For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[goldenlover]

Ok so now explain the duct tape, chloroform, computer searches....
I could go on and on!

I think that was the problem..the jury wanted these things explained. There was not enough evidence that any of these things caused the death or who caused the death. They cannot just speculate what the chloroform was used for, that the duct tape was the murder weapon and that the computer searches had anything to do with the demise of Caylee. How can you sentence someome to death or even life in prison without parole if you don't know enough of the answers to what happened? Lying and not reporting someone missing does not constitute murder. The jury did what they had to do. They had the guts to do what was right according to the law. I applaud them for that. Do I think she did something? Yes, but I did not see the evidence to fit the crimes charged. A jury cannot just guess what happened.

 

[claudicici]

I'm sure this has been said before but ITA that with the given information the jury made the only decision they could have made.I think the defense strategy was disgusting and I am afraid of what is to come if Casey gets out.I hope she gets help,I really do and I hope her parents and Lee will as well George is broken.

 

[magnolia]

I think that was the problem..the jury wanted these things explained. There was not enough evidence that any of these things caused the death or who caused the death. They cannot just speculate what the chloroform was used for, that the duct tape was the murder weapon and that the computer searches had anything to do with the demise of Caylee. How can you sentence someome to death or even life in prison without parole if you don't know enough of the answers to what happened? Lying and not reporting someone missing does not constitute murder. The jury did what they had to do. They had the guts to do what was right according to the law. I applaud them for that. Do I think she did something? Yes, but I did not see the evidence to fit the crimes charged. A jury cannot just guess what happened.

The alternate Juror did not say," I cannot comment on that because no evidence was produced of how the child died".

The alternate said,"he believes it was an accident". Believes Caylee was packaged like the Anthony's packaged their deceased pets, and thrown in a swamp.

There was not one piece of evidence that proved Caylee's death was an accident. Only JB's words in his opening statement. We all know words in opening statements cannot be used in the deliberations.

True,he was an alternate, but,an alternate that would have taken his speculation into the Jury room with him.

 

[cluciano63]

Still, the judge allowed JB to have the accident theory as part of the defense, as opposed to the sex abuse claim, so the jury was, technically anyway, allowed to think about that.

 

[Ambiance]

WOW I stand corrected!
and I am changing my mind!
No way was the chloroform search a 10 second glance!
It probably WAS used to clean the trunk!
wonder who cleaned the trunk THAT good?

interesting...but, weren't the chloroform searches done in March? she would have to have been really thinking ahead to cleaning her trunk, No?

to me the chloroform search had to do with knocking her out so she could party AND it hit me that since she was lying about the babysitter and her mom might have been paying for it....she wanted to continue to get the cash from her mom to use for partying.


anyway, I am still thinking chloroform overdose (or murder)

 

[Ambiance]

Still, the judge allowed JB to have the accident theory as part of the defense, as opposed to the sex abuse claim, so the jury was, technically anyway, allowed to think about that.

hmmm. maybe the judge realized that a lot of the evidence could have applied to an accident as well as a murder?

 

[Ambiance]

Couldn't they tell by her hair if she was being drugged?

I found this:
FBI toxicologist, said the head of hair samples of Caylee Anthony not tested positive for Xanax, Valium, Rufi and six other drugs. The hair not tested for chloroform. The toxicologist recognized that the hair test is not the best way to see if someone was drugged.


don't know why they couldn't test the hair for chloroform

 

[1Chump]

The alternate Juror did not say," I cannot comment on that because no evidence was produced of how the child died".

The alternate said,"he believes it was an accident". Believes Caylee was packaged like the Anthony's packaged their deceased pets, and thrown in a swamp.

There was not one piece of evidence that proved Caylee's death was an accident. Only JB's words in his opening statement. We all know words in opening statements cannot be used in the deliberations.

True,he was an alternate, but,an alternate that would have taken his speculation into the Jury room with him.

There was actually more undisputed circumstantial evidence presented of a possible pool accident than the state presented for it's theories.

Cindy Anthony, her co-worker and Yuri Melich all testified regarding Cindy finding the pool ladder up on June 16. This all happened by July 16, 2008.

On the jailhouse video when Cindy Anthony stopped crying to tell Casey that the newest rumor was that Caylee drowned in the pool, Casey responded "surprise, suprise." The definition of "surprise, surprise" is "no surprise."

We saw pictures of Caylee opening the sliding door, climbing up the ladder, and starting to swim away from her grandma.

