Florida's Stand Your Ground Law

[vlpate]

There are no "scheduled patrols" for being in NW. Ours certainly doesn't work that way. There are, however, very specific guidelines NW volunteers are asked to follow. GZ violated at least 2 of those guidelines. That's why we're here.

BEM: Huh? :waitasec:

 

[Reader]

Florida Shooting Forces Debate Over The “Stand Your Ground” Law

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/21/florida-shooting-forces-debate-over-the-stand-your-ground-law/

..........The DOJ is clearly treating it as a racially motivated shooting since the Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the FBI, is participating in the investigation.
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The key component of the [SYG] law is that it allows lethal force when a person reasonably perceives a serious threat of harm and such force is reasonable under the circumstances. Zimmerman is likely to cite the fact that he was bleeding from the struggle — even though he outweighed the teen significantly and was armed. ............That still allows for serious question over whether, even if Martin did struggle with Zimmerman, there remains the notion of a fear of serious bodily injury.
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Again, the most salient facts against him are (1) the statement on the 911 tape showing animus, (2) the disregarded instructions not to follow Martin, (3) the advantage in weight and possession of a firearm in the struggle, and (4) the lack of any weapon or proof of criminal conduct by Martin.

While the basis for the intervention by the DOJ remains a bit murky itself, it may help with the many unanswered forensic questions. I am most interested in (1) the trajectory of the bullet, (2) the distance of the shooting, (3) the extent of injuries beyond the bullet wound on both men, and (4) the forensic analysis of the background of the 911 calls.

More at link.....

http://jonathanturley.org/about/

 

[jaded cat]

BEM: Huh? :waitasec:

You aren't supposed to follow someone once you've made the report. You're also not supposed to use a weapon.

 

[sleonardelli]

The fatal bus stop stabbing of a Collier teen and the ensuing legal battle using Florida’s “stand your ground” law is scheduled to be featured on Dateline NBC Sunday.

A January 2011 fight between Palmetto Ridge High School students Jorge Saavedra, then 14, and Dylan Nuno, 16, ended in Saavedra’s arrest and Nuno’s death.

Nuno’s parents and Saavedra’s attorney, Donald Day, are featured in the Sunday night TV episode, which airs at 7 p.m. on NBC, according to the show’s website.

The case closed earlier this year when a Collier judge ruled in Saavedra’s favor during a preliminary hearing, determining the teen acted in self-defense under “stand your ground” in retaliation for taunting on the bus and punches thrown by Nuno. Saavedra no longer faces aggravated manslaughter charges.

Dateline NBC to feature Collier school bus stabbing 'stand your ground' case

This was actually on last night.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Another Case Involving Self-Defense Claims Roils a Florida Community
By: Margie Menzel News Service of Florida | Posted: May 14, 2012 3:55 AM
As Florida reviews its "stand your ground" law in the wake of the Trayvon Martin killing, Marissa Alexander on Friday received a 20-year sentence for firing a shot in what she claims was self-defense and her backers say was a case of her standing her ground.

Alexander, a 31-year-old mother of three, was sentenced in Jacksonville under a mandatory minimum law for firing one shot in the direction of a spouse with a record of domestic violence in a 2010 dispute.

A judge had rejected Alexander’s "stand your ground" defense, saying she could have escaped instead of firing. Florida courts have often recognized a common law doctrine that says when someone is acting in self defense in their home, they don't have a duty to retreat to first.

Alexander's case has a twist from the usual "stand your ground" claim: she didn't shoot her spouse. She fired, but didn't hit him.

Her case has drawn immense attention, and gained even more notoriety than it likely otherwise could have as the state has been gripped by a new debate over self defense laws in the wake of the Martin shooting earlier this year.

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/st...g-self-defense-claims-roils-florida-community

Angela Corey, the special prosecutor handling the Martin killing, will obviously fight any attempt to use the "stand your ground" defense in that case. And she said it doesn't apply to Alexander, either. Her office had offered a plea bargain of three years, but Alexander rejected it, hoping to convince a jury she had been in fear for her life.

"She got two shots at her self-defense theory," Corey told the Huffington Post on Thursday. "Neither a judge nor a jury bought it."

"It's a pattern we see all across the state," Newburn said. "[Defendants] turn down a plea deal because they think they're innocent…If you're guilty and you know it, you take the plea."

Corey said Alexander’s family and attorneys are spreading "misinformation" about her having been a victim who acted in self-defense.

