of the state it is formed in?

As long as the group abided by local, state and federal laws, I don't see why not.

 

[Gin]

Let me ask this. I'm not saying this is or is not the case here. Would it be possible for a neighborhood to form a neighborhood watch or neighborhood patrol without the involvement of the police and not subject to the guidelines that the police recommend. Basically an independent neighborhood watch and/or patrol subject only to the laws of the state it is formed in?

JMO/IMO
Homeowner's associations and condo associations have a fiduciary obligation to protect assets. Having a " as long as we think it's legal, do whatever posse" would put a neighborhood at financial risk.
That's not a small consideration. Most homeowners associations and condo associations have an attorney. I think attorneys would consider the template you've outlined a disaster waiting to happen. They would strongly advise against it. Most homeowners/condo owners would vote against it. They would not want to see the assets of the association frittered away by expensive lawsuits.
Neighborhood watch works, when folks WATCH, and if they see something, call the police. It is the job of LE to patrol, pursue, and investigate.

 

[Gin]

Exactly! The bullet hole was in the wall of the room where the husband and his 2 children were, not in the ceiling like she claimed.

AC brought the charges but she had to prove them to a jury and the woman was convicted, not by AC but by the jury that had the evidence.

Agreed. AC did have to prove her case, and she did. In reading, I was kind of surprised the defendant declined the plea deal.

 

[Phoenixfla]

JMO/IMO
Homeowner's associations and condo associations have a fiduciary obligation to protect assets. Having a " as long as we think it's legal, do whatever posse" would put a neighborhood at financial risk.
That's not a small consideration. Most homeowners associations and condo associations have an attorney. I think attorneys would consider the template you've outlined a disaster waiting to happen. They would strongly advise against it. Most homeowners/condo owners would vote against it. They would not want to see the assets of the association frittered away by expensive lawsuits.
Neighborhood watch works, when folks WATCH, and if they see something, call the police. It is the job of LE to patrol, pursue, and investigate.

I understand the liability issues, believe me, but is it possible?

ETA: And not every neighborhood has an association and a board of directors. Some are just a group of homes on county maintained roads with no guard gate, clubhouse, golf course, tennis courts, etc etc etc.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://secondchancecampaign.org/card/

Mother's Day message from Sybrina Fulton, please sign if you agree.

:cry:

Signed, sealed, delivered..

My mom and I stood in those shoes 29 years ago, March 1...

My heart aches for you, Miss Sybrina..My only brother was taken from us as tragically as Trayvon was taken from you...I am so sorry for your loss...:rose:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I don't know how anyone can say AC doesn't overcharge with a straight face when she's willing to throw a 12 year old in adult jail for life.

I don't care how violent he is, 12 years old is 12 years old. Put the kid in some sort of treatment facility for life, not adult jail.

ddsmiley:

He may be too dangerous for a treatment facility. jmo

Do you have a link that states where this 12 year old has been housed in an adult prison?

Sorry for the O/T posts....one has to read up on this child..he was nurtured into a sociopath..he is in a juvenile detention center...he was offered a plea but his attorney turned it down..but it will take lots of rehabiliation to help this child grow into a productive member of society..he hasn't gone to trial yet...

His trial date is set for this year, June 25th...
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...te-set-cristian-fernandez-sexual-battery-case

 

[LambChop]

Let me ask this. I'm not saying this is or is not the case here. Would it be possible for a neighborhood to form a neighborhood watch or neighborhood patrol without the involvement of the police and not subject to the guidelines that the police recommend. Basically an independent neighborhood watch and/or patrol subject only to the laws of the state it is formed in?

The rules are the same, you watch. LE would never agree to you following a suspect. But once you leave your property to follow on someone else's property you are breaking the law by trespassing on private property. So it's still just a watch program and no way would LE tell you to do their job for them. jmo

 

[sleonardelli]

That is true of all NWPs. I guess people who are not familiar with the program think the P in NWP stands for patrol. It is a watch program only. You see something that looks suspicious you call it in. You do not follow, you do know go after this person with your gun, you let LE know where they can contact you and you let LE do their job. The rules are very simple. Tell me what didn't GZ understand???? We live in our society by laws and rules we have to live by. If your employer said to you, you have to follow certain rules would you deliberately break them because they are not against the law. When you agree to belong to a program/job/company you are expected to follow the same rules, not deliberately break them for your own self gradification.

The rules were set up by the police department to protect all of the people concerned, all of the residents within the community. The rules were set down and those who joined the program agreed to abide by these rules. When someone ignores the rules, someone else gets hurt. GZ has proved that. To ignore rules you know exists for the benefit and safety of others is selfish. GZ seemed to think he had better decision making abilities than the police department. He was wrong, dead wrong. jmo

:goodpost:

House to vote on Trayvon amendment

 

[sleonardelli]

Having read Marissa's story, I think AC got it wrong this time. When the evidence enters the public realm, I may rethink my support of her decision in the GZ case.

:nevermind: ignore:

 

[Nova]

The rules are the same, you watch. LE would never agree to you following a suspect. But once you leave your property to follow on someone else's property you are breaking the law by trespassing on private property. So it's still just a watch program and no way would LE tell you to do their job for them. jmo

Phoenix didn't ask whether such a neighborhood org would be advisable or free of liability issues, he asked whether it would be "possible"--which I took to mean "legal".

I'm sure you're right that LE would frown on certain activities, but that doesn't mean patrolling public areas and even following suspicious persons would be illegal.

 

[LambChop]

Phoenix didn't ask whether such a neighborhood org would be advisable or free of liability issues, he asked whether it would be "possible"--which I took to mean "legal".

I'm sure you're right that LE would frown on certain activities, but that doesn't mean patrolling public areas and even following suspicious persons would be illegal.

The NWP is connected to LE through their crime prevention programs. If a neighborhood wanted to set up a patrol group I'm not so sure they can do so without going through their local police department. Anyone starting a program without notifying LE of what their plans are would not be very smart and might find themselves in the pokey from a complaint by a citizen. Some people just frown on others following them for no reason. Registering with police, taking their course, knowing the rules will keep the citizens and those civilian patrol groups safe. What happened with GZ is a perfect example of what happens when you don't follow the rules. jmo

 

[Nova]

The NWP is connected to LE through their crime prevention programs. If a neighborhood wanted to set up a patrol group I'm not so sure they can do so without going through their local police department. Anyone starting a program without notifying LE of what their plans are would not be very smart and might find themselves in the pokey from a complaint by a citizen. Some people just frown on others following them for no reason. Registering with police, taking their course, knowing the rules will keep the citizens and those civilian patrol groups safe. What happened with GZ is a perfect example of what happens when you don't follow the rules. jmo

You and I don't disagree here in terms of what we think is wise, but I don't believe there's any law that says a watch program has to join the existing NWP or follow its guidelines.

That's not to say an ad hoc group might not inadvertently violate SOME law (trespassing, harassment, illegal use of firearms, etc.), but I thought the question was whether its very existence would be illegal. AFAIK, it would not be. Thus far, nobody has found a statute that says otherwise.

 

[Karmady]

:goodpost:

House to vote on Trayvon amendment

They may want to wait to see how the case turns out first...oh, wait...nevermind.