The State was so fixated on it's theories that they claimed the pool drowning was ridiculous because who would turn an accident into murder. They NEVER consider that just maybe it was not meant to make it look like a murder but to cover up an accident that would ruin the Anthony families need to completely deny anything that might not make the "parents" look good. Like the evidence that they denied Casey's pg.

Every allegation by the State was either balanced out during cross examination and/or defense witnesses.

It was the State's insistence that it was too absurd to even consider that allowed all that circumstantial evidence that the jury could actually see and hear to go unchallenged.

 

[Chablis]

I found this:
FBI toxicologist, said the head of hair samples of Caylee Anthony not tested positive for Xanax, Valium, Rufi and six other drugs. The hair not tested for chloroform. The toxicologist recognized that the hair test is not the best way to see if someone was drugged.


don't know why they couldn't test the hair for chloroform

I cant buy the chloroform theory just because if she wanted to put the child to sleep to party she could have done the easy thing and get nyquil, or something like that, feed her tylenol pm or melatonin. She was broke and I just dont think she got all Mr Wizard like. At least there were no drugs in the hair. Had there been that would be what the State would have argued.

Sad case.

 

[Ambiance]

I cant buy the chloroform theory just because if she wanted to put the child to sleep to party she could have done the easy thing and get nyquil, or something like that, feed her tylenol pm or melatonin. She was broke and I just dont think she got all Mr Wizard like. At least there were no drugs in the hair. Had there been that would be what the State would have argued.

Sad case.

well, she did search for it constantly and perhaps she needed something really, really powerful/effective like chloroform to enable her to stay gone for long periods. although I have no idea where she actually left her when she was knocked out. Maybe since she searched for how to make it, she thought it might be cheaper since it's acetone (probably dirt cheap) plus shock powder which they probably had for the pool cleaning. they found high levels in her trunk - so either that was where casey was when she routinely knocked her out or after she died, probably both. I personally think she got the original idea from tony's my space. But her parents thought she was working so the only way to get money was to steal or take the money CA gave her for the babysitter.

 

[cluciano63]

hmmm. maybe the judge realized that a lot of the evidence could have applied to an accident as well as a murder?

No-I don't think he ever thought they would lean toward accident. He just gave the defense that since they had shown those photos of the pool and saw that she COULD have possibly climbed in on her own...but the jury went the way I feared they would, due to the total craziness of the family, in other words, if there is an exception to the rule of reporting accidents 100% of the time, this would be the one family who would cover it up instead.

 

[MAL954]

I'll preface this by conceding I was born a skeptic, believe little of what I hear and just a little more than that of what I see. I also believe that conspiracies, both large and small shape much of the world around us. Given that, here's my theory.

The alpha dogs on the jury gladly served looking for a payday. KC's actual guilt or innocence was secondary to that. They understood that the media was less interested in them confirming what everyone with half a brain knew; instead they'd be chomping at the bit to interview those verbal and persuasive jurors who may have spearheaded an unpopular, controversial decision, whether it be just or unjust. Like John Cusack in Runaway Jury, right from the get-go despite the judge's admonishments, they controlled and directed the thinking of their fellow more naive jurors to acquit on all felony counts, with little more than the $windfall awaiting them as motivation. As they electronically surface, based on their "performances" we'll know just who they are! That's just the way I see it.

 

[firefox62]

I think common sense isn't that common. I would always hope our legal system uses reasonable doubt as a standard of guilt. That said, I had at least 1 competing theory about her death which to me is reasonable doubt. It was an accidental drowning but I can look at Cindy's guilt as easily as K.C. After the death occurred the family, minus Lee, got together and planned what transpired. George used his le experience to come up with a plan.The duct tape, trash bags, heart sticker... were used to confuse and create reasonable doubt. Which they did.
I'm not a legal expert but it appears to me the case was over charged.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

http://books.google.com/books?id=I9wDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=USING+CHLOROFORM++and+a+knife&source=bl&ots=nx2X8hkwjO&sig=eMlHwS0o5zelUQDSg6LYV5y2zt4&hl=en&ei=4VUVTvq4Fajz0gGY98VY&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=USING%20CHLOROFORM%20%20and%20a%20knife&f=false

Has anyone seen this picture before? (I posted it in chlorolform forum..)
I would have never EVER connected the knife to cleaning the trunk liner!

A long time ago, when the chloroform info first came out, I found something similiar about using chloroform to clean a car's interior. It wasn't this same ad, but an article. I have tried and cannot find it now, but I remember back then thinking how unusual it was, but that maybe from his police days that George knew about cleaning with chloroform and used it to clean the trunk the night of July 16th before it got towed. I did not and still do not think George was involved in Caylee death or hiding the body, but I really question what happened in the Anthony's garage the night of July 16th.