"If there was a way to prosecute [Alexander’s family] for what they are doing I would," Corey said

In court Friday, Corey said Alexander's shot could have hit her husband or his children. She told the Huffington Post that Alexander "was angry" when she fired the shot. "She was not in fear."

I believe this too will be for GZ...For the life of me, I cannot picture GZ in fear when he's the one with the weapon. If he truly felt in fear, why did he continue to pursue TM?

It didn't appear he was in fear but he does appear to be angry...Angry (fed up) with all these alleged break ins, burlaries that have been happening in the community...

I believe lots of folk may misinterpet this very confusing statute..if the evidence is stacked against you, you might want to take a plea deal instead of going for the entire ball of wax..You stand a greater chance of loosing the case if you wholly depend on a jury to acquit..if the evidence shows the opposite, don't go for broke...Be a man/woman and take the consequences of your actions...admit to the wrong and do your time..

 

[LambChop]

I find it hard to believe that Wolfinger and Chief Lee did not meet to discuss GZ and the SYG law in deciding to let him go when the Chief's own homocide detective wanted GZ arrested because he felt he was lying. You would think the Chief would have spent more time with his decision pending an investigation.

GZ claims to have been on the sidewalk at the cut through. He never claimed he was running away from TM from in the opposite direction what we know. If the witness' account is correct about two people running past her doorway right before the shooting GZ did, in fact, run. If GZ ran after TM to detain him that throws the SYG out the window, IMO. TM was not engaged in any crime that even LE could have legally detained him for. GZ had no knowledge of any crime and basically targeted and tracked down an innocent person. There is no evidence of wrong doing on TM's part. jmo

 

[Karmady]

I find it hard to believe that Wolfinger and Chief Lee did not meet to discuss GZ and the SYG law in deciding to let him go when the Chief's own homocide detective wanted GZ arrested because he felt he was lying. You would think the Chief would have spent more time with his decision pending an investigation.

GZ claims to have been on the sidewalk at the cut through. He never claimed he was running away from TM from in the opposite direction what we know. If the witness' account is correct about two people running past her doorway right before the shooting GZ did, in fact, run. If GZ ran after TM to detain him that throws the SYG out the window, IMO. TM was not engaged in any crime that even LE could have legally detained him for. GZ had no knowledge of any crime and basically targeted and tracked down an innocent person. There is no evidence of wrong doing on TM's part. jmo

First, we don't know how much time he spent. It could have been ten minutes, it could have been several hours. I'm sure one of the issues they faced was how long they could hold George without triggering the immunity statute in the first place. Imo, they may have triggered it anyway, but I'm sure that was part of their decision-making process.

And regarding the supposed "chasing", even the SP's investigator says they have no idea who was chasing whom - still, to this day. jmo

 

[sleonardelli]

TAMPA --
A circuit judge has denied the Stand Your Ground motion of Trevor Dooley, the elderly Valrico man charged with shooting to death a decorated Air Force veteran in front of his 8-year-old daughter two years ago.

Dooley claimed immunity from prosecution under the controversial state law that was enacted in 2005. Dooley, then 69, said he was protecting himself when the younger, much larger David James came after him.

James, 41, was defending a teenager using the park's basketball court to do tricks on a skateboard. Dooley, who lives across the street from the park, yelled at the teen to get off the court and strode into the park to confront the teen when James stepped between them.

Testimony differed slightly about what happened next. Dooley claimed he turned and began walking home when James attacked him. But witnesses said that before that Dooley hiked his shirt up to display a handgun in his waistband, and that's when James went after Dooley.

The two wrestled on the ground when Dooley managed to get the .32-caliber gun out and fired one shot into James' chest. James died at the scene.

Stand Your Ground motion denied for Valrico man

Can I say "Yea!!!!!"

 

[AJ Noiter]

You aren't supposed to follow someone once you've made the report. You're also not supposed to use a weapon.

In addition, although Zimmerman broke no laws because he has a concealed weapons permit, it's something that Neighborhood Watch strongly discourages. "There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said. "You do not carry a weapon during neighborhood watch. If you carry a weapon, you're going to pull it."

http://www.huliq.com/3257/national-...es-zimmermans-actions-trayvon-martin-shooting

This was Mr. Chris Tutko, the director of the national Neighborhood Watch program. The key word I want to point out to you here is bold in his statement. Mr. Zimmerman was not "on duty," so these guidelines (not laws) do not apply.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

This was Mr. Chris Tutko, the director of the national Neighborhood Watch program. The key word I want to point out to you here is bold in his statement. Mr. Zimmerman was not "on duty," so these guidelines (not laws) do not apply.

How do you know he wasn't on duty? He did call into the 911 NEN, so he must know who/what number to call while on his neighborhood watch...if he is as dedicated as his advocates state, then I believe he is always on CWP...always had that keen eye out for teens who are on drugs or something, while walking in the grass, not the walkway...

Tamato, tomato...

 

[LambChop]

How do you know he wasn't on duty? He did call into the 911 NEN, so he must know who/what number to call while on his neighborhood watch...if he is as dedicated as his advocates state, then I believe he is always on CWP...always had that keen eye out for teens who are on drugs or something, while walking in the grass, not the walkway...

Tamato, tomato...

First there is no actual duty other than calling it in which GZ was in the process of doing when he got out of his car and pursued TM. GZ was still on the phone telling LE he was looking for information. The issue is GZ thought he was on duty and knew better than to get out of the car and knew he should not have had a gun on him when he took off looking for TM. The "I was just trying to find the street number on the next street over" just will not fly with a jury when he was suppose to be in his parked vehicle waiting for a patrol car. GZ was not through with LE because he stated he or LE would be calling him back for a location.

There is a reason LE does not want anyone getting involved other than calling it in. The end result when it involves a gun and a pursuit is never good. And I suppose when LE directed GZ he didn't need to follow that this guideline should have been ignored, too. jmo

 

[Phoenixfla]

The fatal bus stop stabbing of a Collier teen and the ensuing legal battle using Florida’s “stand your ground” law is scheduled to be featured on Dateline NBC Sunday.

A January 2011 fight between Palmetto Ridge High School students Jorge Saavedra, then 14, and Dylan Nuno, 16, ended in Saavedra’s arrest and Nuno’s death.

Nuno’s parents and Saavedra’s attorney, Donald Day, are featured in the Sunday night TV episode, which airs at 7 p.m. on NBC, according to the show’s website.

The case closed earlier this year when a Collier judge ruled in Saavedra’s favor during a preliminary hearing, determining the teen acted in self-defense under “stand your ground” in retaliation for taunting on the bus and punches thrown by Nuno. Saavedra no longer faces aggravated manslaughter charges.

Dateline NBC to feature Collier school bus stabbing 'stand your ground' case

This was actually on last night.

I have followed this case very closely, and until you posted the link.

In the Saavedra case the older boy (Nuno) was a bully and picking on Saavedra. Nuno was trained in martial arts, and was significantly bigger than the younger one. Saavedra got off the bus earlier than his usual stop to avoid Nuno, and Nuno and his friends got off at the next stop and went to where Saavedra was. Nuno punched Saavedra in the back of the head and continued to punch him. Saavedra pulled a knife (he had taken to school) and stabbed Nuno. Nuno died at the scene.

Caused a lot of controversy in our community, much like the GZ TM case.

 

[Reader]

TAMPA --
A circuit judge has denied the Stand Your Ground motion of Trevor Dooley, the elderly Valrico man charged with shooting to death a decorated Air Force veteran in front of his 8-year-old daughter two years ago.

Dooley claimed immunity from prosecution under the controversial state law that was enacted in 2005. Dooley, then 69, said he was protecting himself when the younger, much larger David James came after him.

James, 41, was defending a teenager using the park's basketball court to do tricks on a skateboard. Dooley, who lives across the street from the park, yelled at the teen to get off the court and strode into the park to confront the teen when James stepped between them.

Testimony differed slightly about what happened next. Dooley claimed he turned and began walking home when James attacked him. But witnesses said that before that Dooley hiked his shirt up to display a handgun in his waistband, and that's when James went after Dooley.

The two wrestled on the ground when Dooley managed to get the .32-caliber gun out and fired one shot into James' chest. James died at the scene.

Stand Your Ground motion denied for Valrico man

Can I say "Yea!!!!!"

That sounds very close to what GZ says happened, altho he didn't admit to showing the gun to Trayvon but I believe he did. So, the judge denied this man's immunity....hmmmmm

 

[Desdemona]

Candidates for Orange-Osceola State Attorney (Ashton, Lamar, Williams, Jaeger) took turns weighing in on the Stand Your Ground Law at a May 9 forum.