 

[Chablis]

A long time ago, when the chloroform info first came out, I found something similiar about using chloroform to clean a car's interior. It wasn't this same ad, but an article. I have tried and cannot find it now, but I remember back then thinking how unusual it was, but that maybe from his police days that George knew about cleaning with chloroform and used it to clean the trunk the night of July 16th before it got towed. I did not and still do not think George was involved in Caylee death or hiding the body, but I really question what happened in the Anthony's garage the night of July 16th.

Was George asked if he ever used chloroform for anything? He was meticulous about car cleaning. And keep in mind, I dont think George had anything to do with this, but she could have learned to clean from him?

 

[Ambiance]

There was actually more undisputed circumstantial evidence presented of a possible pool accident than the state presented for it's theories.

Cindy Anthony, her co-worker and Yuri Melich all testified regarding Cindy finding the pool ladder up on June 16. This all happened by July 16, 2008.

On the jailhouse video when Cindy Anthony stopped crying to tell Casey that the newest rumor was that Caylee drowned in the pool, Casey responded "surprise, suprise." The definition of "surprise, surprise" is "no surprise."

We saw pictures of Caylee opening the sliding door, climbing up the ladder, and starting to swim away from her grandma.

The State was so fixated on it's theories that they claimed the pool drowning was ridiculous because who would turn an accident into murder. They NEVER consider that just maybe it was not meant to make it look like a murder but to cover up an accident that would ruin the Anthony families need to completely deny anything that might not make the "parents" look good. Like the evidence that they denied Casey's pg.

Every allegation by the State was either balanced out during cross examination and/or defense witnesses.

It was the State's insistence that it was too absurd to even consider that allowed all that circumstantial evidence that the jury could actually see and hear to go unchallenged.

could you please expound on the highlighted part....not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

[kgeaux]

The state did not really have a motive, when they couldn't make use of the (alleged) fight of the night before Caylee disappeared. I KNOW they don't have a prove a motive, but when they can't tell you how she died, where she died or when she died, without dispute, and only want to tell you the who, I think it made things murky. As far as the jury could see, no one was stopping Casey from the life she was leading up until June 15th anyway. They didn't hear much to show that Cindy and she were at each other's throats.

There is nobody the state could have called to testify about a big fight the night before Caylee disappeared. Cindy has denied it in the past, and she'd have denied it again.

I strongly believe that if the state had been able to use the huge fight and the threat that Cindy allegedly made (to take Caylee away from Casey) there would have been a guilty penalty. Casey sat facing the jury, and they saw her angry expressions the same as those of us who watched the trial.

I agree about the weakness of the motive "because she wanted to party." because if THAT were her motive, she'd have just handed Caylee over to Cindy and George, just like she'd already been doing for two years!

Why? Because pretty white girls don't kill their kids?

There was no evidence of an accident. And KC sitting in jail for 3 years and risking the DP was plenty of evidence there was no accident.

I hate to say this, but there IS a prejudice in favor of pretty white girls. Crime and conviction percentages prove that. However, in this case, defense was not required to present any evidence of an accident, the state had to prove it was murder. I don't think the evidence proved that.....even though sitting in jail for three years surely must raise a huge level of suspicion, it isn't forensic evidence.

 

[kgeaux]

There is a huge difference between what is speculated to be true, what seems to make sense, and what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I served as a juror on a murder trial (gang related). We, the members of the jury, came to believe the person was likely guilty; however, the defense raised reasonable doubt. Even though we thought the person was most likely guilty, we abided by the law and returned a not guilty verdict.


It was an eye opening process. I'd encourage you not to judge the jury. They did their job even if you don't like the result. I'd also wager that if you ever find yourself facing a court, you will be glad that our system puts the burden of proof on the prosecution.

JMHO

snipped your post just a little. I agree with everything you've said, especially the part about serving on a jury. It feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders when you are holding another person's freedom/life in your hands.

And Oh, Yes, do we Americans love our rights when we are unjustly accused of something!

SNIP and BBM

The blowflies can only be analyzed after a 2nd or 3rd generation. but not after a 5th generation.
Therefore, as I said too much time lapsed... if LE took that car 10 minutes after CA called 011 there may have been a better chance.
LE "F"d up a lot.
GA cleaned up a lot
In short the legal system had very little to work with to TIE KC to the deed itself.

Having said that- I do believe it was an accident.
But I also believe that Ex LE dad should be accountable for screwing with evidence.
The entire family should be accountable for Caylee not getting a proper burial, if she did drown at home; at least we know for sure that family threw her into the dumps. This should be illegal and family should be charged for that.
While KC cannot be charged for murder, she can be charged for other things like tossing the baby in the garbage.

Hi, songline!:seeya: I understand what you are saying about the blowflies, but there was no evidence in the trunk, except for one fly leg. It wasn't a matter of there being flies found, but of a generation that wouldn't yield knowledge, there simply weren't any.

I do wish LE had taken possession of the car sooner, too. I wish LE would have walked into the woods instead of reaming out Roy Kronk. I wish Roy Kronk wouldn't have poked the skull, or picked up the bag. I wish LE would have investigated RK thoroughly so that defense could not accuse him of holding Caylee's body for a period of time.

From your article 2door73.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/casey_anth...uilty-verdict/comments?type=story&id=14005609

Casey Anthony juror Jennifer Ford said that she and the other jurors cried and were "sick to our stomachs" after voting to acquit Casey Anthony of charges that she killed her 2-year-old daughter Caylee. "I did not say she was innocent," said Ford, who had previously only been identified as juror No. 3. "I just said there was not enough evidence. If you cannot prove what the crime was, you cannot determine what the punishment should be." Ford, a 32-year-old nursing student at St. Petersburg..

More at link above.


WOW the jurors are having a hard time.

I am honestly not getting the controversy over her statement. OF COURSE they didn't find her innocent! The choices were between guilty and not guilty. And not guilty means exactly what she says; the jurors had reasonable doubt because the prosecution did not PROVE Caylee's death was the result of a murder.

There was coloring in the skull consistent with drowning. Driving in a hot car means nothing, and usually murderous people have a location picked out to dispose of the person, it can be argued she couldnt let her ROTTING child go.

Also, yes, she could have called the cops, but she tried her mom and couldnt get her and panicked, imo, for those really interested in the TRUTH, perhaps you should look at her activity the night and day of the 15/16th.

And AGAIN, she was not supposed to be at the house when the accident happened, she is not a truthful person to begin with, this combined with known past behavior of not handeling things well, these things can happen.

I am just replying to let you know that I am enjoying your posts. You raise some very good points.

I found this:
FBI toxicologist, said the head of hair samples of Caylee Anthony not tested positive for Xanax, Valium, Rufi and six other drugs. The hair not tested for chloroform. The toxicologist recognized that the hair test is not the best way to see if someone was drugged.


don't know why they couldn't test the hair for chloroform

Chloroform doesn't deposit in the hair, if I recall correctly.

 

[StJohn]

I cant buy the chloroform theory just because if she wanted to put the child to sleep to party she could have done the easy thing and get nyquil, or something like that, feed her tylenol pm or melatonin. She was broke and I just dont think she got all Mr Wizard like. At least there were no drugs in the hair. Had there been that would be what the State would have argued.

Sad case.

This is another thing that bothered me about the state's theory. I googled "how to make chloroform", and I just can't see party girl Casey wearing a surgical mask and going step-by-step through the laborious process that was described in those directions. In addition, there was no evidence anywhere in the house that she had made it or even had the ingredients to make it. I think JB did a good job of neutralizing that theory when he showed the visits to myspace just before the search on chloroform in the search logs. Logical to deduce that Casey saw chloroform on her boyfriend's myspace page, then looked it up on the internet to find out more about it.

 

[goldenlover]

This is another thing that bothered me about the state's theory. I googled "how to make chloroform", and I just can't see party girl Casey wearing a surgical mask and going step-by-step through the laborious process that was described in those directions. In addition, there was no evidence anywhere in the house that she had made it or even had the ingredients to make it. I think JB did a good job of neutralizing that theory when he showed the visits to myspace just before the search on chloroform in the search logs. Logical to deduce that Casey saw chloroform on her boyfriend's myspace page, then looked it up on the internet to find out more about it.

Also look in the "urban dictionary" it is a word used quite often as slang in the younger generations along with "shovel" (which is a male form of "hoe") maybe KC heard some of the college guys using these words as slang and looked them up. otherwise why else look up the word "shovel" I am sure everyone pre-school age and older knows what a shovel is. I also agree that KC probably just looked up chloroform because of the cartoon on her boyfriends myspace page, which was right around the same time as the searches. It was that kind of evidence, IMO, that ruined the states case.