Video of the responses:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...idate-forum-Stand-Your-Ground-law#pl-68832490

 

[jjenny]

That sounds very close to what GZ says happened, altho he didn't admit to showing the gun to Trayvon but I believe he did. So, the judge denied this man's immunity....hmmmmm

There isn't a single witness in Zimmerman's case that can testify that Zimmerman showed Trayvon his gun prior to the fight. Even Trayvon's g/f who was on the phone with him, said absolutely nothing about a gun, and she claims to have heard quite a few things (even the grass).

 

[LambChop]

There isn't a single witness in Zimmerman's case that can testify that Zimmerman showed Trayvon his gun prior to the fight. Even Trayvon's g/f who was on the phone with him, said absolutely nothing about a gun, and she claims to have heard quite a few things (even the grass).

From where the phone was found and since the headset/buds were found beside TM's body it appears the buds were pulled away from the phone and what she may have heard was the phone landing in the grass. Because the phone was found in the grass and not in TM's pocket. It may have disconnected when it hit the ground. I know mine goes off when it hits the floor.

I don't think he had his gun out either. It would have been a juggling act since GZ had the flashlight out and I'm assuming they were GZ's keys because he had just left his car. Both were found on the ground. Unless GZ dropped them to go for his gun? (And that would go along with his statement when GZ said he was reaching for his cell phone.)

It is worth consideration because it could account for GZ yelling for John to help him because GZ was afraid of losing control of the gun. And if he tried to detain TM pulling a gun GZ might have thought it would keep TM there. If TM started to run GZ was not going to shoot him in the back so he could have given chase and some of the injuries GZ received could have been from the gun hitting his head as he fell. TM still trying to get away and maybe holding GZ's arm down to keep GZ from shooting him. That would account for all the screaming because the gun was not pulled out at the last minute and TM knew it was there. The lack of TM's fingerprints on the gun could be because he was trying to hold GZ's arm down so GZ could not shoot him. It is possible, I guess.

But there is no proof he pulled the gun earlier. jmo

 

[Desdemona]

''Stand Your Ground' law: Jury finds Fort Pierce man Gilberto Galvez justified in killing


Posted: 05/18/2012

By: Tyler Treadway, Scripps Treasure Coast Newspapers

FORT PIERCE, Fla. — A jury found Thursday afternoon that a Fort Pierce man was justified in stabbing and killing a man under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law.

After hearing a day and a half of testimony, jurors deliberated about three hours Thursday afternoon before finding Gilberto Galvez not guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Carlos Pereza in the early morning hours of March 19, 2011.

After the verdict, Deputy Public Defender Dorothy Naumann said Galvez' case "fit squarely into the way the 'Stand Your Ground' law allows you to protect yourself, your loved ones and your home."


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region...rto-galvez-justified-in-killing#ixzz1vLlf9Gdf

 

[sleonardelli]

That sounds very close to what GZ says happened, altho he didn't admit to showing the gun to Trayvon but I believe he did. So, the judge denied this man's immunity....hmmmmm

Trevor Dooley's attorney is appealing the judges ruling:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...-attorney-will-appeal-judges-decision/1230583

 

[sleonardelli]

I have followed this case very closely, and until you posted the link.

In the Saavedra case the older boy (Nuno) was a bully and picking on Saavedra. Nuno was trained in martial arts, and was significantly bigger than the younger one. Saavedra got off the bus earlier than his usual stop to avoid Nuno, and Nuno and his friends got off at the next stop and went to where Saavedra was. Nuno punched Saavedra in the back of the head and continued to punch him. Saavedra pulled a knife (he had taken to school) and stabbed Nuno. Nuno died at the scene.

Caused a lot of controversy in our community, much like the GZ TM case.

The amazing thing is Saavedra reached behind him to stab Nuno. I would've thought forensics could tell he wasn't facing his attacker (Nuno). This was clearly as SYG case and I'm glad Saavedra received his immunity.

 

[TorisMom003]

This was Mr. Chris Tutko, the director of the national Neighborhood Watch program. The key word I want to point out to you here is bold in his statement. Mr. Zimmerman was not "on duty," so these guidelines (not laws) do not apply.

Actually it appears that Zimmerman was on duty at the time. Or at least he apparently told Inv. Serino that he was. According to the autopsy report in the section under Medical Examiner Case Report in the case summary is the following:

The caller stated that the male should not have been in the area and he observed the male while walking his neighborhood watch.

That is a statement made by Inv. Serino as to what occured that night.

Link for doc dump and page 138 of 183 is the one concerning the case summary:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor